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#51 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (13642 posts) - - Show Bio

Danny stomps... he fodderizes people that Matt has traditionally struggled with. IE hand foot soldiers.

That is a different sect of the hand mind you.

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#52 Posted by highaccuser (31505 posts) - - Show Bio

Danny's feats aren't as sexy or even clear cut, and aren't against as large groups of fodder (from where I am at episode 8 anyway), but they are honestly just better. Also he and his opponents break wood with decent frequency and I don't think Matt can do that, though to be fair I don't know how tough those sorts of wood would be.

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#53 Posted by Arcus1 (24232 posts) - - Show Bio

Danny's feats aren't as sexy or even clear cut, and aren't against as large groups of fodder (from where I am at episode 8 anyway), but they are honestly just better. Also he and his opponents break wood with decent frequency and I don't think Matt can do that, though to be fair I don't know how tough those sorts of wood would be.

There's a nice scene for that coming

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#54 Edited by highaccuser (31505 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1: I saw that mentioned earlier this thread.

I will say Danny's consistency is questionable, he thought he needed to be cautious against those three fodder Ward sent at him and nearly lost to that goon in the hospital (and I don't think that guy was meant to be above average when his only job was burning stuff).

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#55 Edited by Arcus1 (24232 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1: I saw that mentioned earlier this thread.

I will say Danny's consistency is questionable, he thought he needed to be cautious against those three fodder Ward sent at him and nearly lost to that goon in the hospital (and I don't think that guy was meant to be above average when his only job was burning stuff).

Eh, I think when you've got a solitary guy who can apparently fight, it's safe to assume that person's meant to be better than average

He's not always consistent (same for any character), but it is relatively consistent that his ability to fight is tied to his mental state, which can fluctuate from turmoil to perfect focus

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#56 Posted by DSTREET45 (3663 posts) - - Show Bio

Danny's feats aren't as sexy or even clear cut, and aren't against as large groups of fodder (from where I am at episode 8 anyway), but they are honestly just better. Also he and his opponents break wood with decent frequency and I don't think Matt can do that, though to be fair I don't know how tough those sorts of wood would be.

Snapped a 2x4 back in Season 1 which IIRC is pretty hard to do.
Snapped a 2x4 back in Season 1 which IIRC is pretty hard to do.

I've finished the series and I think that while Danny will likely win, Matt can still contend. Without Danny being able to use the Iron Fist, I think Matt has better striking power on average. IIRC Matt also has the better pain tolerance tough not by a particularly big margin as I had previously thought when going through the series. Danny is more skilled so I'd give him the edge there. Not sure about speed but I'll give it to Danny for now. I'd say that both had dodged bullets but Danny's feat was more clear cut on being actual bullet-timing. Both are pretty fast in combat but it took Daredevil 2 seasons to fight an army of skilled opponents without much trouble while Danny was doing that for pretty much half of the season.

As for the Hand leaders = Nobu sentiment, right now I think that Nobu is likely better than most of them. Even if I just focus on one of his fights and ignored every other, he still seemed more impressive IMO. Being able to flip Matt then immediately following with a punch to the face, while he's still in mid-air no less, that ragdolled him is pretty impressive. Don't remember the Russian Brothers or the Bride of the Nine Spiders doing something like that in terms of speed, strength and timing.

Overall I say Danny wins in a solid fight.

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#57 Posted by highaccuser (31505 posts) - - Show Bio

@dstreet45: Forgot that...that would actually be better than the feats I mentioned (I think) so fair enough.

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#58 Posted by rogueshadow (24478 posts) - - Show Bio

I think that the Yakuza woman who showed up in Daredevil also showed up in Iron Fist, so those guys the Hatchet gang moved in on were actually the same group Daredevil and Elektra were fighting. If I'm right, it's worth pointing that out because we saw some of the Hatchet gang beat them up in close quarters and Colleen stomped one as well.

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#59 Posted by Peterrubiohard (592 posts) - - Show Bio

Iron Fist is better than Daredevil, but Matt can face Danny.

This is how it happens in 616, it will probably be the same way on Netflix.

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#60 Posted by FirestormFate1919 (3981 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Danny's got this pretty locked down. He definitely has the speed advantage due to bullet-timing > arrow-timing. I'd say he probably has strength as well, though this isn't a particularly decisive advantage. He should have agility, as while Matt's was impressive Danny's was pretty superhuman. Matt seems like he can take more of a beating though, it took quite a bit to knock him out. I don't see Matt's senses being that substantial an advantage, so I see Danny having the advantage from a physical standpoint mainly due to a decent speed advantage.

When it comes to skill, I just have to give it to Danny. It's hard to say since Daredevil's fight scenes blew Iron Fist's out of the water (some historically good vs some often really bad choreography), but I felt like Danny was clearly depicted at a higher level. Danny beat some of the best The Hand had to offer during that challenge, and was clearly well-above Bakudo (The leader of the Hand). I assume logically at least Bakudo should be better than Nobu. Despite them being different factions, if they have similar levels of fodder, Danny seemed to have far more ease with The Hand. It's certainly difficult to compare the two, but based on their respective interactions with The Hand, Danny seemed much more formidable.

When you combine the skill advantage and the speed advantage, I think Danny has this wrapped up.

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#61 Posted by killraven4334 (1104 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity: the whole Hand situation is very confusing. It seemed in daredevil that Gao and the Hand were separated as nobu represented the hand and Gao a different entity. So you might be right, but I feel like they are trying to say they were both hand the whole time

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#62 Edited by thehoopergames (24 posts) - - Show Bio

@ithemanwithoutfeari: we're not talking about the comics

Danny gets his butt kicked every episode by people that daredevil whoops all the time ( multiple at once even)

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#63 Edited by rogueshadow (24478 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm still going with Iron Fist.

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#64 Posted by BruceRogers (10684 posts) - - Show Bio
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#65 Edited by HeroUp2112 (12564 posts) - - Show Bio

@thehoopergames said:

@ithemanwithoutfeari: we're not talking about the comics

Danny gets his butt kicked every episode by people that daredevil whoops all the time ( multiple at once even)

When did Danny lose, or nearly lose, even one fight (except that complete PIS fight at the very end)?

For the record though, I think Danny would edge out more victories that Matt (most likely), they'd all be pretty close fights.

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#66 Posted by Thorthunder98 (4253 posts) - - Show Bio

Iron Fist

He was rarely tagged much compared to the same people Daredevil fights and has never been beaten or looked to struggle in a fight except Zhou cheng who he still beat

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#67 Posted by uugieboogie (11966 posts) - - Show Bio
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#68 Posted by FirstOlympian (694 posts) - - Show Bio

Did anyone else not notice his reaction to dodging a thrown hatchet? Danny is fast but I don't think he was a bullet timer.

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#69 Posted by Iragexcudder (9240 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil is so much more impressive it's not even funny. I wasn't impressed with Danny's skill at all, Daredevil was smoking Hand ninjas left and right and Danny fails to one shot fodder. His destructive capability is awesome but daredevil just edges him

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#70 Posted by Slim_Summers (44 posts) - - Show Bio

Are people really that impressed by the episode 6 gauntlet? Matt or nobu would have cleared that without a doubt. In fact Matt would have done better because he would have sensed the poison in round 2.

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#71 Posted by Slim_Summers (44 posts) - - Show Bio

@killraven4334: Matt only struggled with them while they were basically invisible to him. As soon as he learned how to "see" them they were easy fodder for him. IF got rocked in the copy room and on the truck by average goons

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#72 Edited by DSTREET45 (3663 posts) - - Show Bio

@slim_summers said:

@killraven4334: Matt only struggled with them while they were basically invisible to him. As soon as he learned how to "see" them they were easy fodder for him. IF got rocked in the copy room and on the truck by average goons

Danny was snuck from behind by the guy wearing brass knuckles in the file room and the guy in the truck wasn't a random average goon.

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#73 Posted by NewWorldOrder (1776 posts) - - Show Bio

Danny

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#74 Edited by NightSky86 (191 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm on episode 8 of Iron Fist and so far I haven't seen anything that puts Danny ahead of Matt in skill, he struggled to beat those two Hand guys in that blood circle and I've just finished watching him getting clowned by that Drunken Fist user before eventually getting the hard fought win. Matt's showings against Nobu and the Hand just impress me moore- in skill and damage soak/overall durability, Danny is outclassed, granted I'm going to comment again after I've finished the series, but so far this fight is going to Daredevil

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#75 Edited by mrmonster (5056 posts) - - Show Bio

Iron Fist

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#76 Posted by TrueMoonchilde (1870 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil. Faster, super senses, more skilled. Without Chi, Danny wont last long.

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#77 Posted by DarKnight117MC_ (319 posts) - - Show Bio
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#78 Posted by Contempris (16 posts) - - Show Bio

The Choreographer of Iron Fist needs to be fired and the actor couldn't fight for beans. Daredevil waxes Danny. All Iron Fist fans should be angry.

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#79 Edited by HellionVulcan (5724 posts) - - Show Bio

Danny would win after a good fight as he wouldn't outright stomp unless he had chi.

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#80 Posted by webinyoureye11 (2470 posts) - - Show Bio

Danny wins. Because he's the Iron Fist, he never loses... Lol

But seriously, I think without the red suit, Matt loses a lot of durability as well as striking power. While Matt is arguably faster than, I think danny is too skilled.

I feel that Matt, very much like Batman, uses stealth in most of his fights. Especially against gun wielders. Not to mention he also uses either kali sticks, or his billy club. So he fights smart, and uses the enviroment as well as his senses to his advantage. A lot of this is minimized here(I don't see Matt ricocheting anything here)

Danny on the other hand is always unarmed, going against blades and greater numbers most of the time. Also doing it with no stealth or advantages. He was the weapon. Hence he had no problem strolling into a duel with what he said were the hands best fighters.

This would be a very close fight. I want to say Danny wins the majority because logically, the writers wouldn't write something in the script that isn't a representation of their intentions. So Danny handling that gauntlet should count for something.

I'm gonna say this is too close to call for now

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#81 Posted by Contempris (16 posts) - - Show Bio

Seriously, what did any of you see that was impressive from Danny? Those fights were awful fam, for real. Maybe it didn't help that I watched Ip man afterwards then the Daredevil biker scene followed by the warehouse fight from bvs. This show was awful and the fights were worse.

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#82 Posted by webinyoureye11 (2470 posts) - - Show Bio

@contempris: you can't judge just choreography due to limitations in budget and the actors own martial art prowess.

Danny handled fodder with ease, and just like Matt, went up against the hand. Matt had a suit and club, Danny always fought with his fists. And while their aren't any feats for the people he's faced, it's not a stretch to think they are at the very least comparable to matts opponents due to being in the same organization.

Not to mention Danny said the "grand duel" was against the hands best fighters. why would the writers have him say that for no reason?

He also dodged and deflected a bullet. So I'm not sure what makes you think he was unimpressive

Sure other fights scenes are better in terms of pacing and choreography, but that shouldn't reflect on the fictional characters the writers want to portray as skillful

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#83 Posted by TinyFord (467 posts) - - Show Bio

Black suit.... danny ftw

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#84 Posted by Contempris (16 posts) - - Show Bio

@webinyoureye11: It's unimpressive boss and don't even come here lying. Batman was a bullet timer in 89. This is nothing new in street levelers. You are blaming budget issues. These series are making more money than God. Money wasn't the problem and besides choreography isn't exactly expense. Trust me, I work in hollywood. This was an embarrassment. Now everyone is doing damage control. Daredevil stomps.

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#85 Posted by AlmightyAmortal (818 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil. His superior senses and numerous feats put him above Danny without his chi enhanced fist.

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#86 Posted by buildhare (6540 posts) - - Show Bio

@contempris:

It's unimpressive boss and don't even come here lying. Batman was a bullet timer in 89. This is nothing new in street levelers. You are blaming budget issues.

Regardless of whether or not you think it is impressive when considering all other street levellers in fiction, it is impressive compared to MCU Daredevil.

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#87 Posted by Contempris (16 posts) - - Show Bio

Nope. The actor and stunt men in DD can throw a properly chambered kick and probably have the best boxing form besides B Jordan in Creed. Stop being an apologist. Iron Fist was trash.

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#88 Posted by BruceRogers (10684 posts) - - Show Bio

You know when people cant make a case when they start falling back on choreography

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#89 Posted by Contempris (16 posts) - - Show Bio

You know people can't make a case when they try to force comic feats into a show that was too lazy to do it right. You know they should have gotten Bradley James Allan. Or someone like him. Don't even come here and tell lies fam, it's part of the reason Nolan's Batman does so poorly. You can't make this show good, no amount of fanwanking can save this back alley abortion.

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#90 Edited by webinyoureye11 (2470 posts) - - Show Bio

@contempris: I see. So other than choreography, you have no case to stand on. Continue in your beliefs then

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#91 Posted by RBT (15298 posts) - - Show Bio

Matt takes this. Similarly skilled, better physicals.

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#92 Posted by HeroUp2112 (12564 posts) - - Show Bio

While I certainly think Danny would win this, this would be no easy fight.

Danny is more skilled by a good bit, but Matt is not only skilled in his own right, his durability is through the ROOF.

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#93 Posted by Iragexcudder (9240 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm sure they'll fight in defenders. If they don't at least once I'll be triggered

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#94 Posted by thehoopergames (24 posts) - - Show Bio

@heroup2112: after actually finishing the show I think Danny will but as for my explanation

Matt has taken on multiple goons and ninjas and thoroughly beat them

Danny was having trouble against a camp of teenager

However if the guts in the trial are on nobu's level than Danny crushes daredevil without much effort

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#95 Posted by Arcus1 (24232 posts) - - Show Bio

@heroup2112: after actually finishing the show I think Danny will but as for my explanation

Matt has taken on multiple goons and ninjas and thoroughly beat them

Danny was having trouble against a camp of teenager

However if the guts in the trial are on nobu's level than Danny crushes daredevil without much effort

What makes you think he was having trouble? Seemed to be handling them just fine. And remember, all those "teenagers" (and adults) were trained in martial arts, to get into the camp they had to be respectably proficient, and then they learned even more while there

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#96 Posted by Thor_Parker82 (13105 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil pretty easily because of superior senses. Iron Fist was underwhelming without chi.

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#97 Posted by thehoopergames (24 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1: yeah I guess so

I guess what it cones down to is that daredevil was more action based

And iron fist was more character and story driven so it's hard to compare.

We'll see for sure in the defenders though!

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#98 Edited by Silverrings (5452 posts) - - Show Bio

They're probably similarly skilled but differently so. They were both trained by experts but while Danny's training was more formal, lasted much longer and was arguably more thorough Matt has more experience fighting various opponents with varying capabilities on the streets of his city. I'd say they're close in most physical attributes, with Danny having a slight edge in speed and/or reactions and Matt having the edge in durability and maybe strength, but it's hard to figure out who would trump who and in what ways. Matt's sense aren't an enormous help in this scenario, but seeing as Danny is without chi here I think I'd lean towards Matt, albeit after a very good fight.

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#99 Posted by zr0c00l (3128 posts) - - Show Bio

@webinyoureye11: It's unimpressive boss and don't even come here lying. Batman was a bullet timer in 89. This is nothing new in street levelers. You are blaming budget issues. These series are making more money than God. Money wasn't the problem and besides choreography isn't exactly expense. Trust me, I work in hollywood. This was an embarrassment. Now everyone is doing damage control. Daredevil stomps.

Then you should know the limitation difference between having charlie cox's stunt double do his fight scenes and having finn jones doing the majority of his own scenes due to not having a mask.

On topic- danny has better feats against similar opponents and should win here not easy but not his max effort either.

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#100 Posted by Contempris (16 posts) - - Show Bio

A point already addressed. There is absolutely no reason they didn't have a mask for him. This show didn't have a budget problem.