Nasuverse battles: Saber vs Archer

Saber with Rin as her master

Archer Emiya

They fight in the Einzbern forest

In character.

Round 1 : Close combat

Round 2 : Archer sniper her from long range

Bonus Round : Archer vs Saber Alter.

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I'm assuming no Avalon?

Saber likely all rounds.

Saber murders. EMIYA only stands a chance due to his skills and that will do nothing to an Excalibur or high profile Mana Burst to the face.

Saber one shotted Berserker, and the same Berserker mid diffed Archer.

@con7879: Yes, Avalon is restricted.

@pr03: That was anime-only.

Saber beats the shit out off any 5th and 4th holy grail war servant who is not gilgamesh under rin

even Gil will have to be serious

Saber under rin is no joke

And Assuming Saber Alter is under dark sakura lol archer gets more brutal treatment than berserker herc

@busterbladex: Excalibur can be dodged from close range. Shirou also theorised that Archer might have a countermeasure against Excalibur in HA. And i think you are underestimating Archer's skills. He was able to equally match and kill Berserker 6 times, block several attacks from Saber with Rin as her master when he barely had any mana left and made her accept death with a volley from UBW. HF Shirou was even able to beat Saber Alter and he is inferior to Archer.

@tauio: She beats the shit out of Berserker too?

@crimsonslayer85: Salter already did Artoria under Rin wont be much different all she need is one excaliblast

@tauio: She didn't though. She had help from the shadow. And i doubt one excaliblast would take all of Herc's lives, not to mention it can be dodged at close range.

@crimsonslayer85: Pretty sure that was in VN, Movie one pretty much manhandle herc all by herself at wrost she still having a easy time also iirc it stated Excalibur can take 12 lives in one go and under rind saber can pull multiple unlike Shirou and Iskandar is the only one manage to dodge Excalibur via sacrificing his chariot something herc lacks.then backed by Invisible air and Mana Bust Artoria can sure take 12 lives if needed.

Thats being said its going off topic we should stop here about saber vs herc

R1: probably Saber

R2: probably Archer

Nasu has said in 2006 that either one could win and that it would depend on the masters, personally I lean somewhat towards Archer, with Saber since having gotten some anti-feats like Iskander dodging her Excalibur point-blank, while saving Waver or Saber struggeling to block a few Gate of Babylon projectiles in F/Z when Lancer who Archer can fight has stalemated Gate of Babylon for hours in the Fate route.

Saber has better hype and better stats, as well as a stronger noble phantasm.

Archer is noted to be a versatile, cunning fighter with many different methods, he killed Hercules in six different ways after all. In the VN his projectile also would have killed Hercules if he had not avoided it, unlike in the anime. In contrast Saber is stubborn , honorable and bullheaded, very vulnerable to unusual fighting as seen when Caster's master (although buffed he should still be below a real servant) got the better of her.

Dengeki Hime 02/2006, Type-Moon Double Maniax - [Fate] Dream Battle - Saber vs Archer

"Nasu-san CHECK! The class of the representatives of close-range and long-range combat. Saber, who would take her sword in any condition whatsoever and Archer who would fight using a strategy of victory. The highlight won't just be the different battle styles, but the difference between their personalities. However, even with UBW, it's questionable whether he could hold Saber back in single combat. One definite hit from sniping and one absolute blast of death from her Holy Sword. It might really depend on the wit of their Masters not their own in determining who has the upper hand."

Nasu's statement according to the wiki.

@tauio:

Pretty sure that was in VN, Movie one pretty much manhandle herc all by herself at wrost she still having a easy time

Well, the VN is the primary canon, so we should go with that.

also iirc it stated Excalibur can take 12 lives in one go

I don't recall it being confirmed. When Illya said that Berserker would have been able to die, he had only 5 lives left. The narrator also said that Herc in his current state (6 lives left) wouldn't fall to a mere holy sword, but there was a small chance and therefore he should have waited and fought her in top condition. This implies that Excalibur can't take all of his lives if anything. We also saw in HF that a direct Excaliblast couldn't kill him 12 times.

and under rind saber can pull multiple unlike Shirou

No, it's still very limited. I think it was twice at most.

and Iskandar is the only one manage to dodge Excalibur via sacrificing his chariot something herc lacks

He sacrificed it because he was charging right at Saber and dodged at the last second. The point is that it can be dodged. Gilgamesh also dodged it at the end of Fate/Zero and he isn't very agile.

then backed by Invisible air and Mana Bust Artoria can sure take 12 lives if needed.

Well yes, with a combination of all her resources she might be able to take it, i'm just saying that it won't be that easy.

Thats being said its going off topic we should stop here about saber vs herc

Allright.

@crimsonslayer85: Okay, it can be dodged at close range, that doesn't mean EMIYA is the same as Iskandar and Gilgamesh who are the strongest Servants around.

Gilgamesh can deal with Richard The Lionheart's BS speed and Enkidu. Iskandar was able to fend off GoB attacks. EMIYA had issues with Cu going full blast in his speed and relied explicitly on his skills to not die.

They are not one in the same.

@crimsonslayer85: Nah, even in the LN, Saber Alter virtually takes him down with one good Excalibur shot(he was still alive after that but he was basically done). The LN has it to where he would be down if he didn't have all 12 lives and the HF III movies had it to where she was just doing stronger and stronger Mana Bursts. She only used a TNR Excalibur once.

@rhoynedelta: I would disagree with this as Saber did a damn good job being able to deal with EMIYA's powered up Hrunting shots despite still being on Shirou's Magic Circuits which even after being better is still not Rin's.

I don't really see that truly helping unless it's a full on Caladbolg II shot and she could still Excaliblast it out of the air. I would still say it's more in her favor, especially with Instinct vs. his Hawkeye.

Lancer destroys her!

@busterbladex:

Okay, it can be dodged at close range, that doesn't mean EMIYA is the same as Iskandar and Gilgamesh who are the strongest Servants around.

Gilgamesh can deal with Richard The Lionheart's BS speed and Enkidu. Iskandar was able to fend off GoB attacks. EMIYA had issues with Cu going full blast in his speed and relied explicitly on his skills to not die.

They are not one in the same.

Power =/= speed. Gilgamesh and Iskandar are certainly not leagues beyond Archer in agility, especially the latter.

Iskandar could deflect shots from GOB, but only barely and he still got hit regardless. Archer could survive against someone who survived GOB for 12 hours.

Also, HF Shirou alone could keep up with Saber Alter. Archer could defend himself from Saber at her peak when he barely had any mana left. Saber even said that things would have been different if Archer was in top conditions. And when Archer used UBW, the narrator said that Saber was prepared for her own death against it.

Nah, even in the LN, Saber Alter virtually takes him down with one good Excalibur shot(he was still alive after that but he was basically done). The LN has it to where he would be down if he didn't have all 12 lives and the HF III movies had it to where she was just doing stronger and stronger Mana Bursts. She only used a TNR Excalibur once.

The fact that he was still alive shows that it can't take all of his lives. He was done because he was absorbed by the shadow and ripped off his own skin, probably losing God Hand in the process. Movie is irrelevant.

@baldur_odinson: What? This is Saber vs Archer lol

I totally thought it said Lancer. My bad. Lol.

@baldur_odinson: It's fine. Who do you think would win then?

Honestly a full Caladbolg shot is far from the only thing that is dangerous for Saber, regular attacks or UBW attacks from Archer are still dangerous to her. We have seen Saber when supplied by a proper magus get overwhelmed by Gilles des Rais summons (albeit with a wounded tendon), she was just getting stomped by Hercules at the start of FSN without her using Ecalibur, while Archer had a bunch of unique methods to kill Hercules many times and clashed weapons with him on-cg (while Saber got blatantly overpowered and carved up), she got choked out by a amped master. Iskander who was capable of dodging point blank Excalibur, while carrying a person also had a insufficient master (Waver) while Saber had a more competent one. (Kiritsugu)

When she fought Diarmuid she also pretty much got outskilled and her sword has been caught by Lancelot, while his master was low on mana, so even with a significantly better than Shirou master she is still very far from invulnerable and honestly she relies on Excalibur heavily in lots of fights. After having no master and just using his own mana to use UBW and getting stabbed by Shirou Archer also still survived getting impaled by a dozen of noble phantasms from Gil at once and still survived and even remained in the world through his own mana for quite some time.

We also know that the gap between Shirou Saber and a hypothetical full-charged Saber is not that huge seeing how Medusa could content with either one, dominating Shirou-Saber and contending with false-grail charged Saber Alter. Aside from Clairvoyance, he also has Minds Eye which is comparable to Instinct.

Given that he was Shirou he also knows far more about Saber, her personality and her fighting style than Saber knows about him and he even knows the special sword technique that HF Shirou used to kill Saber Alter in one of the bad ends.

@crimsonslayer85:

Power =/= speed. Gilgamesh and Iskandar are certainly not leagues beyond Archer in agility, especially the latter.

Iskandar could deflect shots from GOB, but only barely and he still got hit regardless. Archer could survive against someone who survived GOB for 12 hours.

Also, HF Shirou alone could keep up with Saber Alter. Archer could defend himself from Saber at her peak when he barely had any mana left. Saber even said that things would have been different if Archer was in top conditions. And when Archer used UBW, the narrator said that Saber was prepared for her own death against it.

Not barely, he actually deflected a good number of shots and legit made it to Gilgamesh who had to use Enkidu to restrain him. The only shots that hit that was meant to be fatal was hit to non-fatal areas.

And again Gilgamesh was able to deal with Richard The Lionheart and Enkidu in F/SF and the latter in Babylonia all the time.

And most importantly, HF Shirou was fully acclimated to Archer's abilities, strength and power at that point and it still took him going brain dead to "kill" her without Medusa's help. Her steeling herself for death is no different than when she fought Kojirou and Kojirou kicked EMIYA's ass explicitly in the UBW route alongside Cu.

The fact that he was still alive shows that it can't take all of his lives. He was done because he was absorbed by the shadow and ripped off his own skin, probably losing God Hand in the process. Movie is irrelevant.

That barely matters when he explicitly avoided fighting Artoria due to that bluff in and of itself when he was down a few lives. And you are acting as if Mana Burst - TNR Excalibur can't be a thing in a fight.

Archer.

@rhoynedelta:

Honestly a full Caladbolg shot is far from the only thing that is dangerous for Saber, regular attacks or UBW attacks from Archer are still dangerous to her. We have seen Saber when supplied by a proper magus get overwhelmed by Gilles des Rais summons (albeit with a wounded tendon), she was just getting stomped by Hercules at the start of FSN without her using Ecalibur, while Archer had a bunch of unique methods to kill Hercules many times and clashed weapons with him on-cg (while Saber got blatantly overpowered and carved up), she got choked out by a amped master. Iskander who was capable of dodging point blank Excalibur, while carrying a person also had a insufficient master (Waver) while Saber had a more competent one. (Kiritsugu)

No one really uses F/Z Artoria's worst aspects due to not only how Out of Character she is, but ultimately how Urobuchi admitted to making her suffer losses and weakness on purpose to "break" her.

You ARE also forgetting Diarmuid could barely clash with her without getting tired, the fact that Heracles was supplied by a Pseudo-Grail user meanwhile she was improperly summoned and maintained by someone's whose Magical Circuits was heavily gimped and Kuzuki was not only already a superhuman but got further amped up x10 over but also had a style that basically ignored physics and her Instinct entirely.

Most of those was already mentioned but it is again funny that you aren't mentioning her high ends either.

When she fought Diarmuid she also pretty much got outskilled and her sword has been caught by Lancelot, while his master was low on mana, so even with a significantly better than Shirou master she is still very far from invulnerable and honestly she relies on Excalibur heavily in lots of fights. After having no master and just using his own mana to use UBW and getting stabbed by Shirou Archer also still survived getting impaled by a dozen of noble phantasms from Gil at once and still survived and even remained in the world through his own mana for quite some time.

1. Diarmuid used his own skill to outplay Instinct, that was not outskilled in any fashion especially since that's how his skill works. Otherwise he didn't nothing of that sort after that in any of their battles which show the opposite.

2. Lancelot explicitly knew the actual length of Excalibur when he grabbed it through Invisible Air. Which was a massive hint to Artoria that the person she was fighting knew of both. That's not something anyone else could do when they never seen either.

3. It was mentioned by Nasu that EMIYA was running on fumes, barely expended anything against Shirou and then had to eat some animals to stay manifested at the end. And besides, that's not really much against someone like Karna completely burning out his entire Spirit Origin and still walking around despite that. Even Medusa was able to still survive connected to Shinji after having her neck snapped for potentially an hour while her Noble Phantasm was still working before finally dying.

We also know that the gap between Shirou Saber and a hypothetical full-charged Saber is not that huge seeing how Medusa could content with either one, dominating Shirou-Saber and contending with false-grail charged Saber Alter. Aside from Clairvoyance, he also has Minds Eye which is comparable to Instinct.

Huh? Medusa could dominate EMIYA with ease when she's at full power to the point Nasu even stated he has to play Archer or emphatically lose. Meanwhile in Heaven's Feel, Medusa with Shinji was struggling with Cursed Arm Hassan and lost in a single hit to Shirou's Saber! The only reason she even put up a fight in Fate was because she ate enough people to use Belleophron in the first place and THAT was the only issue Saber had.

And let's not forget that even with Belleophron's BS power, Excalibur was gonna straight up kill it and Medusa if it wasn't for Shirou.

Given that he was Shirou he also knows far more about Saber, her personality and her fighting style than Saber knows about him and he even knows the special sword technique that HF Shirou used to kill Saber Alter in one of the bad ends.

EMIYA canonically doesn't remember anything from the 3 Routes or the Bad Ends at all and barely remembered anything when he was summoned until awhile later and only just the specifics. He would be blind fighting Artoria even then.

@busterbladex:

Not barely, he actually deflected a good number of shots and legit made it to Gilgamesh who had to use Enkidu to restrain him. The only shots that hit that was meant to be fatal was hit to non-fatal areas.

Cu did far better and Archer kept up with him, that's incomparable. And Iskandar has D ranked agility overall, yet he was able to dodge Excalibur at the last second. And Saber was destroyed easily by GOB, so if anything that speaks to Iskandar's skill.

And again Gilgamesh was able to deal with Richard The Lionheart and Enkidu in F/SF and the latter in Babylonia all the time.

Cool, but Archer should still be comparable in speed unless you think that Gilgamesh can blitz him. Also, for round 2 in the very same scene where it's mentioned that Saber might be able to defeat Archer using Excalibur, it's also stated right afterwards that Archer, being who he is, has some unspecified countermeasure for that too. And if Cu who has a ability literally made for dodging projectiles and couldn't reach Archer, what chance does the much slower Saber have? She can't defend against BP Caladbolg aimed directly at her considering just its explosion managed to kill her in one of the UBW bad endings.

And most importantly, HF Shirou was fully acclimated to Archer's abilities, strength and power at that point and it still took him going brain dead to "kill" her without Medusa's help.

Because he already started to fry his brain previously against Berserker. And Archer doesn't suffer from the same weakness, meaning that if he was in Shirou's place he would have just won fair and square.

Her steeling herself for death is no different than when she fought Kojirou and Kojirou kicked EMIYA's ass explicitly in the UBW route alongside Cu.

Huh? He fought Sasaki and survived even though Sasaki has a skill "Knowledge of the Sowa" that specifically nerfs the effects of prediction skills like Eye of the Mind. And if Saber had to brace herself from a random volley from UBW, it's obvious she would have a hard time against it. Also Cu didn't kick Archer's ass. Archer was still able to contend and Lancer backed off and even wondered why he joined Caster if he was that strong. He was inferior but he blocked Lancer's full-force attacks, despite the VN saying that he should not last a few more blows.

@busterbladex:

That barely matters when he explicitly avoided fighting Artoria due to that bluff in and of itself when he was down a few lives. And you are acting as if Mana Burst - TNR Excalibur can't be a thing in a fight.

My only argument there is that Excalibur alone cannot take out all of his lives. i certainly agree that she could take him down through those type of combos.

@busterbladex: I mean I am making a case for why I think Archer is more likely to win, I acknowledge that Saber also has higher end feats, but they are not as relevant to my case. F/Z lower ends do exist and are valid, a writer having a specific narrative reason for why a character has too endure hardships and struggles does not invalidate anything. Gilgamesh's character is likely the way it is so that he isn't too broken in the story and ends the HGW in one day, but it is legitimately his character. Plus I don't really think they are far more drastic than Saber's F/SN low-ends. Sure Kozuki was superhuman, unconventional and buffed, but I acknowledged that, he still was not high-servant tier and Archer is considered a tricky, versatile opponent with many techniques and Saber has a tendency to recklessly charge. Her initial performance against Hercules was very poor. Plus a Shirou that is far below Archer could hold his own for a time against the same Kozuki that dealt with Saber.

Sure Medusa only dominated Saber because of Bellerophon and because Saber didn't use Excalibur, but she could still do that and it was too serve my point of how Saber often relies on Excalibur, which can be dodged, has a significant charge-up time and costs a lot of mana. When Saber Alter charged it up Medusa and Shirou had time to sync up and creat their whole Rho Aias-Bellorophon combo and we have already discussed Iskander. Medusa also got struck with a shitty master so her having to amp herself is not a huge argument against her. I would not call Bellorophon "BS power", after all there are still quite a few stronger noble phantasms including Excalibur and the Rider class in general is know to depend on noble phantasms rather than stats typically.

If anything the fact that Archer was already running on fumes by the time of Shirou vs Archer only makes it more impressive and the main point is that he was riddled with Gil's noble phantasm and still endured, even fooling everyone present including Gil who for a all his faults is also a genius. Also Saber was somewhat impressed and intimidated by UBW even though Archer was running on fumes and Saber had made a contract with RIn.

"Diarmuid used his own skill to outplay Instinct, that was not outskilled in any fashion" I would consider that outskilled, he induced her into making a mistake that would be more costly for her than him, that is a big part of what skill is in most contests.

A argument for Saber is often that she was weakened due to a improper master, which is true, but also often overstated as suboptimal masters are also an issue for plenty of other characters and even Sasaki, while literally fading away due to not having any mana left, was still a considerable threat to Saber.

Also while not having many explicit memories he likely has a better grasp of Saber's technique due to how Minds Eye works as well as just latent muscle memory and he still has all his techniques, like the one HF Shirou used to kill Saber Alter.

@rhoynedelta: I'm gonna cut down on my reply and just shorten it into 2 points:

1. Kuzuki, even with the fact he was already capable of pulping human skulls with his bare hands(300-400 PSI) even BEFORE Medea's buffs was only able to knock about Shirou Saber after an absurd beat down including aiming at vitals... is not a win for EMIYA considering his fighting style would have worked on any Servant as he also killed Shinji Medusa in UBW.

2. Saber was downplayed pretty damn hard in F/Z to such a degree even Urobuchi mentioned he did it on purpose. How she fought against Caster's Horrors or even Lancelot doesn't gel with what we later get from her or her other selves that still scale to Saber Artoria(Lancelot explicitly cannot deal with Gift Numerals Gawain in Camelot which was why King Hassan was needed and can only match him until the sun goes down. Summer 4 then points out a Holy Sword User can defeat Numerals Gawain which was why Moriarty chose Arthur... and Arthur doesn't ultimately excel any better than Artoria except for slaying monsters... and then there's Extella that has her basically body the entire Moon Cell and Altera, including Gilgamesh and Iskandar at once and that timeline is canon due to how the modes there works to the lore of the game).

3. Shirou Saber isn't used here, just Rin Saber. The same Rin Saber that could deal with a volley of GoB which can punch holes through Mountains with ease AND is fast enough to easily fire off and hit a jet faster than the Jet's main cannon can fire:

https://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Fate/Zero:Act_10_Part_5

Carrying the six barrels and the cylindrical ammunition casing, weighing 200 kilogram in total, Berserker once again aimed from the sky at Saber below him. The rotary cannon, accelerated by prana, spun up in the blink of an eye. Saber finally realized that she had nowhere else to turn in the instant the torrential bullets were about to surge out.

The firing distance for Berserker, having jumped down from the aircraft and continuing to aim at Saber as he descended, was exceptionally closer than before. Saber no longer had time to anticipate for the initial velocity of the rounds, and no matter which way she may dodge, she couldn’t get out of the range of the rain of shells about to pour onto her.

It's all or nothing...!

Now that it has come to this, Saber was prepared to resort to using her Noble Phantasm, misplaced though it may be; the instant she swung the sword over her head, streaks of shining steel came flying in from an impossible angle and struck Berserker head on.

Hammer, axe and bolt gouged the jet black armor, and a giant sickle cleaved the body of the revolving gun barrel in half. Furthermore, a flaming bolt hit the ammunition storage directly, igniting all the remaining 20mm shells, blossoming wild crimson flames in the air. Berserker, washed over by the fragments and blast, was helplessly blown away, drawing a parabola in the empty air before sinking into the river surface like a thrown rock.

Regardless of the size of the caliber, something on the level of mere cannon shells pose no threat to Servants at all. This is especially so with Saber, whose physical abilities would allow her to evade them with no difficulty, and even deflect the shots back with the blade of her sword if she wanted to. However – no matter how extraordinary the Heroic Spirit may be, the 12,000 rounds-per-minute of the pride of America's General Electric, the M61 autocannon, presented an unmanageable amount of shots. Worse yet, as a weapon carrying the properties of a Noble Phantasm due to Berserker’s prana, a single shot would instantly be fatal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M61_Vulcan

The funny part is that this is honestly a low end considering Knight of Owner explicitly changes the entire property of what he uses entirely as a simple flare dispenser because a heat seeking rocket capable of taking down the Vimana and a simple MP5 can shred through a car.

We also know this that it's the same speed as Archer's own arrows from UBW anime(as nothing has ever shown his launcher is slower than any Archer's arrows. So yeah, it does matter, especially since the invocation of Unlimited Blade Works is not that easy nor simple for Archer to do. There's nothing stopping her from killing him before he gets a chance at using it outside of him being well outside of that range... but even in the 2nd part, she only never Excaliblast'd him due to the fact he was still in the city, thus property damage and lives lost was very possible.

@busterbladex:

The same Rin Saber that could deal with a volley of GoB

When did that happen?

@busterbladex: Honestly I am fine leaving it here as it is, I think I have said my main points, I am also admittedly not that knowledgeable about FGO stuff, so I won't argue there. My position is basically that both servants have impressive performances in F/SN and Nasu paints them as comparable, each perfectly capable of killing the others. Thats why I felt compelled to push back when you said that Caladbolg was the only real threat to Saber and even then she can just deal with it, but of course it's not unreasonable to think that Saber could be the more likely winner, I personally just slightly favor Archer because I consider his average performance superior and his style a bad match-up for Saber (as opposed to say another conventional swordsman), thats pretty much it, let whoever may read the thread decide whats more convincing.

Rin is the best master normal Saber Artoria has had in the VN. So, it’s only fair we give Archer Emiya the best master he’s had who is Caster Medea.

R1: Archer fought evenly with and matched Cù who is a lot faster than Saber, Berserker who’s a powerhouse on par with Saber and Sasaki who dwarfs Saber in terms of skills and swordsmanship.

Obviously, Saber is stronger and faster but Archer is more skilled and knows her fighting style and the length of her invisible sword. Archer can predict her moves and counter accordingly. Archer wins high-diff due to his skill that’s on par with guys like Diarmuid and sane Heracles.

R2: Archer spams homing anti-army NPs forcing her to use up a lot of mana till she runs out and can’t defend herself anymore.

Bonus Round: Alter bulldozes her way to victory.

Saber stomps. This ain't really that close as well

Saber decapitates the man. Though i do think shirou was seriously underrating the ability of unlimited blade works when he said it would only be effective against gilgamesh, putting it against one of the most powerful servants in the verse is just unfair.

Without Avalon (the OP said so in a comment), I can see Archer taking a majority in all rounds tbh. His ability to project weapons is on pair with Gilgamesh's Gates of Babylon. I think he wins due to UBW.

Saber unless it’s an off screen battle, than Archer stomps

@uc388: I don't recall archer having any off-screen battle in the visual novel save for Berserker. But Archer killing him 6 times does make sense considering some hax he displayed. Like that arrow he used against Caster in the UBW route which significantly injured her (Archer deliberately decided to spare Caster) even after she teleported, due to that arrow punching a hole in space.

Round 1: Saber 10/10

Round 2: Saber 8/10

Round 1: Saber 9/10

Round 2: Saber 6/10

Round 3: Saber 7/10

Saber wins all rounds. Archer is not on the higher servant tier.

@mike_strike10: a guy who killed Berserker 6 times is not on Saber's level?

@ningenoid: If Archer has Caster Medea as Master, he wins all rounds with UBW. In the close range rounds, Archer can stall till he activates UBW ftw.

@mike_strike10: If Archer has Caster Medea as Master, he wins all rounds with UBW. In the close range rounds, Archer can stall till he activates UBW ftw.