Old Maul vs. Ben Kenobi - (Round 7)

@kbroskywalker: The official episode description.

3×20 "Twin Suns" – 3/18/2017

Reacting to a vision of Maul, Ezra defies Hera and Kanan to travel to a remote planet in hopes of stopping the former Sith lord from carrying out his plans.

@frankenmidget: Given that its in defiance of kanan, I'd imagine him trying to interfere ends up backfiring with kenobi having to save him

Welp. That was decisive.

Very decisive

Well that wasn't worth the hype. smh

The most heretical thing in the history of SW happened today.

Lol, what the heck was that. Did Kenobi cut Maul's lightsaber and then Maul died on his own ? ...

@erkan12: No, He sliced him vertically in the chest.

I don't see any wound.

That was a bit lame. I agree its hard to tell what happened because there doesn't seem to be a mark on Maul. My guess is Obi-wan sliced his chest.

All though out of curiosity what does this mean for the hierarchy? I know there has been some debate about Ahsoka vs Maul who was stronger between them but they were reasonably close, but does that mean Obi-wan is above Maul and Ahsoka? But Vader is suppose to be more powerful than him and he had a hard time with Ahsoka, so would Obi-wans fight with Maul be PIS or am I missing something?

@erkan12: Yes. I've watched the entire episode. He casually parries a couple strikes and slices him down the chest. There are sparks from his chest as well as smoke after. When watching it live it was pretty clear what happened.

I don't see any smoke here.

Also it should cut his head first before the chest, but there is no wound on his head as well, I seriously don't see any wound here.

There is a spark on the lightsaber, however no spark on Maul's body.

In Kanan's case, you can see the smoke here and very clearly ;

Also no pain reaction from Maul to the wound if there is any, I mean, he should scream at least if there is any wound.

I guess we need hear it from the producers what really happened.

The fact that the entire fight can be posted as a GIF is kind of comical.

I know it's bullshit, he shouldn't even cut his lightsaber, but I just want to know what happened.

He could, he was surviving with his rage and his hatred, if he loses his goal, he could die because he wanted to die. I mean he survived a bisection, you think a slight chest wound would kill him ? And then Kenobi holds Maul, as if he isn't his enemy anymore, then Maul asked him if he is the chosen one or not, as if Maul gave up on his own from his revenge, there is something weird going on out there.

@ordeith: Dude... I have no problem with it, believe me. I don't care if they would make Kenobi one-shot Maul instead of three-shots, it's just weird how he dies, no pain scream, no lightsaber wound, and then Kenobi holds Maul as if he is friend as if he gave up on his own, then Maul says he will avenge ''us'' ... etc. This scene is not a usual dying scene at all.

There is smoke directly coming from Maul's body when Obi Wan closes his eyes, and they show a shot of him crouching and holding Maul, from a few metres away. So I guess he was slashed in the chest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxBr95D1WrU

At 4:44

Though the thing was anti-climatic to say the least. I had hoped for a "fight".

That was the most satisfying thing I've ever seen.

He was definitely slashed in the chest in the same move that destroyed the saberstaff.

Kenobi stomps lmao

Maul always sucked

So new Canon has Vader and now Kenobi, specifically his Ben incarnation, much higher than we ever had them before the EU was wiped, it seems.

Kenobi has all the reason to diminish under his circumstances, while Maul has all the reason to increase or at least not decrease as he's stayed quite active and involved.. yet Kenobi dispatches him with almost comical ease.

My question now is, does this do more for Kenobi, or more against Maul? Does this not, by extension make Vader seem even more powerful and skilled?

This was interesting and.. unexpected.

What the fuck was that....

Mmm, that's really bad for Maul (ILS will kill himself), but great for Vader. Kenobi basically stomped Maul. Perhaps Ben didn't decline in skill after all in the new canon. Unless the authors or some new sourcebook provide some reasonable excuse for Maul's performance of course. Maybe Maul was tired due to wandering in the desert?

It could be argued that Maul's allusion to Luke induced a oneness-like state in Obi-Wan.

Maybe. Though not likely. That's happened before with him against A'Sharad, and a similar outcome ensues, but that's because he became aggressive and decided to end the fight quickly, not because he entered "oneness" or anything similar. Here, he decides to be defensive adopting the Soresu position but changes his mind and shifts to the Ataru stance afterwards, indicating that he intends to finish the fight once and for all.

Though, we'll have to wait for Filoni's words on this, since this is too much of a wreckage.

Maul has decreased in skill.

Without the hands of Sidious to shape him, he's a failure . The portrayal couldn't be any clearer.

To add; I don't think the writers are interested in representing any sort of structure regarding power levels.

Ashoka vs Vader is a drawn out battle and she even manages to tag him, yet she's implied to be weaker than Maul by SW.com. Then this happens.

So Ben cuts Maul's lightsaber and the lightsaber sparks kills Maul?

WTF.

Michael Bay could have done a better job tbh.

Lol maul is pathetic! He got one-shotted!

And the Maul lowball fest continues.

And to think that I was swarmed when I said that Ahsoka could one-shot Maul some time before. And now look at this!

I was saying that Rebels Maul is past his prime in Rebels, and even Sam Witwer has (Maul's voice actor from TCW and Rebels) confirmed it in an interview and thanks to our beloved SW followers I was almost changing my mind and now we've this...

But he’s not ready to change his ways yet …

Witwer: He has this ambition that still exists inside him and that ambition is eating him up –especially now that he’s past his prime and his glory years. Yeah, he’s a sadder character than we perhaps remember in Clone Wars.

Dave, you’ve had Ezra pulled between both the light and the dark side of the Force. Is Maul a cautionary tale for him? An example of what not to do?

Filoni: This whole season has been about getting Ezra to kind of explore the dark side of the Force and be aware of its existence on a powerful level that maybe he didn’t understand before. It’s really kind of an Empire Strikes Back movement for the series, where we bring the dark side out more to our heroes and challenge them with it. It’s going to get pretty crazy before the end here.

--- http://www.ew.com/article/2016/03/24/darth-maul-returns-star-wars-rebels

Anyways I think it's safe to assume that TCW Maul > TPM Maul > Rebels Maul at this point. Maul indeed past his prime. I mean even amped TCW S5 Kenobi was unable to cut Maul in Florrum, and he has been defeated in Turtle Tunker before that, it's almost impossible for him to do the same to TCW Maul, who has feats against the likes of Mace Windu and Sidious.

And she didn't one-shot Old Maul because... ?

She isn't even superior to Old Maul.

@erkan12: She didn't go serious obviously. A blood lusted Ahsoka would fodderize Maul.

@soimme: Ahsoka didn't go seriously? According to who? Your own headcanon? She did fight seriously. And guess what? StarWars.Com has implied that Ahsoka is inferior to Maul.

@soimme: Right, she left him alone with Blind Kanan, she sure knew that Kanan would win, she didn't need to defeat him.

Well that was disappointing.

Both as a fight and storywise.

@yousufkhan1212: Implications from a site that's not even definitely canon say little.

@yousufkhan1212

Well, Maul has continuously grown throughout his life:

Although he has grown older and gained new abilities throughout his life, Darth Maul still builds on the teachings he received from Darth Sidious. Now, he’s trying to pass them on to Ezra Bridger.

Credit: Starwars.com, Darth Maul:The Story of an Apprentice

Never mind, Ahsoka fodderzing Maul is as ridiculous as saying that Sidious couldn't have if he didn't toy with him.

The Witwer quote could be referring to his prime and glory years as the time when his power on Mandalore, or as Sidious's apprentice was firm, when he controlled a full planet, or had the galaxy before him as the heir to the Sith. Though it could refer to this as well.

Honestly, we don't know what happened there. We have limited knowledge on the characters. A TV show is all there is. Maybe wait until a novel, or something comes out, and then we can accurately judge them with respect to their previous selves.

that was.. disappointing but I have found interesting comment about this fight:

Obi-Wan changed his stance to that of Qui Gon, fooling the hate blinded Maul into thinking he could use the same lightsaber-hilt trick that killed Qui Gon. But Kenobi was too good for that.

What do you think?

According to the incompetent Rebels producers, they wanted to make a ''Bunt Samurai Rebellion'' finale rip-off for this episode... But obviously people who follows starwars will not accept that and rightfully mock with Maul, this is not a samurai movie,

But this is starwars, duels doesn't work like that, and Lucas would never let that happen.

@xerolot: I'd say it's the most likely explanation. In my opinion, some people are looking at this fight in totally the wrong way. The outcome of this fight wasn't meant to show a stark contrast between the lightsaber skill of Kenobi and Maul. It was to show a contrast between the mindsets of the two characters, and how they have evolved in the years since the Clone Wars. During their respective exiles, both Kenobi and Maul would have naturally declined physically and in a few other aspects, and presumably at a somewhat similar rate. But whilst Maul has been spending his exile festering in a cave on a darkside world and constantly plotting revenge against all those who have wronged him, Kenobi has put aside his past grudges and is focused on his mission to protect Luke and to become the ideal Jedi role model for him when he comes of age. Kenobi has become a Jedi of pure clarity, whereas Maul has become a Sith of pure, blinded rage. Kenobi would have felt the rage within Maul, and would have surely known how impulsive it would make him. So instead of clashing blades with Maul head on, he attempted a sly ploy that would make Maul greatly overextend himself and put himself in an extremely vulnerable position ( a bit like how he goaded Anakin to jump and charge at him on the high ground) . This ploy worked, and Maul was quickly dispatched of. Again, not because there is any substantial difference in skill between the two, but because Kenobi's calm, focused and clear mindset made him the perfect match for the blinded, frenzied Maul. A polar opposite. This may be the same reason why Maul was so easily beaten by Kanan in Season Two. In that encounter, Kanan had a focused and clear mindset and waited for Maul to act, whereas Maul simply charged expecting an easy victory. The difference between Kanan and Kenobi is that Kanan's heightened state of clarity was temporary, whereas Kenobi's state of clarity was something that he had been working on achieving for more than a decade at the time of his duel with Maul. Kanan is also a Soresu practitioner, a form that is centered around waiting the opponent to expose themselves while remaining on the defensive, so the parallels are there. But even if you don't accept that comparison, I still think the thing about the mindsets is a good explanation for this debacle.