Naruto (without SoSP) vs Hashirama

@azureus: Sorry but you aren't informing anything, wood dragon absorbs chakra therefore nullifies the ninjutsu. So the statement stands, yes he absorbs anything Naruto has to offer.

Ahahahahaahahahaahha

That's one concession, let's see if we can make Azureus stop talking now

@braindrain: Here you go

Lol, the TBB didn’t even need to explode to do the job

I wonder where that ninjutsu absorption ability suddenly went

@azureus b-b-but he can absorb chakra from restrained targets.

It's good to have you back Hope.

No, that's not true at all. The absorption of chakra and ninjutsu are completely different. Otherwise Orochimaru, Jugo, Yoroi and everyone in the aburame clan can absorb ninjutsu. If you think otherwise, I would gladly welcome canon proof.

@ourmanuel: oh great, you're back, well for one that's a single wooden dragon which probably wasn't enough to stop a full Kurama on the account it took several to simply restrain Madara. Then you provide a cropped image that doesn't show you that Hashirama was using his Golem at the time against Madara which has a tail similar to the dragon:

Once again, you're dismissed strawman.

Well let's see.....none of them actually absorb chakra except the genie guy so that example simply doesn't work. Aburame clans bugs feed on chakra and have actually countered ninjutsu (albeit filler) and fire attacks.

The equivalent of what you're telling me is the chakra absorption used in the Rinnegan doesn't negate Jutsu as well, we both know that's false. Your ONLY possible argument would be 'we haven't seen it absorb ninjutsu' which doesn't matter because it hasn't been put in the situation to absorb it however it has absorbed Chakra cloaks which would have the same make up of a ninjutsu construct.

I will tone down the passive aggression though.....I can't be like that if my opponent isn't being rude.

Hashirama can absorb jutsus now? Since when?0_0

I think they are talking about Madara when he used Wood Dragon to absorb 8 tails and Killer Bee powers right as Guy Hit him with his island level Attack.

@braindrain:

Well let's see.....none of them actually absorb chakra so that example simply doesn't work.

You're joking. Everyone mentioned absorbs Chakra, have you read the manga you claim we have no knowledge of?

Aburame clans bugs feed on chakra and have actually countered ninjutsu (albeit filler).

These bugs absorb Chakra in the same way as the wood dragon, the only difference here is the medium used.

The equivalent of what you're telling me is the chakra absorption used in the Rinnegan doesn't negate Jutsu as well, we both know that's false.

Not at all, the Preta Path is explictly stated to be able to absorb chakra through direct contact with a target, or through ninjutsu itself. So we know for a fact it can do both, and the same can't be said for the wood dragon.

Your ONLY possible argument would be 'we haven't seen it absorb ninjutsu'...

There's also that, but I don't even need to bring that up since chakra absorption techniques are already common in the verse, yet only a few can absorb ninjutsu.

which doesn't matter because it hasn't been put in the situation to absorb it...

So in other words, you are admitting there's no proof it can absorb ninjutsu...and yes the wood dragon has been put into a situation to absorb ninjutsu and got destroyed. So that's what going to happen here when Naruto releases a TBB, Large enough Rasengan or Rasenshuriken.

however it has absorbed Chakra cloaks which would have the same make up of a ninjutsu construct.

I don't get this point, virtually every form of ninjutsu is chakra. The only difference it that its molded to perform a specific function.

You can’t compare a chakra cloak to something like a bijuudama in this situation

Oh I can't just cos' you say so? Regardless Kurama gets oneshotted by the time he/she forms. Oh and silly me forgot to mention....

Hashirama PHYSICALLY throws everything back at him:

Case closed, you're both once again, dismissed.

@supermanforever: I don't think that is true at all. Having full Kurama should at least give Naruto a kurama avatar that's more than twice the size.

Kurama became significantly smaller in size when half of his Chakra was take off. That would reduce his physicals just as much or even more.

Having 100% Kurama should do more than just double one's Chakra,at the very least, Kurama should be much larger than his standard self.

50% The Last BSM or KCMSM tanked Moon cutter from Toneri and defeated him with a single attack one punch man style no less. This Toneri had power to slice Moon like butter, something beyond even SM Hashirama capability’s. SM Hashirama was fodder to 10 Tails Obito, the same Obito who is inferior to Toneri.

So basically Naruto’s base power was amplified so much after being revived by Hagoromo that his BM and BSM would have increased as well. Then there’s the fact that Naruto’s got both halves of Kurama now, so wouldn’t his BM power boost be twice as strong now ?

So basically

1 - The Last SPSM Naruto

2 - War SPSM Naruto

3 - The Last BSM Naruto

4 - Toneri

5 - 10 Tails Obito

6 - SM Hashirama / Rinnegan Edo Madara

Didn't Hope(braindrain) argue jiraya can beat EOS ichigo? Why are people taking the bait? He got banned for stupid crap like that.

My goodness you guys sound like pre-schoolers 'Hope did this!!!' In every thread, let that man's nuts breath.

OT though You can call me whatever you'd like, however seeing as I've proven my point that's the thread....you're not needed here, nor wanted seems like.

Salt^ Lmfao

About as salty as those nuts in your mouth. I always welcome new fans.

Though it must really suck to not even be able to insult correctly.

I don't think that is true at all. Having full Kurama should at least give Naruto a kurama avatar that's more than twice the size.

Just an assumption. Twice the chakra? yes. Twice the size? assumption

Kurama became significantly smaller in size when half of his Chakra was take off. That would reduce his physicals just as much or even more.

Kurama avatar is not kurama, kurama avatar is literaly a chakra construct same way Uchiha uses Susanoo. It has literaly nothing to do with how large unsealed Kurama is. Besides Naruto already used Kurama avatar vs Momoshiki during chunin exams and it was the same size as before he got second half.

Having 100% Kurama should do more than just double one's Chakra,at the very least, Kurama should be much larger than his standard self.

Lol wut? this makes literaly no sense. Kuramas chakra was splitted in two by Minato and later Naruto got it backed. Key word. "chakra was splitted in half."

Naruto got the other half of the Kurama chakra and thats it, there is no magical powerups. Nor did his Kyuubi avatar increase in size what was shown against momoshiki when he stopped his bijudama attack and also when he used it against Fused Momoshiki in his dimension when he combined it with Sasukes susanoo. His avatar was still perfect susanoo size as before.

@mygod101: @ourmanuel: @braindrain:

Hashirama can absorb tailed beast chakra pretty casually using multiple wood dragons. In fact he singlehandedly catched and kept all tailed beasts under his control. The reason why wood style can absorb and put down tailed beasts, might be conected to the fact that Juubi is also made of wood style and to create Juubi all tailed beasts must be absorbed. Well this is just guessing.

However Hashirama is very capable of absorbing tailed beast chakra, not bijudamas or ninjutsu but directly absorbing the chakra from the body. Same way Yamato put Naruto to sleep.

Hashirama can also seal with woodstyle. People are ridiculously overhyping Naruto in this thread. Hashirama literaly sealed 10 tails with his just casually and Juubito barely broke that jutsu. How will Naruto with literaly no six path powers break that.

People seem to not realise, but without six path powers Hashirama borderline stomps Naruto and Kurama is literaly the least thing he has to worry about. He can casually shut down the avatar, same way Madara put Narutos avatar down with just one wood dragon.

Base Naruto was tanking hits from an alien god so I don’t even see Hashirama winning with these stipulations.

Okay...and Shin Uchiha can tank hit from Base Naruto and Sasuke so what your point?

@braindrain:

Nope. Using a seal to drain chakra is a far cry from something like a chakra absorption barrier, wood release, or even the Yoroi guys hand trick.

You lost me, everyone there has shown the ability to absorb chakra through physical contact, or some other medium. I can provide examples here if you need them. I also see you edited your earlier response, what's up with that.

And Yoroi can't absorb ninjutsu.

So by this argument Hashirama would be incapable of absorbing the Raikages Raiton armor, which is nothing but weaponized lightning chakra. Which is in itself simply not true.

And how is that? The fact the Preta Path can absorb chakra multiple ways?

The ones you're mentioning haven't been applied in the same way wood release has.

This isn't true. But go ahead and explain.

You're basically just spouting 'it cant' now...

And gave comparative examples as for why it cannot, only for you to initially deny it, then now relegate every example to using a seal, which isn't even true.

wood release has shown it can absorb chakra constructs therefore by extension it can absorb ninjutsu constructs which is what Rasenshuriken is.

The shinjuu tree itself could do do this, yet was unable to do the same to ninjutsu that was being used to cut the very roots it uses to absorb chakra, while its doing just that. Not seeing your point here.

How is there no proof?

The absense of such instances to begin with.

A Ninjutsu is chakra using shape manipulation correct? Then please do enlighten me how one chakra construct can be absorbed but not another?

Not sure how that works, but it does. We see Jugo outright sapping chakra out of a target, yet getting wiped out by ninjutsu the next second, while he's busy absorbing chakra. The same thing with Orochimaru, and the shinju tree. You'd think if they could, they'd just absorb the jutsu too, right?

The EXACT same is said for a chakra cloak. Therefore you have grasped the argument yet are denying it simply because you are stubborn.

Nothing I can add to here that I haven't said already.

@braindrain:

Provide them then, that would've been so much better in the beginning.

Image display is not working correctly, with these links, so here you go: 1,2,3

Orochimaru doesn't Absorb chakra without one of his seals or his body swapping Jutsu,

He absorbed Sage Mode from Kabuto without any of that.

Kabuto using Medical Ninjutsu,

Didn't even mention him...and didn't know he could absorb chakra using medical ninjutsu. Scans?

Jugo transfers chakra using Senjutsu and his cells, hes a special case.

Uh what? What do you mean? I know Jugo passively absorbs nature energy, but what does that have to with this?

His jutsu is practically the same as Kabutos Medical Ninjutsu,

No, it's not.

not that you can correlate ability to willingness anyways.

True, but that also goes both ways.

What jutsu was he supposed to absorb in his chapter of screen time?

Are you expecting answer?

No, the point here is there is no discernible difference between the Raikages lightning chakra, Naruto's cloak, and/or practically any other form of chakra construct period.

Aside from molding and shape and elemental transformation, no.

So you telling me Hashirama couldn't absorb a rasenshuriken is the blatant equivalent of saying he cant absorb the raikages lightning.

But its not, because Hashirama has had many chances to ouright absorb ninjutsu, and yet only chooses to drain restrained targets, and the same goes for Madara when using the wood style.

What do you mean explain.....its self explanatory. Wood release has suppressed, drained, and held the shape of chakra (Hashirama returning a BB) show me Orochimaru, Jugo, or Yoroi doing the same.

...You said the forms of absorption utilized by all the others hadn't been applied in the same way as wood style, not the way in interacts with chakra in general. We're focusing specifically on chakra absorption. Why the sudden jump?

Wood release clearly is an acception to the usual mechanics of how it interacts with Chakra across the boards.

This was not your argument a few replies ago, absorption wise, where is the difference? No one said any of these individuals can do what wood style can, I said there was no difference in how absorption took place.

Every example you've used is fundamentally flawed.

You're jumping from argument to argument now.

Show me any of the characters mentioned manipulating chakra similar to Wood release.

You'll have to show me why these properties have an effect on how chakra is absorbed instead of finding every difference possible, and then using that to try and set it apart from the rest.

Also, still Shinjuu tree.

Yet another bad example, the Shinjuu tree isnt absorbing chakra in every single showing as people make contact with it throughout the war.

It was absorbing chakra in the very example I gave and in fact, ninjutsu was used in the same area where it was absorbing chakra.....so this is false.

Well I'm sorry Kishimoto didn't narrate a very specific and detailed instance for you however with nothing short of common correlation with the feats we do have it's quite simple

Ok, lets see what you have.

Hashirama can physically grab Ninjutsu with woodrelease and redirect attacks.

Ok, so what? This by itself is nothing.

Hashirama can also drain chakra constructs.

Seeing as how Madara did the same to BM Naruto, I agree.

Rasenshuriken is nothing but a wind chakra construct

That he not only can't catch because "blades" (Madara mentioned something similar before), but he lacks even feats of absorbing jutsu that he's caught. The reason, I don't know.

Therefore the burden of proof is on you to substantiate the claim that he cant...

You've given no evidence he can absorb ninjutsu to begin with...and the initial positive claim is YOURS. How is the burden of proof on me?

drain it rather than that one specific instance you're asking for not being shown. Otherwise you're cherry picking a strawman only for it to come to the same conclusion.

Hold up. My claim lies in the fact that there's no single instance of hashirama absorbing jutsu, and in the fact that chakra absorption techniques absorbing ninjutsu is only with a select few techniques out there and not all of them.

Jugo cant drain omnidirectionally, he doesn't have a chakra absorbtion barrier so it could easily take him by surprise or simply overpower him.

Keyword here is could. There's no certainty, and absorbing ninjutsu always has a nullifying effect whether in contact or through a barrier, so he couldn't have been overpowered by the jutsu.

The only jutsu that's come in contact with the Shinju tree specficially while it was absorbing Chakra were Tobiramas water bullet which was shaped by water and Sasuke slicing a branch (most likely a shockwave)

Why does the water transformation matter? It still is ninjutsu.

Except actual evidence...

How am I supposed to prove Hashirama can't absorb chakra with evidence? If supporting evidence is already absent, how do I provide contrary evidence lol?

and a logical refute. You know how I operate, I might not even believe in what I'm selling myself; however I do find it absolutely amusing to see no one can contest such a technicality.

????

OP is quite confusing. What does ' maybe without tail beast' mean?

Are you saying Naruto without other tail beast chakra but with Kyuubi or Naruto without Kyuubi and other bijuu?

Regardless, Hashirama will win against Naruto without rikudo power. In war Madara stomped both Kyuubi and Hachibi with wood dragon. And prove how wood style is bijuu kryptonite.

And Hashi's wood cannot absorb jutsu but can absorb chakra. There is a clear difference between absorbing chakra and absorbing jutsu.

Naruto easily

Hashirama stomps BSM Naruto.

Six Paths Naruto, Hashirama still wins.

Six Paths Naruto (With KCM boost), Naruto wins.

If this is pre death then Hashirama all the way

If this is post Death then going with Naruto.

After post Death all of base Naruto stats were increased so logically his Sm, KCM, and BM should be stronger as well. In Fact his bsm is so strong in The Last, he managed to beat Tenseigan Toneri with only 50% BSM. This alone should give him enough speed and power to blitz Hashirama before Hashirama uses wood dragon absorption to restrain 9 tails powers.

When Hashirama stomps SP Naruto? SP Naruto (without SM) oneshots SM Hashirama or Base Hashi are no equally to Base Naruto with SP or SPSM Naruto. Only can SM or Base Hashi against win BSM Naruto before got power up from Hagoromo.

SPSM Hokage Naruto > Base Hokage Naruto (Halves of Kurama Yang/Yin) > Last %50 BSM Naruto (other %50 Kurama was fighting with Golem statue) > SPSM Naruto > Base Naruto with SP power (Blitz Juubidara without Shinji Tree Immortal) > SM Hashirama > Base Hashirama = BSM Naruto.

@narutouzumakimedakakurokami: Hashirama can create Wood Golem, that beat Full Kurama and Perfect Susano'o of Madara at the same time. Naruto without Six Paths and KCM does not stand a chance against Hashirama.

Not Hashi's galem it was Toneri's Golem statue you didn't see the last in movie isn't it?

@narutouzumakimedakakurokami: Isn't Hashirama the reincarnation of Ashura? Hashi's Wood Golem is not Toneri's then. And I am talking about Madara vs Hashirama fight. In that fight, Hashirama creates a Wood Golem and beats Full Kurama and Perfect Susano'o of Madara.

Oh ok.

Naruto wins. + Naruto from the Last are like 2x Hashirama on his prime lol. He defeated a guy who breaks the moon in half by a PUNCH lol

Adult Naruto one shots Hashi in base because of speed and power. Rasengan to the face.

The Last BSM Naruto wins.

War BSM Naruto loses.

Hashi slaps kurama's cock 1000 times over.

His BSM in only 50% tanked moon splitter so 100% is more than enough to blitz and crush Hashirama before he can even use wood dragon to restrict Kurama powers.

guys this is base naruto. kcm2 naruto , kakashi, and guy were getting slapped by obito. madara is far stronger than obito and he was getting slapped no dif by hashirama (the only time hashirama summoned the giant 1000 hand wood guy was when madara had the kyuubi. after madara got one shot by that) so base naruto no tailed beast and no sosg would get slapped by hashirama (sosg naruto could stand a chance). what is BASE narutos counter to the 1000 hands attack? base naruto loses to sasuke. hashirama is stronger than sasuke ok.

@ricedumpling420: Naruto should still be able to use sage mode in these conditions, I think the op is just restricting power ups not skills, so he could attempt to nuke it with senjutsu.

If this is Adult Naruto

Then even Base Naruto stomps