@arkhamasylum3
I'll move our discussion on the other page here on this one. It is more fitting.
Mace was actually originally stated to be a 9 iirc but then Gillard clarified he's an 8 bordering on a 9. I always took this to be a reference to Mace's amp (not everyone agrees that Mace was amped but it's not a discussion I particularly care to get into right now).
Yeah but regardless there are around 20 quotes stating he is on par with Yoda so it should be evident that he is on that level even when he is an 8 if he indeed is amped.
Tbh, there is no basis for him being amped by that stage as his emotional state was clearly stated to revert to what it originally was before Anakin's revelation, but yeah, there is no need for that discussion here.
You don't take it to mean anything. Mace being 8 bordering on 9 means exactly that, he is an 8 bordering on 9. He fits into that spectrum, not that he became 9 by some amp
That advantage works both ways. Granted it probably favours Kenobi more given his fighting style but it's not as if it's a huge factor given Anakin also does somewhat benefit from it.
He is utterly consumed by rage and hatred. There is obviously no doubt that he won't benefit much from it.
Yeah sure but I could also bring up the fact file quote which says Grievous was also hindered against Kenobi in which case this comparison is rendered faulty. Regardless iirc Grievous overloaded Obi Wan's defence (been a while since I read the novel).
The environment quote is Disney canon not to mention it makes no sense.
The part about Mace crushing his armor is retconned by LoE since that exchange between Mace and Grevious never took place
Care to tag me for the blog? Also regardless you are aware no match is not synonymous with a stomp The word "match" means "a person or thing that is equal to another in quality or strength" so any source which says Grievous was "no match" for Obi Wan would simply say he's not his equal which is true enough given he lost but it doesn't tell us anything about the disparity between the two.
Most dictionaries define "no match" to be "not able to compete", or "be easily defeated by", or "be powerless in comparison to a certain thing" so obviously it was a stomp.
"Match" does not mean equal, it means around your general level. No match means you are no match for your opponent, and even colloquially it is used to refer to a big disparity between two things. It means you are not only not a match, you are not able to compete or are significantly inferior to your opponent. You never refer to a good fight by one person being no match for the other person, do you? Two people being a match does not mean they are perfect equals just that either of them can compete with the other.
"Ultimately no match" might mean a different thing though.
Obi Wan was literally cutting off his hands in single sequences and smiling in the battle. He likely wasn't giving it his all when his defenses were being overloaded.
Source for Enraged TPM Kenobi being a 7?
Gillard said that Obi Wan moved up one level from episode one to episode three. So obviously enraged TPM Kenobi is a seven, given even normal TPM Kenobi is a seven.
1. Dooku actually recovered his reserves:
No he force augmented himself. That is why "the weight of his years dropped away".
His actual force reserves were being depleted obviously. He was getting tired even when Obi Wan and Anakin were toying with him, meaning by the time we come to this battle, a huge chunk of his force reserves would be depleted.
There are sources that even state that he had expended all of his energy by the time he was done with Kenobi leaving him helpless before Skywalker but I tend not to put much stock to it. Still, the point that his force reserves were mostly depleted should come across pretty firmly. And him force augmenting himself is not him restoring his reserves
2. Dooku being a "joke" in comparison to Anakin doesn't exactly paint a picture of The Count being able to compete with Anakin like Kenobi did on Mustafar. And even if we did discount the above statement I could easily bring up the previous part of the fight where Anakin beat all of Dooku's reserves out of him in like 20 seconds and this was a version of Anakin who hadn't hit peak (note that in that part of the fight Dooku was merely tired not exhausted iirc).
No, but aside from Kenobi feeling relaxed, not threatened by Dooku at all, and literally countering whatever strikes he sent at him effortlessly, there is not much basis for comparison between Obi Wan and Dooku at all. Since it is now established that Dooku force choking him was a cheapshot( Dooku moving faster is obvious lol, you can move your hand obviously far faster than you can move on feet), nothing effectively ties Kenobi to being inferior to Dooku especially when you consider that he was out to capture Dooku, not kill him. Even more when you consider that he grew and became more powerful throughout ROTS
Remember the sequence that stated that Obi Wan felt the full power of the light shortly after the Dooku fight?
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/azronger/blog/palpatines-cosmic-accomplishments/130331/#comments-block-1861957
Greysentinel's comment
Now obviously that must have been a considerable increase since the dark side had become much stronger than it had been in the start of the war and even then the Jedi were noticeably hindered( Yoda and Plagueis both confirm that even the Living Force was impacted, not just the Unifying Force).
Obi Wan on Utapau is even more powerful than that, and Obi Wan on Mustafar is even more powerful than Obi Wan on Utapau
Combine that with a considerable advantage Obi Wan has over him in terms of being familiar with his style, Obi Wan's style itself being perfectly suited to facing aggressive styles, much more than Dooku and his entire mode of fighting being to draw out fights, it is not impossible to see him lasting against a level 9 under those conditions for that much time.
Let's see what supplements that notion, oh yeah, one fight with General Grevious in which he demonstrably did better than someone regarded as a peer and equal to Yoda did.
Agreed, Obi Wan is not on the level of Yoda or Sidious. But, I view Mace as being on or near their general level, and lagging behind by an appreciable but not vast margin when it comes to the force. Obi Wan being considerably inferior to Mace, but again, not by any vast margin. Give him considerable edges in familiarity, and I don't see why he can't replicate what he did against Vader against Mace too. That for all intents and purposes is close enough to a 9. You only need to be slightly better than Mace to be a 9. So, you see, for Vader, I still don't see what the big fuss is about.
Yes, Anakin hadn't hit peak yet, but he was still a level 8. Obi Wan outright stated that MF Vader was more powerful than this version of Anakin, and you agreed with it. So, by the time the level 9 version of Anakin comes around, Dooku's force reserves are hugely depleted and yet he still lasts for 15-20 seconds so it stands to reason that there isn't an astronomical difference between the level 8 Anakin and the level 9 Anakin
That supplements his battle with Yoda in which he lasts for 40 seconds and isn't defeated.
OT-KF Vader and Zonakin win easily, MF Vader wins decisively, and Jedi Anakin wins in a great fight.
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