One Piece mid-tiers vs Bleach mid-tiers

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Blueshoecant

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Current Luffy, Sabo, Marco, Katakuri, Doflamingo, Trafalgar Law, Zoro, Sanji, Bartholomew Kuma, Boa Hancock and Jinbe

Shikai Byakuya, Bankai Renji, Toshiro Hitsugaya, Shikai Kenpachi without an eyepatch, Shikai Shinji, Ulquiorra, Nnoitra, Grimmjow and Soifon

All-out battle

No prep

In-character but serious

Sanji gets his raid suit, Zoro has Enma

Both sides have knowledge

Perfect teamwork

Ulq starts in his second form

Location: Mariejois 50 meters apart

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the_alchemist01

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@blueshoecant: Everyone here with the exception of Soifon, Nnoitra, Ulqiourra and Grimmjow are undoubtedly high tiers. How is Current luffy mid tier?? Or Shikai Kenny??

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Sup3rn0va

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#3 Sup3rn0va  Online

Confused on how Kenpachi doesn't solo

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Yray

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Confused on how Kenpachi doesn't solo

They are alot of variables to consider here,same case can be made for law soloing via room same as Hancock with slave arrow and current luffy can oneshot everyone here with new Haki while avoiding alot of hax and attacks via future sight

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Sup3rn0va

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#5 Sup3rn0va  Online

@yray said:
@sup3rn0va said:

Confused on how Kenpachi doesn't solo

They are alot of variables to consider here,same case can be made for law soloing via room same as Hancock with slave arrow and current luffy can oneshot everyone here with new Haki while avoiding alot of hax and attacks via future sight

Everybody you just listed is far too slow

Kenpachi scales to slightly below god tiers like Yhwach and Mimihagi in speed, that at bare minimum makes him relativistic.

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Adam2

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Relativistic Kenny 😂😂😂

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Sup3rn0va

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#7 Sup3rn0va  Online

@adam2 said:

Relativistic Kenny 😂😂😂

Cant prove me wrong 😂😂😂

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SkySanji

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@sup3rn0va: That’s not how it works that’s like me saying Toshiro or Byakuya are physically on par With Shikai Kenny and can replicate his meteor feat by smacking their Shikai against said meteor.

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Sup3rn0va

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#9  Edited By Sup3rn0va  Online

@skysanji said:

@sup3rn0va: That’s not how it works that’s like me saying Toshiro or Byakuya are physically on par With Shikai Kenny and can replicate his meteor feat by smacking their Shikai against said meteor.

That is how it works.

Your comparison is faulty because Kenpachi's Shikai entire ability is giving him insane cutting power.

Kenpachi has never had issues keeping up with anyone, so this idea that he's just a slow brick is ridiculous.

He is directly below God Tier in Bleach, I don't see the issue with scaling him to that level when you're fine with scaling people like Whitebeard to G4 Luffy in speed.

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Yray

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@yray said:
@sup3rn0va said:

Confused on how Kenpachi doesn't solo

They are alot of variables to consider here,same case can be made for law soloing via room same as Hancock with slave arrow and current luffy can oneshot everyone here with new Haki while avoiding alot of hax and attacks via future sight

Everybody you just listed is far too slow

Kenpachi scales to slightly below god tiers like Yhwach and Mimihagi in speed, that at bare minimum makes him relativistic.

Yawach him self is at relativistic no way shikai Kenny is in the same ballpark as yawach

Plus Even if we go with your "relativistic Kenny" he almost never blitz in character and loves to tank attacks since he can't help being cocky and on the other hand law always opens an attack with room slash

Kenny ain't soloing

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Sup3rn0va

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#11 Sup3rn0va  Online

@yray said:
@sup3rn0va said:
@yray said:
@sup3rn0va said:

Confused on how Kenpachi doesn't solo

They are alot of variables to consider here,same case can be made for law soloing via room same as Hancock with slave arrow and current luffy can oneshot everyone here with new Haki while avoiding alot of hax and attacks via future sight

Everybody you just listed is far too slow

Kenpachi scales to slightly below god tiers like Yhwach and Mimihagi in speed, that at bare minimum makes him relativistic.

Yawach him self is at relativistic no way shikai Kenny is in the same ballpark as yawach

Yhwach in his weakest form is above Relativistic lol

Plus Even if we go with your "relativistic Kenny" he almost never blitz in character and loves to tank attacks since he can't help being cocky and on the other hand law always opens an attack with room slash

Chances law is going to use room and slash Kenpachi whilst ignoring all 8 of the other characters? Lets also just ignore the fact that Law is infinitely more likely to go CQC with Kenpachi before even using a room slash.

Kenny ain't soloing

Meh, he might not solo but he can take most of these guys himself.

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SkySanji

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#12  Edited By SkySanji

@sup3rn0va said:
@skysanji said:

@sup3rn0va: That’s not how it works that’s like me saying Toshiro or Byakuya are physically on par With Shikai Kenny and can replicate his meteor feat by smacking their Shikai against said meteor.

That is how it works.

no it isn’t

Your comparison is faulty because Kenpachi's Shikai entire ability is giving him insane cutting power.

Which is attributed to his insane physical strength.

Kenpachi has never had issues keeping up with anyone, so this idea that he's just a slow brick is ridiculous.

The characters he fought weren’t fast in the slightest.

We have Unohana who has no notable speed feats We have Gremmy who has no speed feats and Gerard who is a giant Brick, Kenpachi even got wrecked by Pernida the same guy Mayuri who does nothing but sit in an office with the use of hirenkakyu boots beat.

He is directly below God Tier in Bleach, I don't see the issue with scaling him to that level when you're fine with scaling people like Whitebeard to G4 Luffy in speed.

I don’t see why Scaling Whitebeard to Gear 4 Luffy in speed is a problem when we see Kaidou Casually lolblitz Gear 4 Luffy from a seated position.

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Sup3rn0va

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#13  Edited By Sup3rn0va  Online

@skysanji said:
@sup3rn0va said:
@skysanji said:

@sup3rn0va: That’s not how it works that’s like me saying Toshiro or Byakuya are physically on par With Shikai Kenny and can replicate his meteor feat by smacking their Shikai against said meteor.

That is how it works.

no it isn’t

Yes it is

Your comparison is faulty because Kenpachi's Shikai entire ability is giving him insane cutting power.

Which is attributed to his insane physical strength.

My argument was that, just because Kenpachi can cut that meteor doesn't automatically mean other captains can, especially since his Shikai's ability is to give him insane cutting ability which none of the other guys Shikai's does, atleast on that level.

Kenpachi has never had issues keeping up with anyone, so this idea that he's just a slow brick is ridiculous.

The characters he fought weren’t fast in the slightest.

Gerard? He was fighting like 3 of the strongest captains on his own.

We have Unohana who has no notable speed feats We have Gremmy who has no speed feats and Gerard who is a giant Brick, Kenpachi even got wrecked by Pernida.

Gremmy scales to the other Elites like Lille and Askin, Pernida would scale to Mimihagi since they're both essentially the same thing. I'm doing exactly what you're doing with Whitebeard and Kaido but for some reason you're saying it's wrong lol.

He is directly below God Tier in Bleach, I don't see the issue with scaling him to that level when you're fine with scaling people like Whitebeard to G4 Luffy in speed.

I don’t see why Scaling Whitebeard to Gear 4 Luffy in speed is a problem when we see Kaidou Casually lolblitz Gear 4 Luffy from a seated position.

Whitebeard is old, sick, and has no notable speed feats on that level. His best speed feat is interrupting Kizaru before the latter could fully transform into light.

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Adam2

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Lmao relativistic Kenny 😂😂😂

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Sup3rn0va

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#15 Sup3rn0va  Online

@adam2 said:

Lmao relativistic Kenny 😂😂😂

Hey man, I've seen people say Kaido is FTL.

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Adam2

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@sup3rn0va: that's even worse than what you said lol.

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SkySanji

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@skysanji said:
@sup3rn0va said:
@skysanji said:

@sup3rn0va: That’s not how it works that’s like me saying Toshiro or Byakuya are physically on par With Shikai Kenny and can replicate his meteor feat by smacking their Shikai against said meteor.

That is how it works.

no it isn’t

Yes it is

Your comparison is faulty because Kenpachi's Shikai entire ability is giving him insane cutting power.

Which is attributed to his insane physical strength.

My argument was that, just because Kenpachi can cut that meteor doesn't automatically mean other captains can, especially since his Shikai's ability is to give him insane cutting ability which none of the other guys Shikai's does, atleast on that level.

So you concede the arguement? All I’m seeing is an option select “just because Kenoachi can do It doesn’t mean other captains can” same way just because Yhwach and other characters have relativistic speed feats doesn’t mean Kenpachi scales or can replicate it.

Kenpachi has never had issues keeping up with anyone, so this idea that he's just a slow brick is ridiculous.

The characters he fought weren’t fast in the slightest.

Gerard? He was fighting like 3 of the strongest captains on his own.

I guess Doomsday is a fast a the Flash since he fought Flash along with the other members of the justice league.

We have Unohana who has no notable speed feats We have Gremmy who has no speed feats and Gerard who is a giant Brick, Kenpachi even got wrecked by Pernida.

Gremmy scales to the other Elites like Lille and Askin, Pernida would scale to Mimihagi since they're both essentially the same thing. I'm doing exactly what you're doing with Whitebeard and Kaido but for some reason you're saying it's wrong lol.

Lille is the captain of the Elites and Shunsui was doing just fine evading his attacks in just Shikai

So Mayuri who stated he’s been doing nothing but sitting in his office and Nemu is relativistic now?

you aren’t doing the same thing I’m doing.....Whitebeard is stated to be the strongest pirate, Kaidou who is weaker than him blitzed a Gear 4 Luffy casually meaning Whitebeard can do the same unless you think Kaidou would blitz Whitebeard meanwhile your saying all elites scale to each other in speed which makes no sense since Lille is the strongest out of them, Mimhagi has a travel speed,Pernida got beat by someone who states his been sitting in an office all day and his assistant, and a Giant Brick that was struggling against a Bankai Toshiro who had no Royal guard training like Byakuya.

He is directly below God Tier in Bleach, I don't see the issue with scaling him to that level when you're fine with scaling people like Whitebeard to G4 Luffy in speed.

I don’t see why Scaling Whitebeard to Gear 4 Luffy in speed is a problem when we see Kaidou Casually lolblitz Gear 4 Luffy from a seated position.

Whitebeard is old, sick, and has no notable speed feats on that level. His best speed feat is interrupting Kizaru before the latter could fully transform into light.

He bybassed Akainus Observation Haki thats all I have to say.

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Earendill

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#18  Edited By Earendill

Zaraki is very strong, but Byakuya, Soifon, Nnoitra etc. are weak. Also OP team is more crowded. I'm going for now with that OP team.

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grappolo

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Many of These guys are not mid tiers thought

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Sup3rn0va

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#20 Sup3rn0va  Online

@skysanji said:
@sup3rn0va said:
@skysanji said:
@sup3rn0va said:
@skysanji said:

@sup3rn0va: That’s not how it works that’s like me saying Toshiro or Byakuya are physically on par With Shikai Kenny and can replicate his meteor feat by smacking their Shikai against said meteor.

That is how it works.

no it isn’t

Yes it is

Your comparison is faulty because Kenpachi's Shikai entire ability is giving him insane cutting power.

Which is attributed to his insane physical strength.

My argument was that, just because Kenpachi can cut that meteor doesn't automatically mean other captains can, especially since his Shikai's ability is to give him insane cutting ability which none of the other guys Shikai's does, atleast on that level.

So you concede the arguement? All I’m seeing is an option select “just because Kenoachi can do It doesn’t mean other captains can” same way just because Yhwach and other characters have relativistic speed feats doesn’t mean Kenpachi scales or can replicate it.

Difference being, Yhwach and co don't have abilities exclusive to them that drastically increase their speed, whereas Kenpachi's Shikai uniquely drastically increases his cutting power, that's why your comparison is faulty.

Kenpachi has never had issues keeping up with anyone, so this idea that he's just a slow brick is ridiculous.

The characters he fought weren’t fast in the slightest.

Gerard? He was fighting like 3 of the strongest captains on his own.

I guess Doomsday is a fast a the Flash since he fought Flash along with the other members of the justice league.

Can't comment on that since I don't read comics.

We have Unohana who has no notable speed feats We have Gremmy who has no speed feats and Gerard who is a giant Brick, Kenpachi even got wrecked by Pernida.

Gremmy scales to the other Elites like Lille and Askin, Pernida would scale to Mimihagi since they're both essentially the same thing. I'm doing exactly what you're doing with Whitebeard and Kaido but for some reason you're saying it's wrong lol.

Lille is the captain of the Elites and Shunsui was doing just fine evading his attacks in just Shikai

Shunsui being the guy that has evaded multiple of Lille's stated Light based attacks.

So Mayuri who stated he’s been doing nothing but sitting in his office and Nemu is relativistic now?

I never said it was consistent, but hey, you're fine with saying Whitebeard is as fast as Kaido even though he's old, sick and a brick. The double standards is disgusting.

Also, a fight with Mayuri is rarely ever a speed based fight, so this is kinda irrelevant.

you aren’t doing the same thing I’m doing.....

I am though, you're using Whitebeard's title/rank to scale him to Kaido.

Whitebeard is stated to be the strongest pirate

When he achieved that title is unknown, and there's nothing to say Kaido and Old Whitebeard ever fought. By feats thus far, Kaido would blitz and slap around Whitebeard (Which says a lot since Kaido has next to 0 feats)

, Kaidou who is weaker than him blitzed a Gear 4 Luffy casually meaning Whitebeard can do the same unless you think Kaidou would blitz Whitebeard

No evidence Kaido is weaker than him, I'd take feats over a vague title with unknown variables any day.

meanwhile your saying all elites scale to each other in speed

Not exactly, they should be around the same tier speed wise.

which makes no sense since Lille is the strongest out of them, Mimhagi has a travel speed

Reaction speed somewhat correlates to travel speed, otherwise you'd just be running into everything.

,Pernida got beat by someone who states his been sitting in an office all day and his assistant, and a Giant Brick that was struggling against a Bankai Toshiro who had no Royal guard training like Byakuya.

Again, Pernida vs Mayuri wasn't really a speed fight, Mayuri is extremely intelligent and has equipment that makes up for his lack of stats.

He is directly below God Tier in Bleach, I don't see the issue with scaling him to that level when you're fine with scaling people like Whitebeard to G4 Luffy in speed.

I don’t see why Scaling Whitebeard to Gear 4 Luffy in speed is a problem when we see Kaidou Casually lolblitz Gear 4 Luffy from a seated position.

Whitebeard is old, sick, and has no notable speed feats on that level. His best speed feat is interrupting Kizaru before the latter could fully transform into light.

He bybassed Akainus Observation Haki thats all I have to say.

A sneak attack, you're unable to prove Akainu was using CoO there, it was explained in Luffy vs Katakuri fight that you have to be focused which Akainu clearly wasn't.

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the_alchemist01

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Inb4 FTL Bleach mid tiers, Country level Ulq, and my favorite Multiversal Kenny.

Bleach team takes it handily. A team of Kenny and Toshiro takes it tbh.

But no one solos

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utkanflash

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Kenpachi is not mid tier and after timeskip sanji is featless and also not in the same tier with those guys.

Thx to Law, Kuma and Marco OP team has more hax and negg options.

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Sup3rn0va

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#23  Edited By Sup3rn0va  Online

I forgot to say this but, Kenpachi destroyed that meteor with his Eye patch on, his increase from taking his eye patch off is ridiculous, he went from being trashed by Zangetsu aided Ichigo to fighting evenly with him.

Also, Kenpachi scales above Dangai Ichigo whom was vaporizing mountains with the air from clashing with Aizen, nobody on this list is tanking that.

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FaradaySloth

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#24  Edited By FaradaySloth

Some of these people aren't mid-tiers, but the Bleach team stomps hard. Shinji+Ulquiorra+Kenpachi alone can clean house in these conditions.

It's not surprising to see the same people not presenting any feats for the One Piece side that wouldn't suggest this not being a one sided slugfest.

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mevbi

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Inb4 FTL Bleach mid tiers, Country level Ulq, and my favorite Multiversal Kenny.

Bleach team takes it handily. A team of Kenny and Toshiro takes it tbh.

But no one solos

Multiversal Kenny is legit tho. Kenny>>Hashirama who is complex multiversal ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Sup3rn0va

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#26 Sup3rn0va  Online

^ lol

Honestly though, if this thread was Hashirama vs the OP team the majority would say Hashirama solos

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SkySanji

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#27  Edited By SkySanji

@sup3rn0va:

Dont want this page to be a quote on quote on quote so I’ll just go over what you said.

>Lilles attacks stated to be light speed is contradicted once we get to Yhwach in his Almighty state only being in the Relativistic tier in speed

>Shunsui evading Lilles attacks means nothing that’s a feat for him not Kenpachi as Lille is the strongest and the leader

> You are also going in circles with Your Kenpachi being fast just because he fought elites arguement saying “Kenpachi‘s Shikai drastically increases his cuttting power” which is an indirect concession as I’ve been saying he isn’t fast and more so a brick

>you again indirectly concede by saying “Hey I never said it was consistent“ when it pertains to a Mayuri who in his Fight with Zombie Toshiro stating hes been in his office all day all the time and his assistant Nemu beating Pernida Which is a clear cut example of why the Elite don’t scale in Speed on top of backtracking by saying a fight with Mayuri is hardly ever speed based

> You say I have double standards when it comes to a sick Whitebeard and Kaidou Being Bare minimum in the same ball park in speed which makes no sense since Sengoku literally still stated Whitebeard to be the strongest man in the world even while he was sick.

> You also tell me to prove Akainu was using CoO when we know it’s literally danger sensing and automatically goes off for example The monster trio All the way from Ryugyu palace where just chilling eating with Zoro even sleeping and they sensed Caribou from Kilometers away we don’t need a Katakuri red eye manga scan or Anime scene to know they are using it each and everytime.

Whitebeard indeed Bypassed Akainus CoO

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Sup3rn0va

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#28 Sup3rn0va  Online

@skysanji said:

@sup3rn0va:

Dont want this page to be a quote on quote on quote so I’ll just go over what you said.

>Lilles attacks stated to be light speed is contradicted once we get to Yhwach in his Almighty state only being in the Relativistic tier in speed

Not really, Yhwach not even in his strongest form is above Relativistic. Shunsui dodging Lille's attacks has been calced at around Relativistic, I see no contradiction here, Shunsui is just that strong and fast.

>Shunsui evading Lilles attacks means nothing that’s a feat for him not Kenpachi as Lille is the strongest and the leader

I don't see why they wouldn't scale to each other at least somewhat, I'm not saying Kenpachi is exactly as fast as Shunsui but they should be relative.

> You are also going in circles with Your Kenpachi being fast just because he fought elites arguement saying “Kenpachi‘s Shikai drastically increases his cuttting power” which is an indirect concession as I’ve been saying he isn’t fast and more so a brick

How is it a concession? I never once said Kenpachi's speed is due to his Shikai, he's just that speed in his base form.

>you again indirectly concede by saying “Hey I never said it was consistent“ when it pertains to a Mayuri who in his Fight with Zombie Toshiro stating hes been in his office all day all the time and his assistant Nemu beating Pernida Which is a clear cut example of why the Elite don’t scale in Speed on top of backtracking by saying a fight with Mayuri is hardly ever speed based

I don't really understand what you're talking about here, but from what I do understand, nothing you said explains why the Elites wouldn't scale to each other in speed in the same way you're scaling the Yonko's speed to each other.

> You say I have double standards when it comes to a sick Whitebeard and Kaidou Being Bare minimum in the same ball park in speed which makes no sense since Sengoku literally still stated Whitebeard to be the strongest man in the world even while he was sick.

Empty hype. Sengoku said this long before Whitebeard had even fought during the war, he might not have been aware of how weakened he had become due to age and sickness.

> You also tell me to prove Akainu was using CoO when we know it’s literally danger sensing and automatically goes off for example The monster trio All the way from Ryugyu palace where just chilling eating with Zoro even sleeping and they sensed Caribou from Kilometers away we don’t need a Katakuri red eye manga scan or Anime scene to know they are using it each and everytime.

No. It has been explained in the manga that CoO can only be utilized while you're in a calm state, regardless, lets say Whitebeard did move so fast that Akainu couldn't detect him with his CoO, you'd have to also agree that random marine fodder's eyesight >>>> Akainu's CoO since they had no problem perceiving Whitebeard and warning Akainu about him.

Whitebeard indeed Bypassed Akainus CoO

No.

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SkySanji

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@skysanji said:

@sup3rn0va:

Dont want this page to be a quote on quote on quote so I’ll just go over what you said.

>Lilles attacks stated to be light speed is contradicted once we get to Yhwach in his Almighty state only being in the Relativistic tier in speed

Not really, Yhwach not even in his strongest form is above Relativistic. Shunsui dodging Lille's attacks has been calced at around Relativistic, I see no contradiction here, Shunsui is just that strong and fast.

I’m assuming you are implying relativistic+ Since he isn’t nor is anyone in Bleach light speed so......Semantics

>Shunsui evading Lilles attacks means nothing that’s a feat for him not Kenpachi as Lille is the strongest and the leader

I don't see why they wouldn't scale to each other at least somewhat, I'm not saying Kenpachi is exactly as fast as Shunsui but they should be relative.

based on?

> You are also going in circles with Your Kenpachi being fast just because he fought elites arguement saying “Kenpachi‘s Shikai drastically increases his cuttting power” which is an indirect concession as I’ve been saying he isn’t fast and more so a brick

How is it a concession? I never once said Kenpachi's speed is due to his Shikai, he's just that speed in his base form.

Based on?

>you again indirectly concede by saying “Hey I never said it was consistent“ when it pertains to a Mayuri who in his Fight with Zombie Toshiro stating hes been in his office all day all the time and his assistant Nemu beating Pernida Which is a clear cut example of why the Elite don’t scale in Speed on top of backtracking by saying a fight with Mayuri is hardly ever speed based

I don't really understand what you're talking about here, but from what I do understand, nothing you said explains why the Elites wouldn't scale to each other in speed in the same way you're scaling the Yonko's speed to each other.

Okay I’ll make it simple or simply it

>Lille is the most powerful of The elites

> Pernida got beat by Mayuri and you yourself even saying Mayuri fights don’t showcase speed.

>A non Royal guard training Toshiro keeping up with the same A Gerard that Kenpachi was fighting

Do you see now see why they wouldn’t scale In speed?

> You say I have double standards when it comes to a sick Whitebeard and Kaidou Being Bare minimum in the same ball park in speed which makes no sense since Sengoku literally still stated Whitebeard to be the strongest man in the world even while he was sick.

Empty hype. Sengoku said this long before Whitebeard had even fought during the war, he might not have been aware of how weakened he had become due to age and sickness.

I’ll concede to the statement but Whitebeard still bypassed Akainus coO so my point still stands in regards to spee.

> You also tell me to prove Akainu was using CoO when we know it’s literally danger sensing and automatically goes off for example The monster trio All the way from Ryugyu palace where just chilling eating with Zoro even sleeping and they sensed Caribou from Kilometers away we don’t need a Katakuri red eye manga scan or Anime scene to know they are using it each and everytime.

No. It has been explained in the manga that CoO can only be utilized while you're in a calm state, regardless, lets say Whitebeard did move so fast that Akainu couldn't detect him with his CoO, you'd have to also agree that random marine fodder's eyesight >>>> Akainu's CoO since they had no problem perceiving Whitebeard and warning Akainu about him.

How wasn’t Akainu calm? He was taunting the Whitebeard pirates

You aren’t adding anything my point was that Whitebeard Bypassed Akainus CoO Which he did yes marines warned him After Whitebeard appeared behind him they didn’t see him approaching same way Akainu didn’t sense him approaching they would have warned him sooner if that was the case, unless you think Whitebeard has instant transmission

Whitebeard indeed Bypassed Akainus CoO

No.

nothing contradicts it.

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Sup3rn0va

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#30 Sup3rn0va  Online

@skysanji said:
@sup3rn0va said:

@skysanji said:

@sup3rn0va:

Dont want this page to be a quote on quote on quote so I’ll just go over what you said.

>Lilles attacks stated to be light speed is contradicted once we get to Yhwach in his Almighty state only being in the Relativistic tier in speed

Not really, Yhwach not even in his strongest form is above Relativistic. Shunsui dodging Lille's attacks has been calced at around Relativistic, I see no contradiction here, Shunsui is just that strong and fast.

I’m assuming you are implying relativistic+ Since he isn’t nor is anyone in Bleach light speed so......Semantics

>Shunsui evading Lilles attacks means nothing that’s a feat for him not Kenpachi as Lille is the strongest and the leader

I don't see why they wouldn't scale to each other at least somewhat, I'm not saying Kenpachi is exactly as fast as Shunsui but they should be relative.

based on?

Them both being in the same tier. Are you saying if Shunsui and Kenpachi fought that Shunsui would just run laps around Kenpachi and non stop blitz him?

> You are also going in circles with Your Kenpachi being fast just because he fought elites arguement saying “Kenpachi‘s Shikai drastically increases his cuttting power” which is an indirect concession as I’ve been saying he isn’t fast and more so a brick

How is it a concession? I never once said Kenpachi's speed is due to his Shikai, he's just that speed in his base form.

Based on?

What are you asking here?

>you again indirectly concede by saying “Hey I never said it was consistent“ when it pertains to a Mayuri who in his Fight with Zombie Toshiro stating hes been in his office all day all the time and his assistant Nemu beating Pernida Which is a clear cut example of why the Elite don’t scale in Speed on top of backtracking by saying a fight with Mayuri is hardly ever speed based

I don't really understand what you're talking about here, but from what I do understand, nothing you said explains why the Elites wouldn't scale to each other in speed in the same way you're scaling the Yonko's speed to each other.

Okay I’ll make it simple or simply it

>Lille is the most powerful of The elites

He's the leader, I don't recall it being stated he's the most powerful.

> Pernida got beat by Mayuri and you yourself even saying Mayuri fights don’t showcase speed.

I meant, Mayuri fights in a way that negates the opponents speed, he uses versatility and trickery.

>A non Royal guard training Toshiro keeping up with the same A Gerard that Kenpachi was fighting

That's a feat for Toshiro, keep in mind though that Gerard only fought Toshiro exclusively for a small amount of time, most of the fight he was fighting many people not just Toshiro.

Do you see now see why they wouldn’t scale In speed?

> You say I have double standards when it comes to a sick Whitebeard and Kaidou Being Bare minimum in the same ball park in speed which makes no sense since Sengoku literally still stated Whitebeard to be the strongest man in the world even while he was sick.

Empty hype. Sengoku said this long before Whitebeard had even fought during the war, he might not have been aware of how weakened he had become due to age and sickness.

I’ll concede to the statement but Whitebeard still bypassed Akainus coO so my point still stands in regards to spee.

> You also tell me to prove Akainu was using CoO when we know it’s literally danger sensing and automatically goes off for example The monster trio All the way from Ryugyu palace where just chilling eating with Zoro even sleeping and they sensed Caribou from Kilometers away we don’t need a Katakuri red eye manga scan or Anime scene to know they are using it each and everytime.

No. It has been explained in the manga that CoO can only be utilized while you're in a calm state, regardless, lets say Whitebeard did move so fast that Akainu couldn't detect him with his CoO, you'd have to also agree that random marine fodder's eyesight >>>> Akainu's CoO since they had no problem perceiving Whitebeard and warning Akainu about him.

How wasn’t Akainu calm? He was taunting the Whitebeard pirates

At this point he was charging at Luffy attempting to kill him iirc

You aren’t adding anything my point was that Whitebeard Bypassed Akainus CoO Which he did yes marines warned him After Whitebeard appeared behind him they didn’t see him approaching same way Akainu didn’t sense him approaching they would have warned him sooner if that was the case, unless you think Whitebeard has instant transmission

Whitebeard indeed Bypassed Akainus CoO

No.

nothing contradicts it.

Logic and prior feats. You also ignored my point that if we use your reasoning, then random fodder marines have better perception than Akainu's CoO.

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ovy7

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> Shikai Kenny w/o eye-patch

> mid-tier

Yeah, how about no?

Anyway, no one here survives a slash from Kenny (Bleach team included), and the overcrowded fight would give enough time for Toshiro to get into his Adult Form, which turns this into an easy win for the Bleach team.

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El_directo_

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Most of these guys aren't mid tiers. More like high tiers.

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MrViking

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Everyone on team 2 can solo.

If grimmjow HM Arc , than he maybe not , if he is current ,then he solos too.

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HitTheAssasin

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There's an incredible amount of characters here that aren't mid tiers in their respective verses.

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WSCKaidou

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@skysanji said:

@sup3rn0va:

Dont want this page to be a quote on quote on quote so I’ll just go over what you said.

>Lilles attacks stated to be light speed is contradicted once we get to Yhwach in his Almighty state only being in the Relativistic tier in speed

>Shunsui evading Lilles attacks means nothing that’s a feat for him not Kenpachi as Lille is the strongest and the leader

> You are also going in circles with Your Kenpachi being fast just because he fought elites arguement saying “Kenpachi‘s Shikai drastically increases his cuttting power” which is an indirect concession as I’ve been saying he isn’t fast and more so a brick

>you again indirectly concede by saying “Hey I never said it was consistent“ when it pertains to a Mayuri who in his Fight with Zombie Toshiro stating hes been in his office all day all the time and his assistant Nemu beating Pernida Which is a clear cut example of why the Elite don’t scale in Speed on top of backtracking by saying a fight with Mayuri is hardly ever speed based

> You say I have double standards when it comes to a sick Whitebeard and Kaidou Being Bare minimum in the same ball park in speed which makes no sense since Sengoku literally still stated Whitebeard to be the strongest man in the world even while he was sick.

> You also tell me to prove Akainu was using CoO when we know it’s literally danger sensing and automatically goes off for example The monster trio All the way from Ryugyu palace where just chilling eating with Zoro even sleeping and they sensed Caribou from Kilometers away we don’t need a Katakuri red eye manga scan or Anime scene to know they are using it each and everytime.

Whitebeard indeed Bypassed Akainus CoO

CoO only works if you're calm. Akainu was clearly not calm.

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Occhidifalco11

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Bleach team stomps.

Byakuya kenny and toshiro are high tier tho

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@skysanji: you are lowballing kinda hard there on some parts. Mayuri never beat pernida on his own. In fact he would have been killed several times if not for outside assistance. Even then he still couldn't kill pernida directly.

Shunsui never dodged lille attacks. He says himself that he used his shikai hax to make lille shoot the wrong target.

Whitebeard does not scale to kaido in speed. He failed to dodge cannons/bullets being shot at him. His claim as being the world's strongest man is taken too literally imo. Kaido has the title of world's strongest creature. Those are 2 different titles and one refers to every living thing essentially while one is only man.

I do agree with you though that kenny doesn't scale to the god tiers in speed