New Gods vs Asgard/Team Odin

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Supermanthor

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vs

pre 52

616 ( not current version )

who wins ?

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FireStarLord73194

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Does the necrosword really have any limits? It’s taken celestials out rather easily, if not then Gorr carries his team

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takenstew22

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I might give this to team because of Odin. I heard Yuga Khan was very powerful though and even Darkseid feared him.

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Ouroborik

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Who is that Frost Giant guy? Doesn't look like Ymir.

Anyway, the battle starts and Highfather uses the Alpha Effect to amp Orion and Lightray to Trans-tier powerhouses. Being an hardcore pacifist I doubt he will want to soil his hands in Asgardian blood.

Thor and Loki get one-shotted. That Frost Giant guy probably gets wrecked as well, unless that is actually Ymir. I have no idea how Hela actually fares in battle so I'll just assume she stalemates Darkseid and they both drop from the battle.

Which leaves Odin, the Destroyer, Surtur and Gorr to fight against Yuga Khan, the Black Racer, Infinity Man, Takion and amped Orion and Lightray. I'm not sure how strong Gorr is, but I'm assuming he gets rid of Infinity Man easily but gets matched by the amped Orion and Lightray, and all those four guys run out of juice and drop from the fight.

Takion, Yuga Khan and Black Racer vs Odin, Destroyer and Surtur is a hard one, but the Marvel guys just have better feats overall. Black Racer was bested by Alpha Effect Mister Miracle and Yuga Khan's best feat was one-shotting a planet. Impressive, but not that much against Surtur and Odin's consistent star system busting. Takion doesn't really have any feats above herald-level and even if Highfather decides to start fighting back, he is going to have a hard time against two Skyfathers.

Going by this train of thought, the Marvel team wins.

However, if we take into consideration Darkseid and Highfather's abstract status as living ideas, we open a whole other can of worms. If True Darkseid is to be taken as the universe-level being who brought about Final Crisis, he may be able to just crush everyone in the Marvel team under his hyperdimensional body (heavily damaging spacetime as a result). But True,Darkseid doesn't really seem to care about fighting 3-dimensional beings.

Great fight, but why don't you tag me for New Gods fights? I'm pretty sure I've asked you before :P

Also, that Highfather picture is New 52 DouchebagFather.

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Supermanthor

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#8  Edited By Supermanthor

@ouroborik: that's Ymir couldn't find a better picture lol and I will tag you from now :p

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deactivated-6044a3a59a9f4

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Team 2

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Superman19

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team 1 idk how they'll put down black racer.

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WollfMyth209

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#11  Edited By WollfMyth209

Team 1.

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Ouroborik

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@ouroborik: that's Ymir couldn't find a better picture lol and I will tag you from now :p

Ohh alright, I thought it might have been some new Frost Giant I didn't know about. I've read they brought back Laufey recently.

team 1 idk how they'll put down black racer.

This could work:

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Consciouskeeper

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Yuga solos

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tensor

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Team one without a doubt.

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byondeon

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Odin solo.

Surtur solo.

Gorr solo.

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Superman19

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@ouroborik: interesting. Is that something the other team can do?

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Ouroborik

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@ouroborik: interesting. Is that something the other team can do?

Considering that Scott's power is very similar to the Odinforce, I'd say Odin can probably do the same thing.

@byondeon said:

Odin solo.

Surtur solo.

Gorr solo.

No way any of those guys is soloing the combined might Yuga Khan, Darkseid and Highfather, not even getting into Black Racer and Takion who could at the very least provide some great distraction.

Darkseid alone is close to Odin's level if we use his best showings (even ignoring Final Crisis).

Yuga Khan is a casual planet buster.

Highfather is a pacifist but he can amp his allies with the Alpha Effect and is definitely Skyfather-tier if he feels forced to fight.

I can provide feats and sources for everything I just said.

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byondeon

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@superman19 said:

@ouroborik: interesting. Is that something the other team can do?

Considering that Scott's power is very similar to the Odinforce, I'd say Odin can probably do the same thing.

@byondeon said:

Odin solo.

Surtur solo.

Gorr solo.

No way any of those guys is soloing the combined might Yuga Khan, Darkseid and Highfather, not even getting into Black Racer and Takion who could at the very least provide some great distraction.

Darkseid alone is close to Odin's level if we use his best showings (even ignoring Final Crisis).

Yuga Khan is a casual planet buster.

Highfather is a pacifist but he can amp his allies with the Alpha Effect and is definitely Skyfather-tier if he feels forced to fight.

I can provide feats and sources for everything I just said.

Wrong.

They all solo.

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pansito

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odin galaxy bust gg

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wwe234

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#20  Edited By wwe234

This is basically Odin surtur gorr vs Yuga Khan Takion and Black racer

T2 has this in a dope fight

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Ouroborik

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@byondeon said:
@ouroborik said:
@superman19 said:

@ouroborik: interesting. Is that something the other team can do?

Considering that Scott's power is very similar to the Odinforce, I'd say Odin can probably do the same thing.

@byondeon said:

Odin solo.

Surtur solo.

Gorr solo.

No way any of those guys is soloing the combined might Yuga Khan, Darkseid and Highfather, not even getting into Black Racer and Takion who could at the very least provide some great distraction.

Darkseid alone is close to Odin's level if we use his best showings (even ignoring Final Crisis).

Yuga Khan is a casual planet buster.

Highfather is a pacifist but he can amp his allies with the Alpha Effect and is definitely Skyfather-tier if he feels forced to fight.

I can provide feats and sources for everything I just said.

Wrong.

They all solo.

Blind fanboy detected.

Darkseid defeated Mordru, a being stated on panel to be powerful enough to destroy galaxies.

Yuga Khan instantly destroyed a planet by landing on it and draining all its energy. He then did the same for several other planets in a small amount of time.

Highfather can one-shot Thor-level beings effortlessly if he ever feels the need to directly participate in a fight.

I'd love to see you providing some evidence for Odin or Surtur being able to solo this team lol.

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byondeon

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@byondeon said:
@ouroborik said:
@superman19 said:

@ouroborik: interesting. Is that something the other team can do?

Considering that Scott's power is very similar to the Odinforce, I'd say Odin can probably do the same thing.

@byondeon said:

Odin solo.

Surtur solo.

Gorr solo.

No way any of those guys is soloing the combined might Yuga Khan, Darkseid and Highfather, not even getting into Black Racer and Takion who could at the very least provide some great distraction.

Darkseid alone is close to Odin's level if we use his best showings (even ignoring Final Crisis).

Yuga Khan is a casual planet buster.

Highfather is a pacifist but he can amp his allies with the Alpha Effect and is definitely Skyfather-tier if he feels forced to fight.

I can provide feats and sources for everything I just said.

Wrong.

They all solo.

Blind fanboy detected.

Darkseid defeated Mordru, a being stated on panel to be powerful enough to destroy galaxies.

Yuga Khan instantly destroyed a planet by landing on it and draining all its energy. He then did the same for several other planets in a small amount of time.

Highfather can one-shot Thor-level beings effortlessly if he ever feels the need to directly participate in a fight.

I'd love to see you providing some evidence for Odin or Surtur being able to solo this team lol.

I know how powerful Mordru is, doesn't change the fact Darkseid is not beating him if not depowered.

Casual planet busting is a Thor/BRB/Loki thing. Nothing too impressive.

Odin/Surtur/Gorr can one-shot Highfather level beings effortlessly.

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Ouroborik

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@byondeon said:
@ouroborik said:
@byondeon said:
@ouroborik said:
@superman19 said:

@ouroborik: interesting. Is that something the other team can do?

Considering that Scott's power is very similar to the Odinforce, I'd say Odin can probably do the same thing.

@byondeon said:

Odin solo.

Surtur solo.

Gorr solo.

No way any of those guys is soloing the combined might Yuga Khan, Darkseid and Highfather, not even getting into Black Racer and Takion who could at the very least provide some great distraction.

Darkseid alone is close to Odin's level if we use his best showings (even ignoring Final Crisis).

Yuga Khan is a casual planet buster.

Highfather is a pacifist but he can amp his allies with the Alpha Effect and is definitely Skyfather-tier if he feels forced to fight.

I can provide feats and sources for everything I just said.

Wrong.

They all solo.

Blind fanboy detected.

Darkseid defeated Mordru, a being stated on panel to be powerful enough to destroy galaxies.

Yuga Khan instantly destroyed a planet by landing on it and draining all its energy. He then did the same for several other planets in a small amount of time.

Highfather can one-shot Thor-level beings effortlessly if he ever feels the need to directly participate in a fight.

I'd love to see you providing some evidence for Odin or Surtur being able to solo this team lol.

I know how powerful Mordru is, doesn't change the fact Darkseid is not beating him if not depowered.

Casual planet busting is a Thor/BRB/Loki thing. Nothing too impressive.

Odin/Surtur/Gorr can one-shot Highfather level beings effortlessly.

Mordru wasn't depowered in any way when Darkseid beat him.

Please show me Loki planet-busting, I would love to see it.

And I still haven't seen a single feat mentioned as to why Odin/Surtur/Gorr can one-shot anyone on the DC team. If you are seriously not going to provide a single argument I'll really just assume you're a troll and stop this debate.

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byondeon

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@byondeon said:
@ouroborik said:
@byondeon said:
@ouroborik said:
@superman19 said:

@ouroborik: interesting. Is that something the other team can do?

Considering that Scott's power is very similar to the Odinforce, I'd say Odin can probably do the same thing.

@byondeon said:

Odin solo.

Surtur solo.

Gorr solo.

No way any of those guys is soloing the combined might Yuga Khan, Darkseid and Highfather, not even getting into Black Racer and Takion who could at the very least provide some great distraction.

Darkseid alone is close to Odin's level if we use his best showings (even ignoring Final Crisis).

Yuga Khan is a casual planet buster.

Highfather is a pacifist but he can amp his allies with the Alpha Effect and is definitely Skyfather-tier if he feels forced to fight.

I can provide feats and sources for everything I just said.

Wrong.

They all solo.

Blind fanboy detected.

Darkseid defeated Mordru, a being stated on panel to be powerful enough to destroy galaxies.

Yuga Khan instantly destroyed a planet by landing on it and draining all its energy. He then did the same for several other planets in a small amount of time.

Highfather can one-shot Thor-level beings effortlessly if he ever feels the need to directly participate in a fight.

I'd love to see you providing some evidence for Odin or Surtur being able to solo this team lol.

I know how powerful Mordru is, doesn't change the fact Darkseid is not beating him if not depowered.

Casual planet busting is a Thor/BRB/Loki thing. Nothing too impressive.

Odin/Surtur/Gorr can one-shot Highfather level beings effortlessly.

Mordru wasn't depowered in any way when Darkseid beat him.

Please show me Loki planet-busting, I would love to see it.

And I still haven't seen a single feat mentioned as to why Odin/Surtur/Gorr can one-shot anyone on the DC team. If you are seriously not going to provide a single argument I'll really just assume you're a troll and stop this debate.

Yes, he wasn't at full power.

Go Loki have not planet busted, but he is able to as he has beaten several people with durability far above that.

Odin/Surtur have easily destroyed Galaxies. Both are way above that. Read some comics. Gorr beat Old King Thor who is close to Galactus in powers.

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Ouroborik

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@byondeon:

I'm out of this discussion, go troll someone else.

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The_Titan_Lord

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Team Marvel.

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deactivated-5d2cf537b4a1c

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Marvel and Odin/Surtur carry

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@ouroborik: that still leaves infinite man, darkseid, and highfather. I'm still leaning towards team one. But I can be convinced otherwise.

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@ouroborik: Darkseid was amped when he beat Mordru.

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Team 2

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@takenstew22 said:

@ouroborik: Darkseid was amped when he beat Mordru.

No, he wasn't. He was actually weakened.

No, he wasn't. He let his "servants" out on a mission to bring multiple objects of power to him and he absorbed them. He did these right before he faced Mordru.

(Forgive me if this counts as breaking the new rule)

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@ouroborik said:
@takenstew22 said:

@ouroborik: Darkseid was amped when he beat Mordru.

No, he wasn't. He was actually weakened.

No, he wasn't. He let his "servants" out on a mission to bring multiple objects of power to him and he absorbed them. He did these right before he faced Mordru.

(Forgive me if this counts as breaking the new rule)

These objects didn't amp him, they fed him some of the energy he had lost and he was still much weaker than usual after feeding on them. He states that several times throughout the story. Heck, at the very end he states that even after feeding on Mordru and the Time Trapper he was still weaker than his prime self.

No Caption Provided

Furthermore Highfather, Darkseid's absolute equal, was shown to be as powerful as Darkseid himself at the end of the Saga. So, even if we were to assume that Darkseid was amped (and I absolutely disagree with that statement), then Highfather himself is stronger than Mordru.

And Highfather is also in this battle, so do the math.

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takenstew22

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@takenstew22 said:
@ouroborik said:
@takenstew22 said:

@ouroborik: Darkseid was amped when he beat Mordru.

No, he wasn't. He was actually weakened.

No, he wasn't. He let his "servants" out on a mission to bring multiple objects of power to him and he absorbed them. He did these right before he faced Mordru.

(Forgive me if this counts as breaking the new rule)

These objects didn't amp him, they fed him some of the energy he had lost and he was still much weaker than usual after feeding on them. He states that several times throughout the story. Heck, at the very end he states that even after feeding on Mordru and the Time Trapper he was still weaker than his prime self.

No Caption Provided

Furthermore Highfather, Darkseid's absolute equal, was shown to be as powerful as Darkseid himself at the end of the Saga. So, even if we were to assume that Darkseid was amped (and I absolutely disagree with that statement), then Highfather himself is stronger than Mordru.

And Highfather is also in this battle, so do the math.

The Great Darkness Saga, while a good story, was pretty confusing to me anyway. I've never seen Darkseid as powerful as he was there and I never really understood too much about his statement of his power "waning over the millennium". I just assumed that he was getting progressively weaker when he fought the Legion in the final battle.

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Ouroborik

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@ouroborik said:
@takenstew22 said:
@ouroborik said:
@takenstew22 said:

@ouroborik: Darkseid was amped when he beat Mordru.

No, he wasn't. He was actually weakened.

No, he wasn't. He let his "servants" out on a mission to bring multiple objects of power to him and he absorbed them. He did these right before he faced Mordru.

(Forgive me if this counts as breaking the new rule)

These objects didn't amp him, they fed him some of the energy he had lost and he was still much weaker than usual after feeding on them. He states that several times throughout the story. Heck, at the very end he states that even after feeding on Mordru and the Time Trapper he was still weaker than his prime self.

No Caption Provided

Furthermore Highfather, Darkseid's absolute equal, was shown to be as powerful as Darkseid himself at the end of the Saga. So, even if we were to assume that Darkseid was amped (and I absolutely disagree with that statement), then Highfather himself is stronger than Mordru.

And Highfather is also in this battle, so do the math.

The Great Darkness Saga, while a good story, was pretty confusing to me anyway. I've never seen Darkseid as powerful as he was there and I never really understood too much about his statement of his power "waning over the millennium". I just assumed that he was getting progressively weaker when he fought the Legion in the final battle.

It's really simple actually.

The Great Darkness Saga was the first time ever in comics that we saw Darkseid directly engaging in combat with other DC characters. So at the time, this was his standard power level. It was only when writers like Dan Jurgens and Jeph Loeb started turning Darkseid into an average galactic conqueror that he started developing the fame of being a jobber. If anything, modern Darkseid is a bad reimagining of the godly GDS Darkseid.

Still, the best New Gods writers have left it pretty clear that those examples of Darkseid jobbing weren't actually performed by the True Darkseid. Every time Apokolips as been portrayed as just an alien planet in regular space, it was just a projection of the True Apokolips and a projection of the True Darkseid. The true New Gods are all gigantic and inhabit a different plane of existence.

The Darkseid in the Great Darkness Saga is most likely whatever is left of True Darkseid reawakening in the 30th Century, after the final battle of the New Gods supposedly killed them all.

That is why it's hard to debate using the New Gods, because there are always people who assume that "space conqueror Darkseid" is the OG Darkseid. But if we want to make these battles interesting, we should be using the New Gods at their prime, AKA, as we see them in the Great Darkness Saga.

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takenstew22

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@takenstew22 said:
@ouroborik said:
@takenstew22 said:
@ouroborik said:
@takenstew22 said:

@ouroborik: Darkseid was amped when he beat Mordru.

No, he wasn't. He was actually weakened.

No, he wasn't. He let his "servants" out on a mission to bring multiple objects of power to him and he absorbed them. He did these right before he faced Mordru.

(Forgive me if this counts as breaking the new rule)

These objects didn't amp him, they fed him some of the energy he had lost and he was still much weaker than usual after feeding on them. He states that several times throughout the story. Heck, at the very end he states that even after feeding on Mordru and the Time Trapper he was still weaker than his prime self.

No Caption Provided

Furthermore Highfather, Darkseid's absolute equal, was shown to be as powerful as Darkseid himself at the end of the Saga. So, even if we were to assume that Darkseid was amped (and I absolutely disagree with that statement), then Highfather himself is stronger than Mordru.

And Highfather is also in this battle, so do the math.

The Great Darkness Saga, while a good story, was pretty confusing to me anyway. I've never seen Darkseid as powerful as he was there and I never really understood too much about his statement of his power "waning over the millennium". I just assumed that he was getting progressively weaker when he fought the Legion in the final battle.

It's really simple actually.

The Great Darkness Saga was the first time ever in comics that we saw Darkseid directly engaging in combat with other DC characters. So at the time, this was his standard power level. It was only when writers like Dan Jurgens and Jeph Loeb started turning Darkseid into an average galactic conqueror that he started developing the fame of being a jobber. If anything, modern Darkseid is a bad reimagining of the godly GDS Darkseid.

Still, the best New Gods writers have left it pretty clear that those examples of Darkseid jobbing weren't actually performed by the True Darkseid. Every time Apokolips as been portrayed as just an alien planet in regular space, it was just a projection of the True Apokolips and a projection of the True Darkseid. The true New Gods are all gigantic and inhabit a different plane of existence.

The Darkseid in the Great Darkness Saga is most likely whatever is left of True Darkseid reawakening in the 30th Century, after the final battle of the New Gods supposedly killed them all.

That is why it's hard to debate using the New Gods, because there are always people who assume that "space conqueror Darkseid" is the OG Darkseid. But if we want to make these battles interesting, we should be using the New Gods at their prime, AKA, as we see them in the Great Darkness Saga.

Thanks for the info. DC's continuity is way more complex and confusing than Marvel's (which is why I usually prefer Marvel more), so I don't have that much clue on how some of the power levels are supposed to truly be. Some writers have a different interpretation of the characters and either will give them god-like feats or have them beaten by mere high tiers. I always just assumed Darkseid was Thanos level in base form but it appears that his true form is there all along? I thought by reading Final Crisis and Jack Kirby''s Fourth World it would give me better information on Darkseid and the New Gods, but it still left me with some answers.

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Ouroborik

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@takenstew22: Having read Jack Kirby's Fourth World, Final Crisis and the Great Darkness Saga you already have most of the material where the New Gods are consistently portrayed as, well, Gods.

Other than that I can recommend you Walt Simonson's Orion run and the New Gods run written by Rachel Pollack and later John Byrne. Those are definitely the New Gods stories that stay most faithful to Jack Kirby's writing, even if they don't really provide a clear answer to the powerscaling problems. Walt Simonson is pretty much Jack Kirby 2.0, he really captures Kirby's imagination and sense of cosmic wonder.

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takenstew22

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@takenstew22: Having read Jack Kirby's Fourth World, Final Crisis and the Great Darkness Saga you already have most of the material where the New Gods are consistently portrayed as, well, Gods.

Other than that I can recommend you Walt Simonson's Orion run and the New Gods run written by Rachel Pollack and later John Byrne. Those are definitely the New Gods stories that stay most faithful to Jack Kirby's writing, even if they don't really provide a clear answer to the powerscaling problems. Walt Simonson is pretty much Jack Kirby 2.0, he really captures Kirby's imagination and sense of cosmic wonder.

Thanks. I read a few collection of issues of Walt Simonson's run on Thor so I might like his story. I'll try to check them out sometime.

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Asgard. Gorr, Odin and Surtur carry.

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asgardianweapon

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Not sure on this, don´t know the feats of team 1 very well, but can present an argument for team 2

Ansering some people on this thread:

Loki matched powers with early surfer and both the latter and Strange were impressed by his power, Surfer even said that Loki could destroy the planet.Loki also hurt Beta Ray, Masterson and Thor (individualy ) when they fought and even fought more than one of them at time.

Bot he and Thor can somewhat hang with Skyfathers, having a good track of at least giving some trouble/time/surviving. In Loki´s case: Mefisto, Dormannu,Surtur, turned Bor in snow... (maybe more) and Thor has fought Glory (an alien pantheon on the same body), Mefisto, Odin (stomped by, but has fought the living enbodiment of the odin force and survived and i think he defetead it...), fought some times and i think i remember him fighting Zeus for a month... etc.

Hela is a little bit more powerfull than Thor

Ymir only has scailing on his side and Surtur,Odin are maybe the most powerfull on the team.

Destroyer and Gorr are good, but not so much between Thor/Loki and Odin,Surtur an Ymir

However if the other users are right team 1 prob wins the majority

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wwe234

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@asgardianweapon: What other users ? even the guy who debated well for new gods even said t2 wins

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deactivated-5d59ee082aecf

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Team 2

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Hypnos0929

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Darkseid and Yugah Khan are wild cards here. The ability to absorb power and add it to ones own makes a fighter very dangerous. Teen Darkseid went from getting smashed by Zeus to killing Zeus in a single fight. Even if he's well below Odin, which I don't think he's miles behind, if he can do the same and steal power as he fights the bigger names then he might have a great chance of leading his team.

Yugah Khan is also difficult to gauge, he did fight the Wizard Shazam and seemed to be winning that gives him a ton of cred imo.

But until I know more about takion, Ymir, and high father's individual feats I'll be undecided. And Lol at anyone soloing

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MyGod000

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Darkseid and Highfather stomps. Team 1 wins, no one on team 2 is soloing anything that is just blind bias speaking.

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asgardianweapon

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@wwe234: oh yea sorry, i somehow missed that, must be the nights awake bc of the college

I find it very funny that by average when darkseid fights other beings he is very powerfull but when he fights superman the writers do some bullshit to him win

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Supermanthor

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green_skaar

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Odin hops in Destroyer and holds necrosword and solos

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Supermanthor

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ManOfManyNames2

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Gorr and Surtur carry.

Marvel Skyfathers > majority of The New Gods.