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#51 Posted by Azronger (4334 posts) - - Show Bio

@shootingnova: He built on Sidious' teachings, which would include lightsaber combat and the Force.

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#52 Posted by ShootingNova (25691 posts) - - Show Bio

@azronger: Which just means he's building on technical knowledge or something else that he's gained from Sidious. In no way does that preclude him from atrophying in skill.

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#53 Posted by AlexTheBoss (18618 posts) - - Show Bio

Appeals to false authority. ILS can come here and defend his favourite 'Sith Lord' if he wants. In spite of the glaring evidence that Maul is a failure as a fighter a scheming mastermind and a character.

Funny thing is he is the exact opposite in episode 1, lol.

Though he isn't a failure as a fighter. It is gone in more depth on why he lost so easily in rebels recon.

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#54 Edited by Erkan12 (8477 posts) - - Show Bio

@bane_train said:

The quote : "Darth Maul still builds on the teachings he received from Darth Sidious" If taken as canon (it isn't) still does not preclude the notion that his physical abilities and his lightsaber combat have declined. Which is the most logical conclusion.

The teachings part obviously referring to the context of ''new abilities'' which is dark side knowledge. Anyways, it's not even canon, it's from some other people's blog, it's not directly from starwars.com, and it's obvious that Maul's physical and saber combat skills have declined in Malachor, Sidious has grown physically weaker in OT where he started to use a walking stick,

No Caption Provided

Possessed of the boundless power of the Force and adept in the ways of the dark side, Emperor Palpatine was one of the most dangerous and evil Humans in galactic history. As his corruption grew stronger, the Emperor became physically weaker, but he was never helpless.

Source: The Dark Side Sourcebook

It's the same for Maul,

No Caption Provided

Which makes him a lesser duelist than TPM / RotS Maul, just as RotJ Sidious was a lesser duelist than TPM / RotS Sidious.

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#55 Edited by Bane_Train (236 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss said:
@bane_train said:

Appeals to false authority. ILS can come here and defend his favourite 'Sith Lord' if he wants. In spite of the glaring evidence that Maul is a failure as a fighter a scheming mastermind and a character.

Funny thing is he is the exact opposite in episode 1, lol.

Though he isn't a failure as a fighter. It is gone in more depth on why he lost so easily in rebels recon.

Maul was good as Sidious' badass killing machine. The praise ends there.

The attempt to turn him into a pseudo mastermind with goals of his own screamed of fail. There were people trying to push this agenda, that Maul was a sorcerer/magician. A respected apprentice who had been treated as a an actual Rule of Two Sith Lord. That he was a recipient of vast amounts of cunning in a manipulation sense. In the end, he could barely turn a naive boy to his cause and never showed anything more esoteric than a force grip in battle. He was merely a demon-faced dude, with skill in fighting and could survive being cut in half.

In Rebels, he doesn't even have those attributes.

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#56 Edited by Erkan12 (8477 posts) - - Show Bio

@bane_train said:
. In the end, he could barely turn a naive boy to his cause

He used Ezra as far as he could, first he unlocked the secret of the Sith temple by manipulating Ezra, which is something Vader couldn't do, which is why he asked Ezra to how did he accomplish that, and then he gained the knowledge of Kenobi's location from Ezra by manipulating him. Ezra didn't turn to the dark side, because at the time he was already trained by Kanan and he had a family and friends to protect, and that was the reason why he didn't turn quickly, without that he would turn to the dark side easily. Even then, he was able to manipulate Ezra with TP, and Ezra at the time was already a proficient telepath. Without that abilities, he couldn't find Kenobi in Tatooine, and again, this is something even Vader failed to do; finding Kenobi.

@bane_train said:
never showed anything more esoteric than a force grip in battle. He was merely a demon-faced dude, with skill in fighting and could survive being cut in half.

And you think Bane is more esoteric because of Force lightning ? Or better, Vader doesn't even have that power, and you think he isn't even a Sith Lord ? Force lightning is nice, but it's not a game changer ability as we've seen from how Quinlan Vos defeated Dooku 2 times despite the Force lightning ability.

@bane_train said:
@alextheboss said:
@bane_train said:

Appeals to false authority. ILS can come here and defend his favourite 'Sith Lord' if he wants. In spite of the glaring evidence that Maul is a failure as a fighter a scheming mastermind and a character.

Funny thing is he is the exact opposite in episode 1, lol.

Though he isn't a failure as a fighter. It is gone in more depth on why he lost so easily in rebels recon.

Maul was good as Sidious' badass killing machine. The praise ends there.

The attempt to turn him into a pseudo mastermind with goals of his own screamed of fail. There were people trying to push this agenda, that Maul was a sorcerer/magician. A respected apprentice who had been treated as a an actual Rule of Two Sith Lord. That he was a recipient of vast amounts of cunning in a manipulation sense.

Not the people, the actual canon says.

A deadly, agile Sith Lord trained by the evil Darth Sidious, Darth Maul was a formidable warrior and scheming mastermind.

http://www.starwars.com/databank/darth-maul

@bane_train said:

In Rebels, he doesn't even have those attributes.

He simply gets old, not even Sidious or Yoda could escape from the effects of the old age.

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#57 Posted by deactivated-5c508820920c0 (887 posts) - - Show Bio

Kas'im at this point, to be honest. I'm sure the fight in Rebels has a specific reason why it's like that - whether it's a call back to classic samurai movies or whatever - it still impacts negatively on Mual's position (or perhaps just raises Old Ben up quite a ways).

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#58 Posted by Geistalt (1264 posts) - - Show Bio

Spite match.

Kas'im stomps.

Canon sucks caulk.

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#59 Edited by Erkan12 (8477 posts) - - Show Bio

If this is SWR S2 Maul, he still wins. If you take SWR S3 Maul he loses, because Maul was ''hung up'' on that exact moment, and broken and a lost person.

Dave Filoni : “Maul, for his part, is pretty much hung up on that exact moment. That’s where his life went wrong. He can’t let it go.

''So Obi-Wan is going to strike down Maul because Maul is such a broken and lost person,''

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#60 Posted by bigsambino87 (1754 posts) - - Show Bio

With a clear mind, Maul takes a hard fought victory.

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#61 Posted by deactivated-5a98875cd0f94 (2257 posts) - - Show Bio

Maul. The thirsty, hungry, Twin Suns Maul who had his legs falling out narrowly scrapes it, but a fully fresh Maul wins. Maul's mind can't be clear, since he is an emotional wreck at this point and is a revenge-obsessed psycho.

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#62 Posted by LordOfTheLight (2679 posts) - - Show Bio

Maul was always insane. That didn't affect him negatively, it only made him stronger.

And in a way we were making a statement that while he composed himself, the madness was always there. The despair, the suffering, none of it has been healed, in any way. Mother Talzin doing all that she did and Maul putting together a shadow collective and conquering Mandalore... All the things he did, he never really left that cave where Savage found him.”

Added Witwer, “One thing to remember about Maul is that the Maul you saw in in that cave [on Clone Wars], the spider Maul, that’s the subtext to everything he does. That’s the way that I look at it. He can’t hold it back in this moment. And of course, once he feels like he’s going to get what he wants, he starts hiding again. But that’s always inside him. It also makes a statement of ‘Can this guy be saved?” Or will he even allow himself to be saved? Or is it best that we put him down like a rabid dog?’”

Credit: http://au.ign.com/articles/2017/03/17/star-wars-rebels-sam-witwer-previews-darth-mauls-confrontation-with-obi-wan-kenobi

All the pain, the rage only makes him stronger. Moreso, because this is his longtime rival, and he will be operating at his peak when facing him.

He was always out of control. Even "if" he was more out of control here( which he wasn't, and contrary to it in fact), where did he get the power to stay alive after being cut in half? The madness fuels his rage and despair and makes him more powerful than before. And since this is Obi Wan, by default, his anger and focus will be at an optimal level when facing him.

And stop twisting the quote. It says Obi Wan will strike Maul down out of compassion, meaning that it is Obi Wan's choice to fight that is being shown there. He views Maul as being lost and broken, and out of selflessness, decides to strike him down and to put him out of his misery. There is something called context.

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#63 Posted by AlexTheBoss (18618 posts) - - Show Bio

Maul. The thirsty, hungry, Twin Suns Maul who had his legs falling out narrowly scrapes it, but a fully fresh Maul wins. Maul's mind can't be clear, since he is an emotional wreck at this point and is a revenge-obsessed psycho.

Maul's mind can't be clear while fighting Kenobi. I mean he obviously will never be 100% focused, but against random opponents he should be fine, as he was fine against the inquisitors and Ahsoka.

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#64 Posted by Smoke-W (424 posts) - - Show Bio
@thesithmaster said:

Maul. The thirsty, hungry, Twin Suns Maul who had his legs falling out narrowly scrapes it, but a fully fresh Maul wins. Maul's mind can't be clear, since he is an emotional wreck at this point and is a revenge-obsessed psycho.

Maul's mind can't be clear while fighting Kenobi. I mean he obviously will never be 100% focused, but against random opponents he should be fine, as he was fine against the inquisitors and Ahsoka.

Or Kanan :)

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#65 Edited by AlexTheBoss (18618 posts) - - Show Bio

@smoke-w said:
@alextheboss said:
@thesithmaster said:

Maul. The thirsty, hungry, Twin Suns Maul who had his legs falling out narrowly scrapes it, but a fully fresh Maul wins. Maul's mind can't be clear, since he is an emotional wreck at this point and is a revenge-obsessed psycho.

Maul's mind can't be clear while fighting Kenobi. I mean he obviously will never be 100% focused, but against random opponents he should be fine, as he was fine against the inquisitors and Ahsoka.

Or Kanan :)

lmao, true.

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#66 Posted by deactivated-5a98875cd0f94 (2257 posts) - - Show Bio

@AlexTheBoss:

SWR Maul changes a lot from S2 to S3. In S2, he still has some of his intelligence, and his revenge has a meaning. In S3, when he finds out Kenobi is alive, he starts talking differently, with his weird half-cry half-laugh thingy, and he becomes obsessed with a pointless revenge on Kenobi. And he becomes naturally angry and reckless when fighting Kenobi, yes. But his mental sanity seriously deteriorated overall.

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#67 Edited by Erkan12 (8477 posts) - - Show Bio

@smoke-w said:
@alextheboss said:
@thesithmaster said:

Maul. The thirsty, hungry, Twin Suns Maul who had his legs falling out narrowly scrapes it, but a fully fresh Maul wins. Maul's mind can't be clear, since he is an emotional wreck at this point and is a revenge-obsessed psycho.

Maul's mind can't be clear while fighting Kenobi. I mean he obviously will never be 100% focused, but against random opponents he should be fine, as he was fine against the inquisitors and Ahsoka.

Or Kanan :)

Kanan was blind at the moment. You need to give a solid reason for why he should underestimate Kas'im... Maul's weakness is underestimating ''seemingly'' weak opponents, that I would agree.

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#68 Posted by AlexTheBoss (18618 posts) - - Show Bio

@thesithmaster: Yes, learning of Kenobi made him obsess over him. I still don't think that would hinder him too much vs random opponents, unless they were in his way of finding Kenobi.

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#69 Posted by deactivated-5a98875cd0f94 (2257 posts) - - Show Bio

@AlexTheBoss:

He is hindered even more by Kenobi, but he is kinda crazy by himself at this point. Against Kenobi, he is more hindered, but that doesn't stop him from being hindered against other opponents.

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#70 Posted by AlexTheBoss (18618 posts) - - Show Bio

@thesithmaster: He still probably wouldn't lose to anyone lower than Grievous or Ventress level if he is taking them seriously.

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#71 Posted by deactivated-5a98875cd0f94 (2257 posts) - - Show Bio
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#72 Posted by Dawn_of_Ages (2528 posts) - - Show Bio

Not sure

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#73 Posted by Dawn_of_Ages (2528 posts) - - Show Bio

Rebels Maul is inquisitor level or slightly above in sabers. :)

Because trashing multiple Inquisitors simultaneously definitely means he's on their level.

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#74 Posted by dark-sith123 (5034 posts) - - Show Bio

lock thread

maul has no chance

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#75 Posted by HitTheAssasin (8500 posts) - - Show Bio

Kas'im solos the verse.

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#76 Edited by Kilius (1625 posts) - - Show Bio

Kas'im. Unlike Maul Kas'im's skill was stated not to have dwindled from inactivity. He has achieved technical perfection and unlike KF Vader and Bane I don't think Maul is powerful enough in the Force to compensate.

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#77 Edited by Greysentinel365 (6354 posts) - - Show Bio

To drop the meme for a moment. Maul being able to give Vader a passable fight is more than enough to suggest he clowns Kas’im

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#78 Posted by dark-sith123 (5034 posts) - - Show Bio

maul's a mere acolyte, how can he beat a blademaster

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#79 Posted by In-sidiousvader (2536 posts) - - Show Bio

Kas'im Curbs

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#80 Posted by deactivated-5c359ed39a233 (290 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly, Maul.