Orion vs Captain Marvel

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King Saturn

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#1  Edited By King Saturn
Can Captain Marvel aka Billy Baston defeat Orion in an all out battle in Downtown Chicago ?

Orion
Orion






































vs

Captain Marvel
Captain Marvel






























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never give up

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#2  Edited By never give up

Captain Marvel for the win...

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#3  Edited By King Saturn
Hmmm...I am still thinking on this one...
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Ball Buster

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#4  Edited By Ball Buster

Orion ftw..

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never give up

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#5  Edited By never give up

Captain Marvel wins this...

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the human Juggernaut

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the captain wins

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HalJordan1986x

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#7  Edited By HalJordan1986x

Orion
Equal strenght and durability
But a better warrior and fighter

Good fight though

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never give up

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#8  Edited By never give up
HalJordan1986x said:
"Orion
Equal strenght and durability
But a better warrior and fighter

Good fight though"
Come to the inbetweener vs darkseid thread.
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Ball Buster

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#9  Edited By Ball Buster
never give up said:
"HalJordan1986x said:
"Orion
Equal strenght and durability
But a better warrior and fighter

Good fight though"
Come to the inbetweener vs darkseid thread."
Ha Ha.Calling in backups.What a whimp.
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never give up

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#10  Edited By never give up
Ball Buster said:
"never give up said:
"HalJordan1986x said:
"Orion
Equal strenght and durability
But a better warrior and fighter

Good fight though"
Come to the inbetweener vs darkseid thread."
Ha Ha.Calling in backups.What a whimp."
No just wanted him to see how much of a fanboy you are...
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Ball Buster

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#11  Edited By Ball Buster
never give up said:
"Ball Buster said:
"never give up said:
"HalJordan1986x said:
"Orion
Equal strenght and durability
But a better warrior and fighter

Good fight though"
Come to the inbetweener vs darkseid thread."
Ha Ha.Calling in backups.What a whimp."
No just wanted him to see how much of a fanboy you are..."
Ill never be a DC Hotdog muncher like you..
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never give up

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#12  Edited By never give up
Ball Buster said:
"never give up said:
"Ball Buster said:
"never give up said:
"HalJordan1986x said:
"Orion
Equal strenght and durability
But a better warrior and fighter

Good fight though"
Come to the inbetweener vs darkseid thread."
Ha Ha.Calling in backups.What a whimp."
No just wanted him to see how much of a fanboy you are..."
Ill never be a DC Hotdog muncher like you.."
................
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castleking

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#13  Edited By castleking

the war has spilled over to this thread ...........................oh cap wins super speed coupled with strengths takes care of him hasnt supes beaten orion?

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Ball Buster

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#14  Edited By Ball Buster
castleking said:
"the war has spilled over to this thread ...........................oh cap wins super speed coupled with strengths takes care of him hasnt supes beaten orion?"
Sorry Im stopping here.
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Ares105

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#15  Edited By Ares105

Captain Marvel's got this one

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Ball Buster

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#16  Edited By Ball Buster

Has Orion beat superman before?

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King Saturn

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#17  Edited By King Saturn
Ball Buster said:
"Has Orion beat superman before?"
Yes He Has...
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Valtot

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#18  Edited By Valtot

when did he beat superman in normal version ive got him stalemating him and getting squished by doomsday like nothing but beating him?. Though orion wins better warrior, physical attributes, astro force, no magic weakness
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#19  Edited By PirateKing69

I'm leaning towards Orion

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The_Dog_of_War

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#20  Edited By The_Dog_of_War

Orion would win in an all out fight due to the Astro Force, but in a H2H only fight it could go either way, or it would just be a perpetual stalemate.

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CM in a close one

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#22  Edited By Thoromdil

Very close. Honestly could go either way. Orion has advantage in technology and hax because of his Chair, motherbox and astro force. Captain Marvel has advantage in energy projection and speed, because of lightning of Zeus and Speed that rivals the Flash. Depending on how they use these advantages each can win. In other abilities and traits I see them as equals.

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Orion.

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#24  Edited By MasterSkywalker

Orion kicks his ass.

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Orion

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Orion.

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The_Dog_of_War

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Orion kicks his ass.

Orion would win after a good fight due to the Astro Force, but I've seen nothing from Orion that indicates he would "kick his ass".

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MasterSkywalker

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#28  Edited By MasterSkywalker

@nick1994 said:
@thordinson said:

Orion kicks his ass.

Orion would win after a good fight due to the Astro Force, but I've seen nothing from Orion that indicates he would "kick his ass".

His striking power is superior, his durability, hes a better fighter, has better perception and his Astro-Force has ko'd Clark before and knocked him halfway across the planet when he was bloodlusted. Not to mention when he was enraged enough he vaporized Mantis. He hands Billy his ass, although Captain Marvel does put up a "good fight".

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The_Dog_of_War

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His striking power is superior,

How so? Captain Marvel has damaged/bloodied Superman on two different occasions, so I consider Cap and Orion equals in that category.

hes a better fighter,

Debatable, since Captain Marvel has gone toe-to-toe with Superman and WW without getting out skilled.

his Astro-Force has ko'd Clark before

A younger and weaker version of Clark.

and knocked him halfway across the planet when he was bloodlusted.

So what? That blast did no damage to Superman.

Not to mention when he was enraged enough he vaporized Mantis.

Impressive feat, but Orion isn't vaporizing Captain Marvel, since Captain Marvel has withstood energy attacks that were just as powerful, if not more

He hands Billy his ass, although Captain Marvel does put up a "good fight".

And I remain unconvinced that Orion hands Billy his ass.

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#30  Edited By MasterSkywalker

@nick1994:

How so? Captain Marvel has damaged/bloodied Superman on two different occasions, so I consider Cap and Orion equals in that category.

Sucker punching somebody whos weak to magic and restraining an Eclipso Clark which had heavy context to it is not equal striking power. Unless you think cheap shots puts someone on a similar category. Orion has physically matched Darkseid in strict h2h and won.

Debatable, since Captain Marvel has gone toe-to-toe with Superman and WW without getting out skilled.

I don't consider Clark or WW to be pillars of massive fighting skill, but Billy isn't known for any h2h capabilities whatsoever.

Until Billy fights like this.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Or utilizes agility like this.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Or has perception like this enough to catch Clark and Flash in a race, then Billy isn't on his level.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

A younger and weaker version of Clark.

Where was it said he was weaker? Orion had to bring him in and the only thing Clark lacked was inexperienced and unfamiliarity with the Astro-Force.

So what? That blast did no damage to Superman.

It knocked him halfway across the planet while he was under mind-control before the JLA had to step in and put him back in his place. Thats more that can be said for Billy.

Impressive feat, but Orion isn't vaporizing Captain Marvel, since Captain Marvel has withstood energy attacks that were just as powerful, if not more

Never said he would outright vaporize Billy, but his raw energy projection is strong and he can absorb or redirect it as well. Billy isn't going to tank repeated Astro-Force blasts.

And I remain unconvinced that Orion hands Billy his ass.

Oh well, you can believe what you wanna believe lol.

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The_Dog_of_War

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#31  Edited By The_Dog_of_War

@thordinson said:

Sucker punching somebody whos weak to magic and restraining an Eclipso Clark which had heavy context to it is not equal striking power. Unless you think cheap shots puts someone on a similar category. Orion has physically matched Darkseid in strict h2h and won.

I'm not referring to the sucker punches.

Captain Marvel damaged/bloodied Superman in Superman/Batman #4 (with two punches), and Superman #216 (a headbutt).

The sucker punches you're referring to happened in JLA #29.

And what does Captain Marvel restraining Eclipso-Superman have to do with striking power?

But since you brought it up, what heavy context are you referring to?

The magic lightning?

Captain Marvel's magic has never been shown to weaken Superman like Kryptonite does, nor was it stated or implied that Eclipso-Superman was weakened by it, and Eclipso even headbutted CM and he still couldn't break free.

I don't consider Clark or WW to be pillars of massive fighting skill, but Billy isn't known for any h2h capabilities whatsoever.

And yet Orion was unable to out skill Superman in Death of the New Gods #2.

Where was it said he was weaker? Orion had to bring him in and the only thing Clark lacked was inexperienced and unfamiliarity with the Astro-Force.

Superman was at a much younger age in Superman: Confidential, and thus weaker.

Superman has also had upgrades after the events of Superman: Confidential.

It knocked him halfway across the planet while he was under mind-control before the JLA had to step in and put him back in his place. Thats more that can be said for Billy.

And again, that blast did no damage to Superman, he wasn't incapacitated or knocked out by it. Superman shrugged it off.

Never said he would outright vaporize Billy, but his raw energy projection is strong and he can absorb or redirect it as well. Billy isn't going to tank repeated Astro-Force blasts.

I agree with this, and I already said Orion would win due to the Astro Force, but CM doesn't get his ass handed to him like you keep saying.

CM would give Orion a good fight.

Oh well, can't help the delusional after all.

Now you're insulting me?

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@nick1994:

I'm not referring to the sucker punches.

Captain Marvel damaged/bloodied Superman in Superman/Batman #4 (with two punches), and Superman #216 (a headbutt).

The sucker punches you're referring to happened in JLA #29.

And what does Captain Marvel restraining Eclipso-Superman have to do with striking power?

But since you brought it up, what heavy context are you referring to?

The magic lightning?

Captain Marvel's magic has never been shown to weaken Superman like Kryptonite does, nor was it stated or implied that Eclipso-Superman was weakened by it, and Eclipso even headbutted CM and he still couldn't break free.

I don't consider bloodying or damaging Clark in inconclusive fights that impressive to be quite fair.

And yet Orion was unable to out skill Superman in Death of the New Gods #2.

DONG isn't canon since it contradicts events in Final Crisis and Countdown which are canon.

Superman was at a much younger age in Superman: Confidential, and thus weaker.

Superman has also had upgrades after the events of Superman: Confidential.

And again, that blast did no damage to Superman, he wasn't incapacitated or knocked out by it. Superman shrugged it off.

Where has it been said that being younger equals him being weaker. The gap between young Clark and standard Pre-Flashpoint Clark isn't so astronomically high, and Orion was able to utilizie his energy to just knock him out, but not kill him. And as shown before when he blasted and injured him across the planet.

I agree with this, and I already said Orion would win due to the Astro Force, but CM doesn't get his ass handed to him like you keep saying.

CM would give Orion a good fight.

So, despite the fact Orion outskills Billy, has used that skill to fight opponents amped to his level by Desaad you still think Billy could handle him in a slugfest? I don't think Orion stomps him, but he has every advantage over him.

Now you're insulting me?

Being delusional isn't an insult.

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#33  Edited By The_Dog_of_War

@thordinson said:

I don't consider bloodying or damaging Clark in inconclusive fights that impressive to be quite fair.

Your opinions are your own, but you made the claim that Orion has better striking feats, and I don't recall any feats that prove that.

DONG isn't canon since it contradicts events in Final Crisis and Countdown which are canon.

Was it stated by an official source that DotNG was rendered non-canon, or are you just speculating?

So, despite the fact Orion outskills Billy, has used that skill to fight opponents amped to his level by Desaad you still think Billy could handle him in a slugfest? I don't think Orion stomps him, but he has every advantage over him.

Billy has consistently gone toe-to-toe with characters like Superman and Black Adam without getting overpowered, so yes I think Billy can match Orion in a slugfest.

Being delusional isn't an insult.

Thanks for the confirmation, if you don't want to be civil, and have a mature debate then so be it.

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@nick1994:

Your opinions are your own, but you made the claim that Orion has better striking feats, and I don't recall any feats that prove that.

I've proved that claim, but you've yet to prove Billy is a better fighter or has better perception than Orion does or can tank repeated Astro-Force blasts.

Was it stated by an official source that DotNG was rendered non-canon, or are you just speculating?

No, DONG isn't canon because the events contradict Countdown and Final Crisis. In DONG, Darkseid defeats The Source and meets his demise at the end of the story along with the other New Gods who slowly fade away. In Countdown, Orion kills Darkseid and fulfills the prophecy of carving a firepit from his heart. Darkseid later comes back as Boss Darkseid, but then kills Orion by shooting a Radion Bullet that travels through time and kills him along with the other Apokoliptan's souls being on Earth at the time. Theres also the premise of FC, which differs from DONG which states that evil triumphed over good, and that Darkseid finally overcame New Genesis, destroying it in the process, which contradicts DONG where hes beaten.

Billy has consistently gone toe-to-toe with characters like Superman and Black Adam without getting overpowered, so yes I think Billy can match Orion in a slugfest.

Like I said, sucker punching and bloodying foes isn't enough to say they have the skill and striking power to match Orion who is demonstrably more skilled. And Adam has had problems with Clark too.

Thanks for the confirmation, if you don't want to be civil, and have a mature debate then so be it.

But I'm being civil here mate. Just relax and take a breather.

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Orion.

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The_Dog_of_War

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#36  Edited By The_Dog_of_War

@thordinson said:

I've proved that claim, but you've yet to prove Billy is a better fighter or has better perception than Orion does or can tank repeated Astro-Force blasts.

Overpowering Darkseid is impressive, but Orion couldn't overpower Superman.

And Superman and Captain Marvel have matched each other in fights.

But as I already said I consider Orion, and CM equals in that category.

And I already agreed with you that Captain Marvel would go down after numerous Astro Force blasts.

No, DONG isn't canon because the events contradict Countdown and Final Crisis. In DONG, Darkseid defeats The Source and meets his demise at the end of the story along with the other New Gods who slowly fade away. In Countdown, Orion kills Darkseid and fulfills the prophecy of carving a firepit from his heart. Darkseid later comes back as Boss Darkseid, but then kills Orion by shooting a Radion Bullet that travels through time and kills him along with the other Apokoliptan's souls being on Earth at the time. Theres also the premise of FC, which differs from DONG which states that evil triumphed over good, and that Darkseid finally overcame New Genesis, destroying it in the process, which contradicts DONG where hes beaten.

Again, do you have an official source/statement that proves DotNG is non-canon, because there have been events in comics that have contradicted each other, but they're not rendered non-canon.

Because as of right now you're just speculating.

Post an official source from someone at DC, then I'll believe you.

Like I said, sucker punching and bloodying foes isn't enough to say they have the skill and striking power to match Orion who is demonstrably more skilled. And Adam has had problems with Clark too.

I'm not talking about the sucker punches.

Captain Marvel has gone toe-to-toe with Superman without getting overpowered/defeated in numerous fights.

Superman #102

The Power of SHAZAM #46

Superman/Batman #4

Superman #216

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@nick1994:

Overpowering Darkseid is impressive, but Orion couldn't overpower Superman.

And Superman and Captain Marvel have matched each other in fights.

But as I already said I consider Orion, and CM equals in that category.

And I already agreed with you that Captain Marvel would go down after numerous Astro Force blasts.

  • Because Superman was being mind controlled and had just sundipped boosting his strength, and despite that Orion was able to blast him all the way to India, something I would seriously doubt Billy would be capable of, given his best methods of knocking out Clark are from sucker punches.
  • I distinctly remember Clark having the upperhand on him in Power of Shazam, when Billy was insecure about how he felt to Clark, even losing an arm wrestle to him. Regardless of which, Billy has been able to hurt him from his magic and you haven't give any feats on why hes equal or better than Superman
  • You can say it all you like, doesn't make it any less wrong.
  • Not just those, he would get taken down by his fighting prowess and a combination of the Astro-Force

Again, do you have an official source/statement that proves DotNG is non-canon, because there have been events in comics that have contradicted each other, but they're not rendered non-canon.

Because as of right now you're just speculating.

Post an official source from someone at DC, then I'll believe you.

Name some events that contradict each other. And you don't have to believe it, since much of DONG's story by Starlin and Grant Morrison's FC are extremely different and end on different notes like I just explained earlier.

I'm not talking about the sucker punches.

Captain Marvel has gone toe-to-toe with Superman without getting overpowered/defeated in numerous fights.

Superman #102

The Power of SHAZAM #46

Superman/Batman #4

Superman #216

I've seen this debnuked on a separate thread by someone else, so simply repeating it and not showing any feats or competent arguments is just a waste at this point. Orion still beats Billy regardless of your red herrings.

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All out goes to Orion most likely. He's got more reliable ranged options, is more vicious, and has a sick healing factor.

Hand to hand would be extremely close though.

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The_Dog_of_War

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#39  Edited By The_Dog_of_War

@thordinson said:
  • Because Superman was being mind controlled and had just sundipped boosting his strength, and despite that Orion was able to blast him all the way to India, something I would seriously doubt Billy would be capable of, given his best methods of knocking out Clark are from sucker punches.

The fact that Superman was sundipped is impressive, but Orion didn't beat him, and he had help throughout parts of the fight (Big Barda, and the JL).

Captain Marvel was able to smack around Dreadnaught, who at the time had the powers of Superman, Martian Manhunter, and Aquaman, but I'm not going to argue that Orion couldn't do that.

  • I distinctly remember Clark having the upperhand on him in Power of Shazam, when Billy was insecure about how he felt to Clark, even losing an arm wrestle to him. Regardless of which, Billy has been able to hurt him from his magic and you haven't give any feats on why hes equal or better than Superman

Captain Marvel lost the arm wrestling match, because CM Jr. and Mary Marvel transformed, and thus Captain Marvel was only at 1/3 of his power when he lost.

Name some events that contradict each other. And you don't have to believe it, since much of DONG's story by Starlin and Grant Morrison's FC are extremely different and end on different notes like I just explained earlier.

I've been doing some digging and I think you might be right.

I've found an interview with Grant Morrison who essentially said that DotNG was apocryphal.

I've seen this debnuked on a separate thread by someone else, so simply repeating it and not showing any feats or competent arguments is just a waste at this point. Orion still beats Billy regardless of your red herrings.

And I've seen someone in an other thread who believed Captain Marvel and Superman are physical equals due to those fights, so I don't see the point in trying to bring other people's opinions in to this.

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TifaLockhart

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@nick1994: Props for actually providing context to the arm wrestling scans. It's refreshing that someone reads comics. I'm not being sarcastic either.

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TheDeathstroke

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#42  Edited By TheDeathstroke

Orion

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Orion

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Captain Marvel Shazam