VERSUS
RULES
- In character but willing to kill
- No preparation
- Neutral conditions
- Both sides start 50 meters away from each other
- Bijuu Sage Mode Teen Naruto vs Natsu with 100 Quests Arc standard feats
- Keep things civil
@woodward: Why do something so pointless? Except u doing it for fun? Then that's okay because, There's no way in hell u're gonna win this even if u give a very good debate.
CAV is pointless on Comic Vine where the majority would just vote for the people they think wins(or the character/verse they like more).
Not to mention ur karma points are really low(especially in the eyes of naruto debaters who believe u betrayed them LOL).
Anyways, I wish u good luck.
@el_directo_: Doing it for fun, and yeah I know what you mean.
Chaos, can you also add on that voting only counts when giving full detail on the reasons. To prevent bias.
@el_directo_: Doing it for fun, and yeah I know what you mean.
Chaos, can you also add on that voting only counts when giving full detail on the reasons. To prevent bias.
Lol I can feel the tension coming from woodward😂
So right off the bat, Natsu's flames are practical one-shot for Naruto. I base my statement based on the image below:
I predict that your counter is: That's KCM Naruto, the one being debated here is stronger form. Well, you're right and wrong. You're wrong in the sense that Naruto's heat resistance has grew with BSM, which is profoundly built upon on the lack of concrete proof.
I'm not saying Naruto was hurt badly by Roshi's lava, but what I'm saying, and what is irrefutably shown is lava's heat is the minimum thing needed to hurt Naruto, even if by little. Using lava as a comparative basis, Natsu's flames are leaps and bounds far hotter.
Before I dig into Natsu's heat potency, let me remind you that both combatants are in character, which means there is already a high probability Naruto will get incinerated in the start. Not only Natsu always spams his big attacks right of the start but Naruto always fights in close range without using his Kurama Avatar. So let's dig into Natsu's heat potency feats:
His first prominent feat is melting the GMG colosseum:
The GMG colosseum isn't your regular arena, as this one is specifically designed to host superhuman mage fighting, meaning it's way more study than your regular arena. For example: the Rome Colosseum is built from 1.1 million tons of stone, concrete and brick. That's Base Natsu instantly melting multi-million tons of rock and metal with the radiation his body's emitting. I don't have to tell you that a named attack is incomprehensibly hotter than passive heat.
His second prominent feat is vaporizing Ajeel's sand:
Sand has a melting point of 1550 C and boiling point of 2230 C (2822 F and 4046 F), but Natsu outright vaporized it which takes far more heat than melting and boiling. This heat potency directly scales to Laxus's lightning, which also vaporized Ajeel's sand later on.Lightning's temperature is 30,000 C (53,540 degrees). It's also important to note that Natsu instantly vaporized a town mass worth of sand, as Ajeel himself stated his pit swallowed towns. This is basically what Base Natsu is capable of radiating passively.
His third and most prominent feat is vaporizing Lake Scillora:
Most calcs I've seen put this feat at island level, although I don't want to get into too many numbers here. The fact of the matter is: to instantly vaporize a lake that size would irrefutably require gigatons worth of energy (specifically heat). Even nuclear bombs that reach a whooping 100,000,000° Celsius would never vape a lake like that.
His heat by EOS also scales massively above Atlas Flames, who is a heat behemoth on his own. Atlas Flames defrosted all of Silver Fullbuster's ice in the Sun Village:
Silver's Devil Slayer Ice isn't your normal ice for following reasons:
Ice's hardness is correlated with its temperature, and Silver's ice as you see is ridiculously cold. Eos Natsu scales above Atlas Flames, since, aside he has better feats than that but has Igneel's powerup, and Igneel's fire >>> Atlas Flames by portrayal.
All of this should do for Natsu's heat potency. Not only Naruto has never ever encountered such monstrous heat potency, but he has been burnt by things that aren't in the realm of Natsu's flames. Just by being in his vicinity he'll be suffering massive skin burns if not outright vaporization (refer to Roshi's lava), but he sure as hell can't survive a named attack from Natsu, which I'll focus on the section below.
Natsu applies his fire into 2 methods:
1). Close quarter combat
2). Long range
One of his strongest and devastating attack is Fire Dragon King's Demolition Fist; I put this technique at solid island level. Let's look what it did:
It blew apart Ikusatsunagi in a one-shot, and that's impressive for following reasons:
1). Ikusatsunagi no-sold Base Natsu's fist prior. Basically no-sold the blunt and heat force from Base Natsu. Base Natsu's has mountain level strengthon top of the fact it proves the War God's body is absurdly harder than steel to no-sell a direct hit from Base Natsu's flame, when Base Natsu's passive heat from tens of meters away can melt steel (heat feats provided above).
2). Ikusatsunagi also no-sold the kinetic energy transfer from his slash that fissured the landscape. We're viewing the slash from an elevation of at least 5km, because the War God itself stands at 2km. Distance to horizon from 5km elevation would be +250km. The War God would have to be as durable as his attack, otherwise we would have seen his arm break of. Simple physics really.
That's Demolition Fist blowing up a 2km giant made of material hilariously and incomprehensibly harder than steel. This is consistent with his Demolition Fist reaching the same height as Aldoron's head:
Aldoron is so massive and huge that just his nails dwarf a mountain range, and his palm carries a city and mountain range on it:
In other words, Natsu's fists can dish out island level worth of flames and blunt force from his fists. This doesn't require him any prep time, and he can spam them while hammering at Naruto with full speed. He can also apply it with his Lightning Slayer Magic to electrocute Naruto to immobilize him following it up with Demolition Fist.
Another thing to take here is the absurd range and AOE his flames travel at. Let's assume Naruto keeps his distance (which he won't), Natsu can still blast him from long range.
This was back in first season whose is significantly weaker than current Natsu. His Roar travelled throughout the Tenrou island proving Natsu has miles worth of AoE, which speaks volume of his range. This is consistent with this panel:
Natsu should be 1.7 meter, so distance to horizon from his elevation and view would be 4.7km. That's basically vaporizing 4.7km of ground and the mountain. Please note this was done accidently, as he purposely hit Zeref and the destruction was residual effect. Natsu can easily increase his AoE if he wanted to. For more feats of his roar:
If Naruto doesn't use his Kurama avatar (which I doubt that he will), he's going to get pounded badly. I believe Natsu has the upper hand in striking strength. I'll work my way up with Natsu's strength feats.
First one being is destroying a massive chunk of Tower of Heaven:
This feat was achieved in early first season. The impact of Natsu punching Jellal to the tower is what caused that much destruction. Obviously if Natsu directly hit the tower, he likely would have levelled the whole structure, and please note this was a heavily injured fatigued Natsu who would perform significantly less than a healthy state. For context on the size of Tower of Heaven.
Next being is casually moving while Bluenote's crushing him with gravity like nothing is happening:
For context on how potent Bluenote's gravity is:
Nevertheless, Natsu would need to have mountain level physicals to casually move under Bluenote's gravity, as this is perfectly consistent with Gildarts who did the same thing as well, with Bluenote also stated that Natsu reminded him of Gildarts and it aligns with the fact Natsu surpassed Gildarts by 2nd post-time skip. And Gildarts has this much casual striking strength.
Finally being Natsu destroying a mountain by simply hitting a fodder to it:
Natsu didn't punch or kick the fodder. He also exerted no effort whatsoever, and the destruction was a result of the fodder being hit to it. This along with feats above solidly puts Base Natsu's striking strength at mountain level. Add on that Dragon Force gives multiplier to Natsu's stats and Natsu's striking strength would easily be in the multi-mountain physicals. If Naruto doesn't resort to his Kurama Avatar, he'll get bodied in close quarter even without accounting for Natsu's imbuing his fists with fire.
Speed is honestly an annoying department to discuss, but I'll establish that Natsu won't get pressured by Naruto's speed in the slightest.
Firstly, he blitzed Jellal twice back in the first season:
Jellal uses Meteor Magic which essentially gives him the speed of meteor as the name suggests. Meteors on average move between Mach 32 to Mach 208. Since Jellal is using magic and not being pulled by gravity, I assume it's the latter which is consistent with the next feat.
Dodging Laxus's lightning from close range:
Laxus's lightning from cloud height intercepted Wall's bullet before it can even move a few meters. Credit goes to @hittheassasin
"For reference, your average bullet can move 5 meters in 0.007 seconds(they move at speeds of 762 meters per second), meaning Laxus' lightning would have to have come down from the clouds in that timeframe to vaporise all of Wall's bullets before they could cover the distance between the two of them. For reference, regular cloud to ground lightning takes about 0.021 seconds to cover the same distance, which would make Laxus' lightning 3 times faster, or about Mach 850. This math also matches up with the fact that low-level clouds manifest at around 2 kilometres above ground level, and Laxus' lightning covering that distance in such a short timeframe would also be around Mach 900. And both Natsu and characters that are equal to his base form dodged this very lightning" -HitTheAssassin
I would say Mach 900 is a lowball for following reasons:
Moreover, Natsu dodged that lightning from close range which puts his speed vastly above 4 digit Mach. This is consistent with Mirajane outspeeding an explosion that literally was stuck at her skin [1 and 2]. Natsu >>> Mirajane.
This should be enough to prove Naruto is not blitzing or pressuring Natsu with his speed.
Naruto has 4 primary offensive arsenal:
I don't think Naruto has the physicals to harm Natsu from what I know about him, but I'll leave that to you.
Blunt force durability:
I should also note the radiation from Natsu's body (since it surrounds his body) would make it impossible for Naruto to even physically hit him. Natsu's fire aura would essentially incinerate Naruto in CQC.Another way Natsu can make CQC impossible is by setting the land on fire.
Defending against Rasenshuriken:
Natsu's fire can negate Rasenshuriken. Reason being is, fire > wind by Naruto elemental hierarchy. Considering we saw Amatersu eat up Rasenshuriken, I see no reason why Natsu's flames don't do the same and negate Rasenshuriken.
And he should be able to tank Rasenshuriken anyways. He no-sold Kiria's blade magic without a scratch. Kiria's blade magic directly scales to Erza's piercing potency feats, as she sparred with Erza on equal grounds. Pre-time skip Erza pierced through the Tartaros Cube island which I would put at solid mountain level because:
Given Natsu no-sold Kiria's which is = Current Erza's cutting force >>> Erza's piercing cube island should solidly prove Natsu can tank Rasenshuriken. But beyond that is he can even dodge it just like Pain did, and he has the speed to do so.
Against Biju Dama:
While I don't believe Natsu can tank it, he should be able to defend against it:
Biju Dama requires a short charge up which leaves Naruto vulnerable. Natsu can intercept that build up with roar making it explode on Naruto's face.
Another way is...dodging it. Yep. Not only Biju Dama from Naruto has no speed feats suggesting it can tag Quad Mach character, but we have seen Hashirama dodging Kurama's TBB and Bee dodging Jubi's TBB. The point I'm making is Biju Dama is simply too linear to tag a fast opponent like Natsu.
Against Shadow Clones:
Natsu's AOE is perfect for crowd control. He can simply set the ground on fire or vape them with a roar.
Either way, numbers are useless here.
For those who asked to be tagged:
Chaos239 Opener is up
@woodward: solid opener
@jcsage: bruh this is 3 years old
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