Otaku Server PYP Round One: Shirso vs Emperorthanos-

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defiant_will

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#1  Edited By defiant_will

@shirso

Characters:

  • Law (5)
  • Shikamaru (1)

Perks:

  • Speed Equalized

@emperorthanos-

Characters:

  • Edo Madara (7)

Perks:

  • Extra Character Point
  • TP/TK Immunity

RULES

  • Manga and Anime Feats Allowed
  • Fight to K.O. or Death
  • In Character, but Serious
  • Energies are not Equalized
  • Fighters Start 20 Feet Apart
  • Fight Takes Place on Indestructible Island
  • No BFR.
  • No time manipulation.
  • No reality warping.
  • Cloning is limited to 10
  • Standard Gear.
  • Team Work is none a factor, but your team will not have perfect Team Work if they never worked together either.
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shirso

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Chronicplane

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TAEP, I'm interested to see how Law does against Madara lol.

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emperorthanos-

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#4 emperorthanos-  Moderator

@defiant_will I still have 1 perks point. I believe I asked for TP/Tk immunity.

Unless I'm allowed to pick something else

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Thenewguysnm1

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#5  Edited By Thenewguysnm1

Damm. ET is screwed with speed equalised

Body swap/Counter shock GG

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defiant_will

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shirso

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@emperorthanos-:

Law's first move in a fight is Room+Shambles, which would spatially disassemble you straight away.

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Note that there's no actual damage dealt to his victims, their different halves are just separated in space. So I doubt any regen abilities you have would be useful against this ability.

His AoE is pretty large, like at least mountain lvl as well.

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Law can go for an easy incap just by doing what he did to Vergo, that is separating Madara up into dozens of tiny pieces and sticking them on random objects.

If that doesn't work for some reason, he always has other means,

Telekinetically blasting Madara's heart out for one:

And my personal favorite, he can simply soul swap Madara with Shikamaru.

Then Law and Shikamaru in Madara's body stomp the crap out of Madara in Shika's weak body.

Speed is equalized and Madara has no defense against Law's hax so that's gg I believe.

Shikamaru can also hinder Madara long enough with his Shadow posession Jutsu to make the fight even easier.

Adult Shikamaru has restrained Otsutsukis with his technique.

Conclusion

  • Madara has no defense against Law's spatial slices.
  • No defense against telekinetic heart removal.
  • No defense against soul swap.
  • Shikamaru can hinder him at the beginning with shadow possession, making it even easier for Law.
  • Speed equalized means Madara isgetting tagged and I have proven Law one shots him.

That's it. Ball's in your court mate:)

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emperorthanos-

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#8  Edited By emperorthanos-  Moderator

@shirso:

So first thing I'd like to bring up is that even speed equalized Madara, still has an advantage due to Precog thanks to his eyes. To show how good his pre cogo is I will bring up Kid Sasuke using precog against Naruto during their final battle in part 1 of Naruto. Using the Sharingan, Sasuke is able to react to and avoid Naruto's attack which he was too slow to deal with it. He can see his attack before he makes them. Note that this the standard Sharingan while Madara has the mangekyo sharingan.

So already Madara has an advantage has he will see Law moving before he actually does. This is important in a battle where every aspect of speed has been equalized.

And speaking of speed equalized, this match essentially comes down who is able to attack with the least movement. Law's first attack does require a decent amount of steps. Law has to first create his room and then after that he use shambles. That's atleast two steps that require movement and even then that doesn't actually kill Madara. It seperates him from his body but Madara will be alive.

All Madara has to do is take down Law before he really gets the chance to do anything. And that's simple for Madara because all he needs to do is look at Law. And thats essentially the plan, Madara looks at in you general direction(which he likely will already be doing at the start of the fight) and use Limbo on both your characters. Limbo is very in character of alive Madara, being one of the first abilities he used and something he used repeatedly against Naruto and Sasuke later on. The example of him using this comes from when he fought the 9 tailed beasts, using to knock them all down with a single blow.

Now this is definetly taking down Shikamaru. He may have gotten stronger over the years but he physically he is not on the level of Bijuu at all and Madara casually knock them down and was able to take them. Now what matters is whether this can take down Law. You haven't really shown any durability feats for Law but I will give you an idea of just how strong the strike is. First of all it's important to note the sheer size of the Bijuu. Here is 8 tails dwarfing a forest.

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Both 9 and 8 tails have some pretty solid feats. First of all in weaker forms they were able to to tank a direct hit from Nagato's all mighty push. This attack was able to send three hill sized Toads flying back when he was Pain, however here Bee seems to be able to get up quickly from being hit by the strike.

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And later in their full Bijuu forms they both tanked a hit from the Ten Tails, a mount size monster that dwarfed both beasts. it knocked him in a fast paced strike but again they didn't seem affected and were able to charge up attacks immediately after.

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While the others don't have as many feats. Bee did have to use a massive attack forest razing attack just to knockout the Jinjurichis before they had gone into their full Bijuu form where they have significantly better durability. Yet Madara was still able to bring them all down.

Now that's basically it. Shikamaru dies or at the very least is KOed. He is canonically weaker than the characters Madara took down and has not feats near their level. I can't recall Law having anything on this level either. But should he get up. Madara can always knock him back down. Because again he just needs to look at him. Or alternatively should he get up, it's genjutusu GG since Law has no resistance to it and Shika is too dead to help.

Overall

Speed equalized means Madara gets the first attack since he has to just to look are your team while Law has to create a room and then slash and then switch bodies. While Shikamaru has to perform a hand sign to restrain which even then doesn't stop Madara from looking at him. You can't argue Law can do his thing before since their speeds are exactly the same. Dodging is also not an option since the Limbo clones are as fast as you, are invisible to you and you have no knowledge on them.

Shikamaru gets onshotted, Law probably does to unless he can get up from the attack, create the room, and slash Madara all before Madara stares at him and Genjutusu's him.

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emperorthanos-

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#9 emperorthanos-  Moderator
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shirso

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Nice post

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shirso

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@emperorthanos-:

So first thing I'd like to bring up is that even speed equalized Madara, still has an advantage due to Precog thanks to his eyes. To show how good his pre cogo is I will bring up Kid Sasuke using precog against Naruto during their final battle in part 1 of Naruto. Using the Sharingan, Sasuke is able to react to and avoid Naruto's attack which he was too slow to deal with it. He can see his attack before he makes them. Note that this the standard Sharingan while Madara has the mangekyo sharingan.

Well, did you forget that Law has precognition as well due to Observation Haki?

As Rayleigh explains, CoO, among other things, gives the user the ability to see what their opponent will do in the next moment, as has been demonstrated many times by many characters throughout the series.

And from what I see, the Sharingan is essentially move reading, which is useful against cqc fighters maybe, but not hax characters like Law. I mean what use would it be to Madara to see Law swinging his sword a second earlier, unless he can predict the hax nature of Law's powers? In fact it will likely hurt Madara more than Law, as Madara will precognitively see Law swinging a sword and take him for a conventional swordsman.

CoO is better in that respect as it seems to unconsciously make the user dodge attacks of any nature, and not just limited to cqc, as we see Sanji dodge Katakuri's jellybeans without even looking.

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And CoO seems to actually give a brief glimpse of the future, as we see even a novice Luffy at MF realize Mihawk's about to cut his arms off. This is better than simple move reading.

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So already Madara has an advantage has he will see Law moving before he actually does. This is important in a battle where every aspect of speed has been equalized.

As I said, move reading precog actually hurts Madara here against a hax fighter like Law. With the Sharingan, he will essentially try to fight Law like a conventional swordsman and get stomped.

And Law's CoO trumps Sharingan in terms of precog anyway.

And speaking of speed equalized, this match essentially comes down who is able to attack with the least movement. Law's first attack does require a decent amount of steps. Law has to first create his room and then after that he use shambles. That's atleast two steps that require movement and even then that doesn't actually kill Madara. It seperates him from his body but Madara will be alive.

Ok. But let's be clear about what Law exactly needs to do. He can set up Room essentially with a finger movement and then swing his sword to use Shambles.

All Madara has to do is take down Law before he really gets the chance to do anything. And that's simple for Madara because all he needs to do is look at Law. And thats essentially the plan, Madara looks at in you general direction(which he likely will already be doing at the start of the fight) and use Limbo on both your characters.

Law can very well set up Room at least before he gets hit by Limbo at least. Activating Room requires a simple finger gesture from Law. Madara can activate Limbo by looking, yes, but there is a lag between that and Law getting hit, since the Limbo ghosts still have to travel 20 metres (that's standard Forum rules starting distance I think?) before tagging Law.

Since according to Gear, every aspect of speed, which includes combat, reactions, travel and even attack/projectile speed is equalized to some fixed value, Law just needs to set up Room (movement of a few inches?) and swing his sword (1 metre?) to disassemble Madara before the Limbo ghosts reach him.

That means Law is making a net movement of a few metres at best, in the time it takes for the Limbo ghosts to travel 20 metres. So yeah, he will disassemble Madara before getting tagged. Unlike Limbo, Law's spatial slices don't seem to have a lag because it's not a conventional slice. Everything in his Room gets instantly disassembled when he uses Shambles.

Limbo is very in character of alive Madara, being one of the first abilities he used and something he used repeatedly against Naruto and Sasuke later on. The example of him using this comes from when he fought the 9 tailed beasts, using to knock them all down with a single blow.

I can see why he would use an attack like this to knock some giant beasts which he has knowledge on down, but why start with this in a random encounter against someone who is seemingly a vanilla swordsman at first sight? Won't it make more sense for Madara to try and demolish Law in Taijutsu first rather than use some high level ninjutsu which uses up a lot of chakra?

Apart from that, Madara if I am not wrong also has a dictionary's worth of versatility and techniques, many of which he has used waaay more often than Limbo, Susanoo for instance. Why start with Limbo then against an opponent he knows nothing about and who doesn't seem anything special compared to some fodder shinobi at first glance?

Using Limbo right away is a strategy which makes sense if Madara knows of Law's powers and the speed equalized thing, but unfortunately he doesn't. Only you and I do.

Now this is definetly taking down Shikamaru. He may have gotten stronger over the years but he physically he is not on the level of Bijuu at all and Madara casually knock them down and was able to take them.

I don't know when and where this is taking place, but I guess on some sunny day in a semi-open area, to be fair to Shikamaru, in which case his shadow is likely already on Madara, and all he needs to do is do the hand sign. And since Shika knows how strong Madara is, he will likely go for a more dangerous technique, like Shadow stitching, rather than just possession.

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This will further hinder your already incredibly optimistic strategy.

Now what matters is whether this can take down Law. You haven't really shown any durability feats for Law

Put simply, it won't. Limbo seems to scale from knocking down some hill sized beasts who themselves took some pushes earlier and weren't knocked down, but manhandling large beasts is something that OP characters have been doing since Chapter 1.

Law was able to take a brutal beating from Vergo without being KO'd, all while Vergo was squeezing his heart !

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Taking a beating from Vergo is already impressive enough as he scales to Sanji, who was kicking around hill sized creatures even during Alabasta.

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I would like to note that he sent that creature flying upwards, against gravity, which would obviously be more impressive than knocking them down, because Sanji was working against gravity.

Later on in Thriller Bark, Sanji also matched and deflected Oars' Bazooka mid air, and not even using Diable Jambe (which drastically amps his striking).

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Vergo was matching post skip Sanji in a kicking contest ,

And Law took a beating from the same guy while his heart was being simultaneously squeezed !

That feat alone is enough but since the OP very kindly allows anime feats, Law has also matched post skip Luffy in a fist fight, without using his sword or DF.

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It was a filler arc where the villain used his DF to control Luffy, so no holding back either.

Post skip Luffy scales massively above pre skip Sanji who already performed feats comparable to Limbo, and Law matched him fist for fist.

Yeah, I can see Law pretty much no selling the attack tbh.

Now that's basically it. Shikamaru dies or at the very least is KOed. He is canonically weaker than the characters Madara took down and has not feats near their level.

Shikamaru is likely KO'd if he takes the attack head on, but even assuming Madara will start with it, Shika can activate his shadow stitching before he gets tagged, which would buy time for Law. And Shika is useful for something else as well which I will be coming to in a moment.

I can't recall Law having anything on this level either. But should he get up. Madara can always knock him back down. Because again he just needs to look at him.

Law probably no sells the attack and speed equalized means he can get off Room+Shambles before the ghosts reach him over 20 metres.

Law also has CoO precog so instead of swinging his sword, he can use Shambles to switch places with Madara to gauge the situation and avoid getting tagged by the attack, like he did in combat, switching himself with Doflamingo.

This switching technique is quite common with Law to escape a sticky situation and he just needs a hand gesture to do it, so he is certainly getting it off before getting tagged due to the perk.

And even if he is knocked down, he won't be remotely KO'd

Or alternatively should he get up, it's genjutusu GG since Law has no resistance to it and Shika is too dead to help.

Madara has used Genjutsu even less than Limbo, your entire strategy hinges on Madara using 2 very specific and relatively less frequent techniques when he has a vast arsenal + Taijutsu which he is more likely to resort to. You keep forgetting that Madara isn't aware of Law's power nor of the speed equalized perk.

And should Law get knocked down, he has his own one shot technique, soul swap, to make short work of Madara.

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This again requires a mere finger gesture and Law will most likely resort to it to end the fight quickly if he sees his opponent can knock him down with a mere stare. Law isn't the one to play around in these situations.

And thankfully, he will have Shikamaru just for this.

Summary Counters

Speed equalized means Madara gets the first attack since he has to just to look are your team while Law has to create a room and then slash and then switch bodies.

The ghosts need to travel to him over 20 metres, while Law needs a finger gesture and a sword swing. With speed equalized, Law is performing much less movement, and hence Madara is getting disassembled first before Law gets hit with the ghosts.

While Shikamaru has to perform a hand sign to restrain which even then doesn't stop Madara from looking at him.

Same argument as Law. And he can use Shadow stitch to both suffocate and damage Madara thus buying even more time for Law.

You can't argue Law can do his thing before since their speeds are exactly the same.

Discussed.

Dodging is also not an option since the Limbo clones are as fast as you, are invisible to you and you have no knowledge on them.

Any reason why he can't detect them with CoO? Even if he can't, CoO would give him a premonition of the danger, whence he switches himself with Madara to avoid the attack.

Conclusion

  • Sharingan precog actually hurts Madara, because he will think of and try to fight Law like a conventional swordsman.
  • Limbo ghosts need to travel 20 metres to tag Law. Law can get off Room and Shambles before that.
  • Both Limbo and Genjutsu are incredibly rare for Madara, Genjutsu even more so, and it all hinges on the assumption that Madara knows of Law's abilities and that speed is equalized, which he doesn't. He wouldn't start with such high level techniques against a seemingly fodder swordsman. He likely tries cqc or some other more conventional ninjutsu and gets promptly one shotted.
  • Law's CoO will also warn him of getting tagged by Limbo, whence he can switch himself with Madara, avoiding the attack.
  • Shika is a little out of his league but if he shadow stitches at the onset, it would definitely buy Law some time.
  • Even getting tagged by Limbo wouldn't do much to Law, if at all, and if so, he will resort to soul swap with Shikamaru and one shot Madara.

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shirso

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