Obi Wan (AOTC) vs Kit Fisto (TCW)

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Jueix

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#1  Edited By Jueix
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Canon fight.

Fight takes place on the Death Star.

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The_Institution

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Kit Fisto.

I don't think AOTC Kenobi has much feats in canon to bring up, most of his feats are Clone Wars era.

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El_mago

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#4  Edited By El_mago

Since this is not Rots kenobi

fisto handles him quite easy his feat against Grievous during TCW already clarifies a distant gap between the characters

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The_Buddha_

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Kit stomps, lmao. He easily outmatches Grievous, who stalemates a far stronger Kenobi during S3.

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AlexTheBoss

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#6  Edited By AlexTheBoss  Online

Fisto wins mid-high difficulty.

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AlexTheBoss

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#7 AlexTheBoss  Online

@the_buddha_: He didn't easily outmatch Grievous. He had the advantage of being in the mist and had trouble even when he had two lightsabers and Grievous had three.

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deactivated-5ea0874809400

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Didn’t Fisto already beat him?

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The_Buddha_

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#9  Edited By The_Buddha_
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EmmaFrostXmen

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Fisto mid difficulty

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AlexTheBoss

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#11 AlexTheBoss  Online
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The_Buddha_

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firelordiroh

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#13  Edited By firelordiroh
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Baldur_Odinson

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I'm with the consensus, Kit Fisto for the fisting win.

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Necromancer76

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Kit.

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Lord_Tenebrous

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Hmm... tough choice.

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Lord_Tenebrous

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@alextheboss:

He had the advantage of being in the mist

When did Kit ever successfully use the mist to gain any sort of edge over Grievous at any point in the duel?

and had trouble even when he had two lightsabers and Grievous had three

A) Kit tagging Grievous in 8 seconds, being unconcerned enough to do nothing but grin while Grievous is on the ground and completely vulnerable, letting him recover and attack, proceeding to 110% no-sell his attack then visibly overwhelm Grievous within 3 seconds of assuming the offensive, does not paint a picture of Kit experiencing trouble.

B) Kit using 2 blades isn't an advantage, unless he is more proficient with 2 blades.

C) If you think using 2 is an advantage, Grievous still has 3 which means he has the advantage.

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Void_Reborn

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@lord_tenebrous:

Hmm... tough choice.

Plus, this is AOTC Obi-Wan. If this version of Obi-Wan fought Grievous he would've flat out died considering how he faired in TCW.

You must be having fun spamming those clips of Obi-Wan getting outfought.

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Void_Reborn

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Even if Grievous was having a disadvantage and Kit was having an advantage, Kit still outfought him as you can see by their duel. Even in TCW Obi-Wan has never succeeded against Grievous as Fisto did and this is a more powerful, experienced by war in the frontlines, Obi-Wan compared to AOTC Kenobi.

Fisto stomps.

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AlexTheBoss

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#20  Edited By AlexTheBoss  Online

@lord_tenebrous:

When did Kit ever successfully use the mist to gain any sort of edge over Grievous at any point in the duel?

He hid in the mist once to try a surprise attack, and even if he isn't hiding, the mist would still be a low visible area.

A) Kit tagging Grievous in 8 seconds, being unconcerned enough to do nothing but grin while Grievous is on the ground and completely vulnerable, letting him recover and attack, proceeding to 110% no-sell his attack then visibly overwhelm Grievous within 3 seconds of assuming the offensive, does not paint a picture of Kit experiencing trouble.

Fisto's showing against Grievous was really good, but this was early CW Grievous, and he has never fought a jedi with two sabers before at that point in canon as far as I'm aware.

Did you forget when Fisto needed help from another jedi knight and multiple clones to take the advantage over him?

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Fisto is arguably better than Grivous, but it isn't by much. If he was that much better, he would have casually beat him there and wouldn't have let his clones and former padawan be in danger. He couldn't even stop Grievous from running away with all that help and was knocked down by a Grievous with no legs and without a lightsaber.

B) Kit using 2 blades isn't an advantage, unless he is more proficient with 2 blades.

If it wasn't an advantage he wouldn't have used it. Normally a second blade might not help him much, but when fighting a guy with multiple arms, it can help.

C) If you think using 2 is an advantage, Grievous still has 3 which means he has the advantage.

Having more lightsabers doesn't automatically mean a character has the advantage, but it does help depending on the scenario. For example, a Grievous with 4 lightsabers would obviously have and advantage vs a Grievous with 3 lightsabers.

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Lord_Tenebrous

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@alextheboss:

He hid in the mist once to try a surprise attack,

Which Grievous anticipated and blocked, then they bladelocked for a whopping 10 seconds while exchanging dialogue, and Grievous pushes Kit away. No advantage taken.

and even if he isn't hiding, the mist would still be a low visible area

The air was perfectly clear where they fought, you're speculating without basis.

Fisto's showing against Grievous was really good, but this was early CW Grievous,

Irrelevent, it's also early CW Fisto.

and he has never fought a jedi with two sabers before at that point in canon as far as I'm aware.

Even more irrelevent.

Did you forget when Fisto needed help from another jedi knight and multiple clones to take the advantage over him?

Fisto was trying to capture him, and it was Grievous who ended up bisected. This doesn't change the fact that when it came down to a 1v1, it was Fisto who proved the superior fighter.

Fisto is arguably better than Grivous, but it isn't by much.

In their respective primes, yes.

If he was that much better, he would have casually beat him there and wouldn't have let his clones and former padawan be in danger.

If he was that much better, he would have landed something decisive like a bisection... oh wait.

Fisto was trying to subdue Grievous like a wild animal. He had a team with him, and he worked with them. When he didn't have a team, he did it by himself. Simple as that.

None of this changes the fact that Kit outfought him in their 1v1.

He couldn't even stop Grievous from running away with all that help

Because he sat around doing nothing when the plot demanded it, and later just wasn't fast enough when chasing Grievous through the halls of his own labyrinthine lair. None of this changes the fact that Kit outfought him in their 1v1.

and was knocked down by a Grievous with no legs and without a lightsaber.

Grievous held a clone in in between Kit and himself, then smacked Kit with the clone*

None of this changes the fact that Kit outfought him in their 1v1.

If it wasn't an advantage he wouldn't have used it.

No, because it could just be neutral, or poetic justice, using the weapon of Grievous' victim to defeat him. Fact of the matter is, using 2 blades isn't an automatic advantage, unless you are more skilled using 2 blades as opposed to 1. The fact that Kit only carries 1 blade tells us otherwise.

Normally a second blade might not help him much, but when fighting a guy with multiple arms, it can help.

In other words, it evens out a disadvantage, it does not give him an advantage.

For example, a Grievous with 4 lightsabers would obviously have and advantage vs a Grievous with 3 lightsabers.

Wrong. Grievous himself, in a source that qualifies as immovable canon, firmly stated that he is just as proficient with 3.

Setting that aside, where's your evidence that Grievous is less skilled with 3?

Kit decisively outfought Grievous in this encounter, and was not threatened by him. By the end of the war, I think they're much closer, but it doesn't change what happened here.

Kit comfortably outfought Grievous, who trounced a stronger version of Kenobi than the one Kit is facing here.

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Lord_Tenebrous

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#22  Edited By Lord_Tenebrous

@void_reborn said:

@lord_tenebrous:

Hmm... tough choice.

Plus, this is AOTC Obi-Wan. If this version of Obi-Wan fought Grievous he would've flat out died considering how he faired in TCW.

You must be having fun spamming those clips of Obi-Wan getting outfought.

I agree. And yes, it is rather enjoyable. I only recently discovered the Desktop Site setting -- I'd spent years on this site having to get across points through atrocious self-formatting and links that substituted for gifs & photos. Progress is sweet.

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Richard96

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Fisto is better than AOTC Kenobi already as of AOTC.

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Void_Reborn

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@lord_tenebrous:

In their respective primes, yes

What exactly is Fisto's prime and what feat does he have that shows it?

Him lasting slightly longer against Palpatine compared to the other Council members.

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Redshift_Bacon

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Its already been said. Kit Fisto beats Kenobi until maybe the late CW

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YousufKhan1212

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#26  Edited By YousufKhan1212

AotC Kenobi gives him some initial difficulty, but eventually gets trashed.

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MyGod000

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#27  Edited By MyGod000

I would have to say Kit Fisto wins here.

I think Obi-wan would give him a great effort before going down. Now, if this was ROTS Obi-wan I give him the win but AOTC Obi-wan just doesn't have enough to say he could win this fight.

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Void_Reborn

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Its already been said. Kit Fisto beats Kenobi until maybe the late CW

Even that is not very clear. Late CW Kenobi was stomped by Grievous and earlier in TCW, Fisto outfought Grievous. Obviously every character would have improved since then but Fisto might still be > this Obi-Wan. Potentially even > ROTS Obi-Wan.

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AlexTheBoss

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#29 AlexTheBoss  Online

@lord_tenebrous:

and it was Grievous who ended up bisected.

Because he was held down by multiple people.

Setting that aside, where's your evidence that Grievous is less skilled with 3?

I didn't say he was less skilled with three. It's just that having an extra saber is another thing to attack with, so if he has the same skill with three and four sabers, having four is better as it gives him another weapon to attack with.

Plus the fight with Fisto seemed pretty even, and Fisto only took the clear advantage when he pushed Grievous down with the force. I could also argue he was extremely focused due to the death of his former padawan, similar to how Obi-wan got focused after Adi Galia's death and was able to fight Maul and Savage at the same time while using two lightsaber, which is a more impressive feat than Fisto fighting off Grievous.

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Redshift_Bacon

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@void_reborn: ROTS Obi Wan stalemated Vader. Fisto lost to Sidious in seconds. This same Vader is said to be approaching Sidious’s own power.

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Void_Reborn

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@redshift_bacon:

Obi-Wan was on the backfoot of most of that duel but you can call it a stalemate if you want. Obi-Wan is redirecting it to a location of his choosing anyway and trying to buy time.

Key word: 'Approaching'. Anakin is still not on Yoda or Sid's level.

But I do agree that Obi-Wan would not get totally blitzed like Fisto and the other Jedi did, albeit Fisto lasting a few seconds.

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MattyBoi

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#32  Edited By MattyBoi

Fisto wins.

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The_Buddha_

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@void_reborn: Actually, Vader is confirmed a superior of Yoda/Sidious by then (on legends).

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Lord_Tenebrous

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@void_reborn:

What exactly is Fisto's prime and what feat does he have that shows it?

I'm of the opinion that all characters continue to grow until they become really old. Jedi are constantly training to improve themselves, and even Dooku didn't peak until his 80s.

Him lasting slightly longer against Palpatine compared to the other Council members.

That's more so because Palpatine targeted the other Council members first

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Lord_Tenebrous

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@void_reborn: ROTS Obi Wan stalemated Vader. Fisto lost to Sidious in seconds. This same Vader is said to be approaching Sidious’s own power.

Kenobi competing with Vader is just more evidence why he's nowhere near Sidious. Fact of the matter is, Vader & Kenobi are in the same tier as Fisto, as proven by their G-canon feats.

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Lord_Tenebrous

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#36  Edited By Lord_Tenebrous

@alextheboss:

I didn't say he was less skilled with three. It's just that having an extra saber is another thing to attack with, so if he has the same skill with three and four sabers, having four is better as it gives him another weapon to attack with.

This isn't anything worth mentioning, it's next to worthless in terms of how it influences the balance of a fight.

Plus the fight with Fisto seemed pretty even, and Fisto only took the clear advantage when he pushed Grievous down with the force

As soon as Grievous attacked Fisto, he lost a hand. That's not even. Then Fisto pushed him back, voluntarily surrendered ground by backflipping, stonewalled Grievous' attack, shifted from side to side and tagged him with the Force -- which is a legitimate breach of guard so long as it's performed mid-fight.

Fisto wasn't even threatened by Grievous. When the latter was downed and vulnerable, Kit merely grinned and allowed him to recover.

Fisto didn't just stonewall Grievous' following attack, he actually moved forward while defending, which is insane. Then he goes on the attack, and within 3 seconds Grievous is visibly being overwhelmed.

I could also argue he was extremely focused due to the death of his former padawan, similar to how Obi-wan got focused after Adi Galia's death and was able to fight Maul and Savage at the same time while using two lightsaber, which is a more impressive feat than Fisto fighting off Grievous.

That's baseless speculation.

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Co-Boss

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Probably Fisto, invisible hand Kenobi takes it with mustafar being a tier above, although Grevious scaling is weird because grevious is all over the place in how well he does, especially because he seems to be kenobis kryptonite. Like grevious lost to ventress in TCW and even by then Obi wan>Ventress. Yet kenobi never seems to be able to get the edge on grevious until ROTS. Grevious vs. kenobi almost feels like thematic at this point because kenobi has shown the capabilities to go against multiple blades from stronger opponents and come out looking fresh.

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Redshift_Bacon

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#38  Edited By Redshift_Bacon

@lord_tenebrous: Ahh yes, I guess thats why Kenobi decisively lost to Dooku multiple times but Anakin decisively won multiple times. Clearly, Dooku is also fodder that can be blitzed by Sidious.

You always on here downplaying Anakin so.

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Lord_Tenebrous

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@redshift_bacon:

Ahh yes, I guess thats why Kenobi decisively lost to Dooku multiple times

Yes, because Kenobi is vastly beneath Dooku, just like Kit.

but Anakin decisively won multiple times.

You mean when Anakin narrowly outfought an exhausted, mentally hindered, and massively holding-back Dooku, and earlier was losing badly to Dooku even with Kenobi for backup.

Clearly, Dooku is also fodder that can be blitzed by Sidious.

Nope, but Anakin, Kit, and Obi-Wan are.

You always on here downplaying Anakin so.

Needlessly antagonistic.

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Void_Reborn

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@void_reborn: Actually, Vader is confirmed a superior of Yoda/Sidious by then (on legends).

Even if he is, he certainly isn't using that 'superiority'. 10 times out of 10 if Obi-Wan fought Yoda or Palpatine he would get force fucked the moment the fight starts. Palpatine wouldn't even feel the need to use his lightsabers.

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Void_Reborn

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#41  Edited By Void_Reborn

@lord_tenebrous

That's more so because Palpatine targeted the other Council members first

That's understandable if you're going by the novelisation but the actual scene itself was so awkwardly done that nobody should've been blitzed at all. Everyone was given time to defend and as Palpatine was about to stab them they did nothing to defend themselves or block the hits. Mace Windu and Kit also did nothing until Palpatine started attacking them which is ridiculous.

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Void_Reborn

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@redshift_bacon:

Ahh yes, I guess thats why Kenobi decisively lost to Dooku multiple times but Anakin decisively won multiple times. Clearly, Dooku is also fodder that can be blitzed by Sidious

Stop with the ABC Logic. That's primitive. You're better than this!

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Beta-56

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#43  Edited By Beta-56

@lord_tenebrous

That's more so because Palpatine targeted the other Council members first

That's understandable if you're going by the novelisation but the actual scene itself was so awkwardly done that nobody should've been blitzed at all. Everyone was given time to defend and as Palpatine was about to stab them they did nothing to defend themselves or block the hits. Mace Windu and Kit also did nothing until Palpatine started attacking them which is ridiculous.

Agen Kolar was looking the other way when he got stabbed. I?m sorry but that is very stupid.

Loading Video...

I think George Lucas wanted to show how powerful and skilled Palpatine was but instead he just made the Jedis look bad

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Void_Reborn

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@beta-56:

Agen Kolar was looking the other way when he got stabbed. I?m sorry but that is very stupid.

LOL THAT MAKES IT EVEN WORSE.

Gosh George. There are other ways to make your antagonist seem powerful aside from making your 'COUNCIL MEMBERS' look like total idiots.

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Co-Boss

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#45  Edited By Co-Boss

@void_reborn: his clowning of maul and savage was done so much better and made him look even more menacing even though this strike squad was a harder fight. Lucas was a big idea man and failed at stuff like this

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Void_Reborn

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@co-boss: Yeah. It's also because Savage and Maul have much better character development than Kit, Sasee Tin, Agen Kolar or Mace in the movies. Watching that scene was like seeing Palpatine walk up and casually cut down the two big threats of Season 6 that we've been following throughout their alliance with Death Watch, fighting Jedi and against pirates and the hutts.

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The_Institution

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I think the issue is that Obi-Wan is trash offensively compared to most Jedi because of his specialization in defense.

So of course a lot of Jedi are going to appear better than him based on the fact that he sucks in attacking where as most Jedi Masters excel at it.

I think Obi-Wan is better suited for stalling or double teaming than 1v1ing.

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noah_ouellette

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Fisto. Though its directly AOTC kenobi nothing after so idk why people are showing feats for that.