Avatar image for daspos
#1 Posted by Daspos (14 posts) - - Show Bio

I was just discussing this with a friend, who would win?

The Night King and his army of roughly 100,000 wights and whitewalkers and

*mild spoiler*

Undead Dragon

*end mild spoiler*

Vs Sauron and his army at the start of LOTR when they fought the last alliance. So this is Sauron with the ring and he has Nazgul on fellbeasts and the Witch King of Angmar.

The Battle takes place on the plains of middle-earth but I am going to say that the Night Ling has brought Winter with him so it is cold.

Avatar image for nerdchore
#2 Posted by nerdchore (8212 posts) - - Show Bio

Sauron

Avatar image for godren
#3 Posted by Godren (3792 posts) - - Show Bio

LOTR>GOT.I think Sauron takes thing handily without much of an issue.

Avatar image for necromancer76
#4 Edited by Necromancer76 (3785 posts) - - Show Bio

Depends entirely on whether the Night King can bring enemies back to life. If he can, he wins. If he can't, he loses. Sauron had hundreds of thousands of orcs alone. With the addition of trolls, Olog-hai, easterlings, haradrim and their mumakil, etc. he should win pretty easily.

Btw, the Nazgul didn't have fell beasts during the events of the Last Alliance :P

Avatar image for daspos
#5 Posted by Daspos (14 posts) - - Show Bio

I would have to side with Sauron for this. I think the Night Ling has a number advantage but Sauron's army could use tactics and we have not seen the Night Kings wights run a flank are spearhead with a vanguard or anything like that. The big question which could turn the tide would be whether or not the Night King could turn Sauron's own dead troops against him and whether or not anyone other than Sauron could slay a whitewalker or if he himself would have to kill all of them including the Night King. The advantage in the air I think is balanced because the undead dragon is a beast but the 9 fellbeasts should be able to take it with a speed advantage even though eventually the night king could ice javelin them out of the skies. I would have to to give it to Sauron's forces also but it is still a fun discussion.

Avatar image for necromancer76
#6 Posted by Necromancer76 (3785 posts) - - Show Bio

@daspos said:

I think the Night King has a number advantage

Nah, the army that marched on Minas Tirith alone was like 300,000 strong.

Avatar image for daspos
#7 Edited by Daspos (14 posts) - - Show Bio

That's true that Sauron didn't have fellbeasts during that fight but I wanted to give him a fully loaded army. I wouldn't think that the Night King could resurrect Sauron's troops due to Sauron's own skills in "necromancy". I think that they would cancel each other out. And while Sauron has trolls and the like the Night King also has undead beasts in his army and giants.

Avatar image for necromancer76
#8 Posted by Necromancer76 (3785 posts) - - Show Bio
No Caption Provided

Oh forgot about these too. The Night King can't bring 20 of these down.

Avatar image for chronicplane
#9 Posted by Chronicplane (9365 posts) - - Show Bio

The night king wins in the short run, Sauron wins in the long run nuff said.

Avatar image for daspos
#10 Posted by Daspos (14 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for richard96
#11 Posted by Richard96 (5825 posts) - - Show Bio

The dead in got are fodder

Avatar image for brownzeus
#12 Posted by BrownZeus (980 posts) - - Show Bio

Sauron GG if Night King can not turn his opponents.

If Night King can then it's another story. Wights in GoT are Mainly made from humans, of those there are white walkers.

Sauron's forces posess higher intelligence, they can flank and use tactics. Even the most basic Orc is stronger than a human. If Night King can not turn his opponents then the forces of the night will be overwhelmed, they might not be able to burn all the wights, or kill white walkers themselves, but Nazgûl and the Witch-king of Angmar should posess the magical powers to bypass that barrier, with the orcs and other forces of Mordor wights get run down and the 2 ring-wielding servants of Sauron will finish off the Night King.

Were the Night King be capable of ressurecting tho... that changes everything because now Night King can recycle his undead army to the next level, imagine wight orcs or even orcs as white walkers, they would stop any force in direct combat. Oliphants mean shit against the Night King's spears and they as well can be revived as wights or white walkers, any big spiders or trolls, any force comitted to attacking the undead can strongly backfire, this would certainly make things tip in the Night-King's favor, if a white walker falls Night King can just make more.

Avatar image for godemperor123
#13 Posted by GodEmperor123 (1058 posts) - - Show Bio

sauron handily

Avatar image for deactivated-5b2121a0a9a00
#14 Posted by deactivated-5b2121a0a9a00 (10000 posts) - - Show Bio

Sauron.

Avatar image for noah_ouellette
#15 Edited by noah_ouellette (3786 posts) - - Show Bio

It really doesn't even matter. Sauron fighting against Gil-Galad and Elendil put him above anyone in GoT. He has few feats but he does happen to have really good durability(Valar weren't able to harm him with their lightning. Albeit they were not trying to kill him just harass him. Which was destroying entire buildings and disintegrating people near where it struck.) Also inb4 somebody comes in with "A sword cut him" This sword was hardcore enchanted.

Avatar image for nuincalion
#16 Edited by Nuincalion (2 posts) - - Show Bio

I would say Sauron, because he out classes the night king in nearly everything, he is a many thousands of years old Maia spirit, who was given power by the dark one Melkor (Morgoth). Several of his feats include, but are not limited to, causing meteors to fall, bringing back to life his most faithful servants, rendering himself almost virtually unkillable.

Think he was the Necromancer of Dol Guldur, he can also raise the dead to his command, so what's to say that he couldn't just, theoretically take over the Night King's Army. Food for though.

But even if the Night King can resurrect Sauron's forces, than Sauron can easily send down a flock of flaming rockss from space crashing into the Night King and his forces.

All in all Sauron wins ten times out of ten

Avatar image for leito
#17 Posted by leito (440 posts) - - Show Bio

I would say Sauron, because he out classes the night king in nearly everything, he is a many thousands of years old Maia spirit, who was given power by the dark one Melkor (Morgoth). Several of his feats include, but are not limited to, causing meteors to fall, bringing back to life his most faithful servants, rendering himself almost virtually unkillable.

Think he was the Necromancer of Dol Guldur, he can also raise the dead to his command, so what's to say that he couldn't just, theoretically take over the Night King's Army. Food for though.

But even if the Night King can resurrect Sauron's forces, than Sauron can easily send down a flock of flaming rockss from space crashing into the Night King and his forces.

All in all Sauron wins ten times out of ten

Are there quotes stating that Sauron caused meteors to fall and raised the dead ?

Avatar image for con7879
#18 Edited by Con7879 (607 posts) - - Show Bio

Sauron

Avatar image for nuincalion
#19 Posted by Nuincalion (2 posts) - - Show Bio

@leito: it is in the Silmirilian, and unfinished tales/works, and I really don't feel like finding the quote

Avatar image for deactivated-5aad0467ddfcf
#20 Posted by deactivated-5aad0467ddfcf (965 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for leito
#21 Edited by leito (440 posts) - - Show Bio

@leito: it is in the Silmirilian, and unfinished tales/works, and I really don't feel like finding the quote

Don't bother, they don't exist. At least not in the Silmarillion, the Unfinished Tales, the Akallabeth or the Lord of the Rings.

Avatar image for maiamaku
#22 Posted by maiamaku (1537 posts) - - Show Bio

Sauron was a necromancer when weakened. His armies are far larger and more powerful, and he himself is vastly more powerful than the night king.

Avatar image for andrei2103
#23 Edited by andrei2103 (1 posts) - - Show Bio

What are we talking about? If the orcs don't have valyrian steel or dragonglass wich I assume they don't there is no competition for the night king because the wights won't take any damage unless sauron has some fire tricks. And let's not forget the ressurecting and the fact that he brings storms.

Avatar image for xtreamrob
#24 Posted by xtreamrob (37 posts) - - Show Bio

What are we talking about? If the orcs don't have valyrian steel or dragonglass wich I assume they don't there is no competition for the night king because the wights won't take any damage

Yeah the orcs die and are raised as wights. If the walkers engage chances are they bring a blizzard and theres nothing the orcs can do anyway. Plus the orcs aren't doing anything against the undead giants the trolls however would be interesting unless they get stormed by the dead like with Drogon, and Viserion torches them and the Nazgul within the Night Kings blizzard. Which leaves Sauron himself. Im curious how their magic can hold up against each other, but I'll lean with the Night King though, seeing that he's only vulnerable to Valyrian Steel (and maybe dragonglass). He'll take some hits from Sauron but those ice javelins one shot a dragon from about 2 maybe 300 yards. I just wish we actually got to see him fight though!

Avatar image for faradaysloth
#25 Posted by FaradaySloth (10631 posts) - - Show Bio

Just get some dragonglass and gg you just became a one-man army.

Avatar image for combatt
#26 Posted by Combatt (658 posts) - - Show Bio

Sauron throws a girl with a dagger at the Night King... battle over.

Avatar image for doofasa
#27 Posted by Doofasa (2229 posts) - - Show Bio

The Night King and his time army would win eventually, but it would be a long war.

Without dragon glass or Valerian Steel the vast majority of Saurons army can’t keep any of the undead down. Every time they attack there will be casualties and eventually they’ll join the other army.

A couple of the larger creatures like Oliphants and trolls will get ice speared or swarmed and then risen from the dead. Once that occurs it’s game over, as Saurons army won’t be able to bring them down.

Avatar image for flashback0180
#28 Posted by flashback0180 (4498 posts) - - Show Bio

Night king Rolfstomps

Avatar image for keyfirstnaten
#29 Posted by KeyFirstnaten (252 posts) - - Show Bio

Unlike Sauron's forces, the Night-King's doesn't die.

Avatar image for metaljimmor
#30 Edited by MetalJimmor (6579 posts) - - Show Bio

Just pointing this out, but you don't need dragonglass to put wights down. They can't reassemble. If you dismember them enough they won't be able to keep fighting. On top of that they are super vulnerable to being burned and Sauron is a walking furnace who's very touch can torch people.

Wights also can't put down Sauron or his Nazgul. Nor could the White Walkers, really. Nazgul just become disembodied spirits that can be re-equipped with a cloak and weapon by Sauron when their physical presence is destroyed, but nobody in the Night King's army can mess with their spirits or unbind the magic that keeps them tethered to the world. Even worse, the Witch King can use his magic to ignite his sword, making him a hard counter to white walkers who are vulnerable to fire magic (Valyrian steel and Dragonglass both damage them because of their close ties to the element of fire).

On top of that, Sauron's forces have actual tactics and far superior gear. The reason the dead overwhelmed the living at Winterfell is through sheer numbers, but Sauron arguably has a similar number of troops. If not far, far superior. The 100,000 number being tossed around is a fairly low estimate.

The Last Alliance is a really, really vague time for numbers. We can assume the Great Host of the Last Alliance had a minimum of 100,000ish troops in total because Tolkien by and large used specific terminology when describing army sizes, and that is what he generally meant when he called something a "great host". Since each race had its own host (20,000-50,000) or army (10,000 to 25,000 by Tolkien standards) the estimate in total numbers is anywhere between 100,000 and 140,000.

And Sauron's forces were supposed to be far greater than that. By how much we don't know, but it is already enough to greatly outnumber the dead.

Link to relevant information.

Individually wights are probably about as deadly as a standard orc, but you'd need dozens at least to threaten a troll and an oliphaunts could pretty much walk through them unopposed. With superior numbers the orcs should be able to out-flank the Army of the Dead and contain them. The dead don't raise themselves instantly, a white walker needs to be on the field to do that, and if they take the field they become vulnerable to the magic of the Witch King or Sauron.

Bare in mind, Sauron and the Witch King possesses long ranged telekinetic powers, can shatter the enemy's weapons in their hands, and conjure spells that inflict and control fear. The white walkers have no shown resistance to effects like this, and they visibly show emotion at multiple different points.

Interestingly, a part of the skill set of both Sauron and the Witch King, and presumably the other nazgul as well as Sauron had taught the nazgul, is necromancy. However Tolkien's necromancy is quite different from what the Night King does. Rather than just raising corpses they send corrupted spirits out that can then possess dead corpses and control them from the inside. These spirits are themselves fully autonomous and able to cast spells to some extent. We only ever really see them in Fellowship when the Hobbits find themselves in the Barrow-Downs, but it is a potential hard counter to the Night King's necromancy.

So all in all, the only real threat is the sheer number of white walkers. The wights, necromancy, and individual white walkers won't be a huge issue, and the Night King places his whole army at risk if he tries to fly in on Viserion. I don't see him defeating Sauron in combat either, and I don't see why Sauron wouldn't opt to try and break him personally if he notices how big a threat he is.

Avatar image for jonjizz
#31 Edited by jonjizz (1147 posts) - - Show Bio

@necromancer76 said:
No Caption Provided

Oh forgot about these too. The Night King can't bring 20 of these down.

No Caption Provided

No Caption Provided
Avatar image for eri123
#32 Posted by eri123 (1711 posts) - - Show Bio

Sauron.

Avatar image for jack_hart
#33 Edited by Jack_Hart (950 posts) - - Show Bio

Sauron's forces stomp. The Last Alliance host was way bigger than the wight horde, and Sauron's host was even bigger than that of the Last Alliance's. Sauron himself takes care of the Night King.

Avatar image for redzkz
#34 Posted by Redzkz (3719 posts) - - Show Bio

Question. How is Night King supposed to stop something like:

Loading Video...

Sauron did it without Ring and even without a body.

Avatar image for tourneymaster
#35 Posted by TourneyMaster (1726 posts) - - Show Bio

Arya appears out of nowhere and stabs Night King before the fight starts.

Avatar image for supermanwithatan01
#36 Posted by Supermanwithatan01 (10320 posts) - - Show Bio

Sauron mops the floor with them.

Avatar image for captain_inverse
#37 Posted by captain_inverse (2368 posts) - - Show Bio

What is essentially an enchanted human with an undead army vs. An evil higher being with a larger army.

I doubt NKs frost can overcome Saurons control of whether.

Avatar image for chronicplane
#38 Posted by Chronicplane (9365 posts) - - Show Bio

Arya appears out of nowhere and stabs Night King before the fight starts.

Avatar image for necromancer76
#39 Posted by Necromancer76 (3785 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for larryvos
#40 Posted by LarryVos (9 posts) - - Show Bio

Mismatch. Sauron murderstomps

Avatar image for pastepotpete1
#41 Posted by pastepotpete1 (3446 posts) - - Show Bio

nigth king wins Sharon would get bored to death

Avatar image for pastepotpete1
#42 Edited by pastepotpete1 (3446 posts) - - Show Bio

@larryvos said:

Mismatch. Sauron murderstomps

even if sauron does " stomp" night kings armies the fallen soliders Sauron will be ressurected by night king eventually sauron and his forces will be overwhelmed

night king is pretty much immune to everything

- to fire

- time travel( erasing him i mean)

- plus he can throw spears the way that gambit can throw cards at people he can throw a ice spear at like 400 mphs a hour which may not seem like much but its a freaking spear for trying outloud and its not really made out of ice its made out of magic

telenkensis wouldnt work either if it did the red women children of the forest .. only way to kill Night King is to use dragon- glass into his heart .. kind of like Dracula

Night King wins after a really really long and hard fought fight .. with no dragon -glass suaron cannot put night king down for good

" the battle takes place in middle -earth" okay i live on middle earth and i am telling you right now .. there is no dragon -glass on this planet.. sauron losses eventually

Avatar image for jack_hart
#44 Posted by Jack_Hart (950 posts) - - Show Bio

@pastepotpete1: Night King will have difficulty resurrecting anyone while dealing with Sauron and/or the Nazgul. His immortality has never been tested against supernatural foes of their level.

Avatar image for pastepotpete1
#45 Posted by pastepotpete1 (3446 posts) - - Show Bio

@pastepotpete1: Night King will have difficulty resurrecting anyone while dealing with Sauron and/or the Nazgul. His immortality has never been tested against supernatural foes of their level.

bullshit .. lord of the ring is basically a lot of a b rated acting and a time when they just started getting really really good with CGI

in the GOT book the humans already beat the White Walkers and the COTF i think they killed like 20 white walkers .. NK didnt even show up .. he doesnt need to .. all White Walkers can necro too but NK has different powers like umm i dont have time to tell you his powers but has sauron and nazgul ever fought in the freezing snow before?

Avatar image for pastepotpete1
#46 Edited by pastepotpete1 (3446 posts) - - Show Bio

but yeah i agree with you on one thing .. the Night King has a lot of powers but he himself cannot create another White Walker ..only a child of the forest can make more white walkers.. but yeah if NK is dead being he was a Stark before he entered the life of the undead if he dies being he was the first of his kind then all the White Walkers and wights die too

Avatar image for pastepotpete1
#47 Posted by pastepotpete1 (3446 posts) - - Show Bio

honestly i woud love to make up lies and say NK can create a hundred white walkers but he cant even make one .. they are mostly body guards for him but they can necromance .. so the NK will do the same thing he did when he lost to the humans 5,000 years ago .. he will disapear somewhere and they will have to just keep fighting wights until they die and dont forget .. the WhiteWalkers can necromance any animal even magical ones that shoot fire .. a WW can necro one of those 24 ton elephants that belong to saurons army

Avatar image for hypnos0929
#48 Posted by Hypnos0929 (6720 posts) - - Show Bio

This fight is really dependent on if the Night King can bring enemies back. If he can then he'll eventually win by bringing armies to death then raising them.

Avatar image for pastepotpete1
#49 Edited by pastepotpete1 (3446 posts) - - Show Bio

okay i just did more research i mean i have seen every single episode cept for two but

the Night King he actually can make his own White Walkers but he needs not just a new born child but a offered new born male -child

so with that being said i would have to say Night King stomps .. plently of elves and humans sexing it up :) and reproducing ... o wait ? can a elf and a human have a baby together?

also take in mind that the Night King can reaminate not only magic beings but after re animation they still keep their magic properties such as a dragons breathing fire etc

i dont know anything about sauron or lord of the rings i just watched all three of the movies of and i mean its okay but i get something like a not satified taste in my mouth .. and i felt so bad for that dwarf .. last of his kind .. no chance of ever getting a gf !

Avatar image for pastepotpete1
#50 Edited by pastepotpete1 (3446 posts) - - Show Bio

@hypnos0929 said:

This fight is really dependent on if the Night King can bring enemies back. If he can then he'll eventually win by bringing armies to death then raising them.

ofcourse he can he can bring back humans , bears , tigers , giants and dragons and if its a baby and its given to him willingly then it takes years for it to become like white walker.. in other words the NK doesnt need to be present