New 52 Martian Manhunter Vs Current Jean Grey

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del_torro

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Poll New 52 Martian Manhunter Vs Current Jean Grey (44 votes)

The Martian 50%
The Mutant 50%

Battle takes place with the both of them sitting at the opposite ends of a cafe.

both are in character.

telepathy only.

Bonus:

Pretty 52 Martian Man Hunter Vs Jean Grey (with feats from her teenage self)

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TheWatcherKing

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#1  Edited By TheWatcherKing

Pretty 52?

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del_torro

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@TheWatcherKing: lol, mean Pre 52 Martian Manhunter. I'll Edit it.

What do you think about the battles, who wins?

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del_torro

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NOTE

The Bonus Scenario is Jean Vs Pre 52 Martian Manhunter

Argh, can't Edit a Poll.

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TheWatcherKing

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#4  Edited By TheWatcherKing

@del_torro: I back Jean tbh,in terms of telepathy she seems more impressive than MMH. Although Jean's teen self doesn't add much in the bonus round.

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deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4

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Pretty 52

how pretty are we talking about? I mean 52 is a pretty big number

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The_Wotan

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@del_torro: I back Jean tbh,in terms of telepathy she seems more impressive than MMH. Although Jean's teen self doesn't add much in the bonus round.

Actually she does, she has certain hax abilities which make her an important addition like the ability to drain Psionic Energy from surroundings and other people either normal or psionically powered, and as we know Psionic Energy is the source of MMH's power, so yeah that's basically saying like she can depower him or at least weaken him.

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@the_wotan: When teen Jean uses it no one ever seems weakened by it,so I wouldn't really assume MMH will be.

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darthjhawk

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#8 darthjhawk  Moderator

Wait is this Post Crisis or N52?

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del_torro

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@_kingoflatveria: Pretty 52 isn't too much, Jean is Omega level pretty (infinite!).

So, who wins?

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del_torro

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@TheWatcherKing: I figured the draining wouldn't hurt him, but she'd have access to more energy for her psychic attacks in the fight

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del_torro

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@Darthjhawk: New 52 for the main fight. PC for the Bonus round.

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The_Wotan

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When teen Jean uses it no one ever seems weakened by it,so I wouldn't really assume MMH will be.

It weakened Gladiator (whose main power source is psionic energy), to the point Jean could go toe to toe with her on physical battle, for someone like Jean who is a bit low when it comes to phsycial force even in energy form to take on Gladiator in physical combat is unreal, but if weakened to a specific point it can and has become possible.

It weakened even the mighty Galactus to the point her blasts could stagger him.

So far she has decently weakened people when she had absorbed their psionic forces, so overall MMH is not gonna be an exception here, so even if assume that it won't "weaken" him, it will definitely affect the quality of his psionic powers.

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The_Wotan

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I figured the draining wouldn't hurt him, but she'd have access to more energy for her psychic attacks in the fight

Of course It wouldn't hurt him of course, because draining is not inherently damaging/hurting type ability, it's ability to absorb energy in simplistic terms, the side-effect of it can weaken/depower the opponent due to lack of power source.

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TheWatcherKing

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#14  Edited By TheWatcherKing

@the_wotan said:
@thewatcherking said:

When teen Jean uses it no one ever seems weakened by it,so I wouldn't really assume MMH will be.

It weakened Gladiator (whose main power source is psionic energy), to the point Jean could go toe to toe with her on physical battle, for someone like Jean who is a bit low when it comes to phsycial force even in energy form to take on Gladiator in physical combat is unreal, but if weakened to a specific point it can and has become possible.

It weakened even the mighty Galactus to the point her blasts could stagger him.

So far she has decently weakened people when she had absorbed their psionic forces, so overall MMH is not gonna be an exception here, so even if assume that it won't "weaken" him, it will definitely affect the quality of his psionic powers.

It didn't seem to weaken him at all, it's been stated that she uses said ability to amp up her TK. In other words, Jean is amped when she does it, she doesn't weaken others as far as I can tell.

No Caption Provided

Galactus was starving, and Jean drew power from him,the phoenix force, the people on the alien world, and Terrax. It seemed to me she was merely heavily amped, and Galactus judt felt it would be better to retreat. Nothing suggested to me that he was weakened by Jean.

I will say it will help her, since Jean can amp herself to her above average levels. But nothing says she weakens people when she does use her ability.

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blackpantherisb

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MMH both rounds.

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comic_book_fan

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jean.

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Stalin-Is-Steel

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52 could lose, I'd give a slight majority to Jean. Pre 52 Manhunter would beat Jean pretty easy through.

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del_torro

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okay, some people are picking Jean for both rounds, some picking MMH, anyone want to give reasons, compare their feats etc?

@comic_book_ fan: @thewatcherking: reasons for why jean wins?

@blackpantherisb: @stalin-is-steel: reasons why MMH wins?

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darthjhawk

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#19 darthjhawk  Moderator

If someone wants to debate for Jean I can try and make a case for J’onny

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TheWatcherKing

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If someone wants to debate for Jean I can try and make a case for J’onny

Any reason that you think MMH wins?

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Stalin-Is-Steel

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#21  Edited By Stalin-Is-Steel

@del_torro said:

okay, some people are picking Jean for both rounds, some picking MMH, anyone want to give reasons, compare their feats etc?

@comic_book_ fan: @thewatcherking: reasons for why jean wins?

@blackpantherisb: @stalin-is-steel: reasons why MMH wins?

Well pre 52 Manhunter means that he gets his post Crisis feats and his Pre Crisis ones as well. Manhunter can read minds throughout the galaxy, telepathically tricked Grodd into defeating himself (Grodd defeated Superman and froze a speedster in place with his TP)

Also, his TP defences protected him from nine amped White Martians, despite the fact that they were stated to be amped by a "millionfold" (two of them without this amp were able to control half a million people and could control people with very high willpower and TP defences, like Kyle Rayner)

Hell, even the Specter couldn't get through his defences, despite attacking J'onn with fire while doing so. Mindwiping the entre JLA (including Batman, Plastic Man, Flash and Wonder Woman)

There's no reason why J'onn can't beat Jean in the second round. He's simply better.

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#22 darthjhawk  Moderator

@thewatcherking: As far as I know Post Crisis J’onn is better overall imo and faster as well. He’s also fought and defeated Telepaths just as powerful as him and if not through sheer power, with telepathic skill instead.

I don’t know how Post-Flaspoint stacks up because I don’t have an intimate knowledge of Jeans abilities that’s why I said if someone was willing to try and make a case of someon was willing to put up something for Jean.

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TheWatcherKing

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@thewatcherking: As far as I know Post Crisis J’onn is better overall imo and faster as well. He’s also fought and defeated Telepaths just as powerful as him and if not through sheer power, with telepathic skill instead.

I don’t know how Post-Flaspoint stacks up because I don’t have an intimate knowledge of Jeans abilities that’s why I said if someone was willing to try and make a case of someon was willing to put up something for Jean.

I can, which is why I asked. If you can post some of his feats I can try to bring up some feats that match/beat them.

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del_torro

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@stalin-is-steel: only post crisis feats for MMH in the bonus round.

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Pre 52 MMH from what time? Pre 52 could be the time between post crisis to 52 or it could be even before crisis?

Be more specific mate.

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@del_torro: All the feats I stated were from Post Crisis anyway. I was being courteous with my arguments.

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#27 darthjhawk  Moderator

@thewatcherking: Got it. I’m away from my laptop atm but if you’re still interested in this when I get back this evening I’ll post.

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R1: Jean in a close fight

R2: Depends on if Jean can absorb MMH's psychic energy or not. If she can't, MMH wins.

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@thewatcherking: Got it. I’m away from my laptop atm but if you’re still interested in this when I get back this evening I’ll post.

Alright.

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del_torro

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@Stalin-Is-Steel: yeah, I just saw that you mentioned both Post and Pre crisis, just wanted to specify that it's Post crisis

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The_Wotan

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#32  Edited By The_Wotan

@thewatcherking:

It didn't seem to weaken him at all, it's been stated that she uses said ability to amp up her TK.

In other words, Jean is amped when she does it, she doesn't weaken others as far as I can tell.

Read your sentence once again, because it contains basic logical flaws, which, no offence intended, but are a bit laughable from basic notions honestly.

So tell me, since when being drained doesn't mean being weakened, those 2 factors are ALWAYS interconnected, most of the basic instances showcase that cut and clear and you know that very well, so let's not pretend that it is something out of world, especially when it comes to flying brick type characters i guess by your own logical standpoint if Superman for example was drained from solar energy that wouldn't weaken him as well, that's nothing other than ignoring basical logic.

Yes, it does amp her TK, which is of course kinda obvious, if for example Parasite drains others it would make him stronger as well, basically by explanative means it clarifies that it is simply an after-effect of draining other's abilities, which as a reaction can enhance the user's own abilities, this notion doesn't contradict nor negate other effects, like you are trying to imply here.

Now it didn't weaken him? Seriously? Lol, let's see what we have got here, we have Gladiator, whose powers are literally coming from Psionic Energy, that's undisputable part of his character, then we have Jean Grey character with psionic abilities and in this case we reference her psionic draining abilities, doesn't take a genius to understand that someone who gets drained from his main source of power would cause a drastic effect on his power performance, so let's not pull those silly mental gymnastics here.

So overall we have a character who even in her energy form is not even a 40 tonner taking on 1.000.000 tonner in physical combat, now use your logic here, by basic notions she should have gotten defeated by simplistic means, yet it was the opposite, so definitely Gladiator being drained from his main source of power, affected his power-level flux.

Galactus was starving,

He is always starving, that's part of his character. But there was no statement, that he was on VERY LOW TERMS, like you are trying to imply here of course, he was on average level since nothing implied otherwise, plus prior to Teen Jean instance, he heavily drained and ate Phoenix Force Jean's energies, thus the whole he was "starving" notion is already taken aside, by these simplistic factors.

and Jean drew power from him,the phoenix force, the people on the alien world, and Terrax.

Correct.

Except Phoenix Force doesn't count here that much in our context, because Big G nearly drained her dry and almost killed her before Teen Jean intervened.

It seemed to me she was merely heavily amped, and Galactus judt felt it would be better to retreat.

Yes, she was amped, but tell me do you think that some psionic energy of people who are not even that psionically advanced (which means low amount of boost in form of psionic drain), combined with Terrax's energy (who is all about Power Cosmic, not Psionic Energy, while Jean can only and ONLY drain Psionic Energy), and some little tiny fraction PF energy (Psionic part of it, not the cosmic one) could harm Galactus who fed on most of PF energy and transformed in into his own Power Cosmic......anyone with basic understanding would disagree on that part really.

Of course she also tapped into Big G's power as well, but as we know he is all about Power Cosmic as well, not Psionic Energy, so while there would be certain boost of course, but not that much compared to draining his Power Cosmic, certainly not enough to make Galactus run away from combat, unless of course he didn't get weaker.

Nothing suggested to me that he was weakened by Jean.

Right, because being drained doesn't mean getting weaker, by this same logic it is no different than saying that if you turn a 130 watt lightbult into 80 watt lightbult (by turning down/draining some of the energy input), it would work the same way with same energy output with same amount illumination, sounds very logical, right? Lol.

Plus i guess any mid-tier with a small amp can now magically make Big G run away from battle, lol.

I will say it will help her, since Jean can amp herself to her above average levels.

Of course, she is essentially tranfering enemy's power to her, simple as that.

But nothing says she weakens people when she does use her ability.

Again, the Superman analogy here, if you are drained from main source of your power, it would affect your power pefromance, that is quite a simplistic notion.

It's essentially a battery comparison - imagine if your battery was drained from 100% to let's say 60%, saying that it won't affect the pefromance of your technology would be fundamentally wrong.

Though i was kinda surprised that you tried to pull the argument that being drained won't affect one's power-level, lol, first time seeing such type of stipulations really.

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@the_wotan: Not responding to your whole post, but while you're right what I said hasn't been countered. All I am saying is whenever uses the ability no one has made a comment of being weakened or appeared to be. I was thinking thinking she didn't take a lot when she activates her ability but I guess that would still be draining.

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Supermanthor

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I think Jean can win in a telephatic battle

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I would like to say Jean for the Win. But I am Ignorant to New 52 MMH Telepathy Feats. What has he done???

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#37 PyroFN  Online

Round One: In general, after looking at a respect thread of him in his New-52 version, he seems around an Omega Class Telepaths level, but I’m backing Jean, though she will have a bit of a fight on her hands.

Bonus Round: Again, from what I’ve seen of a respect thread of Martian Manhunter Pre-New-52, he is about on par with an Omega Class Telepath in power, but I’ve yet to properly see anything on the skill end that would say he could contend with the Omega Class Telepaths. He has a lot of outliers too, ranging from galaxy levels to reading realities. That said, Jean has those kinds of outliers too, so we are ignoring it.

That said, Pink Form hax is too op for Manhunter to deal with. It doesn’t just amp her telekinesis. It amps her telepathy as well based on Teen Jean soloing the Hive Mind of the Poisons in the Venomized event.

Jean wins both rounds.

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Round 1- Martian Manhunter in new 52 is very powerful, but he very little skill feats and the skill feats that he has don’t compare to that of Xavier, Jean, and Emma. Because of that I’m going for Jean.

Round 2- If it wasn’t for pink form, I’d go for Manhunter

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Jean

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Punyaamrit

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Jean since this is new 52

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Current jean may win due to the knull fear, it was half decent I guess.

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del_torro

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I don't know pretty much about New 52 MMH so I'm going with Jean.

If he has his pre 52 feats he should stomp though.