Odin and Thor VS Kratos, Freya, and Atreus

Odin and Thor (w/ Mjolnir)

VS

Kratos, Freya, and Atrues

End of GOW Ragnarok versions.

Battle takes place in Asgard.

Who wins?

Odin by himself was JUST beneath the team, Thor is another Kratos or Freya.

Team 1

Atreus is non-factor, Kratos and Thor are equals. Freya loses to Odin. Kratos needs a better teammate.

Odin & Thor. From what we've seen Odin can already handle 2 of them at the same time and with Thor fighting by his side they would crush the team

@ssjosephstalin: @heiqn: @reyne-theabyss:

Great points however a few things.

Atreus isn’t a non-factor anymore. With his transformation abilities he was able to slightly contend with Kratos himself and even was able to assist in killing Hrist and Mist.

I don’t believe Kratos and Thor to be equals. At the end when Thor was going all out, Thor was the one who was overpowered, bloodied, and out of breath/exhausted. Kratos didn’t have a scratch on him and immediately was able to fight the All Father himself. In MMA it would be like him saying “I could go another 5 rounds!”

I do agree that one on one Odin would for sure beat Kratos though.

Doubt they're even equals anymore. A held back Kratos won against a blood-lusted Thor.

I'm backing team 2.

We've already seen a holding-back Kratos beating a bloodlusted Thor. So if Kartos actually goes for a kill, he should win pretty decisively. Furthermore, I don't think it's unreasonable to scale Freya above Thor. Kratos considered her the most formidable ally he could think of, which should include the likes of Jormungandr (the older one) and pre-Ragnarok Surtr. And if Mimir's stories are anything to go by, Odin tends to send Thor to deal with anyone who becomes an inconvenience to him. The fact he didn't send Thor after Freya (who was considered Odin's greatest enemy) speaks for itself. Alternatively, he did send Thor, but it was evidently non-successful.

As for Atreus, while definitely a weak link, he can still serve as a distraction in his rage mode.

And if what I already wrote wasn't clear enough, I don't buy into the whole "it took Kratos + Aterus + Freya to beat Odin" argument. He managed to immobilize Kratos and Atreus once with some sort of spell, and that was it. At later stages of the fight, Kratos is able to neg Odin's attempt to immobilize him in QTE. There's no statement suggesting it. In fact, there's a statement suggesting Sigrun (someone below Kratos) could potentially (and I emphasize potentially) solo Odin.

Thor and Kratos stalemate , they're both capable of killing each other , per Kratos , per Mimir , Per Matt Sophos , per Odin e.t.c. , overall due to greater versatility, skill and knowledge I would give it to Kratos but they would fight for way too long for Kratos and Thor to Matter much.

can Freya and Atreus defeat Odin? Absolutely not , Freya is pretty clearly inferior to Odin if Odin was confident in fighting her , Kratos and Freyr if Freyr as much as throws him the mask, he has mastered Seidr magic , and seeing how Freya struggled so much with Nidhogg while a young Odin killed Ymir downright I don't see how feats don't show Odin's superiority

No way was Kratos truly holding his strength back in the last fight with Thor, Thor commented every second in the first fight where Kratos was actually holding back , sure thing Kratos mayve been suppressing his killer instinct , but if he had used his killer instinct , Kratos would've met his fate of dying at Thor's hands just as the prophecy said.

The exact moment that changed Kratos's fate from the above and replaced it with Odin , was the moment where he told Atreus to open his heart.

Fate in the norse side of things is just powerful prediction based on how people act , its the same thing as many predicting world war I before World War I, its because people including Kratos are stubborn and selfish and if Kratos was such against Thor and fought merely to kill him , as the Norns said , he would've died , as they said "he still slays gods but now he feels bad about doing it?" , the above is the ending Kratos would've gotten had he not changed and fought Thor for just the sake of killing him.

they're both just relative tbf , by feats and by statements from many characters , neither the first or the second fight is display of who is stronger as in one they're both holding back immensely and in the other Thor just came off fighting Jormungandarr and Surtur and is having a mental breakdown while Kratos is trying to spare him.

so for the above reasons , and again many statements , its safer to say They're relative then declaring one decently superior to the other.

@maulsmacker:

So who do you believe wins? Also, who would add to either side to make it more fair?

Team 1 if Odin neutralizes freya first if not team 2

Personally , the Asgardians win pretty decisively for me , Kratos and Atreus working together weren't even able to make Odin bleed while he would've killed Kratos had Freya not intervened, Kratos and Thor are gonna be too busy with each other and Odin will defeat Freya pretty decisively , Atreus is a non factor even in his Bear form.

regarding to make it more fair , just remove Atreus and give the second side Surtur or Freyr or something , who are still decisively inferior to Thor, Odin and Kratos but would be much more a factor then Atreus , and at that point the matchup would likely be even.

@maulsmacker:

My original thought process was legit to add Freyr to the team of 3. But I also have Kratos > Thor by a pretty decent margin by the end of GOWR due to Kratos being fresh after their fight and Thor being much much slower to get up.

Also, I didn't see Atreus as a huge non-factor as his bear form was able to contend somewhat with Kratos and assist in defeating the Valkyrie duo.

@kal_el_batson: Bear Atreus lost to a holding back Kratos and a holding back Kratos lowkey died from a hammer slap to the face by a holding back Thor, The Bear maybe Valkyrie+ , maybe even superior to Baldur but compared to Thor/Odin/Kratos? eh , not sold.

it should be noted , that while Matt directly says Kratos would've died had he not opened his heart and tried to save Thor , Thor had been fighting both Jormungandarr and Surtur and was emotionally not invested or focused at all so I don't think that can be used to say that Thor is inferior , now you add in.

• Matt saying the prophecy would've played out had Kratos not changed and decided to spare Thor, aka Kratos dying to Thor if he hadn't tried to save Thor.
• Bruno downright saying he believes Kratos vs Thor is indecisive/draw.
• Thor witnessing Kratos's full power right to the face in the first fight , not being hurt , or remotely scered of Kratos.
• Kratos believing its a good thing him vs Thor didn't come to a conclusion , saying its a good thing for both which he implies is a good thing for both.
• Odin believing Thor would kill Kratos , his plan revolving around Thor basically dealing with Ragnarok himself , Kratos being decisively superior would make Odin look like a total idiot.

its much more consistent with both word of god , multiple character statements and beliefs e.t.c. for Kratos and Thor to be relative either capable of killing the other rather then one being decisively superior to others , both fights have too much context surrounding them as well , and thus I suggest them being taken as relative rather then one being treated as a decisive superior.

@kal_el_batson:

I mean, during the QTE Atreus did land some pretty nice hits on the All Father himself, knocking him down and everything. Like I said, he's not a complete non-factor. Is he the DECIDING factor? No

Atreus landing some hits on him is the same thing as him landing some hits on Baldur , sure thing He may have landed some hits but from an inverse standard Atreus is way below the adults in power , he is below even Thrudd from what things seemed like , him being capable of hurting Odin is just him being inconsistent power wise like he was in first game , almost every other thing he does in base is more akin to the Thrudd and Angrboda then to the Thor/Kratos tier.

While Kratos didn't fight Jormy, he did have to face Asgard's defenses. Dragons, Travelers, etc. Also, he was completely fresh even after defeating Thor.

I mean....those are canon fodder compared to planet spanning serpants and dimension busting fire giants , Thor was fighting Two inverse god tiers like Jormungandarr and Surtur while Kratos on the other hand was fighting things even ascension era Kratos would body.

In reference to these two statements, you're forgetting that one of the downfalls of the Aesir Gods is their extreme arrogance. Kratos mentions this too when he speaks of Magni. "He was strong, but he was arrogant until his last breath". Even Modi, watching his much more powerful brother be killed in front of his face, went after Kratos solo.Odin sent his grandsons to kill Kratos, "like brittle knives against a mountain". He just wants people to do his bidding for himm

I don't think Modi had much of a choice tbf , from his statements he seem to be ridiculed and scared to return to Asgard , which is understandable seeing what Thor did to Modi once Modi returned , Modi was kinda smart and even got Kratos down to the ground by attacking his offguard with lightning rather then going in from front , he just couldn't have anticipated Spartan rage to come out , now Odin on the other hand didn't even know they were dealing with the esteemed and retired God of War during God of War IV.

in V , He knows who Kratos and how truly powerful he is, and yet believes Thor can defeat Kratos, Odin while confident won't overestimate anyone's capabiltiies but himself , so I think using Odin should be fair.

I think Thor on a good day can kill Kratos. But I see it as a 7-3 match up with Kratos fully geared up and weapons. In the final fight he showed mastery of axe, spear, and blades. I would say it is MUCH more even if Kratos is limited to just one weapon

with all weapons , smart usage of weapons such as how Kratos used it via getting two clean stand with Draupnir and Blades of chaos right to the stomach which would weaken Thor as both Draupnir and BoC drain power.

I say if they fight and Kratos fights strategically then its 6-4 in kratos's favour as he has a more versatile kit.

if they fight and Kratos just bullrushes with all his strength and Thor does the same , thing a 5-5 or 6-4 ( in the Odinson's favour )

that seems to be consistent with the narrative and everyone's statements.

@maulsmacker:

I mean, Thor did try to bring the hammer down, and Kratos completely negated him with the axe.

He completely shrugged off and axe hit right after that, and completely matched and overpowered Thor straight up during the "COME ON!" sequence.

I really liked Thor but I think they made it clear who was the big dawg in the game.

@kal_el_batson: I don't think that means much , both Thor and Kratos survived attacks from each other , Thor actually survived multiple stabs from Kratos's weapons right to his stomach multiple times, he was even ready to fight after being stabbed by Leviathan in the stomach.

I don't think we can use just that one instance considering Thor has been running a gauntlet of Jormungandarr, Ragnarok and Kratos and was clearly exhausted by that point , earlier in the fight he was capable of easily blocking hits from Kratos as well as almost killing Kratos had Kratos not summoned the Draupnir.

Like I said , its more Anakin-Obi Wan then it is Dooku-Obi Wan.

And then he lost Kratos, Freya, and Atreus. Shows what he knows.

Reversally, Freya was confident in her ability to take on Odin alone:

"cough"

Just before Odin uses his spell, Kratos buries his axe in Odin's shoulder. There's plenty of blood visible.

Thor and Kratos aren’t equals. They fought, Kratos won. Him deciding to spare Thor wouldn’t have changed that, Thor was beaten and was asking Kratos to finish it, which he could have very easily done .

This also seems like a rogue opinion but I honestly don’t think Odin is better than Kratos either. In the 3 vs 1 he kinda gets his ass kicked. Sure he pins Kratos momentarily but that has happened before, he never really went into second gear like he does when Atreus is threatened.

@the_wspanialy:

And then he lost Kratos, Freya, and Atreus. Shows what he knows.

after fighting Kratos and Atreus before pretty extensively yes

Reversally, Freya was confident in her ability to take on Odin alone:

I mean , that is very easy to say when you've Kratos , Tyr and Freyr in the same room with you as they would be there during the Seige of Asgard :P

Just before Odin uses his spell, Kratos buries his axe in Odin's shoulder. There's plenty of blood visible

Ah , there being no visible blood when Freya arrived seemed to have confused me , regardless this scene is intresting as Odin physically overpowers Kratos fot a solid moment there with his spear vs his axe and isn't all that hurt via the Leviathan Stab into him, it doesn't seem to me that Kratos is even physically superior tbh , maybe a very slight edge but someone relative to Kratos in physicals and the most competent magic user in norse saga should decisively deal with Freya and Atreus.

if we take the second fight at complete face value and ignore all the context surrounding it then we may come to this conclusion, but with countless statements from Kratos/Mimir/Odin e.t.c. and the WoG from Matt Sophos , Kratos shouldn't be decisively superior to Thor overall combatively, they seem to be even by in game statements as well as WoG , the second fight has way too much context to be properly applied into battle anyway.

@maulsmacker: what context? Thor fighting Jormungandr for a few minutes?

Jormungandarr and Surtur at once, decisively defeating Jormungandarr in that timeframe , being poisoned by Eitr earlier in the game , Thor not being in the best state of mind as suggested via his dialogue , and getting stabbed twice by Blades of Chaos and Draupnir which are two weapons that explicitly absorb energy.

Odin already had a long and close fight with the trio, and adding Thor will just seal the deal.

Odin absolutely toyed with Kratos and his son, evident by him gesturing his finger every time he dodges Kratos in the boss fight " like a no non" and the moment Kratos landed a single hit, Odin while unfazed overpowered him physically and then one-shotted him and his son with magic.

Odin only lost when a Kratos tier combatant in Freya was added and who could also answer his magic so he can't one-shot Kratos and Loki again.

Tbh, we can also argue some context like that Odin went completely mad and unstable when his whole life's work got crushed in front of his eyes ( he was so insane that a cunning man like him didn't even try to save his life and just argued and basically forced Loki to killed him he was literally suicidal) and his stamina, as a very elderly God who was not known to be a warrior either, would have likely run way lower than Kratos, Loki, and a fresh Freya after dealing with the former two and having a prolonged fight with the three.

They were fighting since nearly the beginning of Ragnorak, so.... I wouldn't call that a few min.

If Odin can't beat Kratos, Freya, and Atreus, he has no business going up against Kratos, Freya, and Frey. And considering you'r use of the whole "Thor fought Jormungandr and Ragnarok before fighting Kratos" argument, keep in mind that Kratos, Freya, and Atreus had to fight their way through a literal army (and Thor in Kratos' case) before even engaging Odin.

Furthermore, if you believe that Kratos and Atreus were no much for Odin on their own, that makes Freya the clear MVP of the trio.

So Freya's words are just baseless boasting?

Something less situational then:

Going back a bit...

Freya: If we can get inside, I'm going after Odin.

Kratos: I won't stop you.

The dialogue(s) makes it clear that she's going after Odin, alone if need be. Even in the scene you're using, she tells Odin; "Let go of the boy and face me." and "I will kill you. Plan on that." And considering their shared history during the Aesir-Vanir war, where she led the Vanir to a stalemate, despite Odin and Thor (and potentially even Tyr and Heimdal) leading the opposing side, and their marriage, she's by far the most qualified person to make any judgment regarding Odin's capabilities.

If putting Kratos under any kind of pressure once is a sign of physical relativity, you can make the same case for Magni.

Thor can keep Kratos busy long enough for Odin to put down Atreus and Freya. Kratos could go GoW 3 mode and go absolute ham afterwards, but I doubt it'd be enough for Odin as Odin clearly won if it wasnt for Freya coming in and already preping for Odin himself

@the_wspanialy:

If Odin can't beat Kratos, Freya, and Atreus, he has no business going up against Kratos, Freya, and Frey. And considering you'r use of the whole "Thor fought Jormungandr and Ragnarok before fighting Kratos" argument, keep in mind that Kratos, Freya, and Atreus had to fight their way through a literal army (and Thor in Kratos' case) before even engaging Odin.

Now we come into an intresting dilemma , either a fresh Odin fought a fresh Kratos , or a fresh Odin faced an exhausted Kratos , but if Kratos got exhausted that completely throws the "holding back Kratos > Thor" narrative into the dustbin , the asgardian armies are non factors , don't know why you would even mention them considering Kratos and Freya are obviously eons more powerful them the random asgardian soldiers ,

Furthermore, if you believe that Kratos and Atreus were no much for Odin on their own, that makes Freya the clear MVP of the trio.

I mean , combined with the fact that Odin was going insane by that point

Gallery

combining that with them now getting someone who can actually counter Odin's magic was sure a game changer

So Freya's words are just baseless boasting?

Not really boasting , more explaining her plan during ragnarok

The dialogue(s) makes it clear that she's going after Odin, alone if need be. Even in the scene you're using, she tells Odin; "Let go of the boy and face me." and "I will kill you. Plan on that."

During Ragnarok, she tell Kratos that they have Odin exactly where they want him and to rush at him , to which Kratos replies how he won't get away , she clearly during Ragnarok wanted Kratos to come with him to combat Odin rather then going all alone to face him.

And considering their shared history during the Aesir-Vanir war, where she led the Vanir to a stalemate, despite Odin and Thor (and potentially even Tyr and Heimdal) leading the opposing side, and their marriage, she's by far the most qualified person to make any judgment regarding Odin's capabilities.

that was like Thousands of Years ago though , a way younger Thor wasn't even capable of defeating Jormungandarr while Ragnarok Thor turned him into a punching bag , Ragnarok Era Odin has mastered Seidr magic and god knows how many other kinds of magic so his power is also much better then before , Heimdall I doubt is older then even Baldur and Baldur sure as hell wasn't even born at that point , you can't use thousand of years ago versions of the Aesirs to scale the current , same thing goes with the Olympians who also became immensely more powerful with time.

also , she wasn't alone , there were Njord (a master of time manipulation) , Freyr ( weilds a weapon on par with Mjolnir and capable of stopping Surtur for a while ), and her mother all on her side.

and even then its not important she defeated either Thor or Odin considering all she needs to do is make sure to avoid them mainly and make sure the Vanirs all don't fall to Thor and Odin.

If putting Kratos under any kind of pressure once is a sign of physical relativity, you can make the same case for Magni.

Kratos was holding back immensely against Magni and one shotted him the moment he gave a bit into the rage , and regarding Odin , he does it again when Kratos bear hugs him during the QTE section.

@the_wspanialy: sorry some asshole had flagged me out and I had to ask someone else to post my reply but a mod decreased my karma

If Odin can't beat Kratos, Freya, and Atreus, he has no business going up against Kratos, Freya, and Frey. And considering you'r use of the whole "Thor fought Jormungandr and Ragnarok before fighting Kratos" argument, keep in mind that Kratos, Freya, and Atreus had to fight their way through a literal army (and Thor in Kratos' case) before even engaging Odin.

Now we come into an intresting dilemma , either a fresh Odin fought a fresh Kratos , or a fresh Odin faced an exhausted Kratos , but if Kratos got exhausted that completely throws the "holding back Kratos > Thor" narrative into the dustbin , the asgardian armies are non factors , don't know why you would even mention them considering Kratos and Freya are obviously eons more powerful them the random asgardian soldiers ,

Furthermore, if you believe that Kratos and Atreus were no much for Odin on their own, that makes Freya the clear MVP of the trio.

I mean , combined with the fact that Odin was going insane by that point

Gallery

combining that with them now getting someone who can actually counter Odin's magic was sure a game changer

So Freya's words are just baseless boasting?

Not really boasting , more explaining her plan during ragnarok

The dialogue(s) makes it clear that she's going after Odin, alone if need be. Even in the scene you're using, she tells Odin; "Let go of the boy and face me." and "I will kill you. Plan on that."

During Ragnarok, she tell Kratos that they have Odin exactly where they want him and to rush at him , to which Kratos replies how he won't get away , she clearly during Ragnarok wanted Kratos to come with him to combat Odin rather then going all alone to face him.

And considering their shared history during the Aesir-Vanir war, where she led the Vanir to a stalemate, despite Odin and Thor (and potentially even Tyr and Heimdal) leading the opposing side, and their marriage, she's by far the most qualified person to make any judgment regarding Odin's capabilities.

that was like Thousands of Years ago though , a way younger Thor wasn't even capable of defeating Jormungandarr while Ragnarok Thor turned him into a punching bag , Ragnarok Era Odin has mastered Seidr magic and god knows how many other kinds of magic so his power is also much better then before , Heimdall I doubt is older then even Baldur and Baldur sure as hell wasn't even born at that point , you can't use thousand of years ago versions of the Aesirs to scale the current , same thing goes with the Olympians who also became immensely more powerful with time.

also , she wasn't alone , there were Njord (a master of time manipulation) , Freyr ( weilds a weapon on par with Mjolnir and capable of stopping Surtur for a while ), and her mother all on her side.

and even then its not important she defeated either Thor or Odin considering all she needs to do is make sure to avoid them mainly and make sure the Vanirs all don't fall to Thor and Odin.

If putting Kratos under any kind of pressure once is a sign of physical relativity, you can make the same case for Magni.

Kratos was holding back immensely against Magni and one shotted him the moment he gave a bit into the rage , and regarding Odin , he does it again when Kratos bear hugs him during the QTE section.

@maulsmacker:

Jormungandarr and Surtur at once,

This is completely made up. Thor was fighting Jormungandr for a while but Surtur was being held back by Freya and Freyr. Freyr gets knocked away from the fight for like 30 seconds and speaks to Kratos. Even still, it's implied that Freya is still up there off screen because Kratos tells Freyr to "get back to your sister" and hold off ragnarok (at this point this was literally Freya's only job).

decisively defeating Jormungandarr in that timeframe , being poisoned by Eitr earlier in the game , Thor not being in the best state of mind as suggested via his dialogue , and getting stabbed twice by Blades of Chaos and Draupnir which are two weapons that explicitly absorb energy.

There's no narrative suggestion that Thor was tired when he fought Kratos, by the same notion Kratos and Atreus had fought through an army as well. The same logic can be applied to everyone that fought Odin. There's also no suggestion that the Eitr did anything other than stop that one cut from healing.

and getting stabbed twice by Blades of Chaos and Draupnir which are two weapons that explicitly absorb energy.

Is this a joke? How is Kratos using his weapons "context"?

@reaperace

Odin already had a long and close fight with the trio, and adding Thor will just seal the deal.

Long and close? He was using every trick in the book and lost decisively. It's not the same as say Kratos's first fight with Thor where he was clearly physically exhausted afterwards. Odin lands like two good hits the entire time and they're both on Kratos. The first one does nothing and he gets thrown aside like a ragdoll, the second stuns Kratos for like a second, maybe?

Odin absolutely toyed with Kratos and his son, evident by him gesturing his finger every time he dodges Kratos in the boss fight " like a no non"

Again, did we play the same game?

"This isn't where it ends!"

"Enough!"

"No more"

"NO!"

"You come to my lands, turn my family against me!"

- Odin

Which one of these statements makes it seem like Odin was "absolutely toying" with Kratos and Atreus? That sounds asinine to me.

and the moment Kratos landed a single hit, Odin while unfazed overpowered him physically and then one-shotted him and his son with magic.

Well he'd obviously landed hits prior or Odin wouldn't be shouting stuff like "NO!", but regardless...

This ^^. Kratos does the same thing later on when Odin stabs him, only to overpower his grip and throw him like a ragdoll. The oneshot thing doesn't happen. He pins Kratos and Atreus to the ground with a spell, but we've seen Kratos in similar situations and absolutely muscle his way through when he starts losing his shit. He was never brought to that point because Freya "oneshotted" Odin right after. He didn't need to use his spartan rage at all in the fight.

Odin only lost when a Kratos tier combatant in Freya was added and who could also answer his magic so he can't one-shot Kratos and Loki again.

She stops him from using a spell once and it was the ground slam one. It's not like she was countering all of his spells.

Tbh, we can also argue some context like that Odin went completely mad and unstable when his whole life's work got crushed in front of his eyes ( he was so insane that a cunning man like him didn't even try to save his life and just argued and basically forced Loki to killed him he was literally suicidal) and his stamina,

This is all complete headcanon at best.

as a very elderly God who was not known to be a warrior either, would have likely run way lower than Kratos, Loki, and a fresh Freya after dealing with the former two and having a prolonged fight with the three.

Again, we have no indication of this whatsoever. By the same notion Atreus had fought through Asgards army, Kratos the same and was straight off the back of defeating Thor. "Fresh Freya" had spent the entire time holding back Surtr. Also, first Odin was toying with Kratos and Atreus, now his stamina was impacted by them. Which one is it?

Freya had done the same with Surtr; Kratos and Atreus with Asgards army; and Kratos had literally just beaten Thor. Do you not see the double standards here? Why is it important context for beating Thor, but not for fighting Odin?

@thedailybagel:

This is completely made up. Thor was fighting Jormungandr for a while but Surtur was being held back by Freya and Freyr. Freyr gets knocked away from the fight for like 30 seconds and speaks to Kratos. Even still, it's implied that Freya is still up there off screen because Kratos tells Freyr to "get back to your sister" and hold off ragnarok (at this point this was literally Freya's only job).

Not really , Freya and Freyr are both told to talk to Surtur , only Freyr is ever told to hold it off , seeing how casually Freya apparently left Freyr to Surtur , seeing how immensely powerful Surtur was she would not in character do that , Freyr and Freya tried talking to Surtur at first and also its not made up when we literally see with our own two eyes that Surtur is fighting Thor and even attacking him and not anyone else.

Gallery

so regardless , at this point Freyr wasn't attacking Surtur , and Surtur sure as hell is attacking Thor.

There's no narrative suggestion that Thor was tired when he fought Kratos, by the same notion Kratos and Atreus had fought through an army as well. The same logic can be applied to everyone that fought Odin.

Poor argument , you can't compare some ground soldiers to Yggdrasil busting giants and a giant who survived blows that started breaking Yggdrasil apart , its almost like comparing creation ending threats to random fodders.

There's also no suggestion that the Eitr did anything other than stop that one cut from healing

Poison is bad for you, I'm sure thats shocking to you but its literally a primordeal poison in his system , how the hell is it not gonna have negative effects.

Is this a joke? How is Kratos using his weapons "context"?

Uhm , maybe because of this weapons drain power......?

Long and close? He was using every trick in the book and lost decisively. It's not the same as say Kratos's first fight with Thor where he was clearly physically exhausted afterwards.

There is nothing decisive there , like at all man , absolutely nothing is decisive considering Odin was about to gouge Kratos's eyes out even when he was bear hugged by Kratos , he still almost killed him, that is not a decisive defeat.

Odin lands like two good hits the entire time and they're both on Kratos. The first one does nothing and he gets thrown aside like a ragdoll, the second stuns Kratos for like a second, maybe?

he physically overpowered him for a moment with his Spears too and then again near the final QTE.

Again, did we play the same game?

"This isn't where it ends!"

"Enough!"

"No more"

"NO!"

"You come to my lands, turn my family against me!"

- Odin

I mean , maybe mention the scene where he literally power nulls and binds them , goes in near their ear and says "Is this what you wanted? was your plan really that much better then mine?" and then casually turn his back on Kratos? that seems like a bloodlusted dude to you.

This ^^. Kratos does the same thing later on when Odin stabs him, only to overpower his grip and throw him like a ragdoll. The oneshot thing doesn't happen. He pins Kratos and Atreus to the ground with a spell, but we've seen Kratos in similar situations and absolutely muscle his way through when he starts losing his shit. He was never brought to that point because Freya "oneshotted" Odin right after. He didn't need to use his spartan rage at all in the fight

Spsrtan rage is complete weaksauce compared to late game GOW Ragnarok Kratos , even if you use spartan rage against Thor in the first fight he would still keep insulting you and say "you were just getting started" , the punch Kratos gave Thor was much more powerful then spartan rage and as shown , had Kratos gone in Asgard like an animal , he would've had died to Thor , much less Odin , rage controlled full power endgame Ragnarok Kratos is much better then him becoming animalistic via spartan rage

and there is no evidence Kratos would've gotten out of that spell whatsover.

Magni faught an insanely suppressed Kratos and got slaughtered the moment Kratos gave into some of his rage , same thing with Baldur.

This is all complete headcanon at best.

nah his dialogue makes it pretty clear he is losing it

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combining that with the fact that he literally didn't use his ravens to just teleport away , I say thats pretty consistent

@maulsmacker:

Not really , Freya and Freyr are both told to talk to Surtur , only Freyr is ever told to hold it off , seeing how casually Freya apparently left Freyr to Surtur , seeing how immensely powerful Surtur was she would not in character do that , Freyr and Freya tried talking to Surtur at first and also its not made up when we literally see with our own two eyes that Surtur is fighting Thor and even attacking him and not anyone else.

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so regardless , at this point Freyr wasn't attacking Surtur , and Surtur sure as hell is attacking Thor.

We see Surtr trying to attack Freya and Freyr straight away:

Look, man. I can show you these things but I can't understand it for you, I assume you have the game, go see for yourself... You can look up in game and watch Surtr trying to attack them both for as long as you want. They obviously aren't just talking. Furthermore, the screens you posted are right after Freyr gets knocked away:

There is literally 8 seconds between this and your screenshots, Freyr was knocked back by Surtr here. He was holding him off the whole time, which really isn't hard because he's slow as balls and couldn't hit Freya in her bird form. Furthermore, although you can't see her, Freya is still up there as well:

So yeah, saying that Thor was holding them both off at the same time isn't true.

Poor argument , you can't compare some ground soldiers to Yggdrasil busting giants and a giant who survived blows that started breaking Yggdrasil apart , its almost like comparing creation ending threats to random fodders.

Fair enough, regardless of how much I disagree with all the Yggdrasil stuff. You ignored the Odin part though, conveniently.

Poison is bad for you, I'm sure thats shocking to you but its literally a primordeal poison in his system , how the hell is it not gonna have negative effects.

1. Does Thor ever mention that he's feeling off?
2. Does anyone ever mention that the poison would weaken him or that he seems off?
3. Does the poison play a part in the narrative of the game at all?
4. How long does the poison last? Did it stay in his system the whole time? He was stabbed at the start of the game and didn't face Kratos again till the end, that's a long time. Did it flush out of his system?
5. To what extent did the poison effect him?

If your answer is "No" or "I don't know" to all of these questions, then the point is a non factor, regardless of how much you want it to be.

Uhm , maybe because of this weapons drain power......?

So is Kratos not supposed to use 2/3rds of his weaponry? That's not special context, that's just what happens when you fight Kratos. He's always going to have those weapons in a fight with Thor if he's ready for it. He's always going to land hits with them. If Thor can't deal with it that's not "context", that's just a fully geared Kratos being too much for him.

There is nothing decisive there , like at all man , absolutely nothing is decisive considering Odin was about to gouge Kratos's eyes out even when he was bear hugged by Kratos , he still almost killed him, that is not a decisive defeat.

He's using magic, not physically overpowering him. This whole interaction lasted genuinely less than two seconds, Kratos didn't even have a chance to resist because Atreus punched Odin straight away. He didn't almost kill him.

As for the decisive part, I played the game, I think it was a decisive defeat. Nothing you say will change that opinion. We're not talking about some niche comic character here, I have access to all the information you that you do.

I mean , maybe mention the scene where he literally power nulls and binds them , goes in near their ear and says "Is this what you wanted? was your plan really that much better then mine?" and then casually turn his back on Kratos? that seems like a bloodlusted dude to you.

I mean, maybe read my post and see where I do mention that exact scene and understand the context of what I was saying? As for your question, that's a strawman. I never said Odin was bloodlusted. You'd know that if you actually understood what I was saying.

Spsrtan rage is complete weaksauce compared to late game GOW Ragnarok Kratos , even if you use spartan rage against Thor in the first fight he would still keep insulting you and say "you were just getting started" , the punch Kratos gave Thor was much more powerful then spartan rage and as shown , had Kratos gone in Asgard like an animal , he would've had died to Thor , much less Odin , rage controlled full power endgame Ragnarok Kratos is much better then him becoming animalistic via spartan rage

Sure

and there is no evidence Kratos would've gotten out of that spell whatsover.

He was bound for 10 seconds before Freya jumped in. We've seen Kratos break out of bindings and overpower people seemingly stronger than him when he really has to. This is all tracks back to the point I had that Odin never pushed Kratos to the brink like other people have. The trio was far too much for him to handle, he never looks like he's going to beat them.

@thedailybagel:

We see Surtr trying to attack Freya and Freyr straight away:

This scene is from way before the scene where Surtur is even close to Thor and Jormungandarr so I don't see why this would play relevance and you missed my point, as I said "so regardless , at this point Freyr wasn't attacking Surtur , and Surtur sure as hell is attacking Thor" , Freyr wasn't attacking Surtur when Surtur was fighting Thor at all so I don't see the reason why we would assume Surtur is nattling Freya and Freyr when therenis no resistance from them.

Look, man. I can show you these things but I can't understand it for you, I assume you have the game, go see for yourself... You can look up in game and watch Surtr trying to attack them both for as long as you want. They obviously aren't just talking. Furthermore, the screens you posted are right after Freyr gets knocked away:

No these aren't , patronizing apart , this is from the scene where you are walking upto the Freyr cutscene where Freyr comes flying from the battleplace of Thor , Jormungandarr and Surtur , Surtur attacks Thor multiple times in GoW Ragnarok , before and after Freyr was sent flying to Kratos and Atreus , and that is just an undisprovable fact.

There is literally 8 seconds between this and your screenshots, Freyr was knocked back by Surtr here. He was holding him off the whole time, which really isn't hard because he's slow as balls and couldn't hit Freya in her bird form. Furthermore, although you can't see her, Freya is still up there as well:

not true , Freya and Freyr were explicitly asked to this point to talk to Surtur , see if he listens to reason , this is explicitly from Kratos.

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and as Freyr said , they didn't wanna listen to reason.

At this point Freyr was trying to talk and see if he would listen to reason , he just sseemingly swatted away Freyr and kept attacking Thor as seen a few seconds later

So yeah, saying that Thor was holding them both off at the same time isn't true.

I mean he literally was , doubt Freya and Freyr talking to Surtur is stopping Surtur from attacking Thor tbh.

Fair enough, regardless of how much I disagree with all the Yggdrasil stuff.

Disagreeing with reality is not healthy

You ignored the Odin part though, conveniently

The counter pretty much is that Thor is fighting two god tier from inverse standard and Kratos was fighting fodders , they are so far below he can just one shot , not fair for us to assume he got weaker because by this logic Kratos literally never had a fresh fight because he always fights tons of fodders.

Does Thor ever mention that he's feeling off?

Offscreen likely , onscreen No because he literally doesn't even mention it after being stabbed.

Does anyone ever mention that the poison would weaken him or that he seems off?

people mention that its not healing at all and the wound is staying hugely a lot.

Does the poison play a part in the narrative of the game at all?

Yes , characters mention it.

How long does the poison last? Did it stay in his system the whole time? He was stabbed at the start of the game and didn't face Kratos again till the end, that's a long time. Did it flush out of his system?

till the end of the game considering that the wound never seems to dry up , like at all.

To what extent did the poison effect him?

Unknown

If your answer is "No" or "I don't know" to all of these questions, then the point is a non factor, regardless of how much you want it to be.

why is it? just because I don't know how much weaker someone got from being posioned doesn't mean that poisons wouldn't have negative effects on their body at all , all I have to prove is that Thor is even 1% below normal and the battle would be a complete non factor because power levels become variable , and the poison is a fair point as we don't know how much it could've effected him.

So is Kratos not supposed to use 2/3rds of his weaponry? That's not special context, that's just what happens when you fight Kratos. He's always going to have those weapons in a fight with Thor if he's ready for it. He's always going to land hits with them. If Thor can't deal with it that's not "context", that's just a fully geared Kratos being too much for him.

again we're talking raw power , Not just Thor being caught offguard with random weapons like draupnir being summoned out of Thin air , for example in God of War II Kratos and Zeus have the battle where Once Zeus says that he is done playing with Kratos , Kratos is so hilariously outmatched he straight up concedes and starts plotting , once zeus comes close he catches Zeus offguard with BoA strikes and after that Zeus is weaker then even Athena and Kratos easily stomps Zeus.

is Kratos a stomp gap above GoWII Zeus? No.

He's using magic, not physically overpowering him.

Yea but the Magic seems to be empowering himself physically rather then burning his face or something.

This whole interaction lasted genuinely less than two seconds, Kratos didn't even have a chance to resist bevcause Atreus punched Odin straight away. He didn't almost kill him.

he did easily overpower and start pushing him back however which won't happen if he , with this spell , wasn't still a threat and you can't get decisively beaten while being a threat.

As for the decisive part, I played the game, I think it was a decisive defeat. Nothing you say will change that opinion. We're not talking about some niche comic character here, I have access to all the information you that you do

We both played the same game and come to different conclusions, what then?

I mean, maybe read my post and see where I do mention that exact scene and understand the context of what I was saying? As for your question, that's a strawman. I never said Odin was bloodlusted. You'd know that if you actually understood what I was saying.

the point I made was that Odin clearly wasn't bloodlusted and was never in any real threat from Kratos and Atreus who both were indeed bloodlusted and he still casually power nulled them and started shittalking them , if that isn't making easy work of someone then I don't know what is

He was bound for 10 seconds before Freya jumped in. We've seen Kratos break out of bindings and overpower people seemingly stronger than him when he really has to.

the spell was more power nullification then common binding and it doesn't seem strength could counter that spell at all.

This is all tracks back to the point I had that Odin never pushed Kratos to the brink like other people have. The trio was far too much for him to handle, he never looks like he's going to beat them.

The trio did beat him with 100% of their efforts against an insane suicidal Odin and then still didn't completely destroy him at all , and Kratos was dead in the water when bound by Odin's spell , he could quite literally just disintegrate him like he did Thor there.

@maulsmacker:

Freyr wasn't attacking Surtur when Surtur was fighting Thor at all so I don't see the reason why we would assume Surtur is nattling Freya and Freyr when therenis no resistance from them.

YOU LITERALLY SEE HIM DO IT. STRAIGHT AWAY. CONSTANTLY. FOR NO REASON.

The counter pretty much is that Thor is fighting two god tier from inverse standard and Kratos was fighting fodders , they are so far below he can just one shot , not fair for us to assume he got weaker because by this logic Kratos literally never had a fresh fight because he always fights tons of fodders.

Freya was fighting Surtr, Kratos fought Thor, both before Odin. That's what I was talking about.

not true , Freya and Freyr were explicitly asked to this point to talk to Surtur , see if he listens to reason , this is explicitly from Kratos.

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and as Freyr said , they didn't wanna listen to reason.

At this point Freyr was trying to talk and see if he would listen to reason , he just sseemingly swatted away Freyr and kept attacking Thor as seen a few seconds later

This conversation is pointless. You can just boot up the game, look up, and see Surtr engaging Freyr and Freya. You can see Thor and Jormungandr moving in and out of view whilst they fight each other. Kratos says Freya is still up there. You posted a screenshot where Freyr literally says "Freya and I will do what we can to slow ragnarok" and still can't fathom the idea that they were actually doing that. We see Freyr get knocked out of the fight, which he was involved in the entire time. Like...

the spell was more power nullification then common binding and it doesn't seem strength could counter that spell at all.

Where on Earth have you got that from? You just made that up lol.

ea but the Magic seems to be empowering himself physically rather then burning his face or something.

Kratos' freaking eyes are glowing blue, he's not squeezing his head he's just touching his face.

The trio did beat him with 100% of their efforts against an insane suicidal Odin and then still didn't completely destroy him at all , and Kratos was dead in the water when bound by Odin's spell , he could quite literally just disintegrate him like he did Thor there.

Do you seriously think Odin disintegrated Thor using magic because that tops this post off.

Offscreen likely , onscreen No because he literally doesn't even mention it after being stabbed.

Nah, this tops it off.

"Yeah my evidence happens off screen off panel off script in my head".

@thedailybagel:

YOU LITERALLY SEE HIM DO IT. STRAIGHT AWAY. CONSTANTLY. FOR NO REASON.

No he doesn't , Surtur is attacking them , Freyr never attacks Surtur or blocks him from attacking Thor , this isn't hard at all.

This conversation is pointless. You can just boot up the game, look up, and see Surtr engaging Freyr and Freya. You can see Thor and Jormungandr moving in and out of view whilst they fight each other.

I already posted multiple images of Surtur being there and attacking Thor , visually , you've clinged onto " Freyr and Freya are attacking Surtur " when they are explicitly told to reason with him rather then attack , after they fail to reason does Kratos tell them to merely hold him off.

Kratos says Freya is still up there. You posted a screenshot where Freyr literally says "Freya and I will do what we can to slow ragnarok" and still can't fathom the idea that they were actually doing that.

They're not doing that by literally attacking or stopping that thing , as Kratos tells them to go see that if he listens to reason , to which as Freyr says , they didn't wanna listen , whats so hard to fathom about them not trying to stop or kill it but rather do as Kratos said.....talk?

We see Freyr get knocked out of the fight, which he was involved in the entire time. Like...

There is no fight between the Vanirs and Surtur, Surtur is literally attacking Thor , I quite literally posted direct shots of him attacking Thor , Freya and Freyr are just trying to merely reason with him.

Where on Earth have you got that from? You just made that up lol.

....Their hands being seemingly by a purple energy rather then physically?

like , Nah I don't make shit up like Thor not fighting Surtur and Jormungandarr.

Kratos' freaking eyes are glowing blue, he's not squeezing his head he's just touching his face

ah so he is literally not applying any force here?

Do you seriously think Odin disintegrated Thor using magic because that tops this post off.

Nah but if he can do it to Thor then so can to Kratos , Kratos isn't just gonna no sell Grungnir going through his body, or his head for that matter.

Nah, this tops it off.

"Yeah my evidence happens off screen off panel off script in my head".

Thor was literally stabbed in the gut , obviously he is gonna feel off after that , anyone would , there is nothing ridiculous about that and if the wound literally never changed , would the pain of having a massive slice in your stomach dissapear? common sense isn't so common nowadays I see.

@maulsmacker:

....Their hands being seemingly by a purple energy rather then physically?

I don't think you understand how funny that response is.

"How do you know it's power nullification? Seems like you made that up"

"Because it's purple!"

Kratos isn't just gonna no sell Grungnir going through his body

You realize this exact thing happens.

@thedailybagel:

I don't think you understand how funny that response is.

"How do you know it's power nullification? Seems like you made that up"

"Because it's purple!"

ah man back to the patronizing are we?

Yawns , I wish you were able to comprehend a point beyond being comedic.

Point is its not a mere phsyical barrier trapping him , he is trapped by an energy making him completely unable to do remotely anything in response , you've to give me reasons to believe something that doesn't look like a solid physical restraint is a solid physical restraint , otherwise your point is completely baseless.

You realize this exact thing happens.

Oh Please , remind me of the exact scene where Kratos is pinned to the ground and Odin with all his strength stabs Kratos in the back of his skill with a full power Spear strike and Kratos's skin being so hard it stops the spear from going in.

??? The witch hunt continues I see...

I fail to see how Kratos being potentially exhausted contradicts his holding back against Thor. And there's no "narrative". It's a fact. As @thedailybagel pointed out, Freya was involved in holding back Ragnarok, we can see her dodging their hand sweeps. Seeing as you consider Thor dodging some of Ragnarok's hand sweeps as "fighting" him, I expect you to give Freya the same courtesy.

I mean , combined with the fact that Odin was going insane by that point

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combining that with them now getting someone who can actually counter Odin's magic was sure a game changer

Getting angry ≠ going insane. Now you're just making things up. And I fail to see why it would negatively impact him anyway.

I mean, if according to you Odin is able to toy with Kratos and Atreus, yet Freya is able to turn the tide and grant them a decisive victory, that would make Freya significantly superior to Kratos. Somehow I doubt you believe that is the case... although you did also admit she can counter Odin's magic, and I do remember you thinking that raw power is related to the effectiveness of hax, so...

Which in no way contradicts her readiness to go after Odin alone, as I've proven. She still fully intended to invade Asgard despite Kratos and Atreus leaving after Brok's death.

She has a backup so why wouldn't she use it? It's a sensible thing to do.

So? If you believe that the Aesir improved over time, why wouldn't the same apply to the Vanir? You also have no way of knowing Heimdall's age. And when have I even mentioned Baldur?

If you decide to count the featless ones, throw in Sif, Iduun, and Ullr to the Aesir. Magni and Modi potentially too.

I doubt Freya would earn her title of Odin's "most deadly enemy" by avoiding him. She hasn't become the Valkyrie Queen due to her looks. Speaking of the Valkyries, there's still the Sigrun quote...

The point still stands.

No, he doesn't. He uses magic to cause Kratos pain, not his strength to physically overpower him. @thedailybagel already has this discussion with you, I'm not doing this again.

@the_wspanialy:

??? The witch hunt continues I see...

Yea man , don't think it will stop anytime soon tbh

I fail to see how Kratos being potentially exhausted contradicts his holding back against Thor. And there's no "narrative". It's a fact. As @thedailybagel pointed out, Freya was involved in holding back Ragnarok, we can see her dodging their hand sweeps. Seeing as you consider Thor dodging some of Ragnarok's hand sweeps as "fighting" him, I expect you to give Freya the same courtesy.

Yea but as I pointed out , Thor is trying to downright kill Surtur while Freya is trying to reason with him , they're both dodging few strikes but one is actually fighting Surtur while other is trying to reason with him, Only Freyr ever actually holds off Ragnarok, if Freya and Freyr together were combatting Surtur then there is negative 5% chance Freya would actually leave Freyr alone to fight such a powerful character.

Getting angry ≠ going insane. Now you're just making things up. And I fail to see why it would negatively impact him anyway.

tbf I think you should think about why Odin wouldn't teleport away in a flock of Ravens in the end , its completely in character for him to do and makes sense with his dialogue of questioning his life work.

I mean, if according to you Odin is able to toy with Kratos and Atreus, yet Freya is able to turn the tide and grant them a decisive victory, that would make Freya significantly superior to Kratos. Somehow I doubt you believe that is the case... although you did also admit she can counter Odin's magic, and I do remember you thinking that raw power is related to the effectiveness of hax, so...

Lemme put it like this , a 100 is gonna beat a 50 and 20 10/10 times but once you add in a 40 or 45 that 100 will loose , Odin is the 100 , Freya 40-45 , Kratos 50 and Atreus 20 , mathematically Freya doesn't need to be immensely superior to even the playing field , and Her style also matters as a mage + brute + archer is a better combo then just brute + archer.

yea I think Freya could resist a lot of Odin's magic and cast spells not far behind his but Odin is way ahead physically , while the opposite for Kratos where he can match him in strength but way behind in magic.

Which in no way contradicts her readiness to go after Odin alone, as I've proven. She still fully intended to invade Asgard despite Kratos and Atreus leaving after Brok's death.

She has a backup so why wouldn't she use it? It's a sensible thing to do.

We've no idea how it would've had ended up with Tyr , Surtur , Freyr e.t.c. in asgard against Odin and Thor , "Tyr" lol but from what we see , she would likely have backup against Odin,and Freya is ready to 1v1 Kratos too at the start of the game anyway even though at that point he is way stronger then her so I'm not sure about her rationality when fighting people she despises ( Kratos and Odin).

So? If you believe that the Aesir improved over time, why wouldn't the same apply to the Vanir? You also have no way of knowing Heimdall's age. And when have I even mentioned Baldur?

If you decide to count the featless ones, throw in Sif, Iduun, and Ullr to the Aesir. Magni and Modi potentially too.

Hiemdall is implied to be quite young by The Art of God of War Ragnarok book.

my point was it wasn't just Freya alone , it was a battle of many gods with each other not just Freya , also I'm not sure about Magni and Modi , they may have killed Freya's mother but that could be a degenerate act done way later, if Magni and Modi fought in the vanir war when Freya was a warrior then that would make them older then Baldur , but that is unlikely as Baldur refers to them as boys which a younger person doing to a much older one is.....strange.

Vanir =/= Aesir though , Njord and Freyr don't seem as battle thirsty as Thor or as knowledge hording as Odin , and secondly even if Freyr grew....Freya wouldn't considering that she got married and then completely power nulled later on and was forced to live in asgard and didn't combat nearly as much as Thor and wasn't always trying to get more knowledge on magical powers like Odin , who did learn Seidr magic from Freya though which would make him stronger.

so I don't think there is any case to be made for Freya growing after Vanir war, she doesn't have direct growth showing like the Jormungandarr battle and she didn't learn entire new type of magics like Odin

doubt Freya would earn her title of Odin's "most deadly enemy" by avoiding him. She hasn't become the Valkyrie Queen due to her looks. Speaking of the Valkyries, there's still the Sigrun quote.

Freya just needs to be problematic for the forces of asgard to become the dealiest enemy of asgard and Odin, tho you can use this to scale her above Base Surtur , Freyr and Njord I guess , and Sigrun?????? nah uh , thats just a hype quote for Sigrun, she cannot even defeat GoW4 Suppressed Kratos , A suppressed Thor brutalized a suppressed Kratos in GoW5 opening bossfight , Sigrun quote is genuinely on par with random Valkyrie > Thor and Odin quotes that Mimir made in GoW IV

No, he doesn't. He uses magic to cause Kratos pain, not his strength to physically overpower him. @thedailybagel already has this discussion with you, I'm not doing this again.

I mean , it looks like he is trying to crush his head

I have yet to see Thor throwing any actual punch in Ragnarok's direction. From what I've seen, Jormungandr was Thor's main focus the entire time. And even if that's the case, there's also the matter of Freya and Frey actively distracting Ragnarok ("Get back to your sister"), so it's not like Ragnarok was giving Thor its full attention.

How the Hel did you come to that conclusion? This is just mind-boggling.

Kratos: Get back to your sister. You must hold back Ragnarok.

You claim that Freyr was soloing Ragnarok (the same Freyr who Ragnarok just smacked away like a fly) and Freya was... watching on the side? Or talking to Ragnarok while Freyr was fighting? No, this is ridiculous. They were both holding Ragnarok off. The Kratos' line makes it clear.

Freya and Frey were able to hold Ragnarok off long enough for Kratos and Thor to have their own fight, and for the first phase of Kratos & Atreus' fight with Odin to pass. They've done a very good job. Kratos and Atreus' were in need of help, so she came to their aid. She apparently trusted Freyr to do their job long enough for her, Kratos, and Atreus to finish Odin off.

There's really no need to overcomplicate this.

Not going to address the rest, since it's clearly going in circles.

@the_wspanialy:

I have yet to see Thor throwing any actual punch in Ragnarok's direction. From what I've seen, Jormungandr was Thor's main focus the entire time. And even if that's the case, there's also the matter of Freya and Frey actively distracting Ragnarok ("Get back to your sister"), so it's not like Ragnarok was giving Thor its full attention

I mean from the screenshots I posted Surtur is looking in the general direction of thor which can be deduced via the thunder and attacking him only, Freyr and Freya are trying to talk to him rather then attack him so why would Surtur focus on those who aren't attacking him and not focus on the person attacking him directly?

How the Hel did you come to that conclusion? This is just mind-boggling.

You claim that Freyr was soloing Ragnarok (the same Freyr who Ragnarok just smacked away like a fly) and Freya was... watching on the side? Or talking to Ragnarok while Freyr was fighting? No, this is ridiculous. They were both holding Ragnarok off. The Kratos' line makes it clear.

Freya and Frey were able to hold Ragnarok off long enough for Kratos and Thor to have their own fight, and for the first phase of Kratos & Atreus' fight with Odin to pass. They've done a very good job. Kratos and Atreus' were in need of help, so she came to their aid. She apparently trusted Freyr to do their job long enough for her, Kratos, and Atreus to finish Odin off.

There's really no need to overcomplicate this

Neither Freya or Freyr can do much to Surtur , if Freya can she wouldn't considering that Surtur is their ally in this battle on a technical level.

whats weird about the idea that both Freya and Freyr fought Surtur is that.......did Freya just leave her Brother to fight Surtur? that would make absolutely no sense considering as you said Surtur is so overwhelmingly more powerful then Freyr that his mere slaps can send him flying away? however you view it btw , Freyr held off Surtur from the moment where the second phase of Odin fight started to the moment where Sindri teleported away.

Freyr doesn't need to solo Surtur , just hold him off , even if you believe Surtur is way stronger then Freyr all he needs to do is use Ingrid to hold him off like he held off few strikes during the final scene.

Freya just leaving Freyr to Surtur when she didn't do it the moment Odin arrived or the moment Thor attacked Kratos is a huge reach.

@maulsmacker: Magni and Modi were adults during the Aesir-Vanir war which makes them older than Baldur, as strange as it is.

thats just so akward and weird lmao , I would try to get WoG explaination for Baldur calling them boys and them calling him uncle.

@maulsmacker: Odin's army is not complete fodder. They were able to capture Freyr and defeat his team. And Freya said they need an army of their own to counter them.

depends on the unit, Odin owns some even valkyries and then he amps them, he can amp people and such, sadly no member of the army in the seige of asgard was amped or anything more then the average fodder that can be one shotted.

@maulsmacker: I think that's just headcanon. There is no proof that they weren't the same amped soldiers. They were no different from the troops you fight before in the game, in terms of gameplay. and their whole point is that the same soldiers can die and return from Valhalla, again there is no proof that they lost heir amp and an outpost of them were able to capture Freyr. If they were fodder, why would Freya say they need an army of their own? Besides, there is no proof or implication that fighting Jormungandr tired Thor.

@malistark: that isn't because capturing Freyr is well beyond their usual output, usually the likes of atreus and angrboda would make very short work of that, and as we've seen Odin can amp people with his mgic so at that point there is just a logical conclusion. now upon why Freya would feel like they need a vanir equivalent to the asgardian army, Imagine a war between two godly realms and the gods of both realms are evenly matched and one side holds an advantage, and the one that holds an advantage has an endless supply of people that can be used to ravage the fodders of the other realm, ofcourse an equivalent is needed to fight them off.