Omega Level Mutants vs Avengers Ladies

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skywalker95

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Omega Level Mutants

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Avengers Ladies

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Rules

  • Standard 616 versions (no Phoenix, HoM, Binary)
  • No prep
  • Both sides have full knowledge
  • In character
  • Win by any means except BFR
  • Takes place in an unpopulated New York City
  • Start 100 meters apart
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Koays

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#2  Edited By Koays

Sersi and Moondragon are outclassed here.

Monica though is the decisive factor.....depending on how powerful and how fast she currently is and if Magneto or Vulcan can counter her.

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Scarlet_Wiccan

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#4  Edited By Scarlet_Wiccan

Sersi and Moondragon severely drag Team 2 down but Monica can blitz the entirety of Team 1 if she's determined enough

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geekryan

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#5  Edited By geekryan  Online

The only way I see the mutants winning is if Jean and Exodus both immediately go for a telepathic assault. That would be way too much for Moondragon and Sersi to counter and everyone else would go down right away.

In every other scenario, the Avengers Ladies win.

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BigBaby

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#6  Edited By BigBaby  Online

This is really coming down to Sue, and Wanda. While Moondragon, and Sersi hold off Jean and Exodus, briefly, Sue is either dropping Storm, or she's dropping Magneto. Monica could also substitute for Storm.

Furthermore, there's no one on the other side, no matter who you pair her against from the remaining matchups, that can actually survive against Wanda for more than a minute. This is going two ways: the people fighting Wanda will get violated, and the people Wanda helps against their matchups will decisively win in a matter of seconds. Sue will then join and help overwhelm members after she deals with her own contestant. Meanwhile, the numbers on one side are going to be thin(team one), and on the other, are going to be larger.

Either way, Team One is losing this. Quite sure Moondragon can stall Jean, and as much as a chance Exodus has to TP, there's nothing stopping Sersi from transmuting him on an equal level.

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Mooty_Pass

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#7  Edited By Mooty_Pass

Team 2 for the Win. Monica MVP.

Although, I can see Team 1 pulling out a win. But, they will definitely work for it.

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Mage101

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@bigbaby:

Sersi hold off Jean

Sersi literally admitted that her TP is nothing compared to Jean's, she isn't holding anything.

Team 2 for the Win. Monic MVP.

Although, I can see Team 1 pulling out a win. But, they will definitely work for it.

How does monica counter draining, TP etc.

Sersi and Moondragon severely drag Team 2 down but Monica can blitz the entirety of Team 1 if she's determined enough

I rarely see monica blitz to be honest and her track record against TP is bad.

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BigBaby

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#9  Edited By BigBaby  Online

@mage101: Sersi is holding off Exodus, Moondragon is holding off Jean. The literal quote says it there. You don't need to be a telepath to hold off a telepath either. Neither of them has counters to transmutation.:

This is really coming down to Sue, and Wanda. While Moondragon, and Sersi hold off Jean and Exodus,

Either way, Team One is losing this. Quite sure Moondragon can stall Jean, and as much as a chance Exodus has to TP, there's nothing stopping Sersi from transmuting him on an equal level.

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cosmic_reign

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^All that...

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Mooty_Pass

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#11  Edited By Mooty_Pass

@mage101: Draining someone via TP right off the bat isn't something Jean will do immediately. Besides Jean is too busy fending off Moondragon. That's IF Jean is even fighting Moondragon.

This Fight really depends on who is fighting who? If, it's:

Jean - Wonda

Storm- Sue

Vulcan - Captain Marvel

Iceman- Spectrum

Exodus - Sersi

Magneto - Moondragon

Then I can see Team 1 pulling out a Win.

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Scarlet_Wiccan

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#12  Edited By Scarlet_Wiccan

@mage101:

I rarely see monica blitz to be honest and her track record against TP is bad.

She actually blitzes very often and with her current state it would be pretty easy if she's determined to do it (Currently she doesn't need to transform into energy to move at light speed she can currently do it in her human form)

The only reason Monica was susceptible to TP is because in that instance speed of thought was faster than light speed but we know Monica moves at light speed pretty consistently whereas the speed of thought and telepaths' speed can be highly inconsistent

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Mage101

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@mooty_pass:

Draining someone via TP right off the bat isn't something Jean will do immediately

Not jean lol, Vulcan.

Besides Jean is too busy fending off Moondragon.

Exodus can do that and I don't see moondragon being a threat to Jean, 90's jean was doing well against her and moondragon couldn't defeat her telepathically and current jean is far above 90's jean.

I see Vulcan beating spectrum, iceman beating carol, exodus beating sersi again, sue beating storm and jean beating Wanda.

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Mage101

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@mage101:

I rarely see monica blitz to be honest and her track record against TP is bad.

She actually blitzes very often and with her current state it would be pretty easy if she's determined to do it (Currently she doesn't need to transform into energy to move at light speed she can currently do it in her human form)

The only reason Monica was susceptible to TP is because in that instance speed of thought was faster than light speed but we know Monica moves at light speed pretty consistently whereas the speed of thought and telepaths' speed can be highly inconsistent

Who has she beaten that is of too much importance in speed?

And Monica isn't inconsistent? She has been tagged in light form and doesn't have any track record against telepathy, everyone has track record when it comes to speed Monica isn't different.

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Mage101

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@bigbaby:

: Sersi is holding off Exodus, Moondragon is holding off Jean. The literal quote says it there. You don't need to be a telepath to hold of

You do know that telepaths don't always have to engage in psychic battles right, they can literally and easily block moon dragon and exodus and those two don't have a good track record against jean and exodus. Jean and exodus can literally block them while they mind control the avengers to fight eachother and the mutants(most of them) have defenses to block out moon dragon. Sersi transmutation will be a problem but let's not act like mags doesn't have internal attacks that he uses quite often, Vulcan loves using hax that could defeat most of the avengers, sersi transmutation will also be useless against iceman and telepaths can use their powers without needing a body.

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Mooty_Pass

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#16  Edited By Mooty_Pass
@mage101 said:

Not jean lol, Vulcan.

Oh...I thought you meant Jean my bad. Well, you weren't specific !! LOL jokin.

Exodus can do that and I don't see moondragon being a threat to Jean, 90's jean was doing well against her and moondragon couldn't defeat her telepathically and current jean is far above 90's jean.

You are correct, but I think someone else is more better suited to fight MoonDragon than Jean. Exodus needs to stay fighting Sersi until help arrives.

I see Vulcan beating spectrum, iceman beating carol, exodus beating sersi again, sue beating storm and jean beating Wanda.

That is one path to Victory. Here is another path to victory I see.

Jean beats Wanda, Iceman holds off Specturm until Jean arrives. Jean/Iceman beat Spectrum together. Storm holds off Sue until help arrives. Jean/Iceman/Storm together beat Sue, Vulcan beats Carol D , Exodus holds off Sersi until help comes. Storm/Exodus beat Sersi and Magneto beats MoonDragon.

That's how I see it. If, these people are fighting someone else. Then Team 2 surely Sweeps.

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marvelfan1992

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#17  Edited By marvelfan1992

Iunno if any of the mutants can really deal with Spectrum...

She kinda makes this a win for the Avengers ladies

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Scarlet_Wiccan

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#18  Edited By Scarlet_Wiccan

@mage101:

Who has she beaten that is of too much importance in speed?

With her current state she's blitzed a few times but hasn't really appeared much recently to see if it's her go to move

And Monica isn't inconsistent? She has been tagged in light form and doesn't have any track record against telepathy, everyone has track record when it comes to speed Monica isn't different.

I'm not saying she isn't inconsistent, I'm saying her speed is significantly more consistently light speed then any telepath and the way her powers work has recently changed, Now she rarely goes into her energy form and can move at light speed without her energy form which she couldn't do prior to her solo series this year

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Mage101

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@mage101:

With her current state she's blitzed a few times but hasn't really appeared much recently to see if it's her go to move

She was in the previous captain marvel series and I didn't see her blitz anyone so it's really not her go-to move

I'm not saying she isn't inconsistent, I'm saying her speed is significantly more consistently light speed then any telepath and the way her powers work has recently changed, Now she rarely goes into her energy form and can move at light speed without her energy form which she couldn't do prior to her solo series this year

Is her speed really more consistent? I mean she's literally light and majority of the times that I have seen her, she rarely moves at light speed unless she's traveling, she gets reacted or tagged by characters that are less than light speed, I mean what's her excuse, I can say that the telepaths are still human in physiology and it takes a lot of skill and Train to hone their skill and they can't be 100% accurate with it but Monica is light with light speed reaction and senses so why do she operate like that. Using her feats from her solo series doesn't make it consistent, if she hasn't been operating like that for some time now.

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Mage101

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@mooty_pass:

@mage101 said:

Not jean lol, Vulcan.

Oh...I thought you meant Jean my bad. Well, you weren't specific !! LOL jokin.

Exodus can do that and I don't see moondragon being a threat to Jean, 90's jean was doing well against her and moondragon couldn't defeat her telepathically and current jean is far above 90's jean.

You are correct, but I think someone else is more better suited to fight MoonDragon than Jean. Exodus needs to stay fighting Sersi until help arrives.

I see Vulcan beating spectrum, iceman beating carol, exodus beating sersi again, sue beating storm and jean beating Wanda.

That is one path to Victory. Here is another path to victory I see.

Jean beats Wanda, Iceman holds off Specturm until Jean arrives. Jean/Iceman beat Spectrum together. Storm holds off Sue until help arrives. Jean/Iceman/Storm together beat Sue, Vulcan beats Carol D , Exodus holds off Sersi until help comes. Storm/Exodus beat Sersi and Magneto beats MoonDragon.

That's how I see it. If, these people are fighting someone else. Then Team 2 surely Sweeps.

Fair enough.

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Scarlet_Wiccan

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#21  Edited By Scarlet_Wiccan

@mage101:

She was in the previous captain marvel series and I didn't see her blitz anyone so it's really not her go-to move

That was before her solo book

Is her speed really more consistent? I mean she's literally light and majority of the times that I have seen her, she rarely moves at light speed unless she's traveling, she gets reacted or tagged by characters that are less than light speed, I mean what's her excuse, I can say that the telepaths are still human in physiology and it takes a lot of skill and Train to hone their skill and they can't be 100% accurate with it but Monica is light with light speed reaction and senses so why do she operate like that. Using her feats from her solo series doesn't make it consistent, if she hasn't been operating like that for some time now

She still has better speed feats than any telepath on a consistent basis and in the past Monica could reduce her speed to below light speed but currently her powers have been different post her solo book in multiple other books too and she almost never goes into full energy form

I'm not even that big of a Monica fan I'm just saying it's well within her capabilities to blitz team 1 unless she's jobbing

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Mage101

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@mage101:

That was before her solo book

So your point is basically ignore everything that came before her solo book or what because those captain marvel issues where about a year and a half ago.

She still has better speed feats than any telepath on a consistent basis and in the past Monica could reduce her speed to below light speed but currently her powers have been different post her solo book in multiple other books too and she almost never goes into full energy form

Sorry but if we use this logic of yours then monica will be universal as she was universal in her solo series.

I'm not even that big of a Monica fan I'm just saying it's well within her capabilities to blitz team 1 unless she's jobbing

And i disagree, her track record against TP is bad and i won't use a single series to determine a character's consistency.

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Scarlet_Wiccan

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@mage101:

So your point is basically ignore everything that came before her solo book or what because those captain marvel issues where about a year and a half ago.

Before her solo she couldn't move at light speed in her human form and since it she hasn't really went into it in fights so yes it does change her whole fighting style

Sorry but if we use this logic of yours then monica will be universal as she was universal in her solo series.

That would be an outlier if that happened

And i disagree, her track record against TP is bad and i won't use a single series to determine a character's consistency.

Again, Her powers and fighting style completely changed and in both Women of Marvel and Thunderbolts she adopted the new fighting style and can you show me scans of her failing against TP beyond that one character that was faster than her in Ultimates

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Mage101

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@mage101:

Before her solo she couldn't move at light speed in her human form and since it she hasn't really went into it in fights so yes it does change her whole fighting style

I read her solo series and it didn't really mention how she is able to move at lightspeed without changing into light so it's an outlier.

That would be an outlier if that happened

Just like the human lightspeed monica

Again, Her powers and fighting style completely changed and in both Women of Marvel and Thunderbolts she adopted the new fighting style and can you show me scans of her failing against TP beyond that one character that was faster than her in Ultimates

What's so special about her new fighting style and jean used TP to take her out in 1986 and thanos psychic energy was able to overpower her even when she flew into his eye.

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Scarlet_Wiccan

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@mage101:

I read her solo series and it didn't really mention how she is able to move at lightspeed without changing into light so it's an outlier.

Here are some examples of her doing stuff within the fraction of a second in her solo book all without turning into her energy form

Here are examples of her blitzing in her human form

What's so special about her new fighting style and jean used TP to take her out in 1986 and thanos psychic energy was able to overpower her even when she flew into his eye.

Now she doesn't have to change into her energy form in fights whereas she did in the past. Monica and Jean weren't fighting when Jean was in the cacoon and she couldn't take Thanos down before he could affect her due to his durability but that's not the case in this fight

Anyhow Monica still jobs a lot but she definitely has the potential to blitz if she's serious enough and has the best here consistently

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Mage101

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@scarlet_wiccan:

Here are some examples of her doing stuff within the fraction of a second in her solo book all without turning into her energy form

You do realise that Monica can alter her form while in lightform to look normal so there's no indication that she did that while in human form and Monica hasn't shown to be able to move at lights speed while in human form.

Here are examples of her blitzing in her human form

Two scans of her blitzing doesn't mean that it's consistent.

Now she doesn't have to change into her energy form in fights whereas she did in the past

There's no place in the story that stated this.

Monica and Jean weren't fighting when Jean was in the cacoon and she couldn't take Thanos down before he could affect her due to his durability but that's not the case in this fight

But jean mentally sent a warning to her and Monica couldn't resist so what's your point. Monica said that he's mental energies pushed her out or something like that, she mentioned nothing about durability and my point there was that psychic energy can affect her offensively.

Anyhow Monica still jobs a lot but she definitely has the potential to blitz if she's serious enough and has the best here consistently

A character that jobs a lot but have few showings doesn't look like a character that's very consistent. You have to look at number of appearance to determine who's more consistent and with a character like Monica who isn't really consistent but have way less appearance isn't good for her.

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Scarlet_Wiccan

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@mage101:

You do realise that Monica can alter her form while in lightform to look normal so there's no indication that she did that while in human form and Monica hasn't shown to be able to move at lights speed while in human form.

But why would she switch to her light form and make herself look normal before doing the stuff she does in the scans?

Two scans of her blitzing doesn't mean that it's consistent.

I didn't say it was, I'm just pointing out that currently she can blitz without being in her light form

But jean mentally sent a warning to her and Monica couldn't resist so what's your point. Monica said that he's mental energies pushed her out or something like that, she mentioned nothing about durability and my point there was that psychic energy can affect her offensively.

The cacoon protected Jean and Monica wasn't attacking her or wasn't aware of Jean's presence in the cacoon. I didn't say she's immune to psychic energy I'm saying she's consistently significantly faster than Team 1 in any way you look at it, whether it's light speed or not and can therefore blitz them

A character that jobs a lot but have few showings doesn't look like a character that's very consistent. You have to look at number of appearance to determine who's more consistent and with a character like Monica who isn't really consistent but have way less appearance isn't good for her.

I'm saying Monica doesn't fight as effectively as she could be given her powers but that doesn't mean everything she does is inconsistent

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marvelfan1992

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@mage101 Bro...they're not handling Monica. Get over it

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Mage101

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@mage101 Bro...they're not handling Monica. Get over it

I read a lot of Monica to know that she isn't the way people make her to be I mean can you show any proof of her blitzing consistently.

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Mage101

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#30  Edited By Mage101

@scarlet_wiccan:

But why would she switch to her light form and make herself look normal before doing the stuff she does in the scans?

Your first scan shows Monica changing her costume to her normal clothes, the second and third scan shows Monica just travelling, the scan never showed Monica switching from light form to human form before she did those stuff.

I didn't say it was, I'm just pointing out that currently she can blitz without being in her light form

You can clearly see a light aura around Monica

No Caption Provided

Light aura to show that's she's still light my dear

No Caption Provided

Again you can see light around her, Monica doesn't always have to look like a yellow shiny object for her to be light she has shown that she can alter her form while in light form

The cacoon protected Jean and Monica wasn't attacking her or wasn't aware of Jean's presence in the cacoon.

My point is that Monica doesn't have any mental defense, even though she wasn't attacking she couldn't defend from the TP

I didn't say she's immune to psychic energy I'm saying she's consistently significantly faster than Team 1 in any way you look at it, whether it's light speed or not and can therefore blitz them

I know that she can blitz but I don't see it happening, based on what I've seen from Monica and she has been absorbed before, I don't see why it doesn't happen again.

I'm saying Monica doesn't fight as effectively as she could be given her powers but that doesn't mean everything she does is inconsistent

The same can also be said for other characters, look at characters like Magento who have no superspeed but react fast just because of skill, if he fails to do the same it's inconsistent but Monica's excuse is that she isn't fighting effectively, Monica has less of an excuse to job because of her powers. Let me give you an example. Who do you think should logically be less effective in speed, wonder woman or the flash?

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Scarlet_Wiccan

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#31  Edited By Scarlet_Wiccan

@mage101:

Your first scan shows Monica changing her costume to her normal clothes, the second and third scan shows Monica just travelling, the scan never showed Monica switching from light form to human form before she did those stuff.

She did all that in a fraction of a second while in her human form and was never in her light form

You can clearly see a light aura around Monica

Yes but she's in her human form and not in her light form

My point is that Monica doesn't have any mental defense, even though she wasn't attacking she couldn't defend from the TP

I never said she did

I know that she can blitz but I don't see it happening, based on what I've seen from Monica and she has been absorbed before, I don't see why it doesn't happen again.

Because now she doesn't switch into her energy form in fights like she always used to

The same can also be said for other characters, look at characters like Magento who have no superspeed but react fast just because of skill, if he fails to do the same it's inconsistent but Monica's excuse is that she isn't fighting effectively, Monica has less of an excuse to job because of her powers. Let me give you an example. Who do you think should logically be less effective in speed, wonder woman or the flash?

Magneto has a slew of anti-feats and have been blitzed by peak humans a lot plus he doesn't have anywhere near as many impressive speed feats as Monica does. What would you say is Monica's consistent speed? Because I helped make her respect thread and can tell you that she has better speed then the entire Team 1 no matter how you look at it, her average speed is still way more than any of theirs

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Mage101

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@mage101:

She did all that in a fraction of a second while in her human form and was never in her light form

Monica can alter her light form to look human and even shapeshift Here she uses her powers to make light holograms that look exactly like her

Yes but she's in her human form and not in her light form

The comic never implied that Monica was in human form and Monica can make her light form look human so I don't get why you're stating something that has never happened.

I never said she did

Ok.

Because now she doesn't switch into her energy form in fights like she always used to

This isn't true Monica is literally light and has shown that she can alter her light form. Here she shapeshifts into a man and changes back to herself while going intangible and she looked human but was obviously light.. Monica has never been shown to be able to use her powers in human form, that is the reason why she lost her immortality and became human in no road home. Again she uses her powers while looking human over a decade ago. Makes herself look like Adam. So the whole Monica used her powers in human form is incorrect because Monica can make herself look human while in energy form and has been doing this for years even before her previous amp.

Magneto has a slew of anti-feats and have been blitzed by peak humans a lot plus he doesn't have anywhere near as many impressive speed feats as Monica does. What would you say is Monica's consistent speed? Because I helped make her respect thread and can tell you that she has better speed then the entire Team 1 no matter how you look at it, her average speed is still way more than any of theirs

Did I ever argue that their speed was better or that she was less faster than team one? No, my point is that she rarely blitz which will make her easier to put down via absorption or TP.

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yuuki157

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Team Omega Level

Sersi is the weak link

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Scarlet_Wiccan

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@mage101:

Monica can alter her light form to look human and even shapeshift Here she uses her powers to make light holograms that look exactly like her

I know she can but why would she switch into her light form then make herself look human only to transport people or to change her clothes?

This isn't true Monica is literally light and has shown that she can alter her light form. Here she shapeshifts into a man and changes back to herself while going intangible and she looked human but was obviously light.. Monica has never been shown to be able to use her powers in human form, that is the reason why she lost her immortality and became human in no road home. Again she uses her powers while looking human over a decade ago. Makes herself look like Adam. So the whole Monica used her powers in human form is incorrect because Monica can make herself look human while in energy form and has been doing this for years even before her previous

She was amped in both those instances and was permanently made of energy but in No Road Home she lost said amp and is went back to being human

Did I ever argue that their speed was better or that she was less faster than team one? No, my point is that she rarely blitz which will make her easier to put down via absorption or TP.

Fair enough

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Mage101

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#35  Edited By Mage101

@mage101:

I know she can but why would she switch into her light form then make herself look human only to transport people or to change her clothes?

Your scan only showed monica transporting people and not changing from light to human. The fact that she was able to transform her clothes to her civilian clothes while in "human" form only proves my point or does monica have transmutation abilities.

She was amped in both those instances and was permanently made of energy but in No Road Home she lost said amp and is went back to being human

But monica has been able to alter her looks even before the amp and she even did it in her solo book so this isn't really a point. The point of the amp was that she was immortal and permanently in energy form, it didn't give her extra abilities.

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Scarlet_Wiccan

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@mage101:

Your scan only showed monica transporting people and not changing from light to human. The fact that she was able to transform her clothes to her civilian clothes while in "human" form only proves my point or does monica have transmutation abilities.

Because she was never in her light form to begin with in any of the scans I posted. It's possible to change clothes with energy like Storm and Crystal does

But monica has been able to alter her looks even before the amp and she even did it in her solo book so this isn't really a point. The point of the amp was that she was immortal and permanently in energy form, it didn't give her extra abilities.

Exactly, She had to make herself look human with the amp but not anymore, Now she's permanently in her human form and can shift into her energy form as seen here

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Mooty_Pass

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Well, this was a nice Discussion. :-) Very Short and straight to the point.

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destinyman75

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Sue Storm>> anyone here Tough fight could see either way but Sue is the reason her team can win

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marygcrisostomo

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Sersi and Moondragon severely drag Team 2 down but Monica can blitz the entirety of Team 1 if she's determined enough

Scarlet_Wiccan gives a good summary for this battle. She is the saving grace that will turn this fight in favor for her team

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Mage101

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@scarlet_wiccan:

Because she was never in her light form to begin with in any of the scans I posted. It's possible to change clothes with energy like Storm and Crystal does

And how do you know that she was never in light form, Monica can look anyhow she wants to in light form by bending light. But Monica has never shown to be able to bend light in human form, you're simply implying things that she hasn't done when there's a logical explanation for what she did there.

Exactly, She had to make herself look human with the amp but not anymore, Now she's permanently in her human form and can shift into her energy form as seen here

My point is that there's no evidence or reason to suggest that Monica was not in her light form in that comic, I don't think marvel has ever stated how long Monica can stay in her energy form so I don't see why she wasn't light throughout the comic. Look I'm only stating this because Monica has never done what you're implying and the comic never really gave any explanation.

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Mage101

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#41  Edited By Mage101

Sue Storm>> anyone here Tough fight could see either way but Sue is the reason her team can win

This isn't true lol, how does she counter TP or a non jobbing iceman.

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Eurydice225

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Avengers team needs better telepaths to have a better chance

But the wheel could spin if Sue decides to play dirty

60/40 to Omega Level

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Scarlet_Wiccan

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@mage101 said:
@destinyman75 said:

Sue Storm>> anyone here Tough fight could see either way but Sue is the reason her team can win

This isn't true lol, how does she counter TP or a non jobbing iceman.

I won't go into the TP argument since it would just snowball into me having to repeat myself nonstop to people who clearly made up their minds no matter what but I will say Sue could simply knock out Iceman with blunt force which wouldn't require a lot of effort or compress him into a singularity if she's really pushed

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Pupumplanet

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@mage101: In Monica Rambeau :Photon (2022), she says her powers are nearly limitless. And she can't control it That makes Carol more powerful than Monica. Because now she had enormously more power. and is said to be 'Without Limit' in The Avengers 2023 before she overcomes Entropy's power

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GodlyShinigami

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#45  Edited By GodlyShinigami

@geekryan said:

The only way I see the mutants winning is if Jean and Exodus both immediately go for a telepathic assault. That would be way too much for Moondragon and Sersi to counter and everyone else would go down right away.

In every other scenario, the Avengers Ladies win.

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Mage101

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@mage101 said:
@destinyman75 said:

Sue Storm>> anyone here Tough fight could see either way but Sue is the reason her team can win

This isn't true lol, how does she counter TP or a non jobbing iceman.

I won't go into the TP argument since it would just snowball into me having to repeat myself nonstop to people who clearly made up their minds no matter what but I will say Sue could simply knock out Iceman with blunt force which wouldn't require a lot of effort or compress him into a singularity if she's really pushed

Iceman is basically immune to blunt force I mean, especially in recent years so that's that. Iceman is basically consciousness compressing him won't work.

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Scarlet_Wiccan

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#47  Edited By Scarlet_Wiccan

@mage101:

Iceman is basically immune to blunt force I mean, especially in recent years so that's that. Iceman is basically consciousness compressing him won't work.

He can still be harmed and knocked unconscious and this from the same writer who has been giving him his best feats for the last few years

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Mage101

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@scarlet_wiccan: Where's that comic from? Because it seems like major PIS just like sue Shields being one shot by savage she hulk. Recent iceman was able to reform his body when storm repeatedly destroyed it,he also did the same thing in the X-Men series and has done it repeatedly even when fighting more powerful opponents like storm and I don't think those two are more powerful. It seems like there's context or it's just PIS, iceman has taken attacks from Thor, juggernaut, storm lightning without being knocked out so I think that's a PIS showing.

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Scarlet_Wiccan

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#49  Edited By Scarlet_Wiccan

@mage101:

Where's that comic from? Because it seems like major PIS just like sue Shields being one shot by savage she hulk. Recent iceman was able to reform his body when storm repeatedly destroyed it,he also did the same thing in the X-Men series and has done it repeatedly even when fighting more powerful opponents like storm and I don't think those two are more powerful. It seems like there's context or it's just PIS, iceman has taken attacks from Thor, juggernaut, storm lightning without being knocked out so I think that's a PIS showing.

Both instances are from Marauders, Him being knocked unconscious or being harmed doesn't contradict him reforming his body if it's destroyed, Think of it like Wolverine can heal but he can still be harmed or knocked out. Iceman taking hits from Thor and Juggernaut would be outliers or high-ends since he gets shattered by much weaker stuff all the time

But anyway if Bobby's not holding back then Sue isn't holding back and a serious Sue >>>> a serious Bobby

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Mage101

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@scarlet_wiccan:

Both instances are from Marauders, Him being knocked unconscious or being harmed doesn't contradict him reforming his body if it's destroyed,

I don't remember Bobby doing anything special in marauders in fact the book had him and storm job. The point is that Bobby doesn't get knocked out in ice form, he gets destroyed then reform, if he does like you're making it seem then why didn't he get knocked out while fighting Thor, juggernaut or storm, those three have stronger blunt force than that villain.

Think of it like Wolverine can heal but he can still be harmed or knocked out.

Not the same thing, iceman in ice form is pure consciousness without anything making him human, I mean this dude can be a hundred icemen but wolverine can't.

Iceman taking hits from Thor and Juggernaut would be outliers or high-ends since he gets shattered by much weaker stuff all the time

They're not outliers because his body got destroyed in both instances but he was able to reform immediately, that's my point. And Bobby can control the density of his ice.

But anyway if Bobby's not holding back then Sue isn't holding back and a serious Sue >>>> a serious Bobby

This doesn't provide anyway sue can defeat bobby unless we use PIS feats.