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#101 Posted by pmcinelly784 (1133 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone said:

@cable_extreme: I was talking about the scan you posted of Saitama busting through that planet. That can't be used as it is NOT ON PANEL. That is just cover art.

It may be cover art but the creator of OPM confirmed that it will happen later in the series

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#102 Posted by TheOriginalOne (4107 posts) - - Show Bio

@pmcinelly784: I didn't deny that but that still can't be used as a feat NOW.

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#103 Posted by TheOriginalOne (4107 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: When I was talking about the author said feat, I was talking about the punching through the planet feat, not the boros feat. Sorry if I didn't' make it clear.

When I said - "I agree that this is an ACTUAL feat" - I was talking about the boros feat. Again, sorry for the misunderstanding.

Now I am solely talking about the boros feat:

Stop talking about limits here. Limit means Saitama has potential to grow, that doesn't make an outlier a consistent feat. I already went over this with you.

The author's statement about Boros shows that he was a high-level opponent. THAT WAS IT. It doesn't make that feat ANY CONSISTENT.

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#104 Posted by TrueAustralian (1186 posts) - - Show Bio

Devilman has movement speeds above mach 18,000 and reacted to a beam moving at 1.3 times light speed. His physicals are comparable to or slightly greater than Saitamas. Durability wise he doesn't fuck himself up with his own punches, so he's atleast durable enough to conduct that much energy through his body without harm (unlike say, 8th gate might guy), however he was losing limbs to attacks that blew the moon in half. Meanwhile Saitama has movement speed above mach 30,000, reacted to beings moving at mach 1400 minimum. Has casual (according to Boros) physicals equal to or slightly less than Devilmans. Durability to withstand conducting the energy of his attacks through his body (like Akira), and withstand contact with energy attacks capable of razing earths surface and or busting the planet (dependent upon anime or manga canon).

Seemingly they have similar physicals, similar durability (edging toward Saitama) and similar movement speed (reactions wildly favoring Devilman). Since BFR is disallowed, whoever can hold their breath longest will win.

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#105 Edited by Cable_Extreme (16791 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone said:

@cable_extreme: When I was talking about the author said feat, I was talking about the punching through the planet feat, not the boros feat. Sorry if I didn't' make it clear.

When I said - "I agree that this is an ACTUAL feat" - I was talking about the boros feat. Again, sorry for the misunderstanding.

Now I am solely talking about the boros feat:

Stop talking about limits here. Limit means Saitama has potential to grow, that doesn't make an outlier a consistent feat. I already went over this with you.

The author's statement about Boros shows that he was a high-level opponent. THAT WAS IT. It doesn't make that feat ANY CONSISTENT.

Onesensei said that Boros was a god-level threat. His power-level is confirmed by the ranking of each threat. This is a clear indication he intended Saitama to fight a god tier threat and defeat him while also making it explicitly known that he still wasn't trying.

You argue it isn't consistent for Saitama even though all previous fights he ended in one punch.... There is no consistency other than everything he did previously was far too easy.

Q) When Saitama always finishes off enemies in one punch it's really exhilarating and feels good, but on the other hand, isn't it hard to make a new kind of development that still ends in the punch every time? Is there something that you keep in mind when you're creating these plots?

ONE: To be honest, I never actually thought this was hard..... It was when someone else pointed this out to me when I realized for the first time, "Is this setting too hard for me to continue with?" But in the end, even to this day I hadn't thought that writing the plot was hard. Thinking of a plot that involved a lot of thinking and cleverness for the main character to get over any obstacle requires a lot of experience and knowledge, so I think it's a bit too hard for me. In Saitama's case, all I have to do is have him show up to punch the problem away so I don't have to think too much about it. In the world Saitama lives in, monsters show up frequently, so he gets to utilize his strength to the fullest, so I can feel comfortable making my plot. If anything happens, I can always count on Saitama.Link

Another quote showing his intent. You are arguing against an On-Panel feat that is backed by multiple statements from the creator stating things such as Boros is a god-level threat, and that he can always count on Saitama to punch the problems away. You have nothing

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#106 Edited by TheOriginalOne (4107 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: Yes, those fights ended with one punch but none of those opponents were planet level. As I said before - outlier. Rea[pting that ONE said Boros was God level proves nothing here. I never denied he wasn't god level.

Again, THAT IS A STATEMENT. IT IS NOT AN ACTUAL FEAT. What do you not understand here? You actually have nothing but statements. I keep asking for consistent planet surface level feats and I keep getting statements. What is so hard for you to understand here?

In debates, we use FEATS not author STATEMENTS OF UPCOMING FEATS.

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#107 Posted by pmcinelly784 (1133 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, those fights ended with one punch but none of those opponents were planet level. As I said before - outlier. Rea[pting that ONE said Boros was God level proves nothing here. I never denied he wasn't god level.

I believe Boros was a planet buster. It says in the manga that Boros' final attack would have destroyed the surface of the earth and the anime calls his final attack a planet buster, but if you look at the translated Databook for the manga, it specifically describes it as an attack that can destroy the planet. It looks like the term he uses can mean either to shave the planet or destroy it, but the description says destroy, thus clarifying the intent.

Loading Video...

(skip to 3 minutes for the world buster attack)

Again, THAT IS A STATEMENT. IT IS NOT AN ACTUAL FEAT. What do you not understand here? You actually have nothing but statements. I keep asking for consistent planet surface level feats and I keep getting statements. What is so hard for you to understand here?

I would actually consider the hole through the moon a valid saitama feat, even though it hasn't happened yet. It is a confirmed event that happens by the author, even though we haven't gotten to it in the timeline. Even if you don't accept this power feat, you have to accept the fact that he really casually beat boros, a planet buster.

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#108 Posted by TheOriginalOne (4107 posts) - - Show Bio

@pmcinelly784: The manga says it was ONLY surface level. So no, Boros wasn't a planet buster. The anime, in that instance, is non canon as it changed things.

You can consider the punching through a planet thing valid, that doesn't mean we consider it valid on vine. On vine, we need ON PANEL PROOF, not statements.

That cover art might become a feat later on but as of now, it IS JUST A COVER ART. Nothing else.

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#109 Edited by pmcinelly784 (1133 posts) - - Show Bio

The manga says it was ONLY surface level. So no, Boros wasn't a planet buster. The anime, in that instance, is non canon as it changed things.

The manga was incorrectly translated. The actual Japanese page reads "I'll release all of my power to erase you together with this planet" if you translate it in the correct context. (this is a small detail that not a lot of people know (apparently a lot of people on this website xD))

You can consider the punching through a planet thing valid, that doesn't mean we consider it valid on vine. On vine, we need ON PANEL PROOF, not statements.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind, I'm relatively new so thanks. I've provided the proof in the manga (the author's detailed description of the star cannon move that is a planet buster move in the databook). I could also look for the untranslated manga proof if you'd like but I hope you'll take my word for it.

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#110 Posted by Cable_Extreme (16791 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: Yes, those fights ended with one punch but none of those opponents were planet level. As I said before - outlier. Rea[pting that ONE said Boros was God level proves nothing here. I never denied he wasn't god level.

Again, THAT IS A STATEMENT. IT IS NOT AN ACTUAL FEAT. What do you not understand here? You actually have nothing but statements. I keep asking for consistent planet surface level feats and I keep getting statements. What is so hard for you to understand here?

In debates, we use FEATS not author STATEMENTS OF UPCOMING FEATS.

WHY ARE YOU STILL REFERENCING THE OTHER FEAT? I told you in my firstt reply to you, that you don't have to accept the (hole in the planet one), I haven't referenced that since my first post on this thread. Everything I have said has been about the Boros feat and proving it is valid.

I keep asking for consistent planet surface level feats and I keep getting statements.

No Caption Provided

You have a feat here. As well as the supporting statements from ONE Sensei.

Here is another statement from Boros himself.

No Caption Provided

Here is a quote from ONE Sensei proving he was a God-level threat

Question: What was the disaster level of Boros?

ONE-sensei's answer: Above Dragon...

Link

Not only was it in the manga, but the feat also happened in the web comic (an even more cannon source) that is more inline with the anime with the name of the blast than with the manga.

No Caption Provided

No Caption Provided

As well as the webcomic part where Boros again said Saitama didn't even try.

No Caption Provided

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#111 Edited by pmcinelly784 (1133 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone:

This was released in a guide that was released with the blu ray version of the One Punch Man anime, called One Punch Man Compus, which features a bunch of stuff from ONE and Murata.

Boros is the Leader of Dark Matter... Boros himself boasts abnormally superior physical attributes even for his species, along with latent energy so powerful that he can blast away entire planets
Boros is the Leader of Dark Matter... Boros himself boasts abnormally superior physical attributes even for his species, along with latent energy so powerful that he can blast away entire planets

So this should prove to you that he is planet level BUT there's more.

Boros's ultimate
Boros's ultimate "Collapsing Star, Roaring Cannon," which is formidable enough to obliterate a star

So Boros's final move is actually a Star Buster move according to the creators of the anime. (the things you learn with research)

Saitama managed to punch through a Star Buster move, wipe out Boros (nullifying his insane healing factor entirely), and create a continent-sized gap in the upper atmosphere.

He wins.

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#112 Posted by TheOriginalOne (4107 posts) - - Show Bio

@pmcinelly784: So the manga says planet surface level and this says planet level? That alone makes this feat unusable. As i said, the manga always comes first in these cases and it said planet surface level so we go by that.

Star Buster? DO you actually believe this garbage? If the anime changes things from the manga, IT BECOMES FILLER/ NON-CANON. Please stop with this Star level garbage.

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#113 Posted by TheOriginalOne (4107 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: I was referencing it because I thought you kept talking about it. Anyway, sorry about that misunderstanding.

Stop posting what One said. I never denied what he said. HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU THIS? Have you ACTUALLY been reading what I have been typing? Every scan you posted COMES FROM ONLY ONE FEAT. I have never denied this Boros feat is an hyperbole, I said it wasn't consistent. And your scans exactly prove what I have been saying - YOU HAVE NOTHING.

Trying/Not trying is not the point. This feat not being consistent is my point.

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#114 Edited by Cable_Extreme (16791 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone: so you are going to look at multiple scans and multiple quotes from the creator and say I have nothing? You havs the most biased argument out of any user I have met on this site. Not once have you provided anything to support your arguement. You just keep saying “the feat isn’t consistent” after I have already proven that the consistency found in One Punch Man ramped up as he kept facing higher and higher disaster levels while still ending them in one punch. They were consistently too easy for Saitama, so you cannot say the last feat was inconsistent as it was still too easy for him.

Not only that but it was the first Time we saw his series series: serious punch so you can not argue about consistency. You are the one who has nothing.

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#115 Edited by thelocust619 (7854 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone: Just pointing out, what makes something an outlier is if it contradicts something else. That's what people mean by "inconsistent" in regards to that. Simply having one showing isn't inconsistent if it doesn't contradict anything else...it's setting the bar.

Ex: Saitama never showed an upper limit, so he has nothing to contradict his ability to perform his higher feats. Not an outlier.

Ex2: Master Roshi blew up the moon when far stronger characters can't comprehend a planet-warping explosion. Outlier.

Ex3: Naruto just enters a featless new form and dodges light. Not an outlier, the new form was not comparable to weaker forms and had no feats to contradict it.

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#116 Posted by TheOriginalOne (4107 posts) - - Show Bio

@thelocust619: Actually having one high-end feat while all your other feats showcased in the manga are continental level at best DOES mean that it is an outlier.

Saitama having not shown any limit doesn't mean we overlook consistent feats. Hulk also hasn't shown a limit, even as savage hulk but I won't say he can beat Galactus. As I have said before, having nit shown a limit shows that a character CAN GROW.

The Naruto feat was an outlier because he didn't deal with anything LS or close to that after that light beam. He literally ONLY HAS 1 LS speed feat and that was done using his precog as well. Not to mention that feat is highly debatable about how he dodged it because the anime and manga contradict each other.

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#117 Edited by thelocust619 (7854 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone: If those prior feats didn't express any kind of limit, then it's an entirely reasonable fact that he's capable of more than just those prior feats. Instead, it was established that he's perpetually holding back (which is basically the entire plot of OPM). Therefore, having a feat that exceeds them isn't an outlier.

Hulk hasn't done anything on Galactus's level, so the comparison is null. Saitama actually has a feat above most of his others, and nothing contradicts it. It fits the narrative because none of those other feats showcased any kind of limit that renders his high feats unreasonable. In fact, it was established he even held back there as well, meaning he's open for even better feats later on if ONE/Murata so choose.

I didn't say it was a lightspeed feat...the beam moved much farther than Naruto did in the same time, so light is obviously faster. I said he dodged the beam, like...at all. The form was brand new, so it had nothing to contradict any kind of feat Kishi chose to give him. That feat was one of his establishing feats, a debute, so it literally can't be an outlier...there was nothing else to compare it to.

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#118 Posted by TheOriginalOne (4107 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: Multiple quotes about ONE FEAT that I have never denied. All it tells me that Boros was a God level threat and Saitama beat him easily. I already know this. That still doesn't MAKE IT CONSISTENT as a feat. How many times do I have to tell you this?

What proof do I have to bring? You already know all of Saitama feat and you know yourself that he doesn't have a single feat of that caliber other than that Boros feat. You want this outlier to be consistent so bad you are not even TRYING to understand what I am saying.

He faced only ONE God level threat, all the other were dragon level. Dragon is nowhere CLOSE TO PLANET LEVEL. Just because this is the first time we saw this serious series doesn't make it consistent. In fact, he used his serious punch against elder centipede as well so if it was surface level, why didn't the earth surface get blown away?

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#119 Edited by TheOriginalOne (4107 posts) - - Show Bio

@thelocust619: I know he has been holding back and I know he can do more than showcased. But that is not how debating works here. We used feats. Saying HE CAN do something is not the same as HIM HAVING DONE IT. As of now, all you have is statements about him being able to do it later on.

That is still his feat. According to you, that is all it takes - one feat. Not to mention since hulk is limitless as well, that feat should be usable. Saitama also hasn't done anything planet surface level except for this one feat. Hulk also hasn't done anything on Galactus level except for that one feat. How is it null? Because you don't like it?

And did you know, that feat was done by one of, if not THE weakest Hulk of all time. After that point, he has only gotten stronger.

Yes, now you are getting it. He is open to similar and even better feats. But as one now, that ONE feat is still an outlier.

Again, you are not getting it. Using as strong feat as a starter is fine but you need to build on that. If a writer gives spiderman the strength to lift a 100 tons in the beginning of his power up but consistently portrays his as 15 tonner, that 100-ton feat becomes an outlier. This is what happened with Naruto. After that LS feat, which was done by precog as well if you didn't already know, he didn't showcase any similar reaction feats.

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#120 Edited by thelocust619 (7854 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone: You're misunderstanding. I wasn't argueing Saitama can do something he hasn't done...idk how u got that, but we can drop that whole part of your arguement. I was saying what he has done isn't an outlier because it doesn't contradict anything else he's done.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here... I'm not aware of Hulk having any Galactus level feats at all, which is why I said it's a null point...if he does, then we'd simply look at the context. As we are here. (How does it fit narratively, who wrote it, ect). In fact, already you revealed that it contradicts stronger versions of himself, so there you go. It's a contradiction, so it's an outlier. Saitama's feat doesn't contradict anything, so it's not an outlier.

Naruto, in that form, never got any other quantifiable speed feats to contradict it. I see where ur coming from, but you only have half the formula man. Yes, consistency matters as far as establishing something to contradict in the first place, but context matters just as much. You can't just ignore the context...to do so would be taking a feat out of context, which is just as wrong as using an outlier in the first place.

Just a reminder, this is an off topic conversation for now. Just trying to help clarify what does and doesn't count as an outlier.

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#121 Edited by azrael1973 (2970 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone said:

@pmcinelly784: So the manga says planet surface level and this says planet level? That alone makes this feat unusable. As i said, the manga always comes first in these cases and it said planet surface level so we go by that.

Star Buster? DO you actually believe this garbage? If the anime changes things from the manga, IT BECOMES FILLER/ NON-CANON. Please stop with this Star level garbage.

Loading Video...

It's not garbage. In Comicvine battles we use different versions of a character. So anime/composite Boros should still considered to be starlevel. As it has been stated in the official databook included in the limited Edition Blu ray. It has been almost a year already and there is no statement by viz that it's a mistranslation or any proof that it's a mistake by the official translator. The closest thing I could find was some guy who knows japanese and reads OPM said that he would translate hoshi as planet in this context , but even he said that the official translation is technically not wrong and the official translation is 'enough to obliterate a star' , like it or not.

In this battle it doesn't matter anyway. But Manga Boros should be planetary at least as there is another databook which states that his attack is planet busting. And this translation has been confirmed multiple times.

No Caption Provided

Anime Boros/Saitama Hoshi(star or planet) Buster

Manga Boros/Saitama Planetbuster

Webtoon Boros/Saitama Planet Surface Wiper

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#122 Posted by TheOriginalOne (4107 posts) - - Show Bio

@thelocust619: I am saying it is an outlier because he hasn't done anything of that caliber until now. Usually, a person gets better feats after his/her current feats but that is not the same with Saitama. All the other high-level opponents he has fought are dragon level at best. Now you can say this is because he hasn't fought anyone as strong as Boros yet and I agree but that still means the Boros feat is an outlier because all his other feats are much below that.

The context was that Galactus shot his beam as hulk and he straight up tanked it. And yes, it contradicts his stronger version because hulk has consistent feats. This is why you can it is a contradiction. Saitama doesn't have one other feat like this and thus, why can't it be an outlier? I am not saying the Saitama feat contradicts anything but he still doesn't have one other feat like that. Fighting only one God level threat and then only fighting dragon level that could mean that God level feat was an outlier.

What context am I missing behind Naruto? He dodged at LS but never showed that kind of reaction again. Especially when he was fighting someone who was stronger than anyone he had fought before. That screams that LS feat could have been an outlier.

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#123 Edited by TheOriginalOne (4107 posts) - - Show Bio

@azrael1973: The databook could be wrong as well because the manga stats it as surface level, not planet busting.

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#124 Edited by azrael1973 (2970 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone said:

@azrael1973: The databook could be wrong as well because the manga stats it as surface level, not planet busting.

The databook was published after the Boros fight and it does not really contradict the manga. It says the roaring cannon can destroy earth, but Boros didn't need to direct his attack to the planet core and just intended to wipe the planets surface including Saitama.

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#125 Edited by thelocust619 (7854 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone: I'm gonna be honest, I'm not following your logic at all. It looks like you're trying to say that your issue is that Saitama did not continue to operate at vs Boros levels...but you'd surely have to see how that immediately falls apart.... That would be ignoring a huge amount of context. His output has always consistently been 1. Below his actual max and 2. Dependent on the opponent and 3. He's actively trying NOT to one shot (most of) them. You brought up the direct counter to your arguement yourself, in that he literally had no reason to operate at that level before or after. I agree that punching a surface wiper is far above his other feats, but there is context clearly explaining the situation.

Lol I'll stop u there, I don't think ANY character with multiple writers is going to be truely consistent lol. But for real, it's that simple...an event occurred (hulk got stronger) that contradicted the feat in question (weaker hulk has a better feat). That's what makes it an outlier. I really don't see how Saitama fits here, as it's a completely different situation. Whether something is an outlier or not has literally nothing to do with how many times they did it. There's characters with only one feat, period, often off-panel universe creators...do you try to take that from them too under the exact same logic you're using now? (If you want to put a face to this point, how about Morgan Freeman Ghandi Hitler from Gantz...they have one feat of creating life at will. By your logic is that an outlier?)

We can neither prove or disprove that Naruto moved at those speeds again because he has no other quantifiable feats in that catagory. The number of feats is irrelevant. If we had a feat of Naruto getting outpaced by Ramen Guy or something, then sure, there'd be a case for an outlier, but as it stands we dont. (And trust me I've tried...if the topic were whether I think a feat is just dumb, you wouldn't think you were talking to the same person lol.)

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#126 Edited by Cable_Extreme (16791 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: Multiple quotes about ONE FEAT that I have never denied. All it tells me that Boros was a God level threat and Saitama beat him easily. I already know this. That still doesn't MAKE IT CONSISTENT as a feat. How many times do I have to tell you this?

What proof do I have to bring? You already know all of Saitama feat and you know yourself that he doesn't have a single feat of that caliber other than that Boros feat. You want this outlier to be consistent so bad you are not even TRYING to understand what I am saying.

He faced only ONE God level threat, all the other were dragon level. Dragon is nowhere CLOSE TO PLANET LEVEL. Just because this is the first time we saw this serious series doesn't make it consistent. In fact, he used his serious punch against elder centipede as well so if it was surface level, why didn't the earth surface get blown away?

You claim it isn't consistent? Based on what? Saitama never used Serious Series: Serious Punch until that point... All previous fights were One Punch victories, he is consistently too powerful for Dragon-level based on consistent feats. He then faced a God-level threat (Boros) and used a new skill, you can't claim it isn't consistent as his limit hasn't been established yet. Every single fight he has had has been to easy for him, to be inconsistent you would have to have him do something that is well beyond his established limits.

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#127 Posted by TheOriginalOne (4107 posts) - - Show Bio

@azrael1973: He said, on panel, that it would wipe the surface. That does not mean it could destroy the whole planet though.

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#128 Posted by TheOriginalOne (4107 posts) - - Show Bio

@thelocust619:My argument is that he doesn't have planet surface level feat except for that one feat. I know his output has been one but beating country level monster consistently with one punch and beating a God level threat with one punch are different things.

"I agree that punching a surface wiper is far above his other feats, but there is context clearly explaining the situation." This is what I a trying to get across. What context explaining the situation? if we compare all his feats, we see that, as of now, he is around continental level. Most of his feats are around 12 level and this Boros feat is at the other end. That is why I am say9ng, as of now, it is an outlier.

Why I brought hulk was because 1 user kept saying Saitama has no limits and thus this feat is valid. I said hulk has no limit as well but he does have created that are outliers. What I am trying to say is that until Saitama get more feats od this level, it is considered an outlier because all the other monster he faced are way below that level.

And that is why I said that Naruto feat was an outlier. Having only feat does not make something consistent. You said we can quantify it and I agree and that is why that LS feat can't be used in debated because we can never be sure if it was a one-time thing or if it was consistent.

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#129 Edited by Red_Leader (907 posts) - - Show Bio

Devilman is not a star buster needless to say he isn't Star+ like Saitama

need proof of that

Boros says that Saitama holds back in their fight and Saitama confirms this

so at biggest low-ball he used 50% of his power he still can bust 2 of the biggest stars with his serious punch

EDIT: we still don't know how much more powerful his DEATH or

No Caption Provided

this punch is

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#130 Posted by TheOriginalOne (4107 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: Using an attack the first time doesn't make it consistent. It is used as a feat to build upon. When luffy went Gear fourth, we saw what he could do. But Oda then build on that Gear fourth, using it consistently and making that form grow in power. Heck, we are now getting Snakeman. That is building on his power and giving it consistent feats.

One didn't build on Saitama's serious punch after that point. Infact, when we saw it used again in the manga, it was nowhere near that level of power. If it was, it would have not only killed Elder centipede but taken away most of the surface as well. Why didn't it?

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#131 Edited by azrael1973 (2970 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone said:

@azrael1973: He said, on panel, that it would wipe the surface. That does not mean it could destroy the whole planet though.

That's what the databook is good for. It's statement from the author (word of god) that the attack can destroy the planet. What Boros said is just a statement from a character.

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#132 Posted by TheOriginalOne (4107 posts) - - Show Bio

@azrael1973: Put that statement comes from the author himself. The author was describing the attack through Boros.

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#133 Edited by thelocust619 (7854 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone: Well yea, it is just the one feat...n let's specify it's the lowest end of planet level (arguably continental, when you start to ask things like "how deep into the surface are we talking here"). You dont have to convince me that it's in a completely different league than anything else he's done. And I'll go as far to say that in many situations, you would see this in outliers...but it's a symptom, not the cause. That's not what makes it an outlier, it just often accompanies them. In this case, we have specified context supporting Saitama's ability to do so, in that everything else he's done was vastly restrained. (< answer to ur question btw "what context explains the situation")

You want an OPM outlier? Tatsumaki's FTL meteor. It happened, but we've seen the limits of her ability later on in cases like the Monster Association battle and her vs Saitama, and it's clearly nowhere near summoning a freakin meteor. That's what makes it an outlier, nothing else. But you'll see...it only happened once, it's in a different league than anything else she's done, ect...but these are symptoms, not the cause. Contextually, she has fallen apart under doing far less...unlike Saitama, it doesn't support her. That's the difference.

Noone is...hold on, I'll ammend that...I'M not saying Saitama has no limits, nor that the fact that his limits haven't been shown is a "feat". It's not a feat, it is supporting evidence FOR a feat. That's why people keep bringing it up...not as a feat, but to explain an actual feat. Everything he's ever done on panel has been below his highest potential, it's a canon fact and a valid support for a reasonable arguement. Emphasizing "reasonable" like...so much right now.

No no lol what is this, guilty until proven innocent? If a series shows a feat, it's valid until proven invalid. I mean...that's basically what a story is, a collection of showings and feats...ignoring them soley for something arbitrary like the number of times it happened is like ignoring the story itself. The only issue comes when something blatently contradicts something else, anyone telling you otherwise was likely getting desperate in their arguement.

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#134 Edited by azrael1973 (2970 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone said:

@azrael1973: Put that statement comes from the author himself. The author was describing the attack through Boros.

But in that case he has to consider: 'What does Boros know, what is his intention, to whom is he talking to?' It might be a boast, a lie.

In the databook there is not such limitation. He is directly addressing the reader.

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#135 Posted by Cable_Extreme (16791 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: Using an attack the first time doesn't make it consistent. It is used as a feat to build upon. When luffy went Gear fourth, we saw what he could do. But Oda then build on that Gear fourth, using it consistently and making that form grow in power. Heck, we are now getting Snakeman. That is building on his power and giving it consistent feats.

One didn't build on Saitama's serious punch after that point. Infact, when we saw it used again in the manga, it was nowhere near that level of power. If it was, it would have not only killed Elder centipede but taken away most of the surface as well. Why didn't it?

Consistency only matters when another writer takes over, not the initial writer, he is the source of cannon.

If you read the manga with that you will know King was giving Saitama pointers in how to control and direct his power. For example he told him he would have to finish The Elder centipede off, but couldn't punch him hard enough to send him into the next town due to collateral.

No Caption Provided

Saitama specifically didn't hit him hard enough to send him flying into the city, but instead focused his serious punch in a way to destroy Elder Centipede while also having the specific mission not to create collateral damage. Read up on it next time.

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#136 Edited by TheOriginalOne (4107 posts) - - Show Bio

@thelocust619: Just because he has the ability to do so does not make it any less consistent though. I am not denying Saitama ability to do it, I am saying in a debate like this, we can't use it because he hasn't shown anything like it before. Again, it is not about holding back, it is about him using it again or doing it a number of times to make it consistent.

The tatsumaki thing happened only in the anime and is filler. Why even mention a filler? Have you actually read the manga?

No, him having shown no limits is NOT A FEAT, it says that he has room to grow. Hulk also has no limit which is why Pak was able to do what he did with wwh/wbh. No limit means he can grow.

What do you mean guilty until proven innocent? How does that apply here? Naruto showed that LS feat on;y once and never again. You even said his other feats are not quantifiable so how can tell that feat is valid? You want consistency - his DC, durability, healing factor, etc etc. We have seen feats for all of this over and over so no one can say they are inconsistent. But this LS feat was only done once and never again. How can you not put 1 and 1 together here?

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#137 Posted by TheOriginalOne (4107 posts) - - Show Bio

@azrael1973: He was going to kill Saitama as it was his last resort. Why would he lie? And boros was a prideful person so I don't see why he would lie.

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#138 Edited by TheOriginalOne (4107 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: Lol, when he said he can't send elder centiped flying, he was telling him to hit him with a strong enough punch to end him there. That means Saitama did hit him hard enough and that proof is shown when he DID A SERIOUS PUCH. We have seen Saitama normal punches send people flying and you are telling me his serious punch won't do that?

What?

Saitama actually used a more concentrated punch to make sure he obliterated Elder Centipede instantly. That was the only way EC wouldn't have been sent flying.

How did you not get this?

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#139 Edited by azrael1973 (2970 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone said:

@azrael1973: He was going to kill Saitama as it was his last resort. Why would he lie? And boros was a prideful person so I don't see why he would lie.

I was just saying that a statement by a character could be a lie, not that it was one. In that case I don't think it was one either.

He wanted Saitama to despair, as he thought announcing a planet wiping attack was enough to do so and he didn't intent to destroy the planet.

Still word of god >> any characters statement.

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#140 Edited by TheOriginalOne (4107 posts) - - Show Bio

@azrael1973: He was going to surface wipe it, he didn't care about anything who lived on it. And you keep forgetting, One was the one who wrote that so technically, it was still the word of god. It was just through a character.

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#141 Edited by thelocust619 (7854 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone: If you wanna get super technical...no punch of his is consistent. He's gone from wall to city to building to mountain range and back to wall level (not in any order). The only difference here is that this one has a greater variation than the rest...but it also has context explaining exactly why this is possible. I get the "debate rules" angle you're trying to take...but it's just wrong. Nothing enforces what you're saying at all, it's not a rule or how we do things here.

The meteor with Tatsumaki actually happened in the manga. It was literally a one panel gag, but got vastly extended in the anime.

(On having no shown limit)...I said it's not a feat. I said it's supporting evidence. Stop yelling at me :( But no he actually can't grow. That's literally his problem. What he can do is get better feats that apply to him during pretty much any arc, because he specifically doesn't change lol.

"Guilty until proven innocent" was a joke about how you're treating a feat as invalid until proven valid. That's just plain wrong. It's the other way around. Naruto's other feats being unquantifiable means those feats are unquantifiable. The one speed feat simply gives us an idea of a general range, because noone can argue he isn't capable of that...he did it and nothing disputes it contextually. Done. I get that you're like super psyched about consistency...but you're being overly meticulous. That can't be fun for you...

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#142 Posted by TheOriginalOne (4107 posts) - - Show Bio

@thelocust619: Well that is true but most monsters he has faced, even in the webcomic are consistent to a degree. Most are country to continental level so thaty is where I rank him off. Actually, on vine, we use consistent feats. That is why stupid high ends feats are not used.

The meteor feat happened in episode 10 of the anime when she fought the Ancient king. It did not happen in the manga or webcomic. If I am wrong, can you please post a scan?

When I said "grow", I meant in feats. Meaning he will get better feats.

That one-speed feat is an extreme outlier though. What is so hard to understand? They went from massively hypersonic to damn LS level. That power gap needs to be explained properly or it is regarded an outlier. If Naruto was consistently city level but after this powerups, he went planet level, that feat needs to be properly explained and showed on a consistent basis or it is regarded outlier.

It is not about fun, it is about having proper debates. If we don't, anyone can use high ends feats to support their arguments and that destroys the debate.

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#143 Edited by azrael1973 (2970 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone said:

@azrael1973: He was going to surface wipe it, he didn't care about anything who lived on it. And you keep forgetting, One was the one who wrote that so technically, it was still the word of god. It was just through a character.

No it's not word of god. Let's say you are writing a story. Then you will have to consider each time when you let the characters talk, what they know and what their intentions are. You are not free to address the readers in the story. You can reveal yourself as the allknowing 'god' when you are outside of the story. And that's why there is something like a databook.

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#144 Posted by Cable_Extreme (16791 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: Lol, when he said he can't send elder centiped flying, he was telling him to hit him with a strong enough punch to end him there. That means Saitama did hit him hard enough and that proof is shown when he DID A SERIOUS PUCH. We have seen Saitama normal punches send people flying and you are telling me his serious punch won't do that?

What?

Saitama actually used a more concentrated punch to make sure he obliterated Elder Centipede instantly. That was the only way EC wouldn't have been sent flying.

How did you not get this?

King was training Saitama to have more control, it is apparent you haven't read the manga.

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#145 Edited by thelocust619 (7854 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone: "Actually, on vine, we use consistent feats. That is why stupid high ends feats are not used."

1. No

2. Have you seen our post counts? You don't tell me how it is here lol

Posting that scan would require reading one or both manga in their entirety to find them, as it could be in virtually any chapter. So no. Also pretty weak to call a scan check for a sub-point...can you stay on topic? You dont even have to believe me, whether it's filler or not is irrelevant to the conversation.

It's not an outlier lol. The power jump from previous forms doesn't matter because it's a new form with its own new feats. This:

"That power gap needs to be explained properly or it is regarded an outlier."

Is plain wrong. It doesn't even need a counter. Countless facts go unexplained in fiction, good luck with that attitude rooky. This:

"that feat needs to be properly explained and showed on a consistent basis or it is regarded outlier."

Also wrong, and literally noone has to listen to you and thankfully, we're not all so meticulous here.

We're about done now. It's becoming clear you don't want to learn anything, so good luck n all.

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#146 Posted by TheOriginalOne (4107 posts) - - Show Bio

@thelocust619: What does post count have to do with anything? Someone can be here long and not debate often but rather follow debates. It that too hard for you to understand?

And yes, on vines, we do use consistent feats. Otherwise, feats like hulk surviving Galactus's blast, punching through a time storm (twice in fact), pushing so hard that he broke the time barrier and my favorites, destroyed nightcrawlers entire dimension with a single thunderclap, would be applicable in every debate.

So you claim something but can't back it up? hmmmm, no wonder you don't understand how debates work on vine.

Countless facts that go unexplained and are not easily accepted who have the ability to think.You have a high post count but you don't even know this. Hmmmm.

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#147 Posted by thelocust619 (7854 posts) - - Show Bio
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#148 Posted by TheOriginalOne (4107 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: He was guiding Saitama yes, I didn't deny that but to make sure that EC didn't fly into the city, Saitama HAD to use a strong punch to obliterate it. He couldn't have used a normal pich because whenever he does, we have seen that sometimes, the victim flies away. That was shown with Gouketsu when Saitama killed him far away and his head landed at the martial tournament arena, next to suriyu.

That is why he had to use a more concentrated punch to kill EC because first, he had to prevent EC from flying away into the city and second, he has less space so he couldn't do his normal punches. Even King says that in YOUR OWN scan. Meaning, he used a more powerful punch to end it.

It is clear you sometimes don't understand what you read.

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#149 Posted by Cable_Extreme (16791 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone: If you wanna get super technical...no punch of his is consistent. He's gone from wall to city to building to mountain range and back to wall level (not in any order). The only difference here is that this one has a greater variation than the rest...but it also has context explaining exactly why this is possible. I get the "debate rules" angle you're trying to take...but it's just wrong. Nothing enforces what you're saying at all, it's not a rule or how we do things here.

The meteor with Tatsumaki actually happened in the manga. It was literally a one panel gag, but got vastly extended in the anime.

(On having no shown limit)...I said it's not a feat. I said it's supporting evidence. Stop yelling at me :( But no he actually can't grow. That's literally his problem. What he can do is get better feats that apply to him during pretty much any arc, because he specifically doesn't change lol.

"Guilty until proven innocent" was a joke about how you're treating a feat as invalid until proven valid. That's just plain wrong. It's the other way around. Naruto's other feats being unquantifiable means those feats are unquantifiable. The one speed feat simply gives us an idea of a general range, because noone can argue he isn't capable of that...he did it and nothing disputes it contextually. Done. I get that you're like super psyched about consistency...but you're being overly meticulous. That can't be fun for you...

Well said

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#150 Posted by Cable_Extreme (16791 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: He was guiding Saitama yes, I didn't deny that but to make sure that EC didn't fly into the city, Saitama HAD to use a strong punch to obliterate it. He couldn't have used a normal pich because whenever he does, we have seen that sometimes, the victim flies away. That was shown with Gouketsu when Saitama killed him far away and his head landed at the martial tournament arena, next to suriyu.

That is why he had to use a more concentrated punch to kill EC because first, he had to prevent EC from flying away into the city and second, he has less space so he couldn't do his normal punches. Even King says that in YOUR OWN scan. Meaning, he used a more powerful punch to end it.

It is clear you sometimes don't understand what you read.

You don't follow your points to their conclusion.

You first said that Saitama didn't achieve the same level of destruction with his Serious Series: Serious Punch when he fought the Elder Centipede as he did against Boros.

I then pointed out it was because of his training with King to focus his power in a way it doesn't cause collateral casualties. I even presented the relevant scan.

You then drop the point and start going on defensive arguing something that is completely different than your initial point.