• 56 results
  • 1
  • 2
Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#1 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (31687 posts) - - Show Bio
No Caption Provided

Omni Man and Supreme

No Caption Provided

Superman

  • This is current Omni Man.
  • Mean Supreme, as in the stated most powerful Supreme.
  • Post Crisis Superman.
  • Death or KO.
  • Morals on.
  • In character.
  • Battle starts in Metropolis.

Can the super men of Image take on the man with no limits lol?!

Avatar image for cpt_facepuncher
#2 Posted by Cpt_FacePuncher (1137 posts) - - Show Bio
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

GG

Avatar image for jkutz
#3 Posted by Jkutz (649 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#4 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (31687 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol

Yet Shaggy Man beats him up, as does Deparo, and Darkseid. Deathbattle is sad.

Avatar image for realitywarper
#5 Posted by RealityWarper (12333 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol

Yet Shaggy Man beats him up, as does Deparo, and Darkseid. Deathbattle is sad.

No Caption Provided

Avatar image for beaconofstrength
#6 Edited by BeaconofStrength (12118 posts) - - Show Bio

Supreme solos. Omni Man is a non-factor.

Online
Avatar image for micah007123
#7 Edited by micah007123 (10836 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#8 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (31687 posts) - - Show Bio

@micah said:
@beaconofstrength said:

Supreme solos. Omni Man is a non-factor.

Omni Man stalemated Mean Supreme.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

The Strongest Supreme.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

People need to stop low balling Skybound lol.

Avatar image for beaconofstrength
#10 Posted by BeaconofStrength (12118 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: I know Omni Man's abilities, but Supreme doesn't use his powers in crossovers, from what I've read. Supreme is a massive 4th wall breaking character who can make up powers in an instant.

Online
Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#11 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (31687 posts) - - Show Bio

@beaconofstrength said:

@sirfizzwhizz: I know Omni Man's abilities, but Supreme doesn't use his powers in crossovers, from what I've read. Supreme is a massive 4th wall breaking character who can make up powers in an instant.

Mean Supreme used his powers. Also 4th Wall powers is as silly to take into account as Deadpoll 4th wall nonsense. The fact is Liefield's Mean Supreme had a legit cross over with Omni Man, and they stalemated in stats. Omni Man even brushing off the Heat Vision like attack. All this happen in Supreme's own comic.

I dont see the problem with it, after all Invincible had a cross over with Spawn, Witchblade, and Dragon fighting the more powerful Solar Man, and Mark was the only character to take the punches, while the rest dodge. Mark was the only guy to save Witchblade twice from dying too. Add to this a Evil Invincible double KO Pitt, same Pitt who match Supreme for a time, and took on Savage Hulk in a canon crossover with Pitt. Hell, Pitt put up a fight against Darkness. Double KO with a weaker evil Invincible. Witchblade was too double KO with a weaker Evil Invincible.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

We see weaker versions of Invincibles, bloody up, and KO characters like Witchblade, The Pitt, and the Dragon family with both Savage Dragon, and She Dragon. While these Invincibles did die in some numbers, out of 20, 8 survive taking on Images best heroes in that major cross over. KOing or maiming the super hero community of Young Blood, Guardians of the Globe, Dynomo 5, ect. The Pitt alone in canon crossovers match Savage Hulk, a match canon to Pitt not Hulk, and took on both Supreme and Darkness. He is totally KOed by a weaker Viltrumite. I really do not need to comment on Witchblade who dealt with Spawn, Aspen, and many more comic tier characters.

No Caption Provided

Then the writer himself hints where the Viltrumites stand, with one stating to have defeated his universes Spawn, and another claiming to beat a more powerful version of Firebreather. Not solid proof, but nice for the writer to add in statements of such when he did not need too.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Mark is the only character who put up the mot fight, and durability against Solar Man. Witchblade being second using her Magic that Solar Man is weak too.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Omni Man still double KO Mean Supreme, the most powerful Supreme in a straight up fight with his strikes. It happen.

The stats of Invincible and company, with their Smart Atom powers is no joke. At least Image Comics does not think so apparently.

Avatar image for micah007123
#13 Posted by micah007123 (10836 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: He's a non-factor in that he's not needed. Supreme and all of his craziness is enough.

Avatar image for urban_ninja_x
#14 Posted by Urban_Ninja_X (1252 posts) - - Show Bio

Omni-Man is a non-factor, and besides, he's not that powerful anymore. Right now, I'm suspecting that Invincible (and rightfully Allen the Alien), are largely more powerful than Omni-Man is. Especially currently. Thragg is more powerful, Battle Beast is more powerful, considering his nearly defeat of Thragg. I'm not too sure on Mean Supreme. PC Superman is a joke, though.

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#15 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (31687 posts) - - Show Bio

@micah said:

@sirfizzwhizz: He's a non-factor in that he's not needed. Supreme and all of his craziness is enough.

Fair enough.

Omni-Man is a non-factor, and besides, he's not that powerful anymore. Right now, I'm suspecting that Invincible (and rightfully Allen the Alien), are largely more powerful than Omni-Man is. Especially currently. Thragg is more powerful, Battle Beast is more powerful, considering his nearly defeat of Thragg. I'm not too sure on Mean Supreme. PC Superman is a joke, though.

Yes, Thragg, Allen, and Battle Beast would be the top three characters in Skybound Comics.

Avatar image for urban_ninja_x
#16 Posted by Urban_Ninja_X (1252 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: Knowing that, why would use Omni-Man instead of Thragg?

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#17 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (31687 posts) - - Show Bio

@urban_ninja_x said:

@sirfizzwhizz: Knowing that, why would use Omni-Man instead of Thragg?

It be a stomp. Mismatch. Knowingly spite lol.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Not fair.

Avatar image for micah007123
#18 Edited by micah007123 (10836 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: Also let me say hats off to you in your current CAV. You've been facing quite the challenge against both Hulk and Sups.

Avatar image for urban_ninja_x
#19 Posted by Urban_Ninja_X (1252 posts) - - Show Bio

@urban_ninja_x said:

@sirfizzwhizz: Knowing that, why would use Omni-Man instead of Thragg?

It be a stomp. Mismatch. Knowingly spite lol.

No Caption Provided

No Caption Provided

Not fair.

Well, yeah, unfair for Omni-Man. But I meant, using Thragg against PC Superman instead of Omni-Man.

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#20 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (31687 posts) - - Show Bio

@micah said:

@sirfizzwhizz: Also let me say hats off to you in your current CAV. You've been facing quite the challenge against both Hulk and Sups.

Thank you, its a uphill battle, but I argued Invincible against Green Lantern (Deranged Midget) and won, as well Invincible against Hulk (Ghost Ravage) and won, I hope to add another notch to me belt. We will see this one turns out. Best part is the Invincible crew has more feats, and I have more information than before.

Well, yeah, unfair for Omni-Man. But I meant, using Thragg against PC Superman instead of Omni-Man.

I think you miss the point. It be unfair against Superman. Nothing about Omni Man.

Avatar image for urban_ninja_x
#21 Posted by Urban_Ninja_X (1252 posts) - - Show Bio

@urban_ninja_x said:

Well, yeah, unfair for Omni-Man. But I meant, using Thragg against PC Superman instead of Omni-Man.

I think you miss the point. It be unfair against Superman. Nothing about Omni Man.

I'm not so sure on that. PC Superman gets one hell of a wank here on CV. If we go by wank-logic, Thragg shouldn't be a problem, even with Mean Supreme.

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#22 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (31687 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz said:
@urban_ninja_x said:

Well, yeah, unfair for Omni-Man. But I meant, using Thragg against PC Superman instead of Omni-Man.

I think you miss the point. It be unfair against Superman. Nothing about Omni Man.

I'm not so sure on that. PC Superman gets one hell of a wank here on CV. If we go by wank-logic, Thragg shouldn't be a problem, even with Mean Supreme.

Luckily there are those who stand against senseless wank.

Avatar image for princearagorn1
#23 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (31807 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#24 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (31687 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1 said:

And sentry beat molecule man.

Yup, he beat a weak retcon Molecule Man who had trouble affecting Daken.

Omni Man beat a stated the superior Supreme who took on all other Supremes, and beat down easy Suprema in a page.

Your point?

Avatar image for princearagorn1
#25 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (31807 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz said:
@princearagorn1 said:

And sentry beat molecule man.

Your point?

fortified by the daken/wolverine giving trouble to molecule man.

Avatar image for thatguywithheadphones
#26 Posted by thatguywithheadphones (19859 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol

Yet Shaggy Man beats him up, as does Deparo, and Darkseid. Deathbattle is sad.

Oh, but when Gaara lost to Toph they were better than slice bread, with fat chicks.

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#27 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (31687 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz said:

Lol

Yet Shaggy Man beats him up, as does Deparo, and Darkseid. Deathbattle is sad.

Oh, but when Gaara lost to Toph they were better than slice bread, with fat chicks.

No Caption Provided

You know it! Seriously though, they may gotten Terminator vs Robocop wrong, Kirby vs Buu wrong, but they got both Godzilla vs Gamera, and Tpph vs Naruto right. No bias. lol

Avatar image for angryhulks
#28 Posted by AngryHulks (3472 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol

Yet Shaggy Man beats him up, as does Deparo, and Darkseid. Deathbattle is sad.

That argument doesn't hold weight, these villains are designed to be JLA buster, and they're undoubtedly stronger than Superman. If you put Darkseid up against Omni-Man and Supreme, Darkseid would have much easier time beating them.

Using this argument is like saying Spider-Man can't beat Kick-Ass because Odin beats Spider-Man.

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#29 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (31687 posts) - - Show Bio

@angryhulks: I think you miss the point mate. This was all about Deathbattle claiming Superman has no limits, can lift infinity, ect lol.

I'm not sure where you think that I am saying characters I listed would not beat Supreme or Omni Man.

Avatar image for angryhulks
#30 Posted by AngryHulks (3472 posts) - - Show Bio

@angryhulks: I think you miss the point mate. This was all about Deathbattle claiming Superman has no limits, can lift infinity, ect lol.

I'm not sure where you think that I am saying characters I listed would not beat Supreme or Omni Man.

So you mean this is satirical thread about Screw Attack Superman?

Well, from what I read, I thought this was supposed to be Pre-Crisis Superman vs Supreme and Omni-Man.

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#31 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (31687 posts) - - Show Bio

@angryhulks: read the OP, I stated post crisis.

Also no, I did not make an joke thread, someone in the first post posted Deathbattle scans as why Superman wins, and I commented how much a joke that was.

Avatar image for angryhulks
#32 Posted by AngryHulks (3472 posts) - - Show Bio

@angryhulks: read the OP, I stated post crisis.

Also no, I did not make an joke thread, someone in the first post posted Deathbattle scans as why Superman wins, and I commented how much a joke that was.

Thanks for the clarification.

Avatar image for wyldsong
#34 Posted by Wyldsong (8447 posts) - - Show Bio

@beaconofstrength said:

@sirfizzwhizz: I know Omni Man's abilities, but Supreme doesn't use his powers in crossovers, from what I've read. Supreme is a massive 4th wall breaking character who can make up powers in an instant.

Mean Supreme used his powers. Also 4th Wall powers is as silly to take into account as Deadpoll 4th wall nonsense. The fact is Liefield's Mean Supreme had a legit cross over with Omni Man, and they stalemated in stats. Omni Man even brushing off the Heat Vision like attack. All this happen in Supreme's own comic.

I dont see the problem with it, after all Invincible had a cross over with Spawn, Witchblade, and Dragon fighting the more powerful Solar Man, and Mark was the only character to take the punches, while the rest dodge. Mark was the only guy to save Witchblade twice from dying too. Add to this a Evil Invincible double KO Pitt, same Pitt who match Supreme for a time, and took on Savage Hulk in a canon crossover with Pitt. Hell, Pitt put up a fight against Darkness. Double KO with a weaker evil Invincible. Witchblade was too double KO with a weaker Evil Invincible.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

We see weaker versions of Invincibles, bloody up, and KO characters like Witchblade, The Pitt, and the Dragon family with both Savage Dragon, and She Dragon. While these Invincibles did die in some numbers, out of 20, 8 survive taking on Images best heroes in that major cross over. KOing or maiming the super hero community of Young Blood, Guardians of the Globe, Dynomo 5, ect. The Pitt alone in canon crossovers match Savage Hulk, a match canon to Pitt not Hulk, and took on both Supreme and Darkness. He is totally KOed by a weaker Viltrumite. I really do not need to comment on Witchblade who dealt with Spawn, Aspen, and many more comic tier characters.

No Caption Provided

Then the writer himself hints where the Viltrumites stand, with one stating to have defeated his universes Spawn, and another claiming to beat a more powerful version of Firebreather. Not solid proof, but nice for the writer to add in statements of such when he did not need too.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Mark is the only character who put up the mot fight, and durability against Solar Man. Witchblade being second using her Magic that Solar Man is weak too.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Omni Man still double KO Mean Supreme, the most powerful Supreme in a straight up fight with his strikes. It happen.

The stats of Invincible and company, with their Smart Atom powers is no joke. At least Image Comics does not think so apparently.

I am going to make 3 clarifications here, and while I could point out some more, I will bring it to a PM with you in a bit brother man. I just want to point out a few things in the interest of fairness for three of my favorite characters you have talked about in this post.

  1. That is not the canon Witchblade/Sara in any of those showings.
  2. Savage Dragon also tanked Solar Man's hits in that fight and got back up, and to be fair, he is more than durable enough to do so. Though it is true that while Solar Man was fully powered, Mark was the only one capable of knocking Solar Man around with a pure physical attack.
  3. In the Pitt instance, Pitt killed an evil Invincible while in the outer atmosphere, and then falls to the ground. Then we see him knocked out in another panel. While I think it is fair to say that the fight taxed him to the point that he was knocked out after impact (which is still pretty damn impressive), he wasn't KO'ed directly by his foe.
Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#35 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (31687 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong:

That is not the canon Witchblade/Sara in any of those showings.

Your being a tad bit hypocritical here though. Witchblade is a image character, and whether you agree with it or not, that is the Image version used amd KOed. Its legit for two reasons.

First reason look at Pitt vs Hulk. Its not a canon Hulk, but it is for Pitt. Hulk was written for all intents and purpose to be the 616 Savage Hulk. Same for Gladiator vs Supreme. Its not canon to Gladiator, but for all intents and purpose is the 616 Gladiator in a canon Supreme story mate. Heck we seen what a early Darkness did with Superman, though its not a canon Superman, we know that Superman was made to be Post Crisis Superman.

Second reason, Spawn world, and Dragons world are seperate, the events in one does not affect the others, yet they both had a canon cross over. Same for Young Blood and Violator. Same for the Amazon chick and Angela. Same for the whole Image United story line. The fact is Image has canon cross overs of characters even though the stories of the others comics do not cross over in their respective comics.

Third and final reason, Top Cow is still own by Image as a whole mate. As seen in this official Image new topic.

No Caption Provided

Witch Blade is a image property owned character, and can be used for the intents of the nonsensical Image crossovers lol. By saying its uncannon to the current one from Top Cow that did its own thing does not change the fact its base the Image Witchblade.

Savage Dragon also tanked Solar Man's hits in that fight and got back up, and to be fair, he is more than durable enough to do so. Though it is true that while Solar Man was fully powered, Mark was the only one capable of knocking Solar Man around with a pure physical attack.

Dragon was maimed against Solar, and never took head shots. Mark was not maimed and took head shots. Mark was also able to as you said knock him around.

In the Pitt instance, Pitt killed an evil Invincible while in the outer atmosphere, and then falls to the ground. Then we see him knocked out in another panel. While I think it is fair to say that the fight taxed him to the point that he was knocked out after impact (which is still pretty damn impressive), he wasn't KO'ed directly by his foe.

A double KO from exhaustion or not is a double KO, and being killed by Pitt is not a bad thing since the Evil version is weaker than Mark, and Pitt has tangle with Hulk, Darkness, and Supreme.

Avatar image for mattmarvel
#36 Posted by MattMarvel (50 posts) - - Show Bio

HOHOHO!

SUPERMAN ONE SHOTS THESE RIP OFF CLOWNS!

Avatar image for dorukesin1
#37 Edited by dorukesin1 (1808 posts) - - Show Bio

need speed feats for team.If they arent faster than nanosecond, they wont be able to keep up

Avatar image for terry2012
#38 Posted by terry2012 (9368 posts) - - Show Bio

The team.

Avatar image for wyldsong
#39 Edited by Wyldsong (8447 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz:

Your being a tad bit hypocritical here though. Witchblade is a image character, and whether you agree with it or not, that is the Image version used amd KOed.

No, I am not being hypocritical, and that is not the Top Cow Witchblade in that scene. I say it isn't, because it isn't, and it is a fact. You do realize that in Savage Dragon itself, there are different versions of characters that aren't canon to the main versions? The original Earth that Savage Dragon started on, which for all intents and purposes is the original Image Earth was destroyed, so all of the original versions of those original Image characters he interacted with, are gone. Excluding his son and daughter, no one came over with him. Not one. He has interacted with different versions of Badrock and other Image characters on this new Earth, so there are versions of these different characters on his new Earth.

Top Cow, while owned by Image, has remained a separate entity universe wise. They had one shared universe for Top Cow, which had its own versions of Heaven, Hell, and a completely different mythos than was setup in the original Image Universe, and in those early days, Image characters never interacted with Top Cow and Vice Versa. Eventually, Cyberforce was moved over to Top Cow, and guess what? Their time in Image was never once brought up nor mentioned. There has never been a crossover between Top Cow proper and the original Image U, since ANYTIME a Top Cow character shows up, they know the various Image guys and what is going on, and there is no dimension hopping, which is what would have to happen for the Top Cow guys to even meet up. Savage Dragon has not appeared in the Top Cow U to fight the Darkness, or help Sara with a case. Invincible has never flown on by while the artifacts were battling some menace. The Top Cow Earth was never once destroyed as in Savage Dragon, though they had a reality rewrite thatnks to the artifacts being brought together, which never affected Invincible or Dragon. Hell, God and Satan as shown in Spawn and Savage Dragon doesn't even exist in Top Cow...again, a completely different mythos.

Just because Witchblade is a Top Cow character, which is owned by Image, does not make the Witchblade shown in any scene you have ever brought up dealing with an Image comic, the actual canon Witchblade. You can bring up something showing who owns what, but it doesn't make it the canon version of the character. The canon Witchblade is in a different universe than the instances you have shown. Period. End of story. There is no arguing that. Vampirella showed up in a Dragon comic, do we want to argue that was the canon Vampirella? We wouldn't, because on this new Earth that Dragon inhabits, there are different versions of known characters. Take for example, Badrock and Barbaric. While the Earth Badrock inhabits was still intact (before it was destroyed), Dragon is seen on his new Earth, interacting with that version of Badrock and Barbaric:

No Caption Provided

Yet those are not the original Barbaric and Badrock...since this is a completely different Earth, which is the exact same Earth Dragon now resides on and met Invincible on. There are different versions of familiar characters on his new Earth, and they aren't the canon versions of the original characters.

To argue that it is a canon showing for the likes of the Witchblade and the Darkness is just silly, since they did not jump dimensions, and don't live on the same Earth as Dragon. I can show you more characters he runs across throughout the "This Savage World" story while the original Dragon Earth is still up and running, and they aren't the same as the original canon versions. The only time Witchblade has ever shown up in a Savage Dragon story is on this new, alternate Earth Dragon inhabits, which is after his original planet is destroyed. Just because we have a planet where it is proven that there are different versions of familiar characters, doesn't mean it is the canon version if the characters we are seeing, especially when the instance is never once referenced in the canon material of the Top Cow U...and the fact that as I have stated numerous times, Image comics treats the Witchblade as little better than a glorified symbiote when outside of Top Cow.

First reason look at Pitt vs Hulk. Its not a canon Hulk, but it is for Pitt.

That crossover wasn't even canon to Pitt. It bears looking at mentioning, because the creator of Pitt (who is also a very well known Hulk artist) and a popular Hulk scribe wrote it. It was never once brought up in a canon Pitt comic.

Same for Gladiator vs Supreme. Its not canon to Gladiator, but for all intents and purpose is the 616 Gladiator in a canon Supreme story mate. Heck we seen what a early Darkness did with Superman, though its not a canon Superman, we know that Superman was made to be Post Crisis Superman.

The rest of these examples are neither here nor there to prove your point. You have instances of a canon character meeting a non-canon character. At least in these, you have the characters acting within their power levels. Hell, I seem to remember in one of the Image stories, someone screaming about "how do we fight demons" and that version of the Witchblade not saying a damn word...when she fights demons on nearly a daily basis in the canon series. It is a version of the Witchblade you are seeing, not the actual Witchblade from the canon series.

Second reason, Spawn world, and Dragons world are seperate, the events in one does not affect the others, yet they both had a canon cross over. Same for Young Blood and Violator. Same for the Amazon chick and Angela. Same for the whole Image United story line. The fact is Image has canon cross overs of characters even though the stories of the others comics do not cross over in their respective comics.

Originally, most of the Image U was the same universe, which overtime split off. Spawn remade his world, Dragon's world was destroyed and not inhabits a new one. Young Blood was one the same Earth as Dragon's original. Image United presented us with a storyline with no universe hopping, and everyone is in the same place, and knows who each other are, which would be in line with Dragon's current Earth, which is proven to have different versions of known characters (see the example of Badrock and Barbaric above). That is not the canon Darkness, Witchblade, and most likely not the canon Pitt (though it is possible he at least made a universe transition, since he has gone through different publishers).

You yourself are bringing up canon instances with non-canon versions of characters, which is exactly what we have here with the Witchblade. That is not the canon Witchblade.

Third and final reason, Top Cow is still own by Image as a whole mate.

Image owns them...it doesn't make it a canon story for those characters. Marvel and DC own different imprints, with different universes, and those universes aren't canon to the main lines. I can start listing titles, but I think we all get the point. The version of the Witchblade shown in Savage Dragon, Invincible, and Image United would get her arse stomped by the canon version. Is Image United canon for maybe Invincible, Dragon, and some of the other characters? Yes. Yet all we are seeing is a different version of the Witchblade and the Darkness in those stories. Show me some universe hopping and you have a case. If all you have is that Top Cow is owned by Image, then that is no case at all.

Witch Blade is a image property owned character, and can be used for the intents of the nonsensical Image crossovers lol. By saying its uncannon to the current one from Top Cow that did its own thing does not change the fact its base the Image Witchblade.

And Image used a version of the Witchblade, which is their right. It still isn't a canon tale for the Witchblade. I can bring up the fact again that on Dragon's new Earth there are new and different versions of familiar characters...

Dragon was maimed against Solar, and never took head shots. Mark was not maimed and took head shots. Mark was also able to as you said knock him around.

Dragon took at least one very clear head shot in that very fight, plus other hits...and wasn't maimed in that battle at all. He got back up and fought along with the rest, just like Mark did. Let's not downplay Dragon's durability here. I am looking at the issue right now brother man.

A double KO from exhaustion or not is a double KO, and being killed by Pitt is not a bad thing since the Evil version is weaker than Mark

And while it is not a bad showing that the evil Invincible exhausted Pitt to that point...he still didn't KO Pitt. Let's be honest, we see Pitt falling to the ground, we don't even see him hit. So we can't even claim he was KO'ed when he hit the ground. All we know is that we see him on the ground, seemingly passed out. There was no double KO. There was Pitt killing him, Pitt falling to ground (since he cannot fly), then Pitt laying on the ground seemingly out. So where is the actual KO?

Look, it is a good showing, I am not denying that, but stating that there was a double KO is a bit much there.

Pitt has tangle with Hulk, Darkness, and Supreme.

Pitt and Darkness don't actually fight in that story, and I explained the Hulk instance, which I do still believe to be a valid comparison strength level wise for Pitt thanks to the writers. And Supreme was a canon battle, though overall, Supreme would have beat Pitt if Pitt had not separated him from the his hammer, which was his only source of power in that battle (he had lost his regular powers for a time).

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#40 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (31687 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong: your being hypocritical. I disagree with ya old friend. Witchblade was double KOed, as was the Dragon Family, Pitt, ect. Does it pertain in their universe? Most crossovers of Image does not and you know that. Again though it's image characters used with permission in a crossover over event against evil Invinvibles.

Much like Hulk vs Pitt, Gladiator vs Supreme, Superman vs Darkness, Witchblade vs Spawn, ect it has no canon value to one character but all the canon value to another, and you yourself use these arguments in your own debates. Only now becuase it's Witchblade you seem not to like the outcome. They also pit Witchblade against Omega Spawn who stomped her too, and I know you have issue with her being weaker than canon version as you said when their is no proof she is weaker. She is a image character used in a Image stated crossover event.

Again for all intents and purposes the result was it took 20 Invinvibles to fight and beat most of the Image Comic characters. The only ones shown not KOed or injured being Spawn, and Darkness.

Avatar image for wyldsong
#41 Edited by Wyldsong (8447 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz:

your being hypocritical

No, I'm being realistic. If Witchblade or Top Cow, at least once had referenced any of the Image stories, then you would have a point. They don't, and your point doesn't stand. There wasn't any dimension hopping, and that is not the canon Witchblade, because as proven, on Dragon's Earth, non-canon versions of characters exist.

I disagree with ya old friend

And as a friend, I am respectfully telling you that you are wrong. While the scenes may be canon to Dragon and Invincible, they aren't canon to Top Cow. It is simply a different version of the Top Cow characters we are seeing, nothing more.

Witchblade was double KOed, as was the Dragon Family, Pitt, ect. Does it pertain in their universe?

Are we going to start arguing that What IF, Elseworlds, Altered Image, and so on are canon to the main lines now? Those scenes don't pertain to the Top Cow stories, and aren't canon. I love Kirkman and Larsen as writers, but no one who has written for Witchblade or Darkness even contributed to Image United nor the Invincible/Savage Dragon stories. Again, different versions of the main characters have appeared on Dragon's new world, even when the old world was still active prior to it's destruction. Non-canon versions of the Witchblade and the Darkness have appeared in various Image books, yet those same Image characters have never appeared in Top Cow...because they don't exist to Top Cow, and are not canon to their tales.

Most crossovers of Image does not and you know that.

When Image had a shared universe, they had plenty of canon crossovers. That is not the canon Witchblade, and to argue otherwise is silly.

Again though it's image characters used with permission in a crossover over event against evil Invinvibles.

It used a non-canon Witchblade...unless there is a scene with dimension hopping that I missed for the Witchblade? A version of the Witchblade exists on Dragon's/Invincible's Earth. Nothing less, nothing more.

Much like Hulk vs Pitt, Gladiator vs Supreme, Superman vs Darkness, Witchblade vs Spawn, ect it has no canon value to one character but all the canon value to another, and you yourself use these arguments in your own debates. Only now becuase it's Witchblade you seem not to like the outcome.

Hulk vs Pitt, I stated in the CaV was non-canon, but stated the reasons it should be considered. Gladiator vs Supreme...never used. Superman vs Darkness, I stated specifically why it should be considered when I used it, even though it was non-canon to Supes. I use non canon instances when I can reasonably and fathom-ably prove why it should be considered. I have maybe used the Solar Man scene one time for Witchblade in a CaV before truly understanding what it was I was using, and before having fully read Savage Dragon in it's entirety with an understanding of what had really happened with the Image U.

Let's not act like I casually toss out non-canon references for canon battles. I don't, and I would think you of all people would know that I am big on my research. Let's also refocus here, because Mark's performance versus the performance of a non-canon Witchblade makes no real difference here. I am simply telling you that this is not the canon Witchblade and Darkness being used in Image stories.

Again for all intents and purposes the result was it took 20 Invinvibles to fight and beat most of the Image Comic characters. The only ones shown not KOed or injured being Spawn, and Darkness.

And it was a non-canon Darkness. Who do I argue more for, the Darkness or the Witchblade? That's right, the Darkness. And if I were simply showing favoritism, then why aren't I arguing it is canon for the Darkness? I am known for my Darkness debating, as he is my top, number one favorite character of all time, and I can admit that it was not canon for the Darkness...

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#42 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (31687 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong: we agree to disagree. Image characters being used soley to interact with another whether they are shown dimension hopping or not. Unlike Marvel/DC, Image is not about being coordinated in their canon. It's freaking clear they intend to show so and so matching so and so on their in universe crossover events.

That's all I have to say. It's like disregarding Batman vs Judge Dredd, a event canon to Dreed but not Batman. We all use that canon to Dredd crossover to show he is on par with Batman, but your logic itsna featless batman even though the intent is clear. That's not right man. Your taking away what is clear intent on placing Invincible No match for Dakrness, but can double KO with Witchblade. Seems fair to me.

Avatar image for neongamewave
#43 Posted by NeonGameWave (19333 posts) - - Show Bio

Mean Supreme solos.

Avatar image for wyldsong
#44 Posted by Wyldsong (8447 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: I am going to let it drop because it is really neither here nor there for this thread in the end. The reality of the situation still stands though, and you can spin it any way you like, but the fact of the matter is, on Dragon's very world, there are versions of known characters that are not the canon the version. I showed you this and have explained it several times over. That is not the canon Witchblade just because Image owns Top Cow...

But, let me get this back on track by stating that the Image Team should probably take this one.

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#45 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (31687 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong: Were not arguing canon, we are arguing the legitimacy of Image showing Invincible double KOing Pitt and Witchblade that Image threw in there big Crossover event for Mark.

Avatar image for wyldsong
#46 Posted by Wyldsong (8447 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong: Were not arguing canon, we are arguing the legitimacy of Image showing Invincible double KOing Pitt and Witchblade that Image threw in there big Crossover event for Mark.

If it isn't canon, it isn't a valid showing for the actual capabilities of the Witchblade...I was arguing it wasn't canon...

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#47 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (31687 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong: I think htat is were we diagree.

Judge Dredd vs un canon Batman.

Earth 31 Batman vs un canon Classic Spawn.

Supreme vs un canon Pitt.

Pitt vs un canon Hulk.

Invincible vs un canon Witchblade, Pitt.

Solar Man vs un canon Simmons Spawn.

All these are feats we can use, and we assume are of the same level of the characters at the time of the comic. They are canon battles, and the other characters are always assumed, or should be assumed, of the same power level of the characters they portray. Its a useful story telling element, and should be seen as a legit feat for characters who have few feats on where they stand in comic world by their own writers.

You really think Witchblade was meant to be weaker when the writer and editor put her in that crossover mate? Thats just fan assumption. It makes more sense that they view their character is able to beat Witchblade in a double KO. That is logical, and fair base on evidence at hand.

Avatar image for wyldsong
#48 Posted by Wyldsong (8447 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz:I thought we were letting this drop?

I've already told you my thoughts on using non-canon sources. What you are trying to do with the Witchblade here doesn't equate. You are talking about a version of Sara and the Witchblade that have not gone through what the canon version has. Can you equate the Ultimate versions of Marvel characters to their 616 versions? No, you can't. Different feats and showings, with different levels of power for what is basically the same character, yet their feats aren't interchangeable between them.

Now, we have a version of Sara as seen in Savage Dragon/Invincible, that for many of her showings is a fodder character. Excluding the Solar Man fight, where she gave as good as anyone else in the battle and actually managed to cause pain to Solar Man (Larsen's doing writer wise), she has mainly been a fodder, throw away character. She shows up, does an attack or two, and then is relegated to the sidelines and is knocked out. This version of Sara resides on a world where she knows the Image crew, and lives on a world with a completely different background that the canon Sara's world. She hasn't gone through what the canon Sara has gone through due to this, and isn't proven to be on the canon Sara's level. This isn't a fan assumption, it is fact.

What makes sense to me, is that Kirkman is using a bunch of characters for a story that he really has no idea as to what their capabilities truly are. What makes sense to me is that writers who do that often write the characters as under performing to their real potential. And what also makes a hell of a lot of sense to me, is this is a big reason non-canon appearances aren't a real consideration when compared up against the canon versions.

The only time I can abide by non-canon is when there is a good reason to, as in the case of Hulk vs Pitt. David Keown and Peter Davis, two well known names from their work on Hulk, and of course Keown is well known for creating Pitt. So you have two guys that know what they are talking about, and in their fight, neither character was written as being less than they were. I can buy that as proof and a good example. Kirkman, who has only ever written a fodder version of Sara in Image United and Invincible...I don't buy as proof of anything when it comes to Witchblade.

Avatar image for sirfizzwhizz
#49 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (31687 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong: again I disagree with you. Sarah in Image United and Solar Man crossover which are both canon to Invincible is still shown on the same level as average spawn. So sorry if I'm not buying your reason to discount her against Invincible.

I am dropping it, we are not going to agree won this.

Avatar image for wyldsong
#50 Posted by Wyldsong (8447 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong: again I disagree with you. Sarah in Image United and Solar Man crossover which are both canon to Invincible is still shown on the same level as average spawn. So sorry if I'm not buying your reason to discount her against Invincible.

I am dropping it, we are not going to agree won this.

The Sara in Invincible, Savage Dragon, and Image United may be the same one from each of those series, but it still isn't the canon Sara from Top Cow, and isn't the same beast as it were. We can let it drop here, but it doesn't change the facts brother man.

Consider the matter dropped for now.