Netflix Danny Rand vs CW Oliver Queen

Then why do you keep comparing all the MCU characters to their comic counterparts?

We don't need to hypothesize what they would do because we can see what they did for ourselves. And the feats he has are enough to arguably be the most skilled fighter in the MCU, but hardly to the point that no one could come close to giving him a fight. Feats matter way more than what you think they should do.

...so, you criticize Merlyn for not winning fights, but think Davos, who lost the only fight he was in against another skilled fighter, would beat him? Double standard much? Merlyn gave Darhk a good fight recently anyway, and it's not like all his other feats are somehow now invalid. It just means he kinda reached his prime already while people like Ollie and Sara still had room to grow and surpass him

And no reply as to why you insist Danny's cab flip is so much more unrealistic than Ollie's arrow catching?

So Deathstroke is weak because he lost to Ollie even though Deathstroke has pretty much won against anyone else in the show and same goes for Ollie.

And then Ollie is weak because this is live action and not comics and they must be weaker by default... but your argument for Danny is that he is strong because he is the strongest in the comics and even though most of the people he has beaten have done nothing but lose so we don't even have good measuring points for their actual skill you just assume they are better fighters because IF is supposed to be the strongest in the comics... Come on.

So to sum up, Danny and his opponents = strong based on comics and not feats, Ollie and Deathstroke = weak because this isn't the comics and we ignore their on screen feats lol.

@komboing explain why Danny's is so much incredibly more unrealistic, more than Ollie casually catching arrows despite it being physically impossible for humans

I wouldn't even say Danny is much more skilled than DD, BP or even Black Widow who's trained since a 6 year old girl in the Red Room. Danny in season 2 may imorove but right now he's not the most skilled imo.

@arcus1: no merlyn gave Darhk a good sword fight, not h2h fight, Darhk is clearly superior to Merlyn, and Davos also defeated about 10-15 people in training to become hand fighters, and if we scale them all based on the one guy *forget his name, whoever the kid was from Colleen's class* then they were all decent, either way Davos was stated to be as skilled of a warrior as Danny is by Danny himself, although evidence would suggest not quite.

And as for the backflips, Danny backflipped over a taxi, which is much higher than a 3 foot tall race car -_-

@gotoucanario: Slade was not that skilled without mirakuru... current Oliver would destroy him, they used him to early and made him nowhere near as skilled as Deathstroke should be.

@mtuske: I've listed multiple feats that prove Danny is far superior to Matt -_- and Matt in terms of skill is probably better than Natasha, we don't have feats of BP without being enhanced but most people think Oliver would beat him if he wasn't enhanced and I agree.

@arcus1: also Danny gets about twice as much airtime as the other guy, count.

@gotoucanario: also if I was to go by comics Oliver wouldn't even be able to beat Punisher in h2h, it's not completely based on comics.

It's a combination of comic logic transferred to show, and also feats that I have seen on the show.

@komboing: Natasha plows thru regular humans like Danny and DD fight mostly never even getting tagged. She gets brought down because she ends up with jacked up superhuman. Danny nor Matt have faught anything like them. Nobody has any idea BP capabilities without enhancement so nobody's opinion matters because none of us have ever seen him before enhancement. Danny had good moments, bad moments but no great moments. Widow has had no bad moments. DD had a bunch though.

@komboing:

Their fight also involved h2h and knives after the swords

And what makes the difference between Danny's feat and what I found so much more unrealistic than the difference between Ollie's arrow catching and real arrow catching? I know there's a difference, that's never been the point

It's not like Davos fought them all at the same time. Why couldn't Merlyn do the same? Again, you gotta answer the why

Obviously Davos isn't as good as Danny because Danny beat him. That's the whole point. Being moderately inferior to Danny doesn't help make it impressive that Danny beat him. All there is to go on is his fodder fight, anything else is just circular logic, and while it was impressive, it doesn't put him above Merlyn

R1: Oliver.

R2: Oliver.

R3: Oliver & Adrian.

@komboing: @arcus1: you 2 should CAV to settle this.

No chi, no bow, no gear. Have these 2 fight in a dojo

@arcus1: dude... Merlyn is awful.. if you're gonna use someone at least use someone like Prometheus who is close to Oliver

@mtuske: Natasha is a soldier who trained in normal martial arts

Danny is the Iron fist that trained in one of the cities of heaven -_- and also Natasha is realistic *besides her gadgets*

@komboing: Well that training didn't help him not get beat up in a file room by a thug with brass knuckles or struggle vs a 50 year old Harold. Neither of which would ever trouble Widow. The Red Room girls were taking out spec ops soldiers at 10 years old. Where Danny trained means nothing. Just like the Dragon he "beat"

@mtuske: He has no awareness what so ever and the guy went up behind him and punched him in the head, which would make it harder to fight.

And beating a dragon.. no matter what you say, is still extremely impressive, unless it gets revealed to be a bearded dragon.

@komboing:

That's all the reply you've got? No actual reasons why Davos is so much more impressive than Merlyn? Nothing to address anything else? Ok

@arcus1: Merlyn got beat by Oliver in 20 seconds, this thread is debating Danny vs Oliver, and based on the MAJORITY of answers, Danny is either slightly superior, or far superior to Oliver, Davos was close to Danny, even you said you think Oliver would win in a close fight, now using that logic, do I ACTUALLY need to explain why Davos would beat Merlyn?

@komboing:

I don't care about what other people have said, because it doesn't matter. Facts and well supported arguments matter. Unless all those people had well-reasoned arguments, I couldn't care less what they said

Davos put up a decent fight but he lost to Danny pretty decisively, and losing to Danny isn't somehow way better than losing to Ollie (in a terrible fight where Merlyn just gave up for some reason)

So yeah, that's very weak/flawed logic

@arcus1: Most of them didn't argue, most people said either Danny or Oliver and then left. Either way, Merlyn is nowhere near Danny, Davos or Oliver, I would put Oliver right below Davos

@komboing:

Hence why I couldn't care less what they said

Great circular logic

Dare I ask, why would you put Ollie right below Davos? Are there any reasons other than just saying Ollie must be a bit below Danny, for equally vague reasons?

And were you ever going to explain why Danny is so much more unrealistic than Ollie?

@arcus1: based on the fact that Davos gave Danny a pretty decent fight, I would put Oliver right below Davos, and above Bakuto and about equal with Zhou *Zhou gave Danny a better fight although to be fair Danny if I recall was injured and whenever he gets emotional doesn't fight nearly as well as he could*

Now as to why Danny is more unrealistic, Oliver fights like a normal person, he moves like a normal person, he has the same limitations as any normal person. Danny doesn't.

If you didn't notice that then I'm not sure what show you were watching.

I also would like to clarify about the Darhk thing, because I'm not sure where you stand on this. I think Damien could beat Ras and would come close to Adrian in a h2h fight, and I think Oliver would beat him fairly handily *just wanted to clarify that cause we never actually finished talking about Darhk*

I swear pretty much the only argument being used for Danny in this thread is this:

@komboing:

lol, sure, Ollie has the same limitations as a regular human. That's why he can catch arrows, showing speed that'd be superhuman in the real world. That's why he has strength and durability feats that are above real world limits

Again, since the only unrealistic example you came up with for Danny was jumping, why is that less realistic than catching full speed arrows?

Maybe I should ask for examples? Examples of why Danny is so unrealistic, and WHY they are more unrealistic than Ollie?

@arcus1: Oliver doesn't have superhuman speed, the parkour was one example and Im not even sure how long it took him to get from a building to the next. We also don't know how fast the arrows are fired. But yes I agree that is an unrealistic feat.

And again I keep saying it, I have listed MULTIPLE reasons through the course of this thread and you have just said they don't count or aren't good enough.

When Oliver fights someone who is truly considered on the top of DC's h2h levels, then I would say this is more even, but until then I don't believe he's on Dannys level.

@webinyoureye11: ._.

watch it all

This is what I'm hearing.

@komboing:

It's been stated in show that arrows are around 200mph. You should know that. Why would they be slower than real world arrows (fired at normal speeds from that kind of bow)?

Did you not watch the mythbusters video?

Who cares about standing in the comics?!?! It doesn't matter

But if you insist, he's way better than Black Canary

@arcus1: once again.. Oliver Queen isn't the Green Arrow... he's Batman...he's a martial artist, not an archer.

Danny Rand is the Iron Fist, the best martial artist in Marvel, and it holds through to the MCU, if they wanted to do an actual show about GA, it would be Oliver using ridiculous arrows that aren't logical at all to win, not going in h2h and beating everyone up.

And in case you didn't read my entire post, I said it's an unrealistic feat *impossible is what I meant*

@arcus1: and please don't mention Black Canary, Laurel as Black Siren was just signed as a season regular for S6 and I don't even know if I want to watch it now.

@komboing: Best Martial Artist in Marvel comics but has shown nothing at all to say MCU.

@komboing:

But he is the Green Arrow. Sure, he's not exactly the same as comic Ollie. He's also not exactly the same as comic Batman. He's his own character, a unique version of the Green Arrow, not bound to be exactly like any particular comic character

Again, the comics are irrelevant. There's no point to this. These characters can be evaluated on their own merits

But you're still claiming Danny is more unrealistic/does more impossible stuff, correct? If so, you've never provided any justification for why he's more unrealistic than Ollie

@mtuske: Once again.. Daredevil has been compared to people like Cap and I have shown people time and time again that Danny is far beyond Matt.

@arcus1: because Oliver is still a base human that obeys human physics, catching an arrow doesn't defy physics, it just isn't something a human could react to or do. Jumping as high as Danny did, multiple times, defies physics. You logically cannot do some of the things Danny did. I don't know how many times I can state the same difference over and over.

And the comic standings do matter when the same characters from the comics are brought in *who in the comics are slightly below Danny and far beyond Daredevil* and who in the show are slightly below Danny and beyond Daredevil.

Wait what? Link?

@komboing: Those people would be wrong. Cap outside of Batroc who I would put above Danny never got hit by humans. Danny probably is below Widow, BP and maybe even Hawkeye as I've never seen them have pathetic scenes like Danny. Cap could have solod that whole tournamet at the same time.

@rbt: just look up Arrow on google, it's everywhere, I'm so pissed. The moment she died Arrow became better, and the whole show is gonna go back to being bad next year because all they are gonna focus on is Laurel, and she is by far the most annoying tv character I have ever had the unfortunate pleasure of watching.

@mtuske: Cap widow and Hawkeyes fight soldiers... not high level hand members who get killed if they lose LOL, and Cap is superhuman of course he'd win that tournament. Those people are not as skilled as Danny, Cap is probably slightly more skilled, or as skilled as Matt, and is no as skilled as Oliver either, and neither are Widow, BP and DEFINITELY not Hawkeye

@komboing: Cap fought Ultron, IM, WS and Black Panther lmao. What planet are you on? Widow has fought WS and as a child the loser of all red room fights were killed. Hawkeye fought Black Panther.

@mtuske: none of which could beat Oliver in a pure h2h fight except BP and Cap only because they are superhuman/enhanced. And as I keep stating, Danny>Oliver.

@komboing: Widow was more impressive. Cap fights much more smoothly as does Panther. Danny couldn't even last as long as Hawkeye vs Black Panther. Danny if it wasn't for Jessica Jones with be the most pathetic MCU character out there.

I actually really like her, so I am not even mad. Wonder what happens to Dinah now.

Why is moving faster than any real world human so different from jumping higher than any real world human? Moving and reacting at those speeds defies human physics just as much as jumping that high does. Superhuman reaction time is just as unrealistic as superhuman jumping ability. It's not like regular humans can't jump, or that jumping is some new ability Danny showed.

...I'm guessing a large part of your justification for why these people are far beyond Daredevil would be because they're slightly below Danny. More circular logic.

Justify their standings based on feats from the show. Nothing else matters. These characters have their own showings, use them. At the end of the day, that's all the discussion we need to have on this. If you can't justify why someone like Davos would be at or above Ollie's level based on the showings we've been given, then that's that. If you wanna have an actual discussion, that's how it works

@rbt: I've been speculating that she might die at the end of the season since she showed up, or she'll just leave, we don't need two metas. Although if I have to be honest, I prefer Dinah over Laurel.

@arcus1: I have talked about feats from their show, and Davos almost beating Danny who beat the best the hand had to offer who are better than Nobu by a decent margin puts him above Matt... fairly simple.

And as for Oliver being around Danny's level, based on how I've seen Davos perform against other people I would put Oliver EITHER slightly below him OR at his level, not sure.

@komboing: If Ollie beat Miraku Spade that puts him way over Danny