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#1 Posted by TourneyMaster (371 posts) - - Show Bio
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Death or KO.

In character.

Winner is last one standing.

Ghidorah is trying to eat the earth.

Memphis is on a nearby mountain several dozen miles away with the jewel eye. Saitama does not know about him.

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#3 Edited by TourneyMaster (371 posts) - - Show Bio

Feats for this Ghidorah to judge the fight.

Dimensional Being

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Ghidorah is stated a being of another universe, and dimension.

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Stated again Ghidorah is a dimensional monster and Godzilla cannot harm it.

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Memphis stated Ghidorah is a higher dimensional being to our own dimension. So advance that to the very science of Lightspeed capable beings is unexplainable except through the Gematron Calculations.

Durability

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Ghidorah first manifestation on earth is a shadow from the darkness devouring human sacrifices. Having no real physical form.

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Ghidorah energy form is unable to be physically attack, but physical when Ghidorah attacks. A contradiction as stated. Ghidorah can also bypass Godzilla's shields too.

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King Ghidorah withstands 3000 Celsius heats from Godzilla. Heats that were melting the rock around them.

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Ghidorah tanks a massive explosion of a FTL speed ships energy core detonates. The blast was so powerful we see energy waves covering portions of earth below.

Weakness

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Ghidorah has one major weakness. Memphis was needed to anchor Ghidorah to our universe through a special stone eye. This allowed Ghidorah to break the rules of our universe.

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After the stone eye is destroyed, Ghidorah is anchored to our universe, and its laws. Heavily depowering Ghidorah, and allowing data to be gathered. It also stated the Ergosphere of the Singularities were decaying saving earth from being sucked in.

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Once anchored to our universe Godzilla is able to physically one shot Ghidorah heads, after which the dissipate.

Invisible To Sensores

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Ghidorah is stated invisible to nearly every form of sensor including Outboard Sensores, Thermal, Radio Waves, Radiation, Infrared, Magnetic Waves. Only Gravitational sensors worked as well the human five senses. Ghidorah presence also affected Data Timestamps, and created Runtime Errors.

Absorbing

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Ghidorah fully absorbs the body parts of the humans shadows it bites into.

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Ghidorah bites drain Godzilla of his massive energy stores of radiation, electrictro-magnetism, and heat.

Singularities

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Ghidorah generates a stated a real world naturally occurring singularity that bends time and space with its very gravitational presence.

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Stated that the Singularities have Ergospheres. Agrospheres is the region outside of rotating black holes.

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Ghidorah generates singularities on earth to attack Godzilla via its dimension.

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Ghidorah first Singularity within half hour is nearly big enough to begin to devour Earth.

Space-Time Distortion

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Ghidorah's presence distorts space and time.

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Ghidorah presence warps time so that the engine of the ship was blown up 40 seconds ago, but the bridge was able to still talk to them in the present. Stated the ship was losing temporal integrity.

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Ghidorah's presence distorted time that the ships readings stated the crew was already dead, even though they were still in the past before death hit them.

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Ghidorah's singularity was not even detected or seen by the bridge crew of the ship till after 120 seconds it was formed. Appearing out of nowhere to the bridge crew and ships sensors.

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Ghidorah disrots gravity around him. Pushing a massive ships pressure limit over 270% from passive gravity spikes.

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Ghidorah presence and singularities affect the whole planets atmosphere with gravity.

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Ghidorah's space distortions is so strong it lifts Godzilla easy and causes Godzilla to gently float around with rubble.

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Godzilla atomic beam is casually deflected by the space-time distortions.

Planet Eater

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Stated to have destroyed Exif world.

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Stated capable of destroying our planet.

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Ghidorah's Singularity within half hour is nearly as large as Earth. Ready to absorb earth for its appetite.

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#4 Posted by FireStarLord73194 (4244 posts) - - Show Bio

So basically ghodorah is galactus now?

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#5 Posted by TourneyMaster (371 posts) - - Show Bio

So basically ghodorah is galactus now?

Galactus is like galaxy level. Ghidorah is planet level with half hour time. Though messing with space and time, absorbing matter and energy, generating blackholes pretty much, and no physical body is hell of a powerset.

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#6 Posted by FireStarLord73194 (4244 posts) - - Show Bio

@tourneymaster: well if he’s not tangible I don’t see how saitama can hurt him

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#7 Posted by jashro44 (51795 posts) - - Show Bio

Saitaima probably isn't going to think to attack Memphis without some reason but there isn't anything Saitaima can do to Ghidorah directly. But considering Ghidorah was so large that he dwarfed Godzilla, and Saitaima is so fast it would be really hard for Ghidorah to catch him. Memphis probably can't track Saitaima's speed either.

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#8 Posted by diydeath (2312 posts) - - Show Bio

Saitama probably shatters the eye with the air pressure of a serious punch that he's obviously going to try using. After that ezpzlemonsqueezy.

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#9 Posted by TourneyMaster (371 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

Saitaima probably isn't going to think to attack Memphis without some reason but there isn't anything Saitaima can do to Ghidorah directly. But considering Ghidorah was so large that he dwarfed Godzilla, and Saitaima is so fast it would be really hard for Ghidorah to catch him. Memphis probably can't track Saitaima's speed either.

I dont know if Ghidorah needs to catch anything with his Singularity eating the planet in half hour time and the Time/Space Distortions AOE. That was really Ghidorah best attacks.

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#10 Posted by Frocharocha (6168 posts) - - Show Bio

None can hurt each other. Theoretically Saitama could punch him so hard that Ghidorah would explode from within his dimension, but his "no limits" still have no feats to back up that

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#11 Edited by Frocharocha (6168 posts) - - Show Bio

@tourneymaster said:
@jashro44 said:

Saitaima probably isn't going to think to attack Memphis without some reason but there isn't anything Saitaima can do to Ghidorah directly. But considering Ghidorah was so large that he dwarfed Godzilla, and Saitaima is so fast it would be really hard for Ghidorah to catch him. Memphis probably can't track Saitaima's speed either.

I dont know if Ghidorah needs to catch anything with his Singularity eating the planet in half hour time and the Time/Space Distortions AOE. That was really Ghidorah best attacks.

He manipulates gravity to catch his prey. Him biting Godzilla is the human mind trying to compreehend what is happening. He isn't actually there, just a gravity wave projection. His real body is in his dimension.

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#12 Posted by TourneyMaster (371 posts) - - Show Bio

@tourneymaster said:
@jashro44 said:

Saitaima probably isn't going to think to attack Memphis without some reason but there isn't anything Saitaima can do to Ghidorah directly. But considering Ghidorah was so large that he dwarfed Godzilla, and Saitaima is so fast it would be really hard for Ghidorah to catch him. Memphis probably can't track Saitaima's speed either.

I dont know if Ghidorah needs to catch anything with his Singularity eating the planet in half hour time and the Time/Space Distortions AOE. That was really Ghidorah best attacks.

He manipulates gravity to catch his prey. Him biting Godzilla is the human mind trying to compreehend what is happening. He isn't actually there, just a gravity wave projection. His real body is in his dimension.

Not really. The sensors simply could not read it. Giving false info and time distortions made it worse too. He was physically biting GZ and absorbing his energy ONLY through the biting acts. You cannot say he was not there at all when he physically was after Memphis lost his eye catching Ghidorah in our Universe, granting physical forms and data readouts. So that debunks he was not there at all. It was simply the fact he is a higher dimensional being as memphis stated, and our Science could not make sense of it. However our senses did so as did gravity sensores. I mean his real body is in the dimension yes, but those were his heads out of the singularities. The writer/Director confirm this in a interview when asked about it too. He stated the heads come out and have incredible length and stretch while the main body is tucked away in the other dimension.

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#13 Posted by Tethadam (2151 posts) - - Show Bio

Was that Anime movie any good?

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#14 Edited by TourneyMaster (371 posts) - - Show Bio

@frocharocha said:

None can hurt each other. Theoretically Saitama could punch him so hard that Ghidorah would explode from within his dimension, but his "no limits" still have no feats to back up that

No feats to back it up? So this ships lightspeed breaking energy power is not comparable power to a serious punch from Saitima in energy power?

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VS

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Did not phase the head of Ghidorah. Also is there evidence Saitima can hit intangible being not bound to our universal laws? A being of a higher dimensional plane to our own? Thats hell of a claim to say "no feats". I mean no limits is one thing, it seem clear energy attacks may been able to damage Ghidorah as Godzilla rays did bust the singularities fine, but physical attacks wise its simply shown they do not touch him. Same for the Shields that tank Saitima like blows having zero effect on Ghidorah. Hell I could argue the very (naturally occurring thus real) time-space breaking singulrities Ghidorah heads pop through as proof of his intangibility to damaging effects in our universe.

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There is plenty of proof and feats, but if you mean NLF, sure. im sure something higher than planet level or anything capable of busting Singularities can beat ghidorah here easy, or attacking Memphis eye for easy win too.

@jashro44 said:

Memphis probably can't track Saitaima's speed either.

One other thing to add, Memphis does not need to track Saitima. In the movie Memphis was not in space where ghidorah attack the ship, and memphis had his whole back turn on the Godzilla fight too while mentally assaulting the hero. He does not need to see Saitama.

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#15 Edited by TourneyMaster (371 posts) - - Show Bio

@tethadam said:

Was that Anime movie any good?

lol no. It was garbage like the rest of the Trilogy :(

Disappointing. I mean, I guess its a interesting film in the talking aspect of character explanations, and wonky pseudo science explanations, and the background lore was VERY interesting. Godzilla, MechaGZ City, and Ghidorah as Kaiju are OP as shit too. Thats it.

The monster fights are just not there, and the Ghidorah one was pretty slow and lame. Most of the interesting shit takes place in the Japanese only novels. The characters suck, the pacing blows, and the "human interaction" is horribly done and stiff. The ending blew too. It was a fail.

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#16 Posted by Toratorn (5694 posts) - - Show Bio

Based on listed feats, Saitama can't do shit to Ghidorah and will get killed by a black hole.

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#17 Posted by Helloman (26689 posts) - - Show Bio

One Punch Man wins.

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#18 Posted by jashro44 (51795 posts) - - Show Bio

@tourneymaster: The singularities never sucked up anything as I recall. Ghidorah's head's appeared through the singularities IIRC. As for ghidorah destroying the ship I don't know how to explain that. Maybe the priest on the ship was tell Ghidorah what to do or was instructing Memphis with his TP.

I do know that it was stated that Ghidorah needed Memphis to track Godzilla and know what it was doing, which is why none of the instruments could sense Ghidorah but Ghidorah could sense Godzilla.

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#19 Posted by Doomsguy (120 posts) - - Show Bio

Bloodlusted Saitama sends Ghidorah to the nearest Solar System with one punch.

If he isn't bloodlusted he simply stomps.

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#20 Edited by TourneyMaster (371 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@tourneymaster: The singularities never sucked up anything as I recall. Ghidorah's head's appeared through the singularities IIRC. As for ghidorah destroying the ship I don't know how to explain that. Maybe the priest on the ship was tell Ghidorah what to do or was instructing Memphis with his TP.

I do know that it was stated that Ghidorah needed Memphis to track Godzilla and know what it was doing, which is why none of the instruments could sense Ghidorah but Ghidorah could sense Godzilla.

It was sucking in earth with a stated natural singularity it made. The Sensores and readings all showed gravity sucking artwork in it how it work.

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Everytime a Singularity was forming it generated a gravitational suck effect. Shown and stated.

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See space Singularity it open first above the ship getting bigger and bigger compared to earth?

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Shortly flat out stated Ghidorah was going to destroy the planet. Im not sure how you missed this.

It was not stated he needed Memphis to track anything. Only that Memphis stone eye guided Ghidorah. Again, how can it attack godzilla every scene Memphis back was turn, looking at Haru, or staring at the ground in TP assault with haru. So that debunks that argument. You yourself cannot explain how Memphis guided it to attack the ship and made excuses and assumptions how so. So its not fact. The Eye was only needed for Memphis to somehow pseudo science help Ghidorah interact and attack in our dimension.

Though instructing with TP is a good assumption and no reason to assume Saitama brain thoughts can outrun Telepathy that crosses space instantly and dimensions.

@doomsguy said:

Bloodlusted Saitama sends Ghidorah to the nearest Solar System with one punch.

If he isn't bloodlusted he simply stomps.

How does he send Ghidorah to a Solar System? Any feats or such how he can do this given Ghidorahs power set and hax? Thanks.

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#21 Posted by Doomsguy (120 posts) - - Show Bio

@tourneymaster: I wasn't serious.But Saitama its very powerful.

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For example he can jump from the moon to the Earth easily.And I am sure he was holding back for not destroy the moon.

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#22 Edited by TourneyMaster (371 posts) - - Show Bio

@doomsguy said:

@tourneymaster: I wasn't serious.But Saitama its very powerful.

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For example he can jump from the moon to the Earth easily.And I am sure he was holding back for not destroy the moon.

Saitama is insane powerful, no doubt. I just maybe he had some feast of hitting intangible beings or something I was unaware about. Otherwise the best argument is accidentally killing or damaging the stone eye of Metphis to win.

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#23 Posted by Doomsguy (120 posts) - - Show Bio

@tourneymaster: I didn't even know that this Ghidorah is intangible.Sorry bro.The last thing I think when someone says Ghidorah is in that kind of Galactus.In this case I suposse King Ghidorah is winning here

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#24 Posted by jashro44 (51795 posts) - - Show Bio

@tourneymaster: There was an updraft that was caused by Ghidorah. When Ghidorah showed up there was lightning and a lot of wind but nothing got sucked up into the black hole. Yea the singularity got bigger and bigger but I don't think it was a regular black hole. We only see Ghidorah's heads go through the singularities. The last image you posted was in reference to Ghidorah destroying the planet not the singularities.

It was not stated he needed Memphis to track anything. Only that Memphis stone eye guided Ghidorah. Again, how can it attack godzilla every scene Memphis back was turn, looking at Haru, or staring at the ground in TP assault with haru. So that debunks that argument. You yourself cannot explain how Memphis guided it to attack the ship and made excuses and assumptions how so. So its not fact. The Eye was only needed for Memphis to somehow pseudo science help Ghidorah interact and attack in our dimension.

Its not like ghidorah moved around much after it bite into Godzilla. It just carried Godzilla into the air IIRC. It was stated Metphis was guiding Ghidorah and when he died, Ghidorah dropped Godzilla, who than proceeded to obliterate Ghidorah. It definitely depends on Metphis.

Though instructing with TP is a good assumption and no reason to assume Saitama brain thoughts can outrun Telepathy that crosses space instantly and dimensions.

Saitaima most definitely can move that fast. Genos couldn't track him and thought he was fighting Saitaima at one point but was only fighting his after image.

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#25 Edited by TourneyMaster (371 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@tourneymaster: There was an updraft that was caused by Ghidorah. When Ghidorah showed up there was lightning and a lot of wind but nothing got sucked up into the black hole. Yea the singularity got bigger and bigger but I don't think it was a regular black hole. We only see Ghidorah's heads go through the singularities. The last image you posted was in reference to Ghidorah destroying the planet not the singularities.

It was not stated he needed Memphis to track anything. Only that Memphis stone eye guided Ghidorah. Again, how can it attack godzilla every scene Memphis back was turn, looking at Haru, or staring at the ground in TP assault with haru. So that debunks that argument. You yourself cannot explain how Memphis guided it to attack the ship and made excuses and assumptions how so. So its not fact. The Eye was only needed for Memphis to somehow pseudo science help Ghidorah interact and attack in our dimension.

Its not like ghidorah moved around much after it bite into Godzilla. It just carried Godzilla into the air IIRC. It was stated Metphis was guiding Ghidorah and when he died, Ghidorah dropped Godzilla, who than proceeded to obliterate Ghidorah. It definitely depends on Metphis.

Though instructing with TP is a good assumption and no reason to assume Saitama brain thoughts can outrun Telepathy that crosses space instantly and dimensions.

Saitaima most definitely can move that fast. Genos couldn't track him and thought he was fighting Saitaima at one point but was only fighting his after image.

So how does he destroy the planet? You again sound like making excuses and not proving otherwise how. All we see is stated "Naturally occurring Singularities" that have stated Gravity suckage to them. Updrafts is due to air being "sucked" up jash. That is what a Updraft is lol. We all see in scene, the space Singularity getting bigger and bigger (it was growing in that gif ever slightly) the whole Godzilla fight, and nearly earth size. Coincidence? I think not. Saying that has no role in "Destroying the Planet" is really hardcore playing devil advocate dont ya think? Otherwise, how does he destroy planets? I will wait for your proof.

Again PROVE he needed to be seen the whole fight. The ONLY line we get is this.

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Ghidorah is stated through Metphis and his stone eye Ghidorah has perspective, that he is guiding simply guiding it which simply means Memphis is ordering Ghidorah more than anything to attack something. NOTHING STATES MEMPHIS NEEDS TO SEE WHAT GHIDORAH IS ATTACKING. If you can prove me wrong with a statement that Mephitis needs to see his foe, please provide it. I can AGAIN debunk your claim he needs to see it by showing he is not looking at Godzilla or the fight at all for over 20 minutes of the film as Ghidorah continues to latch onto and prove intangible to Godzilla counter attacks. I can prove this as Ghidorah attacks a ship in space far from eyesight. You need to show me where Memphis is stated he needs to see Godzilla for Godzilla to be affected. You cannot at all.

Um wrong. You showed physical movement. Not the speed of brainwaves or thoughts. Magneto is not lightspeed at all but tracks the lightspeed of objects with his mind. memphis mind showed telepathic connection traveling instantaneously with other Exifs in High Orbit (Stated high orbit by ship personnel monitoring the whole ordeal) with no loss of time. Nothing Saitama ever done is that fast. His best speed feat is a 14 second time frame jump from Moon to Earth. So lets not bullshit here with physical body speed and mental presence of a being who instantly communicates across high orbit and across dimensional planes with Ghidorah directly. You cannot really make such a claim to begin with anymore than me making the argument pointless anyway. I can further argue if you wish the ability to affect 40 seconds of time displacement through space-time deninding affecting Saitama perspective and speed anyway.

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#26 Posted by Rockette (5236 posts) - - Show Bio

@toratorn said:

Based on listed feats, Saitama can't do shit to Ghidorah and will get killed by a black hole.

Word.

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#27 Posted by TourneyMaster (371 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: by the way I never noticed this until now....

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Ghidorah generates a stated a real world naturally occurring singularity that bends time and space with its very gravitational presence. I showed this already, but this part is new.

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Stated that the Singularities have Ergospheres. Agrospheres is the region outside of rotating black holes.

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Ghidorah first Singularity within half hour is nearly big enough to begin to devour Earth, until the defeat of ghidorah and its stated the Ergosphere was decaying thus the end of the Black Hole/Singularity ready to hit earth with its event horizon.

Its pretty open and shut as far as comic/anime science goes.

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#28 Posted by jashro44 (51795 posts) - - Show Bio

@tourneymaster: Honestly it sounds like you just made this in an attempt to create a spite thread. Your trying very hard

So how does he destroy the planet? You again sound like making excuses and not proving otherwise how. All we see is stated "Naturally occurring Singularities" that have stated Gravity suckage to them. Updrafts is due to air being "sucked" up jash. That is what a Updraft is lol. We all see in scene, the space Singularity getting bigger and bigger (it was growing in that gif ever slightly) the whole Godzilla fight, and nearly earth size. Coincidence? I think not. Saying that has no role in "Destroying the Planet" is really hardcore playing devil advocate dont ya think? Otherwise, how does he destroy planets? I will wait for your proof.

I just assumed Ghidorah would consume the planet over time. I assume that is why he bite Godzilla, because he was going to consume him. Plus Metphis whole plan was to have Sakaki release Ghidorah from his dimension. We only did ever see Ghidorah's head, not the rest of his body.

Again PROVE he needed to be seen the whole fight. The ONLY line we get is this.

Its stated quite clearly there. How can Metphis guide Ghidorah to do an action hhe is not aware of?

Ghidorah is stated through Metphis and his stone eye Ghidorah has perspective, that he is guiding simply guiding it which simply means Memphis is ordering Ghidorah more than anything to attack something. NOTHING STATES MEMPHIS NEEDS TO SEE WHAT GHIDORAH IS ATTACKING. If you can prove me wrong with a statement that Mephitis needs to see his foe, please provide it. I can AGAIN debunk your claim he needs to see it by showing he is not looking at Godzilla or the fight at all for over 20 minutes of the film as Ghidorah continues to latch onto and prove intangible to Godzilla counter attacks. I can prove this as Ghidorah attacks a ship in space far from eyesight. You need to show me where Memphis is stated he needs to see Godzilla for Godzilla to be affected. You cannot at all.

Either way Ghidorah has no speed feats and Saitaima is an ant from his perspective. So this actually makes it much harder for Ghidorah.

Um wrong. You showed physical movement. Not the speed of brainwaves or thoughts. Magneto is not lightspeed at all but tracks the lightspeed of objects with his mind.

Not sure why your bringing up Magneto. If he's tracked light speed objects before its either because he genuinely has enhanced reaction time or your misinterpreting the feat your referencing. But moving faster than thought is something spider-man has done when he fought moon dragon. IIRC the speed of thought is between 200-300 miliseconds last I looked it up.

memphis mind showed telepathic connection traveling instantaneously with other Exifs in High Orbit (Stated high orbit by ship personnel monitoring the whole ordeal) with no loss of time. Nothing Saitama ever done is that fast. His best speed feat is a 14 second time frame jump from Moon to Earth. So lets not bullshit here with physical body speed and mental presence of a being who instantly communicates across high orbit and across dimensional planes with Ghidorah directly.

I don't think there telepathic communication works this way. Regardless Metphis himself doesn't have super speed.

You cannot really make such a claim to begin with anymore than me making the argument pointless anyway. I can further argue if you wish the ability to affect 40 seconds of time displacement through space-time deninding affecting Saitama perspective and speed anyway.

I'm not clear what your trying to say here.

Its pretty open and shut as far as comic/anime science goes.

I'm not gonna address everything you said about the black hole. I want to focus on this part because I think its important that the Exif science is not real and is largely made up. That black hole did not respond like a black hole. If it did I am pretty sure the Earth would have been destroyed instantly. The movie even made that point when the space craft noticed the black hole but there instruments were getting all sorts of weird readings that made no sense to them. This was a black hole created by the Exif who are an advanced alien race to the point where there science proved the existence of there God and that they were able to see into the far future and see the death of the universe. I don't know why the black hole wasn't shown sucking anything up but it wasn't. Not even the ship got sucked up and it was pretty close to the initial black hole. Yes it created an updraft but that was all the singularities did.

Regardless during the battle with Godzilla nothing was actually sucked into the black hole. If it did I am sure you would have posted the gif by now. It seems much more likely to me that Saitaima would accidentally kill Metphies. He has caused collateral damage in his fights before. At that point he should be able to smash Ghidorah. I don't see Ghidorah ending the fight quickly or really at all.

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#29 Edited by TourneyMaster (371 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44:

I just assumed Ghidorah would consume the planet over time. I assume that is why he bite Godzilla, because he was going to consume him. Plus Metphis whole plan was to have Sakaki release Ghidorah from his dimension. We only did ever see Ghidorah's head, not the rest of his body.

Not at all. Ghidorah was a higher dimensional being and cannot enter our dimension. That was the point. he could only enter through the rifts, and even then was not physically there until the stone eye was busted. Then he took some physical form, but still a being of energy. Its wonky as hell.

Its stated quite clearly there. How can Metphis guide Ghidorah to do an action hhe is not aware of?

Its not stated clearly. I prove this with the exact wording. No where it says he needs to see the object for Ghidorah to attack, and we seen dozens of times this not to be the case by feats I listed.

Either way Ghidorah has no speed feats and Saitaima is an ant from his perspective. So this actually makes it much harder for Ghidorah.

Speed for Saitama, or any speedster, will be hard to do when a) Ghidorah bends time up to 40-120 seconds perspectives, and b) ghidorah manipulates gravity and bends space making traveling/weight/momentum ect all wonky. Also how is Saitama a ant?

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These poor humans were not "ants" from Ghidorah's perspective. Higher Dimensional being mate. I keep saying it but you seem unable to get it. Like a 3d being to a 2d one.

Not sure why your bringing up Magneto. If he's tracked light speed objects before its either because he genuinely has enhanced reaction time or your misinterpreting the feat your referencing. But moving faster than thought is something spider-man has done when he fought moon dragon. IIRC the speed of thought is between 200-300 miliseconds last I looked it up.

Yet guess what? We see the two Exifs communicating real time with zero delay from earth surface to high orbit. 22 thousand miles distance. That WAAAAAAAAY over 300 milliseconds my friend of travel time. So its faster than thought anyway.

I don't think there telepathic communication works this way. Regardless Metphis himself doesn't have super speed.

Regardless he does not need it for stated reasons. He can just astral plane Saitama thoughts with 22,000+ miles in a instant speed. Nothing about Saitima outside his moon jump feat of 225,622 miles to earth in 14 seconds. And that was him just jumping, not running or fighting speed. Not that it matters with Saitima is fighting Ghidorah and has to contend with Space-Time bending battle zone.

I'm not clear what your trying to say here.

Things in Ghidorah's area were affected by time issues. The Ship suffered several time loops in various parts of the ship due to time bending in the Ghidorah presence. A major factor. What you see in real time is not real time. As the bridge found out.

I'm not gonna address everything you said about the black hole. I want to focus on this part because I think its important that the Exif science is not real and is largely made up.

I agree and this is why you or ANYONE trying to apply real science to debunk what is stated as auto losing argument. Its how the science works for that universe. After all we dont have Comic Science in real universe physics, but we accept it for battle forum debates. Same here. So why try to use real world logic now to debunk what the Anime clearly said what it was and how it works to take away powers/feats? Its a lowball move, not saying your trying to do that.

Regardless during the battle with Godzilla nothing was actually sucked into the black hole. If it did I am sure you would have posted the gif by now. It seems much more likely to me that Saitaima would accidentally kill Metphies. He has caused collateral damage in his fights before. At that point he should be able to smash Ghidorah. I don't see Ghidorah ending the fight quickly or really at all.

Once again, re read the feats and what I said. the Singularity was increasing in size the whole battle and Earth was not touch by the Event Horizon at the end luckily, which is why they stated the Ergosphere was decaying as a good thing. i also showed various statements and scans of a gravitational pull to several of the singularities. They had suckage just not the sukage YOU equate Black Holes as should having is all. That simple.

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#30 Posted by jashro44 (51795 posts) - - Show Bio

@tourneymaster:

Not at all. Ghidorah was a higher dimensional being and cannot enter out dimension. That was the point.

No. Metphies stated that he wanted Harou to pray to Ghidorah because it would make him a reality in "this universe" at around the 1 hour and 7 minute mark.

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Right to left.

Also it was stated at one point in the movie

Its not stated clearly. I prove this with the exact wording. No where it says he needs to see the object for Ghidorah to attack, and we seen dozens of times this not to be the case by feats I listed.

Either way Ghidorah has no speed feats and Saitaima is an ant from his perspective. So this actually makes it much harder for Ghidorah.

I actually found another quote when looking for the above quote:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Speed for Saitama, or any speedster, will be hard to do when a) Ghidorah bends time up to 40-120 seconds perspectives, and b) ghidorah manipulates gravity and bends space making traveling/weight/momentum ect all wonky.

I don't think anyone really struggled to travel. We saw Godzilla's atomic breath get redirected as a result of this. Other than that all I remember this ability doing is messing with the instruments on the ship.

Yet guess what? We see the two Exifs communicating real time with zero delay from earth surface to high orbit. 22 thousand miles distance. That WAAAAAAAAY over 300 milliseconds my friend of travel time. So its faster than thought anyway.

We don't really know how there telepathy works. I don't think this suggests super speed.

Regardless he does not need it for stated reasons. He can just astral plane Saitama thoughts with 22,000+ miles in a instant speed. Nothing about Saitima outside his moon jump feat of 225,622 miles to earth in 14 seconds. And that was him just jumping, not running or fighting speed. Not that it matters with Saitima is fighting Ghidorah and has to contend with Space-Time bending battle zone.

I don't think this is how it works.

Things in Ghidorah's area were affected by time issues. The Ship suffered several time loops in various parts of the ship due to time bending in the Ghidorah presence. A major factor. What you see in real time is not real time. As the bridge found out.

It affected the instruments on the ship but it didn't affect any of the people. This isn't like Hits time skip ability from DBS.

I agree and this is why you or ANYONE trying to apply real science to debunk what is stated as auto losing argument. Its how the science works for that universe. After all we dont have Comic Science in real universe physics, but we accept it for battle forum debates. Same here. So why try to use real world logic now to debunk what the Anime clearly said what it was and how it works to take away powers/feats? Its a lowball move, not saying your trying to do that.

I'm not using real life science. The only scientific fact I referenced was the fact that the black hole didn't destroy the planet and that was in response to you bringing up the anatomy of a black hole. I'm observing what happened in the movie. No one got sucked into the black hole.

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#31 Edited by jashro44 (51795 posts) - - Show Bio

@tourneymaster: I noticed an edit:

Also how is Saitama a ant?

These poor humans were not "ants" from Ghidorah's perspective. Higher Dimensional being mate. I keep saying it but you seem unable to get it. Like a 3d being to a 2d one.

This was before ghidorah's size was realized. Regardless I found a direct quote saying Metephies works as Ghidorah's eyes.

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#32 Posted by TourneyMaster (371 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@tourneymaster: I noticed an edit:

Also how is Saitama a ant?

These poor humans were not "ants" from Ghidorah's perspective. Higher Dimensional being mate. I keep saying it but you seem unable to get it. Like a 3d being to a 2d one.

This was before ghidorah's size was realized. Regardless I found a direct quote saying Metephies works as Ghidorah's eyes.

Post the quote and TELL me what time frame of the movie so I can find it. I wonder if the proof is whats officially translated via Subtitles or what is translated via American Voice Actors fitting words and changing translation to fit character mouths. Let me know so I can settle this. Not that it matters, as again... Memphis clearly could not see the space ship or see the battle the whole time he was mentally assaulting his love interest and back turn on 80% of the fight. But I like to see this proof regardless. I dont see it after re watching the movie a few hours ago.

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#33 Posted by jashro44 (51795 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@tourneymaster: I noticed an edit:

Also how is Saitama a ant?

These poor humans were not "ants" from Ghidorah's perspective. Higher Dimensional being mate. I keep saying it but you seem unable to get it. Like a 3d being to a 2d one.

This was before ghidorah's size was realized. Regardless I found a direct quote saying Metephies works as Ghidorah's eyes.

Post the quote and TELL me what time frame of the movie so I can find it. I wonder if the proof is whats officially translated via Subtitles or what is translated via American Voice Actors fitting words and changing translation to fit character mouths. Let me know so I can settle this. Not that it matters, as again... Memphis clearly could not see the space ship or see the battle the whole time he was mentally assaulting his love interest and back turn on 80% of the fight. But I like to see this proof regardless. I dont see it after re watching the movie a few hours ago.

It was never stated I just think its clear. Ghidorah dwarfed Godzilla in size later on in the film. His body would not physically fit inside the cave. As for the spaceship thing I addressed it above.

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#35 Posted by jashro44 (51795 posts) - - Show Bio
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#36 Edited by TourneyMaster (371 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:
@tourneymaster said:
@jashro44 said:

@tourneymaster: I noticed an edit:

Also how is Saitama a ant?

These poor humans were not "ants" from Ghidorah's perspective. Higher Dimensional being mate. I keep saying it but you seem unable to get it. Like a 3d being to a 2d one.

This was before ghidorah's size was realized. Regardless I found a direct quote saying Metephies works as Ghidorah's eyes.

Post the quote and TELL me what time frame of the movie so I can find it. I wonder if the proof is whats officially translated via Subtitles or what is translated via American Voice Actors fitting words and changing translation to fit character mouths. Let me know so I can settle this. Not that it matters, as again... Memphis clearly could not see the space ship or see the battle the whole time he was mentally assaulting his love interest and back turn on 80% of the fight. But I like to see this proof regardless. I dont see it after re watching the movie a few hours ago.

It was never stated I just think its clear. Ghidorah dwarfed Godzilla in size later on in the film. His body would not physically fit inside the cave. As for the spaceship thing I addressed it above.

So again its your opinion vs literally going only by what is said and shown. Telepathy is fine though, I can get behind that.

While unable to physically fit in the cave, there is no reason he has to be Godzilla size either as shown he can take different forms and sizes. maintaining the golden dragon shape in general.

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#37 Posted by jashro44 (51795 posts) - - Show Bio

@tourneymaster:

So again its your opinion vs literally going only by what is said and shown. Telepathy is fine though, I can get behind that.

What are you talking about? The metphies thing? Because I showed a direct quote. Two actually....

I'm assuming Ghidorah is in the giant form where he fought Godzilla.

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#38 Edited by TourneyMaster (371 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@tourneymaster:

No. Metphies stated that he wanted Harou to pray to Ghidorah because it would make him a reality in "this universe" at around the 1 hour and 7 minute mark.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
Right to left.

Also it was stated at one point in the movie

All this proves is why he cannot enter our world full body. He needed Harou to make it happen, but it was not needed to devour the world clearly. The scientist of exposition stated this flat out. As long godzilla is beaten world is destroyed. Harou believing or not not needed. The giant forming singularity probaly sees to that.

I actually found another quote when looking for the above quote:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Your own quote works against ya. It sounds metaphoricle than anything. Again stated in your first quote "Can only enter this world by means of observation." Suggesting you just need someone with senses of out world to be a anchor. Stated here...

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Stated that THE MONSTER not Mephitis is determining Godzilla Existence. The MONSTER! Keywords used there. Stated right after that Meph is simply GUIDING it. Not needed as eyes. So all this proof suggest the Someone is watching Godzilla is metaphorical or contradicting. Either way we see plenty of feats not watching Godzilla and stated the Monster is in charge of seeing Godzilla while Meph is merely a anchor to observing out universe for the higher dimensional being to interact with. So much proof of feats show this. In your own scan we see Meph and Harou in a TP tug of war to get Harou to worship ghidorah yet he is stated needed as Ghidorah's eyes? False right there. Clearly metaphorical with other proof in feats and statements showing the truth of it.

I don't think anyone really struggled to travel. We saw Godzilla's atomic breath get redirected as a result of this. Other than that all I remember this ability doing is messing with the instruments on the ship.

The ship struggle to travel. It could not pull away from the gravity and time loop shenanigans meant everyone was already dead when to their perspective they were alive. Godzilla was floating all gentle like in the air half the fight, something the scientist noted as impossible and makes no sense. Its a huge fator.

We don't really know how there telepathy works. I don't think this suggests super speed.

Even better. It suggest real time mental thoughts at distances in instant and travels through dimensions barriers too. So why is he "out speeding" it> Suggest he won't. Farfetch argument actually.

I don't think this is how it works.

I dont think you can outrun the telepathy IMO. So I guess you cannot make a solid argument Saitama will move to fast to be "Observe" even though I feel I debunk this handily anyway if your only proof is a metaphorical statement vs several literal statements and feats thats not how it works. Not to mention Space and time bending, and not to mention Saitama would likely pause between attacks to be observe anyway.

Things in Ghidorah's area were affected by time issues. The Ship suffered several time loops in various parts of the ship due to time bending in the Ghidorah presence. A major factor. What you see in real time is not real time. As the bridge found out.

It affected the instruments on the ship but it didn't affect any of the people. This isn't like Hits time skip ability from DBS.

Time manipulation is time manipulation. The instruments were not simply affected. They were Gematron powered instruments, which itself is a math science that allows you to see the future in degrees, predict Lightspeed travel outcomes for FTL travel, and allows beings to reach higher dimensional beings. Lets not even try to pretend it was malfunction equipment when they mention is dozen times and proved the time loop twice via what the bridge saw personally.

I'm not using real life science. The only scientific fact I referenced was the fact that the black hole didn't destroy the planet and that was in response to you bringing up the anatomy of a black hole. I'm observing what happened in the movie. No one got sucked into the black hole.

yes, correct, the Event Horizon never touch earth, it was still expanding.

No Caption Provided

Main Scientist of all exposition shows us growing Singularity growing next to earth, then in order of scene states Ghidorah will destroy planet. Its pretty much spelled out.

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#39 Posted by jashro44 (51795 posts) - - Show Bio

@tourneymaster:

All this proves is why he cannot enter our world full body. He needed Harou to make it happen, but it was not needed to devour the world clearly. The scientist of exposition stated this flat out. As long godzilla is beaten world is destroyed. Harou believing or not not needed. The giant forming singularity probaly sees to that.

The singularity was a gate way to Ghidoarh's dimension so why would the singularities suck Earth into them when Metphies was trying to get ghidorah out?

Your own quote works against ya. It sounds metaphoricle than anything. Again stated in your first quote "Can only enter this world by means of observation." Suggesting you just need someone with senses of out world to be a anchor. Stated here...

Why would it be metaphorical? He is trying to inform Harou what is going on.

Stated that THE MONSTER not Mephitis is determining Godzilla Existence. The MONSTER! Keywords used there. Stated right after that Meph is simply GUIDING it. Not needed as eyes.

  1. That line of dialogue comes just before the scientist concludes Metphies role.
  2. Also the line in the movie says "its aware of Godzilla's existence" which makes more sense than the subtitle.

So all this proof suggest the Someone is watching Godzilla is metaphorical or contradicting. Either way we see plenty of feats not watching Godzilla and stated the Monster is in charge of seeing Godzilla while Meph is merely a anchor to observing out universe for the higher dimensional being to interact with. So much proof of feats show this. In your own scan we see Meph and Harou in a TP tug of war to get Harou to worship ghidorah yet he is stated needed as Ghidorah's eyes? False right there. Clearly metaphorical with other proof in feats and statements showing the truth of it.

I don't see why Metphies can't just do two things at once.

Bullshit. The ship struggle to travel. It could not pull away from the gravity and time loop shenanigans meant everyone was already dead when to their perspective they were alive. Godzilla was floating all gentle like in the air half the fight, something the scientist noted as impossible and makes no sense. Its a HUGE FACTOR.

I don't remember the part about the ship but Godzilla was lifted into the air by Ghidorah not the black holes.

Even better. It suggest real time mental thoughts at distances in instant and travels through dimensions barriers too. So why is he "out speeding" it> Suggest he won't. Farfetch argument actually.

It could also be that there minds are in contact and there minds are "touching". We have no idea how there TP works. Your making a lot of assumptions.

I dont think you can outrun the telepathy IMO. So I guess you cannot make a solid argument Saitama will move to fast to be "Observe" even though I feel I debunk this handily anyway if your only proof is a metaphorical statement vs several literal statements and feats thats not how it works.

I'm not going to make any argument regarding the telepathy because we don't know how it works. There are statements saying Metphies works as Ghidorah's eyes.

Not to mention Space and time bending, and not to mention Saitama would likely pause between attacks to be observe anyway.

You keep bringing this up but again all Ghidorah really did was mess with the instruments on the ship and redirect Godzilla's beam. He doesn't freeze time or anything like that. Nothing that would help him deal with super speed.

Things in Ghidorah's area were affected by time issues. The Ship suffered several time loops in various parts of the ship due to time bending in the Ghidorah presence. A major factor. What you see in real time is not real time. As the bridge found out.

Yea. That doesn't help Ghidorah deal with Saitaima's speed. It just means if Satiama dies it will happen before he understands it.

Time manipulation is time manipulation. The instruments were not simply affected. They were Gematron powered instruments, which itself is a math science that allows you to see the future in degrees, predict Lightspeed travel outcomes for FTL travel, and allows beings to reach higher dimensional beings. Lets not even try to pretend it was malfunction equipment when they mention is dozen times and proved the time loop twice via what the bridge saw personally.

I never said it was malfunctioning equipment. Your trying to give ghidorah abilities he's never shown.

yes, correct, the Event Horizon never touch earth, it was still expanding.

Main Scientist of all exposition shows us growing Singularity growing next to earth, then in order of scene states Ghidorah will destroy planet. Its pretty much spelled out.

The camera cuts to the black hole when he mentions Ghidorah's physical attacks are from another dimension. The singularity is the gateway to that dimension.

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#40 Edited by TourneyMaster (371 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44:

The singularity was a gate way to Ghidoarh's dimension so why would the singularities suck Earth into them when Metphies was trying to get ghidorah out?

Why would they not?

  • Gravitational Fields? Yes.
  • Ergosphere that specifically deal with black holes and event horizons? Yes.
  • Stated a natural occuring by all data readouts Singularity? Yes.
  • Does it bend space and time? Yes.
  • Getting larger and larger in size to earth? Yes.
  • Ghidorah stated to eat/destroyer worlds and this would indeed eat/destroy the world? Yes.

So why would this not destroy earth? Your stretching the facts hard to say it was not a issue for the planet.

Why would it be metaphorical? He is trying to inform Harou what is going on.

Why would it not when I showed dozens of proof contradicting that one statement of flowery language? Why would it be proof when the "eyes" literally were not used on the Space Ship or Godzilla the whole fight practically? Your proof is shot down then. It states "EYES" not mind or any other logic, and thats proven false. Its contradicted by other statements. Its a false argument by all the mounds of proof. I dont see a need to bring it up from here on out. Its pretty well debunk.

That line of dialogue comes just before the scientist concludes Metphies role.

Wrong that dialogue is the same paragraph.

Also the line in the movie says "its aware of Godzilla's existence" which makes more sense than the subtitle.

Aware of existence is not same as needing eyes on target like a damn laser guided missile as you imply.

I don't see why Metphies can't just do two things at once.

Then prove it if you can. Thats how Comicvine ALWAYS worked no? Why back out of that mindset now to make empty assumptions to make Ghidorah weaker to support your views? You are sounding like me now heh heh ;) let that thought sink in.

I don't remember the part about the ship but Godzilla was lifted into the air by Ghidorah not the black holes.

Wrong again. He was not lifted. He was stated floating not held up or lifted. Difference. Add to this we see rocks and rubble floating to around them. Was that Ghidorah lifting them too? Cmon man.

It could also be that there minds are in contact and there minds are "touching". We have no idea how there TP works. Your making a lot of assumptions.

Im making assumptions my buttocks. Your making SO MANY assumptions how Saitima is able to outrace Tp which we never seen anyone do in even comics except Speed Force Flash via magical Speed Force. Your the one making crap up to suggest something total left field. Its a pointless argument and we can only argue the lowest and coldest logic which is TP was never stated involve thus not. Your the one adding it in there with no proof. TP is not needed nor eyesight from what is flat out stated and shown. Eyesight always on GZ or the Space Ship? Nope. Debunk on eyesight. Is TP used to track Godzilla at any stated time? Nope. Debunk. Thats how Comicvine logic works and you darn well know this. Proof or it never happen.

I'm not going to make any argument regarding the telepathy because we don't know how it works. There are statements saying Metphies works as Ghidorah's eyes.

Which debunk themselves. I showed how they debunk themselves by what we see as proof and what were told via various statements outside your one. Moving on.

You keep bringing this up but again all Ghidorah really did was mess with the instruments on the ship and redirect Godzilla's beam. He doesn't freeze time or anything like that. Nothing that would help him deal with super speed.

Prove he messed with the sensors. Prove where its stated that happen. ll we know Time was stated to be bending, and time was wonky and the Bridge had conversation with someone already past dead with 40 second gap. Stated facts and shown fact. You have no real argument of sensores mentally or magically messed with outside they could not scan Ghidorah except as a gravitational pull.

Heck, explain that shit jash, why was all the data scans messed with EXCEPT the consistent Gravity one on Ghidorah? Why Ghidorah could not messed with that? Simple he was unreadable to scans nothing to do with ship systems or hacking the ship which the crew asked but showed to be unconfirm. Why would timestamp data be compromised but all other self ship readings not be? Again, cmon man. I know you might could make more "empty" assumptions, but what good is that for a debate of facts?

Yea. That doesn't help Ghidorah deal with Saitaima's speed. It just means if Satiama dies it will happen before he understands it.

True, but isnt that the point? Saitama's perception of how the battle is going is altered from other people viewing it thus he is behind the time curve? Something Ghidorah is not bound to as per his whole not applied to our Universe Laws and Physics? That the point I think.

I never said it was malfunctioning equipment. Your trying to give ghidorah abilities he's never shown.

Yes he has shown it. I showed the feats your just ignoring it.

The camera cuts to the black hole when he mentions Ghidorah's physical attacks are from another dimension. The singularity is the gateway to that dimension.

Wrong again, Ghidorah was attacking through three smaller singularities on earth. The one in space was growing bigger and bigger and stated to have a event .... you know what, Im tired repeating myself over and over, just ignore it. I dont care anymore.

So far I am shocked how much you are ignoring the stated facts and amount of visual feats shown to justify a higher dimensional being that bends space and time as stated dozen times over and NOT BOUND TO OUR UNIVERSES LAWS is just some giant lightning monster or some shit you propose. Whatever mate.

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#41 Posted by TourneyMaster (371 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Found this when going through other forums. Stated here http://godzilla-anime.com/news/ somewhere that Gidra eaten thousands of planets through the use of Super Gravity (超重力 Chō Jūryoku). While I dont speak or read Japanese if the word is translated accurately as many Anime fans who know Japanese state so, then thats even more proof of fact from the writers its Gravity related destruction. Just saying.

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#42 Posted by jashro44 (51795 posts) - - Show Bio
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#43 Posted by TourneyMaster (371 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@tourneymaster: I feel like this debate isn't going anywhere.

lol pretty much. We can agree to disagree. Not the first, wont be the last :)