Pakku, the northern tribe waterbending master will face off against Unalaq before his fusion with vatuu after hearing his plans to merge the realms, fight takes place at the tree of time.
PAKKU
UNALAQ
Location:
Morals off, Pre-Fusion Unalaq.
Bonus round - Pakku gets Katara and Unalaq gets his family (Tonraq, Eska and Desna).
@aystarr: Yeah but Tonraq is useless and Katara is miles above the twins in bending ability. That said, I do believe Unalaq's feats performed during the battle with Korra - the times in which he did not use the Avatar State - are under his own base power. But I think you're obviously asking to restrict anything related to that sequence.
In terms of redirection Unalaq could redirect a water blast while turning it into an ice whip that's still flexible he's far more skilled than simply changing the direction of Katara's attack and freezing it
Not sure how blocking those small discs would be useful since Unalaq's attacks are larger, faster, more powerful and a more higher volume, and Pakku was slightly endangered there. Compare that to Unalaq keeping up with attacks from Mako and Bolin at the same time.
Again no different from Unalaq sliding down his frozen wave, and Unalaq literally pulverizing large earth pillars is far more impressive for the sheer force
Despite his few feats, Pakku has demonstrated way more versatility and skill than Unalaq.
None of these suggest Pakku can beat Unalaq and this isn't even pre fusion's full arsenal
Pakku has the experience, reputation, and statements to put him above Unalaq too.
Elaborate, I'm pretty sure Unalaq has him beat in reputation and statements too. Experience isn't relevant since even in his 20's he already invented a sub element of waterbending.
So Unalaq's reputation exceeds a White Lotus' Grandmaster's too now? And I'm supposed to believe smashing through Bolin's defences is impressive for a grandmaster? Bolin in B2 no less? And redirecting a blast and freezing it in the process is something we literally saw Katara do after training under Pakku for a week. Neither Unalaq nor Pakku have showcased too much on screen, but the few techniques Pakku has used ie. a massive tidal wave towering over Ba Sing Se's wall and immediate flash freeze, a water spout and his standing in universe are all enough to suggest he's better than Unalaq restricted to this collection of showings.
So Unalaq's reputation exceeds a White Lotus' Grandmaster's too now?
Well yes Unalaq is the Chief of the Water Tribe, a former Red Lotus member and has pretty good hype placing him above Pakku by a good margin even before fusion.
What even is Pakku's hype?
And I'm supposed to believe smashing through Bolin's defences is impressive for a grandmaster? Bolin in B2 no less?
It's more impressive than knocking Katara over, and Bolin's already pretty powerful at that point with no difference between there and B3.
And redirecting a blast and freezing it in the process is something we literally saw Katara do after training under Pakku for a week.
He froze it while maintaining the flexibility it had as water which is different, you only have to look at Hama vs Katara to know the difference in skill.
Neither Unalaq nor Pakku have showcased too much on screen, but the few techniques Pakku has used ie. a massive tidal wave towering over Ba Sing Se's wall and immediate flash freeze,
There was nothing massive about that wave, the wall was only a few times taller than Pakku.
a water spout
Full Moon and we know Unalaq could do one.
and his standing in universe are all enough to suggest he's better than Unalaq restricted to this collection of showings.
What standing? Do you have any other feats aside from the listed, because even pre-fusion Unalaq did virtually everything better than Pakku.
@tektonic: I'm not going to bother countering your arguments because you have consistently shown a clear bias towards LOK and a severe lowballing of TLA characters and feats.
@tektonic: I'm not going to bother countering your arguments because you have consistently shown a clear bias towards LOK and a severe lowballing of TLA characters and feats.
All I did was ask, "Hey can I see why you think this" and than showed Unalaq's feats comparatively. That isn't lowballing especially when both characters are powerful it isn't a reach.
Inversely I always back up everything I say in regards to LOK with evidence from the show, books, and interviews so if that's bias than I have no problem with the label.
I don't see you saying anything about clear TLA bias users spouting pure unsubstantiated nonsense but okay.
@tektonic: I'm not going to bother countering your arguments because you have consistently shown a clear bias towards LOK and a severe lowballing of TLA characters and feats.
All I did was ask, "Hey can I see why you think this" and than showed Unalaq's feats comparatively. That isn't lowballing especially when both characters are powerful it isn't a reach.
Inversely I always back up everything I say in regards to LOK with evidence from the show, books, and interviews so if that's bias than I have no problem with the label.
I don't see you saying anything about clear TLA bias users spouting pure unsubstantiated nonsense but okay.
Nah, that's BS. You have always backed up LOK characters over TLA characters, even when given tons of evidence/proof by multiple people. Not once have I seen you back a TLA character over a LOK character.
That is bias.
From all the Avatar-based threads I have seen over the years, no one backs LOK over TLA more than you have.
You have made outrageous claims and have been proven wrong many times, i.e. Korra being a better firebender than Azula.
Nah, that's BS. You have always backed up LOK characters over TLA characters, even when given tons of evidence/proof by multiple people. Not once have I seen you back a TLA character over a LOK character.
The floor is to you, if you want to re-litigate all my LOK discussions, be my guest, I'm confident in all of them, because it isn't about me or how I debate, the evidence speaks for itself - all I do is post it.
That is bias.
What you are doing right now is bias, instead of acting civilized you're snapping about me calmly debating a topic, when you haven't said anything to anyone on the opposing ends.
From all the Avatar-based threads I have seen over the years, no one backs LOK over TLA more than you have.
And? Of course I'll defend the most probable winner. As you've said I might do it the most but many others agree fairly often.
You have made outrageous claims and have been proven wrong many times,
Ok go compile the receipts than, pull up all these times I've been proven wrong.
i.e. Korra being a better firebender than Azula.
You're mixing me up with @unlimited1 if you still have issues with that CaV you had with him you should take it up with him.
You can go pull up what I have said about Azula and Korra in regards to firebending, it's perfectly reasonable because your assertion hinges on track record as opposed to mastery, and your rejection of the comparison is solely biased.
So Unalaq's reputation exceeds a White Lotus' Grandmaster's too now? And I'm supposed to believe smashing through Bolin's defences is impressive for a grandmaster? Bolin in B2 no less? And redirecting a blast and freezing it in the process is something we literally saw Katara do after training under Pakku for a week. Neither Unalaq nor Pakku have showcased too much on screen, but the few techniques Pakku has used ie. a massive tidal wave towering over Ba Sing Se's wall and immediate flash freeze, a water spout and his standing in universe are all enough to suggest he's better than Unalaq restricted to this collection of showings.
Again I do think some of Unalaq's better showings apply as non enhanced, but this thread is not taking this into account, therefore it's besides the point.
Unalaq wins solidly. His bending feats are better (smashing rock with both water and ice, redirecting a flexible ice whip, spiritbending in general) and his combat record is much better (casually smacking Mako with a water pouch, beating Tonraq, stomping Mako and Bolin). He was already an extremely powerful waterbender pre-fusion.
As for the bonus, I think it could go either way, with an edge to Korra's family (IMO, either Unalaq or Tonraq + E&D would beat Pakku handily, while Katara would beat Unalaq and seriously struggle with Tonraq + E & D). I have a higher opinion of both Tonraq and Eska and Desna than most people here though.
So Unalaq's reputation exceeds a White Lotus' Grandmaster's too now?
White Lotus Grandmaster is not an official title. Unalaq and Pakku were both the best waterbenders in the Northern Water Tribe in their respective times.
And I'm supposed to believe smashing through Bolin's defences is impressive for a grandmaster?
Smashing large quantities of rock is impressive no matter who does it. Pakku doesn't have notable destructive feats unamped.
Bolin in B2 no less?
Bolin is a solid earthbender even by B1 (look at him caving in tunnels or tearing up runways).
And redirecting a blast and freezing it in the process is something we literally saw Katara do after training under Pakku for a week.
Unalaq's blast retained its flexibility after turning to ice.
Neither Unalaq nor Pakku have showcased too much on screen,
Unalaq has showcased quite a bit, and unlike Pakku's he's had several serious fights with notable benders (Korra, Mako and Bolin, Tonraq), and done well in them.
but the few techniques Pakku has used ie. a massive tidal wave towering over Ba Sing Se's wall and immediate flash freeze,
The wave is large, but not colossal or anything (it's not comparable to Katara or Korra's best). It's also not a combat feat; if we're comparing out of combat feats, Unalaq has excellent showings as well:
Unalaq was able to precisely spiritbend four different spirits the size of small buildings at the same time, including one out of his line of sight. This is an excellent showing of both power and skill.
a water spout
Pakku required an amp do to that. Unalaq was also able to perform a (vastly superior) water spout when amped.
and his standing in universe
Pakku's standing in universe is no higher than Unalaq's.
are all enough to suggest he's better than Unalaq restricted to this collection of showings.
White Lotus Grandmaster is not an official title. Unalaq and Pakku were both the best waterbenders in the Northern Water Tribe in their respective times.
It's also a non-existent title, Iroh is the only one in the WL who is referred to as "Grand Lotus" as their leader. The rest aren't referred to in any type of way.
Unalaq was able to precisely spiritbend four different spirits the size of small buildings at the same time, including one out of his line of sight. This is an excellent showing of both power and skill.
This really is a great showing, the scale, range, complexity of the technique.
Even the duration since he maintained the technique to guide them all the way across the tundra back to the spirit forest. And that was in his early 20's.
Unalaq is truly an incredible waterbender, and Pakku really doesn't compare in any respect.
Even the duration since he maintained the technique to guide them all the way across the tundra back to the spirit forest. And that was in his early 20's.
I completely forgot about that part of the feat. Going to have to keep that in mind for the future.
He fought Sozin Comet enhanced firebenders look how powerful they were burning down forests and he was still fighting them he had minimum amount of water Unalaq was at the south Pole
He fought Sozin Comet enhanced firebenders look how powerful they were burning down forests and he was still fighting them he had minimum amount of water Unalaq was at the south Pole
He was left helpless by one singular blast from a Comet amped fodder firebender. He didn't beat a single one (he froze nonbenders exclusively).
Someone is a fan.
If I weren't I wouldn't be arguing on this site.
The full moon a small increase of power he still exploded water spout and threw ice daggers when in the air on water spout.
The full moon is a huge increase in power; for comparison, Full Moon Hama is strong enough to bloodbend, putting her above base Katara (who cannot bloodbend) in terms of raw power. This is despite the fact that base Katara can knock around warships while base Hama's best feat is cutting a rock IIRC. Thus, FM Hama > base Katara >>> regular Hama.
Slice steel tanks in half.
Under the full moon, which as noted above is a massive increase.
Bends tidal waves.
His best waves aren't that large. It's not like he can bend Katara or Korra level waves.
Unalaq had fought during full moon too just like Katara and Other waterbenders.
Really? When was this (this isn't a rhetorical question, I've always assumed Unalaq's fights were unamped prior to fusion with Vaatu in the past and if some of his better feats are amped I need to reconsider his ranking)?
Avatar creators said greatest waterbender in the world
In S1 of AtLA that was probably true (his only real competition being Huu in the swamp). By EOS Katara is way ahead of him on feats.
He fought Sozin Comet enhanced firebenders look how powerful they were burning down forests and he was still fighting them he had minimum amount of water Unalaq was at the south Pole
He was left helpless by one singular blast from a Comet amped fodder firebender. He didn't beat a single one (he froze nonbenders exclusively).
Someone is a fan.
If I weren't I wouldn't be arguing on this site.
The full moon a small increase of power he still exploded water spout and threw ice daggers when in the air on water spout.
The full moon is a huge increase in power; for comparison, Full Moon Hama is strong enough to bloodbend, putting her above base Katara (who cannot bloodbend) in terms of raw power. This is despite the fact that base Katara can knock around warships while base Hama's best feat is cutting a rock IIRC. Thus, FM Hama > base Katara >>> regular Hama.
Slice steel tanks in half.
Under the full moon, which as noted above is a massive increase.
Bends tidal waves.
His best waves aren't that large. It's not like he can bend Katara or Korra level waves.
Unalaq had fought during full moon too just like Katara and Other waterbenders.
Really? When was this (this isn't a rhetorical question, I've always assumed Unalaq's fights were unamped prior to fusion with Vaatu in the past and if some of his better feats are amped I need to reconsider his ranking)?
Avatar creators said greatest waterbender in the world
In S1 of AtLA that was probably true (his only real competition being Huu in the swamp). By EOS Katara is way ahead of him on feats.
@tektonic: your a Unalaq fanboy who hates master pakku he got a power Amp when merged with vaatu this is prevaatu Unalaq Not Unalaq who did water spout
We all know he got a power up when he merged with vaatu the water spout and him freezing katara in the ground
Prevaatu Unalaq who fought Mako and Bolin and fought Tonraq
@tektonic: katara outsmarted azula she didn't beat her with raw power
You saw how large that sozin comet blast it admit it you don't like Master pakku and you are bias
Katara fought during full moon do we include her feats and the full moon gives them a boost not 10 times a boost you don't think merging with vaatu the strongest spirit on a harmonic convergence is a boost you wrong
@tektonic: your a Unalaq fanboy who hates master pakku
Could reverse this and say the same to you, but that would be pointless.
he got a power Amp when merged with vaatu this is prevaatu Unalaq Not Unalaq who did water spout
We all know he got a power up when he merged with vaatu the water spout and him freezing katara in the ground
We all make a clear distinction between pre and post fusion Unalaq. Just like we do for full moon Pakku. Vaatu didn't teach Unalaq how to do a waterspout, especially since he scales above S1 and S2 Korra(not as much in the finale) who could do it effortlessly.
Prevaatu Unalaq who fought Mako and Bolin and fought Tonraq
@tektonic: katara outsmarted azula she didn't beat her with raw power
She still blocked a lightning bolt>>>>>random fireblast.
You saw how large that sozin comet blast it admit it you don't like Master pakku and you are bias
Sure it was large, but everyone on SC had to deal with large fireblasts. Aang and Katara both sued their waterbending with more success.
Katara fought during full moon do we include her feats and the full moon gives them a boost not 10 times a boost you don't think merging with vaatu the strongest spirit on a harmonic convergence is a boost you wrong
Well we aren't including Pakku's full moon feats, and both versions of Unalaq would suffice against Pakku. You do know Pakku could still be considered powerful waterbender, and often is, even without being considered above Unalaq.
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