Obito Uchiha vs Five Kages

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#51 Posted by tujohey35 (9 posts) - - Show Bio

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Avatar image for mygod000
#52 Edited by MyGod000 (716 posts) - - Show Bio

@hypnos0929 said:
@mygod000 said:
@hypnos0929 said:

@mygod000: Not true. Madara stated that he made certain abilities (like the meteor drop) with the regeneration and infinite chakra in mind. He was essentially himself on steroids and we all need to recognize it. As for his Hashirama fight it was basically fan fiction by that point in the series. Hashirama went from below the third Hokage to the best Hokage to "I'm able to beat villages by myself" in the series because fans wanted it.

Also I'm pretty sure Hashirama didn't want to kill Madara. They fought but he didn't want to kill him.

Finally I think Obito can beat them but low difficulty is a stretch.

wrong, he was weaker than he was in the past as EMS he just had more hax at his disposal thank to Rinnegan.

infinite chakra line was never talked about against, after that duel even Hashirama stated he didn't have enough chakra to make more than 6-9 wood clones.

Yes obito wins low diff here.

How am I wrong? How did Madara get weaker when he clearly states that he's got an infinite amount of chakra and would never have dropped a meteor without the regenerative ability provided the reanimation jutsu?

Madara's exact words from season 6 episode 340, starting at 15:51 are as follows: "Reanimation is a jutsu that summons the dead. However, there is one risk... As long as one knows the signs, the reanimated dead can rescind the Reanimation Contract from their end. When that happens, you end up with the biggest problem of all. An immortal body with infinite chakra... that can move without control. Tell the jutsu caster... Never use a Forbidden Jutsu carelessly. Reanimation, release!"

In regards to the meteor drop Madara says in season 6 episode 322, starting at 13:39: [When asked "You're taking us out too?"] "Of course. That was the original point of the Reanimation Jutsu... To take others out with you. We'll be restored shortly."

It's clear from these statements Madara gained access to abilities and techniques he wouldn't have been able to preform before. These are his words.

Also did Hashirama even release himself from the reanimation jutsu like Madara did? If he didn't do a proper release then he'd still be bond by the jutsu and limited.

Also Obito is not Madara. Madara was a war vet with power surpassing most in his generation, and he even gained a portion of Hashirama's power. Obito is an inexperienced, one trick pony who threw a tantrum because a girl died. He's got less experience in battle than Madara and less jutsu abilities. Unlike Madara he has no Susanno.

Everyone talks about how his intangible powers work but forget he has to become solid to hit people, he can't just pick and chose what parts to solidify (as evident when he fought Danzo's bodyguards). They don't need to keep him intangible for 5 minutes, they just need openings when he tries to attack.

So like I said before Obito doesn't win with low difficulty, especially if there's no plot armor to save him.

you missed the point of my post. Other Edo stated they didn't have unlimited Chakra, so Madara stating he has unlimited chakra is baseless now and can't be used because later in the serious it was debunked that Edo doesn't have unlimited Chakra.

Hashirama Stated Madara was getting back his old powers when he became alive again which proves that EDO MAdara<<EMS Madara.

Hashirama doesn't know any other Madara after EMS which is the strongest one he has ever faced.

Lastly, You are assuming Alive Madara=Edo Madara in durability, which is a no-no.

Avatar image for tony_shark
#53 Posted by Tony_Shark (2132 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperormode: Seriously.

Kamui hax, Rinnengan, precog, black rods, uchiha barries that no-sell Hachibis punches, knowledge of most abilities, shinobi, and their techniques. Reflexes that match Minato, and enough chakra to casually fight BM while controlling 5 bijuus like nothing .

Obito is so slept on.

Avatar image for emperormode
#54 Edited by EmperorMode (704 posts) - - Show Bio

What's with the wall of links?

Avatar image for ultimatesage
#55 Posted by UltimateSage (4039 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000: when was edo Tensei having unlimited chakra debunked??0.o

Avatar image for mygod000
#56 Posted by MyGod000 (716 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000: when was edo Tensei having unlimited chakra debunked??0.o

during Hashirama and Tobirama fight with Juubi Obito.

i'll post the the scan of it

Avatar image for mygod000
#57 Posted by MyGod000 (716 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000: when was edo Tensei having unlimited chakra debunked??0.o

https://mangapark.net/manga/naruto/i1354685/4

If being Edo gives you unlimited chakra then they should be able to make an unlimited amount of Shadow Clones

Clearly, that isn't the case like I said that unlimited chakra line was only used once then it was thrown away shortly after.

Avatar image for ultimatesage
#58 Posted by UltimateSage (4039 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000 said:

https://mangapark.net/manga/naruto/i1354685/4

If being Edo gives you unlimited chakra then they should be able to make an unlimited amount of Shadow Clones

Clearly, that isn't the case like I said that unlimited chakra line was only used once then it was thrown away shortly after.

There's 2 ways that I think that could be explained.......:

1:

They were being drained of chakra. In the link you provided, Hashirama makes an effort to say "in this barrier", so can he make more while out of the barrier? Of fu*king course, Edo Hashirama>Edo Madara.....he always had more chakra than madara who when playing with kages can make 25(?) wood clones for each kage......and you're telling me he can only make 3(4) clones?

No Caption Provided

And I find it hard to believe that Tobirama, a kage lv dude and the creator of shadow clone can only make TWO clones while Kakashi a jonin can make more....:/

2:

Different users different results.......

That's all my reseaning.lol

I mean, I really don't think that link you provided disproves anything. Edo Itachi was able to spam amaterasu with like crazy and use sussano(it drains chakra), and he was still full of chakra....Edo Madara...nuff said lmao

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#59 Edited by MyGod000 (716 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000 said:

https://mangapark.net/manga/naruto/i1354685/4

If being Edo gives you unlimited chakra then they should be able to make an unlimited amount of Shadow Clones

Clearly, that isn't the case like I said that unlimited chakra line was only used once then it was thrown away shortly after.

There's 2 ways that I think that could be explained.......:

1:

They were being drained of chakra. In the link you provided, Hashirama makes an effort to say "in this barrier", so can he make more while out of the barrier? Of fu*king course, Edo Hashirama>Edo Madara.....he always had more chakra than madara who when playing with kages can make 25(?) wood clones for each kage......and you're telling me he can only make 3(4) clones?

No Caption Provided

And I find it hard to believe that Tobirama, a kage lv dude and the creator of shadow clone can only make TWO clones while Kakashi a jonin can make more....:/

2:

Different users different results.......

That's all my reseaning.lol

I mean, I really don't think that link you provided disproves anything. Edo Itachi was able to spam amaterasu with like crazy and use sussano(it drains chakra), and he was still full of chakra....Edo Madara...nuff said lmao

that wouldn't make sense even if they were being drained of chakra while in the barrier. Like I said if they have unlimited chakra no amount of draining will change that at all.

Also, Tobirama didn't even mention being drained of chakra.

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#60 Posted by UltimateSage (4039 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000 said:

that wouldn't make sense even if they were being drained of chakra while in the barrier. Like I said if they have unlimited chakra no amount of draining will change that at all.

Ii's not that they have unlimited chakra right there in use, they have their normal chakra capacity lv...if they use it up it/or it goes down....it just refills back up.

How would you explain the 25+ sussano clones madara made it not for infinite chakra??

Also, Tobirama didn't even mention being drained of chakra.

He didn't.......but what he did say was a surprised "only two" clearly suggesting that the amount of clones he made was abnormal to even himself.

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#61 Edited by MyGod000 (716 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultimatesage said:
@mygod000 said:

that wouldn't make sense even if they were being drained of chakra while in the barrier. Like I said if they have unlimited chakra no amount of draining will change that at all.

Ii's not that they have unlimited chakra right there in use, they have their normal chakra capacity lv...if they use it up it/or it goes down....it just refills back up.

How would you explain the 25+ sussano clones madara made it not for infinite chakra??

Also, Tobirama didn't even mention being drained of chakra.

He didn't.......but what he did say was a surprised "only two" clearly suggesting that the amount of clones he made was abnormal to even himself.

do you have proof that Madara can't do that as EMS? since it was stated that EMS>>Edo Madara.

After all, Madara had a 24hour death fight with Hashirama, as EMS if you are implying in that span of time the chakra used wouldn't at least equal or surpass using 25+ Susanoo than you are crazy.

That isn't the point, you said they have unlimited chakra so by that logic they should be able to make an unlimited amount of Clones as well regardless of how good they are at making the clones.

Avatar image for ultimatesage
#62 Posted by UltimateSage (4039 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000 said:

do you have proof that Madara can't do that as EMS? since it was stated that EMS>>Edo Madara.

You're right, EMS>edo madara...but not in chakra lvs.

Itachi>Edo itachi....but not in chakra

After all, Madara had a 24hour death fight with Hashirama, as EMS if you are implying in that span of time the chakra used wouldn't at least equal or surpass using 25+ Susanoo than you are crazy.

This is something you have to prove. You use stamina to knead and create chakra.....if EMS Madara has the stamina then of course he can fight for days on. But guess what edo tensei have.... unlimited stamina which means they'll never run out of chakra, which is why they have access to “unlimited” chakra

That isn't the point, you said they have unlimited chakra so by that logic they should be able to make an unlimited amount of Clones as well regardless of how good they are at making the clones.

bro.....You have unlimited chakra, but you don't have unlimited chakra output. The way it works is that they will never be at less than 100% of their chakra capacity.

Avatar image for mygod000
#63 Posted by MyGod000 (716 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000 said:

do you have proof that Madara can't do that as EMS? since it was stated that EMS>>Edo Madara.

You're right, EMS>edo madara...but not in chakra lvs.

Itachi>Edo itachi....but not in chakra

After all, Madara had a 24hour death fight with Hashirama, as EMS if you are implying in that span of time the chakra used wouldn't at least equal or surpass using 25+ Susanoo than you are crazy.

This is something you have to prove. You use stamina to knead and create chakra.....if EMS Madara has the stamina then of course he can fight for days on. But guess what edo tensei have.... unlimited stamina which means they'll never run out of chakra, which is why they have access to “unlimited” chakra

That isn't the point, you said they have unlimited chakra so by that logic they should be able to make an unlimited amount of Clones as well regardless of how good they are at making the clones.

bro.....You have unlimited chakra, but you don't have unlimited chakra output. The way it works is that they will never be at less than 100% of their chakra capacity.

The fact KCM Naruto was able to Create 12 clones and all of them where powerful enough to one shot Kage level fighters.

Yes, Madara can make 25 clones and have then go base human body Susanoo. EMS Madara>>>>>>KCM Naruto. It shouldn't be out of the question for EMS Madara who is several Tiers above KCM Naruto.

Did you forget Tobirama outright stated he only had enough chakra to teleport one person so again too many things debunk the unlimited chakra argument for edo.

Avatar image for nausea
#64 Posted by Nausea (127 posts) - - Show Bio

Numbers of KBs is not so relevant, what matters in fact is the quality of KBs not their numbers.

Madara was born with the most powerful chakra in the clan that has the most powerful chakra, was also born with the largest chakra in its clan, Madara showed excellent chakra control!

Powerful Chakra + Huge Chakra + Chakra Control Top = Jutsus overpowers

Edo Tensei is not a divine jutsu, this jutsu has its limitations.

Shinobi who possessed powerful bodies in life being reanimated in corpses being as strong as their living versions .... the answer is no!
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#65 Edited by UltimateSage (4039 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000 said:

The fact KCM Naruto was able to Create 12 clones and all of them where powerful enough to one shot Kage level fighters.

Why're you telling me this....?

Yes, Madara can make 25 clones and have then go base human body Susanoo.

Something you have to prove alive madara can do.....for wood clones having the same chakra requirement as shadow cloned and for the sussano constantly draining ones chakra....and edo madara made 25 of those and could later one go to creating a forest. Can EMS do those things?

EMS Madara>>>>>>KCM Naruto. It shouldn't be out of the question for EMS Madara who is several Tiers above KCM Naruto.

Yeah no, being several tiers above someone doesn't mean you have more chakra than them....EMS sasuke is above KCM naruto as well yet he doesn't have nearly as much chakra as him.

Naruto is half Uzumaki+Asura reincarnation+a jinchuriki=more chakra than almost every(except Hashirama)

You know this kinda goes against cuz.....if Alive madara has more/the same chakra lv as edo madara who can make 25 wood clones....then how the hell is Hashirama the guy with more chakra than madara only be able to create 3(4) clones?

Did you forget Tobirama outright stated he only had enough chakra to teleport one person so again too many things debunk the unlimited chakra argument for edo.

He was talking about being able to teleport only 1 juubidama with his Flying Thunder God, minato next to him says he could teleport 2 of them...that jutsu just has to do with control.

Nothing has debunked unlimited chakra as of yet.

Avatar image for mygod000
#66 Posted by MyGod000 (716 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000 said:

The fact KCM Naruto was able to Create 12 clones and all of them where powerful enough to one shot Kage level fighters.

Why're you telling me this....?

Yes, Madara can make 25 clones and have then go base human body Susanoo.

Something you have to prove alive madara can do.....for wood clones having the same chakra requirement as shadow cloned and for the sussano constantly draining ones chakra....and edo madara made 25 of those and could later one go to creating a forest. Can EMS do those things?

EMS Madara>>>>>>KCM Naruto. It shouldn't be out of the question for EMS Madara who is several Tiers above KCM Naruto.

Yeah no, being several tiers above someone doesn't mean you have more chakra than them....EMS sasuke is above KCM naruto as well yet he doesn't have nearly as much chakra as him.

Naruto is half Uzumaki+Asura reincarnation+a jinchuriki=more chakra than almost every(except Hashirama)

You know this kinda goes against cuz.....if Alive madara has more/the same chakra lv as edo madara who can make 25 wood clones....then how the hell is Hashirama the guy with more chakra than madara only be able to create 3(4) clones?

Did you forget Tobirama outright stated he only had enough chakra to teleport one person so again too many things debunk the unlimited chakra argument for edo.

He was talking about being able to teleport only 1 juubidama with his Flying Thunder God, minato next to him says he could teleport 2 of them...that jutsu just has to do with control.

Nothing has debunked unlimited chakra as of yet.

Like I said it proves my point if KCM naruto who has far less chakra pool Than EMS Madara can make 12 KCM clones then Madara has no trouble.

Even Obito was able to Spam his MS abilities which should drain him just as much as a Susanoo, and he was doing this while Control 6 JJ at the same time and was still able to fight Naruto and Bee.

Madara Chakra pool>>>>>Obito's

Madara chakra Reseves>>>>>>obito's

That is a poor Argument anyways how does Edo prove Alive Madara can't make 25 of them? they obviously wouldn't be as powerful as the Real Madara, but they be still powerful enough to one shot kage level fighters easily since each of KCM naruto's KCM Clones could.

right their support my claim, Obito and KCM are both Several tiers below Madara. No EMS Sasuke wasn't above KCM Naruto. they were on par the only reason Sasuke would be above Naruto at that point was that he could go full body Susanoo and no proof that Naruto could use Kurama avatar while in KCM. We know once Naruto went BM he could, who was so weak he couldn't even break throw EDO Madara's Susanoo Aura. not even his Susanoo but the aura of his Susanoo was too much.

I am not talking about that, I am talking about when Sasuke asked Tobirama how many people he can teleport right now and Tobirama stated only one when we know before he could do two at least, which proves my point EDO doesn't mean you have unlimited chakra, you can still be out of chakra, and have to infuse more you are not constantly at 100% of your chakra otherwise there is no need to infuse chakra in begin with. you only infuse chakra when you are running low.

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#67 Posted by UltimateSage (4039 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000 said:

Like I said it proves my point if KCM naruto who has far less chakra pool Than EMS Madara can make 12 KCM clones then Madara has no trouble.

Naruto has more chakra...so it doesn't prove your point at all.

Even Obito was able to Spam his MS abilities which should drain him just as much as a Susanoo, and he was doing this while Control 6 JJ at the same time and was still able to fight Naruto and Bee.

Couple things wrong with that......sussano drains hella more chakra than simply using a MS ability, sasuke tells us this directly when he was barely using the rib cage version of sussanno......another thing, obito's body is made of Hashirama cells...so an added chakra boost, regenerating and less strain on the MS abilities....last but not least, he doesn't need chakra to control the edo JJ, that was a major part of Edo Tensi, once it's started no more chakra is required......and kabuto would be the one controlling them honestly.

Madara Chakra pool>>>>>Obito's

Madara chakra Reseves>>>>>>obito's

Same thing

That is a poor Argument anyways how does Edo prove Alive Madara can't make 25 of them? they obviously wouldn't be as powerful as the Real Madara, but they be still powerful enough to one shot kage level fighters easily since each of KCM naruto's KCM Clones could.

Edo making 25 wood clones each with their own sussano proves alive madara can't do the same because we're told edo have more chakra/don't run out of it.

KCM naruto being able to make kage lv clones doesn't mean alive Madara can seeing as naruto has more chakra than him.

right their support my claim, Obito and KCM are both Several tiers below Madara. No EMS Sasuke wasn't above KCM Naruto. they were on par the only reason Sasuke would be above Naruto at that point was that he could go full body Susanoo and no proof that Naruto could use Kurama avatar while in KCM. We know once Naruto went BM he could, who was so weak he couldn't even break throw EDO Madara's Susanoo Aura. not even his Susanoo but the aura of his Susanoo was too much.

EMS was keeping up with BM, he stomps KCM naruto....what're you even talking about?

Are you talking about this Madara's susanoo tanks a Giant Rasengan? That's not BM lol

And just to be clear, being stronger than someone doesn't mean you have more chakra than them(ex: kid naruto vs kakashi..etc)

I am not talking about that, I am talking about when Sasuke asked Tobirama how many people he can teleport right now and Tobirama stated only one when we know before he could do two at least,

Go read that chapter again......he was talking about the 4 juubidama and how there would need to be one person per juubidama to teleport them:teleport one Bijuu Dama

And he clearly didn't have any problems teleporting:

which proves my point EDO doesn't mean you have unlimited chakra, you can still be out of chakra, and have to infuse more you are not constantly at 100% of your chakra otherwise there is no need to infuse chakra in begin with. you only infuse chakra when you are running low.

THIS IS WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING ALL DAY!!

Did you miss them of something?0.o......"You use stamina to knead and create chakra. Edos have unlimited stamina which means thy never run out of chakra, which is why they have access to “unlimited” chakra"..........."The way it actually works is that they will never be at less than 100% of their chakra capacity".

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#68 Posted by MyGod000 (716 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000 said:

Like I said it proves my point if KCM naruto who has far less chakra pool Than EMS Madara can make 12 KCM clones then Madara has no trouble.

Naruto has more chakra...so it doesn't prove your point at all.

Even Obito was able to Spam his MS abilities which should drain him just as much as a Susanoo, and he was doing this while Control 6 JJ at the same time and was still able to fight Naruto and Bee.

Couple things wrong with that......sussano drains hella more chakra than simply using a MS ability, sasuke tells us this directly when he was barely using the rib cage version of sussanno......another thing, obito's body is made of Hashirama cells...so an added chakra boost, regenerating and less strain on the MS abilities....last but not least, he doesn't need chakra to control the edo JJ, that was a major part of Edo Tensi, once it's started no more chakra is required......and kabuto would be the one controlling them honestly.

Madara Chakra pool>>>>>Obito's

Madara chakra Reseves>>>>>>obito's

Same thing

That is a poor Argument anyways how does Edo prove Alive Madara can't make 25 of them? they obviously wouldn't be as powerful as the Real Madara, but they be still powerful enough to one shot kage level fighters easily since each of KCM naruto's KCM Clones could.

Edo making 25 wood clones each with their own sussano proves alive madara can't do the same because we're told edo have more chakra/don't run out of it.

KCM naruto being able to make kage lv clones doesn't mean alive Madara can seeing as naruto has more chakra than him.

right their support my claim, Obito and KCM are both Several tiers below Madara. No EMS Sasuke wasn't above KCM Naruto. they were on par the only reason Sasuke would be above Naruto at that point was that he could go full body Susanoo and no proof that Naruto could use Kurama avatar while in KCM. We know once Naruto went BM he could, who was so weak he couldn't even break throw EDO Madara's Susanoo Aura. not even his Susanoo but the aura of his Susanoo was too much.

EMS was keeping up with BM, he stomps KCM naruto....what're you even talking about?

Are you talking about this Madara's susanoo tanks a Giant Rasengan? That's not BM lol

And just to be clear, being stronger than someone doesn't mean you have more chakra than them(ex: kid naruto vs kakashi..etc)

I am not talking about that, I am talking about when Sasuke asked Tobirama how many people he can teleport right now and Tobirama stated only one when we know before he could do two at least,

Go read that chapter again......he was talking about the 4 juubidama and how there would need to be one person per juubidama to teleport them:teleport one Bijuu Dama

And he clearly didn't have any problems teleporting:

which proves my point EDO doesn't mean you have unlimited chakra, you can still be out of chakra, and have to infuse more you are not constantly at 100% of your chakra otherwise there is no need to infuse chakra in begin with. you only infuse chakra when you are running low.

THIS IS WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING ALL DAY!!

Did you miss them of something?0.o......"You use stamina to knead and create chakra. Edos have unlimited stamina which means thy never run out of chakra, which is why they have access to “unlimited” chakra"..........."The way it actually works is that they will never be at less than 100% of their chakra capacity".

Wrong, Madara has far more chakra than KCM Naruto. Naruto is more effective with shadow Clones than Madara is, which doesn't take a Rocket Scientist to figure that out.

Naruto chakra is only as high as it is because of the 9 tails without it he is nowhere near the highest. Technically that isn't even a sound argument because Naruto is not only using his chakra but also drawing on the 9 tails Chakra who can literally replenish naruto's chakra at any point during combat. while Madara is relying on his own Chakra. like I said Madara chakra>>>>>>>>>>Naruto's chakra.

Couple things wrong with that......sussano drains hella more chakra than simply using a MS ability, sasuke tells us this directly when he was barely using the rib cage version of sussanno......another thing, obito's body is made of Hashirama cells...so an added chakra boost, regenerating and less strain on the MS abilities....last but not least, he doesn't need chakra to control the edo JJ, that was a major part of Edo Tensi, once it's started no more chakra is required......and kabuto would be the one controlling them hones

EMS Madara chakra>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>EMS sasuke>>>>That Sasuke. it irrelevant talking about Sasuke during his kage summit because EMS Sasuke as Madara stated is nothing compared to him or an ant to him in compared powers.

And Naruto uses the 9 tails chakra along with his so what your point? if we are going to talk about what everyone cheat code is just remembered naruto has one of the biggest cheat codes in the series of Naruto drawing power from something that is a manifestation of chakra and most of the 10 tails powers. no point in bringing up an irrelevant argument like you are doing, take the 9 tails away and Naruto is far weaker than EMS Sasuke.

Edo making 25 wood clones each with their own sussano proves alive madara can't do the same because we're told edo have more chakra/don't run out of it.

KCM naruto being able to make kage lv clones doesn't mean alive Madara can seeing as naruto has more chakra than him.

no, they don't. the only thing about EDO is that they don't ever die they still have to infuse chakra.

EMS was keeping up with BM, he stomps KCM naruto....what're you even talking about?

Are you talking about this Madara's susanoo tanks a Giant Rasengan? That's not BM lol

And just to be clear, being stronger than someone doesn't mean you have more chakra than them(ex: kid naruto vs kakashi..etc)

just realize that is Naruto using 9 tails power with his own powers. which proves my point with the 9 tails helping naruto his powers isn't all that high, his chakra pools are not that massive... he just so happens to have one of the most powerful entities in the series helping him at every turn when he is outmatched.

Wasn't talking about that, I am talking about when Madara got Gunbi back from Obito BM naruto throw those rods that Obito tried to get the 8 tails with and throw it at Madara who blocked it with just an aura of his Susanoo.

Go read that chapter again......he was talking about the 4 juubidama and how there would need to be one person per juubidama to teleport them:teleport one Bijuu Dama

And he clearly didn't have any problems teleporting:

You need you to read chapters again, I am not talking about with the 4 Juubidama. I made it clear what i was talking about already.

No Caption Provided

That is what I am talking about, Tobirama stated he can only do 1 at the moment which proves again that he doesn't have unlimited chakra...this was after the Rods got removed from him.

THIS IS WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING ALL DAY!!

Did you miss them of something?0.o......"You use stamina to knead and create chakra. Edos have unlimited stamina which means thy never run out of chakra, which is why they have access to “unlimited” chakra"..........."The way it actually works is that they will never be at less than 100% of their chakra capacity".

you keep saying that but you have nothing that proves that you are reaching on one statement that you read wrong, and trying to apply it to everyone else.

No Caption Provided

Stated by Edo Minato that all his chakra was drained. you can't claim someone has unlimited of anything if it can be drained to nothing.

Lastly, I showed you 4 links that all point to 1 thing that Edo's don't have unlimited chakra.

Madara stated unbounded EDO when they break the contract has unlimited chakra, Last I checked Madara was the only one to have broken the contract.

No Caption Provided

that Chakra stuff of being drained while inside the barrier, Madara didn't suffer those effects nor did he state his chakra was being drained when he was inside the barrier as well.

stop reaching for the stars with that pitiful argument, you have one statement which you read wrong.

unbound EDO=unlimited chakra, bound EDO Tensei don't have unlimited chakra which I have proven.

so until you can disprove that, CONCESSION ACCEPTED.

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#69 Edited by ArtoriasAbyssWalker (653 posts) - - Show Bio

Obito wasted the use of the Rinnegan. Didn't do jack sh** with it so it makes no difference here. I will say Kage wins because of Gaara. They lose without him. Gaara's sand waves is key to keep Obito from materializing or warping until Gaara catches him and kills him.

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#70 Posted by Tony_Shark (2132 posts) - - Show Bio

@artoriasabysswalker: What's Gaaras counter to a Rinnengan genjutsu? Izanagi? Kamui teleport?

Obito was barely sweating against KCM Naruto who is MUCH stronger than any of the kage.

His Uchiha Barrier no-sold a punch from Hachibi and he was adept enough to react to Gais taijutsu who is praised to be above anyone else's by Madara himself.

He's reacted to Ay, teleported faster than Onokis Jinton.

Hell Tsunade was shitting herself when she found out that he had access Hashiramas regen.

Add wood style, genjutsu strong enough to control the nine tails, strength that matches Naruto, and chakra reserves to rein in 6 tailed beasts all on their own.

Obito is super OP.

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#71 Posted by UltimateSage (4039 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000 said:

Wrong, Madara has far more chakra than KCM Naruto. Naruto is more effective with shadow Clones than Madara is, which doesn't take a Rocket Scientist to figure that out.

No he doesn't......indra reincarnations always had less chakra than ashura ones.

Naruto chakra is only as high as it is because of the 9 tails without it he is nowhere near the highest. Technically that isn't even a sound argument because Naruto is not only using his chakra but also drawing on the 9 tails Chakra who can literally replenish naruto's chakra at any point during combat. while Madara is relying on his own Chakra. like I said Madara chakra>>>>>>>>>>Naruto's chakra.

Did you skip the whole wind training arc naruto did with kakashi? Even without kurama's chakra he's still able to make as much clones as they are leafs on a tree....and he has 4x more chakra than an average jonin without kurama.

No Caption Provided

Did you also skip over this^^? Naruto has to worry about kurama taking his chakra.....so the 9-taild isn't replenishing sh*t.....and still naruto>>>madara in chakra.

EMS Madara chakra>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>EMS sasuke>>>>That Sasuke. it irrelevant talking about Sasuke during his kage summit because EMS Sasuke as Madara stated is nothing compared to him or an ant to him in compared powers.

Madara being >>sasuke doesn't mean much when sasuke's chakra lv aren't even on the halfway mark on naruto's.......and even Hashirama compared sasuke chakra to madara.

And Naruto uses the 9 tails chakra along with his so what your point? if we are going to talk about what everyone cheat code is just remembered naruto has one of the biggest cheat codes in the series of Naruto drawing power from something that is a manifestation of chakra and most of the 10 tails powers. no point in bringing up an irrelevant argument like you are doing, take the 9 tails away and Naruto is far weaker than EMS Sasuke.

Already went over this......even if you took away the kyuubi from naruto, he'll still have more and hella more chakra than sasuke lmao.

no, they don't. the only thing about EDO is that they don't ever die they still have to infuse chakra.

I never said they didn't have to...sooooo?

just realize that is Naruto using 9 tails power with his own powers. which proves my point with the 9 tails helping naruto his powers isn't all that high, his chakra pools are not that massive... he just so happens to have one of the most powerful entities in the series helping him at every turn when he is outmatched.

Soo? He's still an Uzumaki and ashura reincarnation.....he would still have more chakra than the average ninja, just like what kakashi said

Wasn't talking about that, I am talking about when Madara got Gunbi back from Obito BM naruto throw those rods that Obito tried to get the 8 tails with and throw it at Madara who blocked it with just an aura of his Susanoo.

Stop saying stuff out if content.....those rods weren't naruto's(they were obito's)....so how is them not being able to get through madara's aura mean naruto himself is weaker than madara? Why'd didn't madara just let the mini bijuudama hit his aura if he's "stronger" than BM then?

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Guess........cuz he wasn't.

You need you to read chapters again, I am not talking about with the 4 Juubidama. I made it clear what i was talking about already.

No Caption Provided

That is what I am talking about, Tobirama stated he can only do 1 at the moment which proves again that he doesn't have unlimited chakra...this was after the Rods got removed from him.

I don't know what's so hard to understand about this......black receivers block the molding process of chakra....so of course after having 3(?) of those in his body makes it impossible for him to be at full power....he even says himself "with my current power". I also gave you links with how he can send more than 1 person.

you keep saying that but you have nothing that proves that you are reaching on one statement that you read wrong, and trying to apply it to everyone else.

No Caption Provided

Stated by Edo Minato that all his chakra was drained. you can't claim someone has unlimited of anything if it can be drained to nothing.

Dude, they don't have 100% chakra lv all the time.....it's just that it will refill right back up...you use stamina to knead and create chakra. Edos have unlimited stamina which means thy never run out of chakra, which is why they have access to “unlimited” chakra

That scan you posted should be a great example as well seeing as normal ninjas(even naruto) were dying from having all their chakra sucked out while the edos were fine.

Lastly, I showed you 4 links that all point to 1 thing that Edo's don't have unlimited chakra.

You're trying to prove alive Madara has more chakra than Edo madara who can make 25 wood clones each with their own sussano while the guy(Hashirama) who has more chakra than madara can only make 4...0.o

Madara stated unbounded EDO when they break the contract has unlimited chakra, Last I checked Madara was the only one to have broken the contract.

No Caption Provided

that Chakra stuff of being drained while inside the barrier, Madara didn't suffer those effects nor did he state his chakra was being drained when he was inside the barrier as well.

Now you're just making stuff up......if what you just is true then all edo tensei except for the unbound ones shouldn't be immortal/undying as well, right?lol

And of course madara wasn't getting his chakra drained...he wasn't the one holding it up or the one taking part in making it.lmao

stop reaching for the stars with that pitiful argument, you have one statement which you read wrong.

I'm sorry, the only one reaching for the stars is you. What are we told Edo Tensei is?= A immortal undying body and unlimited chakra......how are we told chakra is molded?= stamina/physical and mental/spiritual energy.......what do the edo tensei never out of=stamina energy.....conclusion= edo Tensei have unlimited chakra because they can keep molding more chakra after using up the chakra they have.

unbound EDO=unlimited chakra, bound EDO Tensei don't have unlimited chakra which I have proven.

Something you just made up right now......there's no difference between unbound edo and bound except for one being out of the summoners control.

Did edo itachi have more chakra than alive?yup, how about edo nagato?yup, edo haku?yup, edo madara?yup. You haven't disproven sh*t.

so until you can disprove that, CONCESSION ACCEPTED.

I'll keep the concession.....you can take this "L" tho.......

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#72 Edited by MyGod000 (716 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultimatesage said:
@mygod000 said:

Wrong, Madara has far more chakra than KCM Naruto. Naruto is more effective with shadow Clones than Madara is, which doesn't take a Rocket Scientist to figure that out.

No he doesn't......indra reincarnations always had less chakra than ashura ones.

Naruto chakra is only as high as it is because of the 9 tails without it he is nowhere near the highest. Technically that isn't even a sound argument because Naruto is not only using his chakra but also drawing on the 9 tails Chakra who can literally replenish naruto's chakra at any point during combat. while Madara is relying on his own Chakra. like I said Madara chakra>>>>>>>>>>Naruto's chakra.

Did you skip the whole wind training arc naruto did with kakashi? Even without kurama's chakra he's still able to make as much clones as they are leafs on a tree....and he has 4x more chakra than an average jonin without kurama.

No Caption Provided

Did you also skip over this^^? Naruto has to worry about kurama taking his chakra.....so the 9-taild isn't replenishing sh*t.....and still naruto>>>madara in chakra.

EMS Madara chakra>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>EMS sasuke>>>>That Sasuke. it irrelevant talking about Sasuke during his kage summit because EMS Sasuke as Madara stated is nothing compared to him or an ant to him in compared powers.

Madara being >>sasuke doesn't mean much when sasuke's chakra lv aren't even on the halfway mark on naruto's.......and even Hashirama compared sasuke chakra to madara.

And Naruto uses the 9 tails chakra along with his so what your point? if we are going to talk about what everyone cheat code is just remembered naruto has one of the biggest cheat codes in the series of Naruto drawing power from something that is a manifestation of chakra and most of the 10 tails powers. no point in bringing up an irrelevant argument like you are doing, take the 9 tails away and Naruto is far weaker than EMS Sasuke.

Already went over this......even if you took away the kyuubi from naruto, he'll still have more and hella more chakra than sasuke lmao.

no, they don't. the only thing about EDO is that they don't ever die they still have to infuse chakra.

I never said they didn't have to...sooooo?

just realize that is Naruto using 9 tails power with his own powers. which proves my point with the 9 tails helping naruto his powers isn't all that high, his chakra pools are not that massive... he just so happens to have one of the most powerful entities in the series helping him at every turn when he is outmatched.

Soo? He's still an Uzumaki and ashura reincarnation.....he would still have more chakra than the average ninja, just like what kakashi said

Wasn't talking about that, I am talking about when Madara got Gunbi back from Obito BM naruto throw those rods that Obito tried to get the 8 tails with and throw it at Madara who blocked it with just an aura of his Susanoo.

Stop saying stuff out if content.....those rods weren't naruto's(they were obito's)....so how is them not being able to get through madara's aura mean naruto himself is weaker than madara? Why'd didn't madara just let the mini bijuudama hit his aura if he's "stronger" than BM then?

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Guess........cuz he wasn't.

You need you to read chapters again, I am not talking about with the 4 Juubidama. I made it clear what i was talking about already.

No Caption Provided

That is what I am talking about, Tobirama stated he can only do 1 at the moment which proves again that he doesn't have unlimited chakra...this was after the Rods got removed from him.

I don't know what's so hard to understand about this......black receivers block the molding process of chakra....so of course after having 3(?) of those in his body makes it impossible for him to be at full power....he even says himself "with my current power". I also gave you links with how he can send more than 1 person.

you keep saying that but you have nothing that proves that you are reaching on one statement that you read wrong, and trying to apply it to everyone else.

No Caption Provided

Stated by Edo Minato that all his chakra was drained. you can't claim someone has unlimited of anything if it can be drained to nothing.

Dude, they don't have 100% chakra lv all the time.....it's just that it will refill right back up...you use stamina to knead and create chakra. Edos have unlimited stamina which means thy never run out of chakra, which is why they have access to “unlimited” chakra

That scan you posted should be a great example as well seeing as normal ninjas(even naruto) were dying from having all their chakra sucked out while the edos were fine.

Lastly, I showed you 4 links that all point to 1 thing that Edo's don't have unlimited chakra.

You're trying to prove alive Madara has more chakra than Edo madara who can make 25 wood clones each with their own sussano while the guy(Hashirama) who has more chakra than madara can only make 4...0.o

Madara stated unbounded EDO when they break the contract has unlimited chakra, Last I checked Madara was the only one to have broken the contract.

No Caption Provided

that Chakra stuff of being drained while inside the barrier, Madara didn't suffer those effects nor did he state his chakra was being drained when he was inside the barrier as well.

Now you're just making stuff up......if what you just is true then all edo tensei except for the unbound ones shouldn't be immortal/undying as well, right?lol

And of course madara wasn't getting his chakra drained...he wasn't the one holding it up or the one taking part in making it.lmao

stop reaching for the stars with that pitiful argument, you have one statement which you read wrong.

I'm sorry, the only one reaching for the stars is you. What are we told Edo Tensei is?= A immortal undying body and unlimited chakra......how are we told chakra is molded?= stamina/physical and mental/spiritual energy.......what do the edo tensei never out of=stamina energy.....conclusion= edo Tensei have unlimited chakra because they can keep molding more chakra after using up the chakra they have.

unbound EDO=unlimited chakra, bound EDO Tensei don't have unlimited chakra which I have proven.

Something you just made up right now......there's no difference between unbound edo and bound except for one being out of the summoners control.

Did edo itachi have more chakra than alive?yup, how about edo nagato?yup, edo haku?yup, edo madara?yup. You haven't disproven sh*t.

so until you can disprove that, CONCESSION ACCEPTED.

I'll keep the concession.....you can take this "L" tho.......

We are not talking about Indra Chakra we are talking about Madara's Which is a lot more than Naruto's.

how does having 4x Join level chakra helps your case again? Too bad Hashirama has more Chakra then Naruto and he and Madara are pretty comparable.

No, you said they had unlimited chakra, I said they don't and proved it doesn't have unlimited chakra.

  1. was drained by the Tree to nothing.
  2. Edo Hashirama and Tobirama were affected by the Barrier while Madara who was unbound wasn't.
  3. stated by Madara unbound EDO having unlimited.

don't waste my Time again, If you were just going to ignore all the factually evidence debunking your ludicrous claim then you shouldn't ask people for proof if you are just going to ignore it anyway.

Lastly, what does it matter if Naruto throws Obito's Rods? It was still thrown by BM Naruto...it would be just as potent as if he throws one of his Kuni or shuriken doesn't make it any less powerful. Also, Being inside the Barrier never weakened the Edo it was a hypothesis, that isn't even sound argument since it just a stronger version of the one the Sound 4 used to trap Hiruzen and nothing was stated about him losing chakra or being weakened by the Barrier.

All you've been doing is reaching in here, your argument is based on Madara's Statement which he made as he was about to break the Edo Tensei Contract. when debating if too many things Contradict your claim or a statement then you drop that claim or statement since there are too many negatives that go against that one statement.

Take the L, and hold it tightly...don't @ me again because the debate is going in circles when I Already proved you wrong. If you @ again I'll be calling a mod. I had such respect for you as a naruto Debater welp not anymore.

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#73 Posted by UltimateSage (4039 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000:

We are not talking about Indra Chakra we are talking about Madara's Which is a lot more than Naruto's.

Yeah, indra less chakra than ashura, madara less chakra than Hashirama, sasuke less chakra than naruto...all indra reincarnated have less chakra than ashura onee.....that's literally how the whole point about the reincarnation.

how does having 4x Join level chakra helps your case again? Too bad Hashirama has more Chakra then Naruto and he and Madara are pretty comparable.

Naruto has 4x more chakra than a jonin like kakashi with only 98% of his whole chakra......naruto does indeed have less chakra than Hashirama until he gets BSM....and this doesn't matter much as madara himself has far less chakra than Hashirama....and him and Hashirama are nowhere equal lmao

No, you said they had unlimited chakra, I said they don't and proved it doesn't have unlimited chakra.

What I said "What are we told Edo Tensei is?= A immortal undying body and unlimited chakra......how are we told chakra is molded?= stamina/physical and mental/spiritual energy.......what do the edo tensei never out of=stamina energy.....conclusion= edo Tensei have unlimited chakra because they can keep molding more chakra after using up the chakra they have".

was drained by the Tree to nothing.

Cuz they run out of chakra duh, their not at 100% capacity like that

Edo Hashirama and Tobirama were affected by the Barrier while Madara who was unbound wasn't.

He wasn't the one casting the god damn jutsu duhh

stated by Madara unbound EDO having unlimited.

Something you just made up right now......there's no difference between unbound edo and bound except for one being out of the summoners control.

don't waste my Time again, If you were just going to ignore all the factually evidence debunking your ludicrous claim then you should ask people for proof if you are just going to ignore it anyway.

You make stuff up as you go, you ignore the manga content and you try to change the manga for what it's not.......and now you're getting mad?lmao

Take the L, and hold it tightly...don't @ me again because the debate is going in circles when I Already proved you wrong. If you @ again I'll be calling a mod. I had such respect for you as a naruto Debater welp not anymore.

On no, you can keep the L....I'll even give you 2 others BS Debater....LBS Debater...keep your new name safe.

Go ahead and tag the mods so they can put you on penalty for wasting their time, my time and everyone else's time.

Seriously, you're thinking the unlimited chakra is like a pool that never runs and iis just there.... ..guess what tho? Chakra doesn't work like that....it does run out, you use stamina to knead and create chakra.....when normal ninjas run out if stamina, they can't make more chakra....Edos have unlimited stamina which means they never run out of fhe things required to make chakra, which is why they have access to “unlimited” chakra.

And as for your respect towards me.......you can keep, lock it up, and look at it every time you feel down.....cuz:

No Caption Provided

.

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#74 Edited by MyGod000 (716 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultimatesage said:

@mygod000:

We are not talking about Indra Chakra we are talking about Madara's Which is a lot more than Naruto's.

Yeah, indra less chakra than ashura, madara less chakra than Hashirama, sasuke less chakra than naruto...all indra reincarnated have less chakra than ashura onee.....that's literally how the whole point about the reincarnation.

how does having 4x Join level chakra helps your case again? Too bad Hashirama has more Chakra then Naruto and he and Madara are pretty comparable.

Naruto has 4x more chakra than a jonin like kakashi with only 98% of his whole chakra......naruto does indeed have less chakra than Hashirama until he gets BSM....and this doesn't matter much as madara himself has far less chakra than Hashirama....and him and Hashirama are nowhere equal lmao

No, you said they had unlimited chakra, I said they don't and proved it doesn't have unlimited chakra.

What I said "What are we told Edo Tensei is?= A immortal undying body and unlimited chakra......how are we told chakra is molded?= stamina/physical and mental/spiritual energy.......what do the edo tensei never out of=stamina energy.....conclusion= edo Tensei have unlimited chakra because they can keep molding more chakra after using up the chakra they have".

was drained by the Tree to nothing.

Cuz they run out of chakra duh, their not at 100% capacity like that

Edo Hashirama and Tobirama were affected by the Barrier while Madara who was unbound wasn't.

He wasn't the one casting the god damn jutsu duhh

stated by Madara unbound EDO having unlimited.

Something you just made up right now......there's no difference between unbound edo and bound except for one being out of the summoners control.

don't waste my Time again, If you were just going to ignore all the factually evidence debunking your ludicrous claim then you should ask people for proof if you are just going to ignore it anyway.

You make stuff up as you go, you ignore the manga content and you try to change the manga for what it's not.......and now you're getting mad?lmao

Take the L, and hold it tightly...don't @ me again because the debate is going in circles when I Already proved you wrong. If you @ again I'll be calling a mod. I had such respect for you as a naruto Debater welp not anymore.

On no, you can keep the L....I'll even give you 2 others BS Debater....LBS Debater...keep your new name safe.

Go ahead and tag the mods so they can put you on penalty for wasting their time, my time and everyone else's time.

Seriously, you're thinking the unlimited chakra is like a pool that never runs and iis just there.... ..guess what tho? Chakra doesn't work like that....it does run out, you use stamina to knead and create chakra.....when normal ninjas run out if stamina, they can't make more chakra....Edos have unlimited stamina which means they never run out of fhe things required to make chakra, which is why they have access to “unlimited” chakra.

And as for your respect towards me.......you can keep, lock it up, and look at it every time you feel down.....cuz:

No Caption Provided

.

I'll accept the unlimited Stamina, but not unlimited chakra.

Like I said take the L because you literally started the argument about them having unlimited chakra and I debunked it. so Keep that L

Stop @me

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#75 Posted by ArtoriasAbyssWalker (653 posts) - - Show Bio

@tony_shark: I don't find Obito to be that strong. He's just really hard to hit and that's what makes him formidable. Take away his intangibility and he would have been dead a long time ago. But that's why I said Gaara is the key to the kages victory because spamming sand storms and keeping Obito from able to materialize, Obito won't be able to attack and eventually would end up getting caught.

By the way, what the hell is a Rinnegan genjutsu? Is that actually a thing?

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#76 Edited by UltimateSage (4039 posts) - - Show Bio

Don't worry, ain't nobody gon tag you with the way you bring "evidence" and "disprove" things.smh

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#77 Edited by ikbalsingh (35 posts) - - Show Bio

Obito is really underrated. Obito can attack while being intangible. He just has to materialize to suck people in.

This means that he can use a black rod to hit someone while someone is attacking him, which makes him the deadliest person in CQC.

Even Juubi Madara had to back off because Obito continued to suck chakra while being intangible and Madara couldn't do shit.

That rules out CQC. Next up long range attacks.

Exposing five-minute timer is impractical because even a split second interval will restart and you have to FTG level 2 fast to expose that timer. Even then, he can just under the ground or use hiding in a mole jutsu to restart the time, if at all he needs it.

Raikage is no problem because of CQC argument. Acid mist can't be used because it will also hurt the kages. Obito has already teleported out of particle style when he teleported out Sasuke from it. So, Jinton isn't hitting either. Gaara's sand is also a non factor because of Kamui. He can try exposing five-minute limit, but Obito also has Uchiha Flame formation, to seperate the other kages and take them out at one time.

And do we need to consider Tsunade, I mean really?

Notice that I haven't even used any Rinnegan Obito's feats or the rinnegan's powers. I'm claiming with the above arguments that Orange Mask Obito beats Five Kages.

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#78 Edited by Sup3rn0va (478 posts) - - Show Bio

Obito loses pretty badly.

He's not sucking anyone into the Kamui dimension considering he's facing 5 people and the second he materializes to suck one of them in he gets smacked by anyone not named Mei.

I'd argue lightened Ay > Base Minato in speed, so Ay definitely isn't getting sucked in.

Assuming the Kage are replacing Guy, Naruto, Kakashi etc during their fight against Obito, he isn't going to use any Rinnegan hax for the same reasons, namely he's already tired from controlling the Jinchuriki and because Tsunade and Katsuyu have knowledge on all the abilities of the Rinnegan

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#79 Posted by Tony_Shark (2132 posts) - - Show Bio

@artoriasabysswalker: Obito is quite strong.

Even without his kamui, he had enough to strength to deal with Naruto in KCM, reflexes that are superior to Ay and Gai, knowledge of most techniques and hidden jutsu, genjutsu strong enough to hypnotize Kurama when he was only 15 years old, a wood style that fodderized an Anbu Black OPs from the Blood Mist, Gedo Statue Summon, and enough chakra control easily use 5 Bijuu at the same time, and if manages to stab you with a black rod then you are pretty much unable to move properly.

More on that:

- He states that he could not use the Rinnengan abilities because Naruto and the leaf already knew how to defend against them. Which is a ridiculous statement to depower him. Madara was using those abilities against the Five Kage and still clowning them. So Obito could still use absorption of chakra and all the other OP abilities.

- He has regen through hashiramas cells. Which made Tsunade tremble when she realized this.

- He can use Rinnengan as a one-hit kill genjutsu. He tells Kabuto to extract info from the unconscious Yamato after they kidnapped him and says that he'd do it himself but his Rinnengan would kill Yamato after the genjutsu. And they needed him alive.

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#80 Posted by ArtoriasAbyssWalker (653 posts) - - Show Bio

@tony_shark: Fair enough. Didn't know that about the Rinnegan. I'll keep that in mind

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#81 Posted by Dadpool (492 posts) - - Show Bio

Obito kills them all.

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#82 Posted by MyGod000 (716 posts) - - Show Bio

@artoriasabysswalker: Obito is quite strong.

Even without his kamui, he had enough to strength to deal with Naruto in KCM, reflexes that are superior to Ay and Gai, knowledge of most techniques and hidden jutsu, genjutsu strong enough to hypnotize Kurama when he was only 15 years old, a wood style that fodderized an Anbu Black OPs from the Blood Mist, Gedo Statue Summon, and enough chakra control easily use 5 Bijuu at the same time, and if manages to stab you with a black rod then you are pretty much unable to move properly.

More on that:

- He states that he could not use the Rinnengan abilities because Naruto and the leaf already knew how to defend against them. Which is a ridiculous statement to depower him. Madara was using those abilities against the Five Kage and still clowning them. So Obito could still use absorption of chakra and all the other OP abilities.

- He has regen through hashiramas cells. Which made Tsunade tremble when she realized this.

- He can use Rinnengan as a one-hit kill genjutsu. He tells Kabuto to extract info from the unconscious Yamato after they kidnapped him and says that he'd do it himself but his Rinnengan would kill Yamato after the genjutsu. And they needed him alive.

also, don't forget he was able to Hypnotize a perfect JJ in Yagura when Bee stated Perfect JJ can't be hypnotized, and he did this for years running the hidden mist from behind the scenes.