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#1 Edited by Inside (799 posts) - - Show Bio

This Team:

Nikkos Tyris, Durge, Sora Bulq, DD Asajj Ventress, and General Grievous.

vs

Count Dooku and Darth Vader.

Nikkos Tyris RT: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/inside/blog/nikkos-tyris-respect-thread/128550/

Sora Bulq RT: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/sora-bulq-respect-thread-1653903/

Durge RT: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/durge-respect-thread-1557965/

Asajj Ventress RT: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/asajj-ventress-respect-thread-1604363/

General Grievous RT: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/general-grievous-respect-thread-1620576/

Count Dooku RT 1 & 2: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/shootingnova/blog/count-dookudarth-tyranus-respect-thread-part-1/95276/ & https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/shootingnova/blog/count-dookudarth-tyranus-respect-thread-part-2/130930/

Darth Vader RT 1, 2, & 3: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/darth-vader-respect-thread-part-1-1835848/ & https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/darth-vader-respect-thread-part-2-1643437/ & https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/darth-vader-respect-thread-part-3-1790920/

Who wins?

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#4 Posted by i_like_swords (26192 posts) - - Show Bio

Team has a great shot here. Ventress, Bulq and Grievous alone would do pretty good, but add in Durge and then Tyris who seems pretty competent and it looks a bit much.

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#5 Posted by Inside (799 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: Tyris is a pretty huge hitter, Ventress and Durge are the weak links here, imo.

With Durge straggling behind as the least competent.

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#6 Posted by i_like_swords (26192 posts) - - Show Bio

@inside: Durge has some pretty high showings. He's kind of all over the place. But in a team fight like this, he will be very useful seeing as it takes so much to put him down and Vader/Dooku won't be able to give destroying him their undivided attention.

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#7 Edited by Killerwasp (17296 posts) - - Show Bio

Durge is MVP while GG supports him tbh without the force this along with Bulq would seal the deal

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#8 Posted by echostarlord117 (5609 posts) - - Show Bio

This seems like overkill. Durge and Grievous alone would be able to give Vader and Dooku a run for their money. The team would undoubtedly win after suffering casualties.

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#9 Posted by In-sidiousvader (2427 posts) - - Show Bio

Vader solo forcerepulses them all to death

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#10 Posted by decaf_wizard (16837 posts) - - Show Bio

This seems like overkill. Durge and Grievous alone would be able to give Vader and Dooku a run for their money. The team would undoubtedly win after suffering casualties.

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#11 Posted by ArkhamAsylum3 (3445 posts) - - Show Bio

>Grievous would give Dooku a run for his money despite being stomped in like every sparring session they've had.

OT-Duo takes.

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#12 Posted by MYGOD101 (318 posts) - - Show Bio

Vader Solo. There isn't anything they can do to Vader that he couldn't counter.

in Canon a better duelist than Sidious, can do Force Lightning.

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#13 Posted by MYGOD101 (318 posts) - - Show Bio

@echostarlord117 said:

This seems like overkill. Durge and Grievous alone would be able to give Vader and Dooku a run for their money. The team would undoubtedly win after suffering casualties.

What are they going to do against Vader when he does Force lightning? or force choke?

Grievous couldn't even beat Count Dooku in any of the sparring matches they had not even close. Vader is much more powerful than Dooku canon better than Sidious in light saber duelist.

Asajj Ventress couldn't even beat a blind Dooku when she had the advantage in sight with 4-5 other Assassins helping her

Vader alone can solo. adding Count Dooku with Vader just makes this a bigger stomp.

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#14 Posted by decaf_wizard (16837 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod101 said:
@decaf_wizard said:
@echostarlord117 said:

This seems like overkill. Durge and Grievous alone would be able to give Vader and Dooku a run for their money. The team would undoubtedly win after suffering casualties.

What are they going to do against Vader when he does Force lightning? or force choke?

Grievous couldn't even beat Count Dooku in any of the sparring matches they had not even close. Vader is much more powerful than Dooku canon better than Sidious in light saber duelist.

Asajj Ventress couldn't even beat a blind Dooku when she had the advantage in sight with 4-5 other Assassins helping her

Vader alone can solo. adding Count Dooku with Vader just makes this a bigger stomp.

Vader isn't capable of using force lightning, and Greivous wouldn't allow Vader to abuse the force against him as he is trained against stopping people from using force freely against him

Greivous could press Dooku. And Vader isn't much better than Dooku at all by like....any metric

Asajj is fodder to either Greivous or Dooku. Claiming Vader can solo this is pure wank. Canon Vader had issues with a Grievous ripoff with none of his skill. EU Vader had issues with a knockoff Maul

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#15 Posted by echostarlord117 (5609 posts) - - Show Bio

What are they going to do against Vader when he does Force lightning? or force choke?

Oh, shoot, I forgot about Vader's lightning. Damn, he's totally going to stomp this! Whose lightning do you think is more powerful, Palpatine's or Vader's?

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#16 Edited by RealistBigotry (118 posts) - - Show Bio

Tyranus crushes them all at the same time like coke cans. Grievous is a better duelist than everyone here barring the Count though.

The Durge hype is hilarious, he gets popped by Dooku or BFR'd by Vader, he's a non-factor.

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#17 Posted by RealistBigotry (118 posts) - - Show Bio
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#18 Edited by MYGOD101 (318 posts) - - Show Bio

@echostarlord117:

Palpatine has the strongest force lightning in all seriousness, but Vader has a pretty strong force lightning I'll say it stronger than Dooku's force lightning by a good margin. .

@decaf_wizard said:
@mygod101 said:
@decaf_wizard said:
@echostarlord117 said:

This seems like overkill. Durge and Grievous alone would be able to give Vader and Dooku a run for their money. The team would undoubtedly win after suffering casualties.

What are they going to do against Vader when he does Force lightning? or force choke?

Grievous couldn't even beat Count Dooku in any of the sparring matches they had not even close. Vader is much more powerful than Dooku canon better than Sidious in light saber duelist.

Asajj Ventress couldn't even beat a blind Dooku when she had the advantage in sight with 4-5 other Assassins helping her

Vader alone can solo. adding Count Dooku with Vader just makes this a bigger stomp.

Vader isn't capable of using force lightning, and Greivous wouldn't allow Vader to abuse the force against him as he is trained against stopping people from using force freely against him

Greivous could press Dooku. And Vader isn't much better than Dooku at all by like....any metric

Asajj is fodder to either Greivous or Dooku. Claiming Vader can solo this is pure wank. Canon Vader had issues with a Grievous ripoff with none of his skill. EU Vader had issues with a knockoff Maul

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Vader force lightning is one of the most dangerous and it different then how normal Sith lords do their. this is canon so there is no disputing it either. Vader canonically is better Light Saber duelist than Palpatine this was stated.

Vader pretty much solo and stomps. I read that vader comic and he didn't have any issues at all your interpretation is piss poor if you think that. Vader literally had a two panel fight if even that and then just force pushed the guy and killed him. Vader had a harder fight with the Inquisitor and we know that they are Vader's bitches in duels.

Like I said above Vader stomps and solos that whole team, Dooku makes it almost a rape.

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#20 Edited by Redshift_Bacon (228 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod101 said:

Vader force lightning is one of the most dangerous and it different then how normal Sith lords do their. this is canon so there is no disputing it either. Vader canonically is better Light Saber duelist than Palpatine this was stated.

Vader pretty much can solo

This but I think Team would actually stand a chance if it was just Vader. With Dooku's lightsaber skills I think Duo takes this 9-9.5/10 times.

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#21 Edited by MYGOD101 (318 posts) - - Show Bio

@redshift_bacon said:
@mygod101 said:

Vader force lightning is one of the most dangerous and it different then how normal Sith lords do their. this is canon so there is no disputing it either. Vader canonically is better Light Saber duelist than Palpatine this was stated.

Vader pretty much can solo

This but I think Team would actually stand a chance if it was just Vader. With Dooku's lightsaber skills I think Duo takes this 9-9.5/10 times.

I had edited that a bit, I actually think Vader handily solos. stomps the team if he is enraged, but Dooku makes this a rape.

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#22 Edited by In-sidiousvader (2427 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod101: you have 180 posts so I will go easy on you. First of all this battleboard is mainly discussing legends characters unless specified canon. Secondly the "canon" scans you posted are actually legends, from the comic darth vader and the ghost prison. My guess based on everything you have said thus far is you have been watching too much stupendous wave and star wars theory. There are specific videos on those channels entitled "why Vader is the greatest duelist." "Or why Vader has the most powerful force lightning." These things are clickbait and misleading, they are not accepted here in CV where we look at things objectively.

I want to stress that my criticism is not meant to be an attack or an embarrassment. I simply want to adress the importance of your opinions and how they are false, and the sources you seem to use are questionable. I myself am a huge Vader fan I love him to death, I just do not want you to spread falsehoods.

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#23 Posted by In-sidiousvader (2427 posts) - - Show Bio

@decaf_wizard: just curious why? Vader can Ragdoll almost everyone here at the same time it's not Sabers only I don't get why he can't solo.

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#24 Posted by MYGOD101 (318 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod101: you have 180 posts so I will go easy on you. First of all this battleboard is mainly discussing legends characters unless specified canon. Secondly the "canon" scans you posted are actually legends, from the comic darth vader and the ghost prison. My guess based on everything you have said thus far is you have been watching too much stupendous wave and star wars theory. There are specific videos on those channels entitled "why Vader is the greatest duelist." "Or why Vader has the most powerful force lightning." These things are clickbait and misleading, they are not accepted here in CV where we look at things objectively.

I want to stress that my criticism is not meant to be an attack or an embarrassment. I simply want to adress the importance of your opinions and how they are false, and the sources you seem to use are questionable. I myself am a huge Vader fan I love him to death, I just do not want you to spread falsehoods.

it was actually from the new Vader comics. where Vader was looking for the prison planet the Jedi had be leaving villains that they captured during the war.

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#25 Posted by In-sidiousvader (2427 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod101: again, the comic you are referring to is called Darth Vader and the Ghost Prison look it up I encourage you, it falls under the Legends Banner of continuity.

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#26 Posted by Inside (799 posts) - - Show Bio

Nikkos Tyris was stomping Nejaa Halcyon who had stalemated AoTC Anakin.

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#27 Posted by Dawn_of_Ages (2421 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod101 said:

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That's just how the comic depicts Vader's TK.

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Its completely different from how it depicts actual Force Lightning:

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@mygod101 said:

Vader force lightning is one of the most dangerous and it different then how normal Sith lords do their. this is canon so there is no disputing it either. Vader canonically is better Light Saber duelist than Palpatine this was stated.

That's from Darth Vader and the Ghost Prison, which isn't from the new Vader series, it's from Legends.

Not to mention that even in Legends, its outright stated that Vader can't use Force Lightning.

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#28 Edited by echostarlord117 (5609 posts) - - Show Bio
@realistbigotry said:

@decaf_wizard: Greivous could press Dooku.

Based on what?

Grievous had been a delight to train, as well. No need to coax him to release his anger and rage, as Dooku had been forced to do during the training of his so-called Dark Jedi disciples. The Geonosians had arranged for Grievous to be nothing but anger and rage. And as to the general’s combat skills, few, if any, Jedi would be capable of defeating him. There had been moments during the extensive combat sessions when even Dooku had been hard-pressed to outduel the cyborg.

But then, Dooku had kept some secrets to himself.

Just in case.

Labyrinth of Evil

There was also that scene in the Tartakovsky Clone Wars miniseries where Grievous was doing quite well during a training session with Dooku. Aside from that, though, Grievous has legitimately matched Mace Windu in skill, and everyone knows that Windu is more than a match for Dooku.

@mygod101 said:

@echostarlord117:

Palpatine has the strongest force lightning in all seriousness, but Vader has a pretty strong force lightning I'll say it stronger than Dooku's force lightning by a good margin.

Lol I was messing with you. Vader does not have access to Force lightning. This has been made explicitly clear multiple times in both canon and Legends.

The closest thing he ever had to Force lightning is an ability called kinetite, but I'll spare you the details. Know that it won't play a role in this battle.

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#29 Posted by Richard96 (5648 posts) - - Show Bio

@echostarlord117:

“There was also that scene in the Tartakovsky Clone Wars miniseries where Grievous was doing quite well during a training session with Dooku.”

In fact, Dooku casually disarmed Grievous and nonchalantly mocked him in that scene.

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#30 Posted by decaf_wizard (16837 posts) - - Show Bio

@echostarlord117:

“There was also that scene in the Tartakovsky Clone Wars miniseries where Grievous was doing quite well during a training session with Dooku.”

In fact, Dooku casually disarmed Grievous and nonchalantly mocked him in that scene.

Greivous received upgrades through the entirety of the clone wars series, and Dooku later on in the clone wars admitted Greivous could press him

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#31 Posted by echostarlord117 (5609 posts) - - Show Bio

@echostarlord117:

“There was also that scene in the Tartakovsky Clone Wars miniseries where Grievous was doing quite well during a training session with Dooku.”

In fact, Dooku casually disarmed Grievous

Grievous still did well, all things considered. He was pushing Dooku back and even received praise from him during the fight. He was disarmed because he loosened his grip due to Dooku's instruction. He was still his student after all.

You also need to understand that this was a training session. Neither Dooku nor Grievous were going all out. I'm sure they were practicing specific things Dooku thought Grievous needed to work on. That's how all practice sessions work. Grievous is not someone Dooku would've wanted to fight to the death.

and nonchalantly mocked him in that scene.

Dooku also mocked Anakin. Dooku mocks everyone. That doesn't mean anything.

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#32 Posted by decaf_wizard (16837 posts) - - Show Bio

@decaf_wizard: just curious why? Vader can Ragdoll almost everyone here at the same time it's not Sabers only I don't get why he can't solo.

Because ragdolling will do exactly piss all to two of these combatants and I think ragdolling is slightly difficult when there are so many fast strong and skilled opponents bearing down on you at once

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#33 Posted by echostarlord117 (5609 posts) - - Show Bio

@decaf_wizard: just curious why? Vader can Ragdoll almost everyone here at the same time it's not Sabers only I don't get why he can't solo.

Ragdolling is the last thing Vader would do when being assaulted by five competent combatants. He pretty much only ever does this to assert his dominance, never to save his life. And, as decaf said, Grievous and Durge would be utterly unaffected by Vader ragdolling them.

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#34 Posted by In-sidiousvader (2427 posts) - - Show Bio

@in-sidiousvader said:

@decaf_wizard: just curious why? Vader can Ragdoll almost everyone here at the same time it's not Sabers only I don't get why he can't solo.

Ragdolling is the last thing Vader would do when being assaulted by five competent combatants. He pretty much only ever does this to assert his dominance, never to save his life. And, as decaf said, Grievous and Durge would be utterly unaffected by Vader ragdolling them.

@in-sidiousvader said:

@decaf_wizard: just curious why? Vader can Ragdoll almost everyone here at the same time it's not Sabers only I don't get why he can't solo.

Because ragdolling will do exactly piss all to two of these combatants and I think ragdolling is slightly difficult when there are so many fast strong and skilled opponents bearing down on you at once

To you both, I chose poorly he would ragdoll everyone and either instakill or severely injure most of them. and as a matter of fact GG would possibly be hurt by Vader's ragdoll, as show here...

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To insinuate that Vader's Tk is not as powerful as Mace Windu simply hurling a speeder is dismissive. Vader has the capacity to blast Grevious around and at the very least damage him based on this showing. The ROTS Novel specifically describes Obi-Wan as simply applying a quick burst of power and hopefully we can agree that Vader's TK is beyond ROTS Obi-wans or I will provide examples. Furthermore with Durge there is no answer. Given however that he can be incapacitated by mandolorians for 60 years by having his limbs pulled apart, Vader can presumably just rip him limb from limb. We know this may be likely as Vader has Anakin's memories and Anakins specifically came to the conclusion that Durge is not completely killable. In fact if we go by your logic than Durge can win against sidious, I assume Durge only need be incapacitated for this fight to be Vader's victory.

Even if you do disagree with my conclusions about GG's durability and Vader's ability to hurt him as shown in the CW microseries, GG can be brought to his knees with the closing of ones fist, simply crushing his guts. This is of course something IC for vader and thus a likely possibility. Also addressing your concerns on Vader not being a proactive force user...

Loading Video...

I hope that we can agree that no-one here is on Vader's level, and we can also agree that Vader dispatches opponents who do not challenge him as shown above.

so in summary I see no reason why this...

Note that this Vader is vastly pre prime, just coming into his suit and thus an incline of his potential by ROTJ
Note that this Vader is vastly pre prime, just coming into his suit and thus an incline of his potential by ROTJ

won't just overwhelm them all or at the very least oneshot a fair few of them, allowing Vader to deal with the stragglers individually.

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#35 Posted by Inside (799 posts) - - Show Bio

@in-sidiousvader: Because there are force users here who can put up a decent fight on their own? They are some rebels trying to use blasters to gun him down like morons, they are powerful and skilled force users.

In fact almost everyone Team 1 can put up a decent fight on their own.

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#36 Posted by In-sidiousvader (2427 posts) - - Show Bio

@inside said:

@in-sidiousvader: Because there are force users here who can put up a decent fight on their own? They are some rebels trying to use blasters to gun him down like morons, they are powerful and skilled force users.

In fact almost everyone Team 1 can put up a decent fight on their own.

I'm sorry, but by demonstrated feats, all of these guys are fodder to Vader. I fail to see how sora bulq is anything compared to Rahm Kota who is casually owned by Darth Vader.

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#37 Posted by JacenSolo77 (1243 posts) - - Show Bio

@decaf_wizard: You fail to see what that implies. "Moments" implies the rest of the time Dooku beat him easily.

@echostarlord117: Mace was actually implied to be below Dooku in YDR just as an aside and the duel between GB and Mace was incredibly short.

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#38 Edited by noah_ouellette (3496 posts) - - Show Bio

@decaf_wizard: I WOuld agree except Kenobi hit Grevious with a hefty force push. Vader is superior in force power. Most are kenobis force power is weak. Vader can throw Grevious around.

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#39 Posted by noah_ouellette (3496 posts) - - Show Bio

@in-sidiousvader: Sora is=Kota if not more powerful. Kota’s showings aren’t strong. Sora’s are better. But I agree nonetheless.

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#40 Posted by Kilius (1570 posts) - - Show Bio

It's funny how all of Vader's best feats come from 19-18 BBY, yet come ANH-ESB he struggles with post-prime Kenobi and rookie Luke. If Vader improved massively within the 19 years it sure as hell didn't show.

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#41 Posted by MYGOD101 (318 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod101: again, the comic you are referring to is called Darth Vader and the Ghost Prison look it up I encourage you, it falls under the Legends Banner of continuity.

yeah, I know the name of it. honestly, it doesn't change anything on how the battles goes, because....A) Vader has irrefutable better feats than Mace Windu, who is more powerful than Dooku. B) in canon stated to be a better light saber duelist than Sidious.

Vader Still pretty much solos, Count Dooku makes this a Rape.

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#42 Posted by In-sidiousvader (2427 posts) - - Show Bio

@kilius said:

It's funny how all of Vader's best feats come from 19-18 BBY, yet come ANH-ESB he struggles with post-prime Kenobi and rookie Luke. If Vader improved massively within the 19 years it sure as hell didn't show.

lol, thats mainly because the sources depicted during his prime were done before Star wars was fully flushed out. It was only around the time of the ROTS novel (2005) that feats and things became more consistent. Limited technology and PIS limits Vader's film appearances

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#43 Posted by decaf_wizard (16837 posts) - - Show Bio

@decaf_wizard: You fail to see what that implies. "Moments" implies the rest of the time Dooku beat him easily.

No, moments imply that Greivous only gave him a TRUE fight some times. That doesn't mean he stomped him every time, thats a horrid flaw in logic

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#44 Posted by MYGOD101 (318 posts) - - Show Bio

@kilius said:

It's funny how all of Vader's best feats come from 19-18 BBY, yet come ANH-ESB he struggles with post-prime Kenobi and rookie Luke. If Vader improved massively within the 19 years it sure as hell didn't show.

lol, thats mainly because the sources depicted during his prime were done before Star wars was fully flushed out. It was only around the time of the ROTS novel (2005) that feats and things became more consistent. Limited technology and PIS limits Vader's film appearances

^This is more reasonable and makes more sense than just saying "Well, Vader couldn't defeat Post-prime Kenobi, and rookie Luke" If they were to do a remake of the ANH-ESB movies people would change their tone about Vader. ANH-ESB are like 40 years old films maybe more, it unfair to compare them to star wars now because if you do even someone like Kylo Ren would be able to beat Vader, we all know that isn't true.

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#45 Edited by Kilius (1570 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod101 said:
@in-sidiousvader said:
@kilius said:

It's funny how all of Vader's best feats come from 19-18 BBY, yet come ANH-ESB he struggles with post-prime Kenobi and rookie Luke. If Vader improved massively within the 19 years it sure as hell didn't show.

lol, thats mainly because the sources depicted during his prime were done before Star wars was fully flushed out. It was only around the time of the ROTS novel (2005) that feats and things became more consistent. Limited technology and PIS limits Vader's film appearances

^This is more reasonable and makes more sense than just saying "Well, Vader couldn't defeat Post-prime Kenobi, and rookie Luke" If they were to do a remake of the ANH-ESB movies people would change their tone about Vader. ANH-ESB are like 40 years old films maybe more, it unfair to compare them to star wars now because if you do even someone like Kylo Ren would be able to beat Vader, we all know that isn't true.

I agree with ISV. It's a difference in the intents of the character. Pre-2005 Vader was a walking wound and a shadow of his former self along with Kenobi. Post-2005 the writers decided out of the blue, suit Vader was his combative prime for some reason and had him in the first year of his rehabilitation performing feats that are at least comparable to the other Sith Apprentices and his pre-suit self. Badass yeah, doesn't really mesh with the OT but whatever. Guess we can scale TPM Maul to ANH Vader, even though his more powerful TCW incarnation was stalemated by TCW Kenobi who is less powerful than Anakin, who is apparently less powerful than ANH Vader now. Make sense much?

But Vader's OT showings had nothing to do with "limited technology"(I'm mean it's choreography people. How much technology is involved in two people swinging sticks at each other?) It's intent. Vader and Kenobi were both old and past their combative prime, while Luke was a hastily trained and inexperienced acolyte.

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#46 Posted by JacenSolo77 (1243 posts) - - Show Bio

@decaf_wizard: No, it implies he wasn't pressed outside of those moments, as in he beat him casually a comfortably and no it's not a bad argument lmfao.

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#47 Edited by Kilius (1570 posts) - - Show Bio

OT Assuming Vader's high end showings in both Canon and Legends, the duo should scrap the win. Though they might lose if the team prevents them from using their Force powers, as I don't think they can win with only sabers, especially given Durge's durability and high end showings.

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#48 Posted by decaf_wizard (16837 posts) - - Show Bio

@decaf_wizard: No, it implies he wasn't pressed outside of those moments, as in he beat him casually a comfortably and no it's not a bad argument lmfao.

Not being pressed doesn't mean you effortlessly stomp somebody. For example I doubt that Caedus could effortlessly stomp Kyle or Kyp, but he could beat them without being overly pressed as clearly shown

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#49 Edited by WatchmeCwalk (44 posts) - - Show Bio

Vader can use Force lightning

*Shows scans of Kinetite* *claims its the most deadly version*

Stupendous WAAAAAAAAAAVE!! Where are you at? Come get your mans

~ KeenCraft ~

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#50 Posted by CuckedCurry (845 posts) - - Show Bio

Grievous > Dooku

The rest > Vader