Sons of the Bat vs Fire Nation's Finest

Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Tim Drake

VS

Zuko , Azula and Iroh

Location: Pro-Bending Arena (Pro-Bending Rules Do NOT Apply/Bleachers and bottom stage are open)

Rules: Random Encounter

• Bat-Team's morals are on, Fire Nation's morals are off
• No prep, but both sides do get prior knowledge of the other team's abilities.
• Current character versions (Pre52 feats apply)
• KO, permanent BFR, incapacitation and death = Win

Gear:

• Dick has his esckrima sticks, Jason has a 9mm pistol with metal BB pellets, Tim has his staff. They are wearing their standard armored suits.
• Zuko has his swords, Azula has sanity, Iroh has tea

Bonus Round

Same Location

Rules: Random Encounter

• Bat-Team's morals are off, Water Team's morals are off
• No prep, but both sides do get prior knowledge of the other team's abilities.
• Current character versions (Pre52 feats apply)
• KO, permanent BFR, incapacitation and death = Win
• Amon and Tarrlok can only bloodbend one opponent at a time.

Gear: Standard

Team Avatar due to morals and lack of guns.

Even though May is a non-factor.

Azula is a match for Grayson, ty lee could take down drake, dunno about mai vs Todd. I think azulas fire bending wins it. This is taking into account Grayson and to a lesser extent drake are two of the best martial artists in the DCU, whilst azula is the single best, most powerful fire bender in the avatar universe except iroh, and has the most potential of any fire bender, easily able to outstrip ozai and zuko given enough prep (not even gonna consider jeong jeong). Ty lee is also seen as one of the greatest martial artists in the AU and mai isn't bad either, though not on the other two's level.

@YoungJustice said:

Team Avatar due to morals and lack of guns.

Even though May is a non-factor.

Mai isn't a non factor, she is a skilled marksman as well as a combatant, and she can provide support for her team.

@ascenscion said:

Azula is a match for Grayson, ty lee could take down drake, dunno about mai vs Todd. I think azulas fire bending wins it. This is taking into account Grayson and to a lesser extent drake are two of the best martial artists in the DCU, whilst azula is the single best, most powerful fire bender in the avatar universe except iroh, and has the most potential of any fire bender, easily able to outstrip ozai and zuko given enough prep (not even gonna consider jeong jeong). Ty lee is also seen as one of the greatest martial artists in the AU and mai isn't bad either, though not on the other two's level.

Take note that Nightwing has fire proof and insulated armor, so does Red Hood since he retains some of his old gear from his Robin years, as well as Tim who's cape is fire proof and has insulated armor. There isn't anything to suggest Ty Lee is the most skilled martial artist in Avatar Universe since Suki was able to stalemate her. Also there is nothing to suggest that Azula outstrips Ozai in any way and she was stalemated by Zuko at their best before and after sozins comet. I think you are overrating the Azula and Ty Lee a bit by saying they were the best of anything in their universe, they were elite no doubt, but not the best like you say they are, especially when you have nothing to prove it.

Nightwing and his team are well trained, much like Azulas team, but in any case no one here is the best of anything.

bump

Wow, good battle. I'm leaning toward the Bat-Family. Azula and Ty Lee are the big problems. May isn't bad, but she isn't a match for anyone in this.

@Batman242 said:

Wow, good battle. I'm leaning toward the Bat-Family. Azula and Ty Lee are the big problems. May isn't bad, but she isn't a match for anyone in this.

Yeah, Mai doesn't have really good showings, I mean it's implied that she's an elite marksman with throwing knives and a pretty good combatant but she's just lacking the showings....but like I said, she can provide cover for the others should they get in a hot spot and need a distraction.

If Todd has guns it really isn't much of a match. Someone with his skill/accuracy should make quick work of the girls. If the guys are unnarmed then the girls will win.

Mai may be lacking in showings, but the ones she does have are impressive. (Ex. pinning her opponents to the wall by their clothing without harming them.) She has never really missed, though her projectiles have been deflected or blocked.

@Ancient_0f_Days: Well, to counter that, Dick, Jason and Tim are trained to dodge such things. I mean her being an elite marksman must count for something, making it harder for them to dodge, but all Tim has to do is get in close and it's all over for the long range.... but then we still have Azula. Welp, insulated, fire resistant suits :D

@Batman242: Yeah, but then again, they wouldn't be focused on Mai, and one of them would be occupied by Ty Lee. Azula being the greatest threat would accumulate the most aggro from the Nightwing team, giving Mai an opening to do some damage, especially should Ty Lee paralyze one of them for a minute.

@Ancient_0f_Days: Ahhh, I like the way you think. They'd probably stay far in the beginning and make it easier for themselves to dodge a little something from Mai and Azula. Dick might go for the easiest one at long range; that being Ty Lee seeing as she doesn't have anything to do but stand because getting in close to attack one of em while they are close to each other, wouldn't be a smart move. She'd probably be able to take out Tim the easiest, but seeing as he has his staff, it won't be THAT easy. Dick and Jason getting in close to Mai and especially Azula is the hard part. Azula would most likely let Dick get in close (see what I did there?) to see him fight. Mai on the other hand wouldn't let Jason do the same. Jason has the hardest job here. I don't know who would win now, but like I said, good match-up

@Batman242 said:

@Ancient_0f_Days: Azula would most likely let Dick get in close (see what I did there?)

lol, but yeah. Dick going for Ty Lee at long range would be a challenge though, mainly due to Azula and Mai. I think Azula is a legit match for Nightwing though, both are leaders, extremely agile, extremely skilled etc. Mai and Red Hood are both good marksman, Todd uses guns mostly but he can translate that to throwing as well to match up with Mai who is almost as brooding as he is, but a little more emo lol. Tim doesn't really match up with Ty Lee as much as Dick does, but meh, this isn't a matchup battle lol. But yeah thanks, I was surprised this hasn't been done before, not even nightwing vs Azula or Ty Lee. My original fight was gonna be Batman vs Azula...but, well you already know lol

@Ancient_0f_Days: Batman vs Azula? I don't even think they'd fight. She'd be to stricken by his charm. JK lol, but that wouldn't be that bad a match. I say go for it.

Oh I didn't take Jason's gear into account. eh, Mai would stalemate him. Or Azula would just stop them - wait, can firebenders stop projectiles? Tim's best chance would be against Mai, but since she'd stay far, he can have problems. Lol, unless he has the staff from Arkham City. Azula is the true reason they would lose.

Batman...charming? What world do you live in?

@Batman242 said:

@Ancient_0f_Days: Batman vs Azula? I don't even think they'd fight. She'd be to stricken by his charm. JK lol, but that wouldn't be that bad a match. I say go for it.

Na, I'd have to take away his gadgets like sonics and concussives and all that good stuff. Maybe I will though, maybe.

@Batman242 said:

Oh I didn't take Jason's gear into account. eh, Mai would stalemate him. Or Azula would just stop them - wait, can firebenders stop projectiles? Tim's best chance would be against Mai, but since she'd stay far, he can have problems. Lol, unless he has the staff from Arkham City. Azula is the true reason they would lose.

It depends on the projectiles, but yeah, Azula has powerful enough fire to knock some out of the air and dodge the rest or maybe block them since she and her team are armored. Mai might be a problem for Tim, but she only has 20 of them knives, should she run out all she got is some fans she could throw, but if he gets in close it's gonna get problematic like you said. But that arkham city staff with the shield would to some real good against Mai and Azula for sure. Azula definitely is the heaviest hitter here, even though they are wearing insulated suits, that lightning could be a problem should she hit them more than a few times, along with the fire, it may be insulated and fire retardant but it can wear down after constant exposure, and Azula can bend some really hot fire. Still even on both ends though.

@Ancient_0f_Days: OMG, I forgot about that lightning. lol. That's just unfair. But even though the fire wearing down their suits can happen, it seems unlikely. I don't think they'd take any chances of being hit just because they have em on. Mai would probably just play it smart and throw 10 from long range and call it that. if they close in to mid-range is when she'd go all out with like 5 and use the remaining 5 close. Ugh, too many variables to this fight. I can't think >.<

@Batman242: LOL, I love having that effect on people, this is what threads are supposed to do. It's supposed to come down to a science and so many variables you gotta take a minute to think and its great to know that my threads do that. Not like other thread where they just say a name and move on. But yeah, this is great lol

@Ancient_0f_Days: Yea, sadly some people are fanboys and just pick their favorite side, leave, rile up people, come with crap reasons and call it that. I was thinking of Mai's character in this and how she'd just be like this is pointless and just walk away. lol. She probably wouldn't because of Azula. If you did this as a 1v1 tourney or something, it would've been easier, but this.... this just demands you to use your brain, and I like it :D.

@Batman242 said:

@Ancient_0f_Days: Yea, sadly some people are fanboys and just pick their favorite side, leave, rile up people, come with crap reasons and call it that. I was thinking of Mai's character in this and how she'd just be like this is pointless and just walk away. lol. She probably wouldn't because of Azula. If you did this as a 1v1 tourney or something, it would've been easier, but this.... this just demands you to use your brain, and I like it :D.

Yeah, like that dude in that Hulk thread lol "Superman can't beat Thor, Thor's GAWD, Hulk winzz" haha....

Mai would probably fight just cus it's something to do, and yeah she's still gotta follow Azula's orders. Unless Zuko's involved she'll do what she gotta do na mean.

1v1 would be too easy, yeah, maybe not Azula vs Nightwing, that's a good fight. but the other two...meh not so much. But hey, the more it makes you think, the better, people who don't think make one word answers, like @b00gan. But that's all it needs man, that's all it needs...

@Ancient_0f_Days: Precisely. He made ZERO sense. -.-

I don't remember that much with Avatar. They did have something goin' on right? I think I remember them two in a garden..... yep, they had somethin.

Ty Lee would stomp Tim, Jason, if he gets in close, would stomp Mai, but Dick and Azula would be perfect. lol, sometimes the one word thing is appropriate/alright to use, but not all the time. Especially when it comes to two big character. I.E Supes and Hulk, because some people clearly won't agree with logic.

@Batman242 said:

@Ancient_0f_Days: Precisely. He made ZERO sense. -.-

I don't remember that much with Avatar. They did have something goin' on right? I think I remember them two in a garden..... yep, they had somethin.

Ty Lee would stomp Tim, Jason, if he gets in close, would stomp Mai, but Dick and Azula would be perfect. lol, sometimes the one word thing is appropriate/alright to use, but not all the time. Especially when it comes to two big character. I.E Supes and Hulk, because some people clearly won't agree with logic.

Who Zuko and Mai? They've been together for almost all of the series but it was capitalized on through most of Chapter 3: Fire. They're Boyfriend and Girlfriend lol.

Yeah maybe, but Tim was trained by Shiva and Jason by Talia a bit, so I don't know if it'd be a stomp. Mai doesn't have many combat feats, but she's implied to cancel out with Ty Lee, like how Ty Lee is an expert at close range, Mai is what Ty is at long range. Mai vs Jason is meh cus Mai doesn't have many feats. But yeah Dick vs Azula would be great. I see what you mean though, I try not to give one word answers but there are just some threads that are just too obvious. But with Hulk vs Superman, I'd use a one word answer, because most people that disagree are either misinformed or Fanboys. I have met those who had a legit argument for Hulk but it was in threads with special conditions and all that.

@Ancient_0f_Days: Ty does have that annoying nerve touch. Tim should too. But, Ty uses hers more often. If not a stomp, a win after a good battle, but that staff does give him an advantage.

I'll skip Mai and Jason altogether. Dick vs Azula will be awesome if she keeps the firebending at a minimal and doesn't bother with the lightning. It would be a nice twist in it if she would use it at random. Only way Hulk is winning if Supes stays grounded.... and not even then I think he could (easily).

@Batman242 said:

@Ancient_0f_Days: Ty does have that annoying nerve touch. Tim should too. But, Ty uses hers more often. If not a stomp, a win after a good battle, but that staff does give him an advantage.

I agree with that.

@Batman242 said:

I'll skip Mai and Jason altogether. Dick vs Azula will be awesome if she keeps the firebending at a minimal and doesn't bother with the lightning. It would be a nice twist in it if she would use it at random. Only way Hulk is winning if Supes stays grounded.... and not even then I think he could (easily).

I don't think Dick will give her room for lightning anyway, especially if he goes in with projectiles a lot. Well, as long as BFR isn't allowed and speed is equalized, Hulk might win in a hard fought battle.

bump

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

@Batman242 said:

@Ancient_0f_Days: Azula would most likely let Dick get in close (see what I did there?)

lol, but yeah. Dick going for Ty Lee at long range would be a challenge though, mainly due to Azula and Mai. I think Azula is a legit match for Nightwing though, both are leaders, extremely agile, extremely skilled etc. Mai and Red Hood are both good marksman, Todd uses guns mostly but he can translate that to throwing as well to match up with Mai who is almost as brooding as he is, but a little more emo lol. Tim doesn't really match up with Ty Lee as much as Dick does, but meh, this isn't a matchup battle lol. But yeah thanks, I was surprised this hasn't been done before, not even nightwing vs Azula or Ty Lee. My original fight was gonna be Batman vs Azula...but, well you already know lol

LOL.

this isn't even a challenge the ex-robins wreck rather easily

@202122 said:

this isn't even a challenge the ex-robins wreck rather easily

? explain..

@Ancient_0f_Days: @Batman242: ok

- Better training

- Better strength feats

- Better speed feats

- Better fighting ability

- Better teamwork

- Better gear/armour

or we could look at it through match ups:

Nightwing Vs Azula

maybe if she was allowed to use lightning she'd stand a chance but she isn't going to hit Nightwing, 10 batarangs later and a thump to the side of the head Azula hits the ground. Even if this becomes a H2H fight Nightwing shows much better fighting ability and even with fire hands she wont land a blow especially with the escrima sticks. Granted Dick's New 52 feats haven't been that impressive but pre-52 feats apply and he has the new 52 armour to give him a bigger advantage

Jason Vs May

NOT even a challenge, Jason has been trained by the all-caste and i argue is now the best fighter out of the new 52 ex-Robin's, i mean tbh i would've put Azula against him. May shows skill with her stars but Jason is way to quick to be pinned that and his impressive strength and deadly, no holding back style give him an easy victory

Red Robin Vs Ty Lee

Girl gets stomped, but seriously she's never been seen using weapons plus she's better without them and she's easily the best fighter out of the three avatar girls so she doesn't need weapons. Tim Drake's new suit and armour can take blows from machine guns and an angry Superboy Ty Lee's nerve touch won't even get through the armour. Tim turns his wings into 1 one big swinging strike and cuts Ty Lee in half, yeah she's quick but not quick enough to beat Tim. Granted if this was no armour shirts and jeans battle Ty Lee could pull of the win

bump

Lol, I forgot about this thread. Still one of the best ones I've seen since I joined. Still don't know who would win.

Team 1 has more skill, better equipment and much better feats but Team 2 has the greater firepower as well as agility, I would say that Team 1 would win after a long fight also they would have better team coordination in my opinion although Team 2 has a really good chance.

tim is winning against either may or Ty Lee due to his invincible cape blocking projectiles/nerve strikes. jason takes down either one also due to his advanced training. also i think if he went against ty lee, he could probably go in another trance like he did in the first few issues of red hood and the outlaws.. that could protect/heal him from nerve strikes. and dick vs azula, dicks suit is insulated to stop her lightening and fire retardant to stop.. well fire. plus i think hes better trained. so im giving it to the bat family

BUMP

Bump lol

Team Ex Robins for the win

I am going to go for team Robin.

Many of the arguments put forward above me are persuasive and I believe that this match is close in terms of skill and in terms of offensive abilities such as martial arts, fire, strength feats, pressure point abilities and so forth.

However what sways me toward the Robins is the fact they are equipped with exceptionally good armor and the ladies have zero armor at all.

That means the Robin's can afford to mess up, they can take a couple fire blasts while they learn, or even trade hits in a hand to hand brawl. The ladies can't, and in the end its a decisive advantage for team Robin.

bump

Bump. This deserves so much more attention.

I believe Team Robins wins. Nightwing will deal with Azula, Red Hood will defeat Mai, and Tim Drake most likely defeats Ty Lee.

meh

Bump, cus why the hell not

Team Azula with mid-high dif. They are too tricky and insanely skilled to lose the majority here. The location makes it harder but I still give it to them.

Azula > Nightwing
Mai > Todd (as long as there are no guns)
Ty Lee > Red Robin

EDIT: I hate it when people reduce Mai's ammo to ridiculously bad levels. The girls lose.

exactly

@ancient_0f_days: These conditions are extremely unfavourable for team 2, this will most likely end as 3 vs 1 against Azula and she will lose(especially cause you nerfed her too.....).

@ancient_0f_days:

Also there is nothing to suggest that Azula outstrips Ozai in any way and she was stalemated by Zuko at their best before and after sozins comet. I think you are overrating the Azula and Ty Lee a bit by saying they were the best of anything in their universe, they were elite no doubt, but not the best like you say they are, especially when you have nothing to prove it.

Azula has by far the best non-comet feats of any firebender in the whole verse, and i would even argue that she possibly surpassed (non comet of course)Ozai already in Smoke and Shadow. Also was Azula at her absolutely worse in the Agni Kai and in The Search, even in the Southern Raiders was she already partly insane.

Sane/current Azula is without the slightest doubt superior to Zuko, by feats, portrayal/hype, in universe statements(hell even Zuko himself agreed with Iroh on that part), extern show writer comments and especially all fights Zuko ever had with sane Azula(or in short: by absolutely anything possible to confirm who stronger is).

Explain how I nerfed Azula or how the conditions are unfavorable? The extra gear gives them the same edge they had throughout the series against the Gaang ....

She has the best feats above them because she is portrayed as second to Ozai and had an entire season displaying feats to prove that, you want to argue surpassing Ozai but she is still not his superior based on the fact that we've only seen Ozai in action once and his hype outranks hers by far. That was pre-fire mastery / dragon dance Zuko who was not only emotionally conflicted but was also morally conflicted which hampered his skill almost as much as insanity debilitated Azula, the most even matches they had were the battles leading up to and during the boiling rock prison episode right before the betrayal of Ty Lee and Mai ..... those were the clearest and most consistent portrayals of their skill at their best and they were evenly matched both times the fact that they remained even during Sozin's comet leads me to believe the gap in skill between season 2 and season 3 Azula is not close enough to consider her performance during the comet weak.....Smoke and Shadow Azula may have been better than she was before, but better than Zuko? No, he held back in most of their fight and even then was easily matching her fire with his own, she was only more skilled in hand to hand combat, not bending.

Now unless you want to complain about the fact that I gave Mai 20 throwing blades and not 50, we should be done here

@ancient_0f_days:

Explain how I nerfed Azula or how the conditions are unfavorable? The extra gear gives them the same edge they had throughout the series against the Gaang ....

I need to explain why not being able to use lightning a nerf is, srsly?

The area is extremely unfavourable for them, and you also nerfed Mai(the weapons for Azula on the other hand are pretty useless).

Ozai but she is still not his superior based on the fact that we've only seen Ozai in action once and his hype outranks hers by far

It is not even possible to outrank his hype, but considering his comet feats is it very debatable(just his amped jets are stil rly impressive in comparison to Kemurikage Azula, but it's very doubtful how good these would be without comet.).

hat was pre-fire mastery / dragon dance Zuko who was not only emotionally conflicted but was also morally conflicted which hampered his skill almost as much as insanity debilitated Azula

Zuko was inferior in absolutely any fight with sane Azula, before and after the dragon training.

the most even matches they had were the battles leading up to and during the boiling rock prison episode right before the betrayal of Ty Lee and Mai ..... those were the clearest and most consistent portrayals of their skill at their best and they were evenly matched both times

So first of all was that exactly 1 fight, not fights.

Second was Azula fighting Zuko and Sokka simultaneously while balancing on the edge of the Gondola, and they were still even under such circumstances. So her superiority above him couldn't have been more obvious at that point.

the fact that they remained even during Sozin's comet leads me to believe the gap in skill between season 2 and season 3 Azula is not close enough to consider her performance during the comet weak.....

What has the gap between season 2 and 3 to do with Azula's obviously weak comet performance, she was unprecise, uncontrolled, hasty, didn't used her agility much and even became completely exhausted(you should probably rly rewatch the series).

And btw. official showwriter comment to the Agni Kai:

Azula is normally a much better fighter than Zuko.

Let alone the in universe agreement from Iroh and Zuko himself, that Azula too strong for him alone is(what do you even think why he took Katara with him?). And later on again a statement of Zuko, where he literally explained to Katara that Azula weaker is.

Smoke and Shadow Azula may have been better than she was before, but better than Zuko? No, he held back in most of their fight and even then was easily matching her fire with his own, she was only more skilled in hand to hand combat, not bending.

Lmao "Zuko holding back" did you even read the comics, Azula was the one holding back the whole time(which she actually reavealed at the end)........

Dude he attacked her and she easily blocked his fire with her own, not the other way around.

Lightning alone makes her already the superior firebender, but she has also better versatility, fire shield, fire jets, explosive blasts, fire amps, fire heat/vaporizing and attack speed feats.

Let alone her better h2h, agility, general speed, tactic and reaction feats.

There is still not even the slightest doubt that Azula clearly the superior fighter is.

Now unless you want to complain about the fact that I gave Mai 20 throwing blades and not 50, we should be done here

How about you simply don't restrict her blades, and i'm not too sure if we're done her.

@itachus17: I didn't specifically say she "doesn't" have lightning bending, its just a subset of fire anyway....so how is she nerfed? Even if I did specifically restrict lightning, how would that affect her performance when her feats without it are just as good and plentiful?

Ozai's skill with his bending is apparent with or without the comet, the extent of his power was amplified, not his skill......and he showed much more technique than Azula on any given episode or book for that matter

There was not one fight that Zuko looked inferior after Dragon Training before the series ended, only time he looked half bad after that was in Smoke and Shadow, and although she was holding back so was he, he only wanted to talk (as stated), she was not a superior bender but a superior H2H fighter which is exactly how she got the upper hand before they continued and Zuko made a statement confirming his full investment in the battle before they clashed again at the end of the 3rd vol.....they were both slacking and their bending was even. The only thing that makes Azula better at bending alone is the lightning since Zuko clearly could no longer redirect it.....

The Search episode where they fought and the Boiling Rock episode are clear portrayals of Azula at her least mentally unstable....that said .... BOTH fights are valid and she was clearly not sloppy then, especially in comparison with her comet feats...not 1, 2, and Sokka was behind Zuko for 80% of that fight, but he did help against Azula, if only for 2 swings

Mai does not need 50 knives

@ancient_0f_days: Oh no, you've triggered the bat fans!