Naruto vs Yhwach

@ourmanuel: Yeah that isn't how this works. I asked you to provide an actual basis for how you reached the conclusion that Mimihagi is LS or FTL. You clearly can't do so. You can't even provide one solid variable to calc him at that level.

To be completely honest there is no reason to think that Ichigo's travel speed over the course of a day is greater than 3 digit mach. You certainly won't find a feat proving his travel speed is that fast (notice I said travel, not combat which is undoubtedly faster).

Again if Mimihagi is LS or FTL than that would mean the distance he crossed is several times larger than earth which is absurd because there is no basis at all for that. The much more rational explanation is that Bleach travel speeds simply aren't that fast generally.

But if you can provide any proof at all that the distance crossed was multiple time larger than the circumference of the Earth or that Ichigo's travel speed is anywhere close to 3 digit mach I would love to see it.

@man_of_miracles:

mimihagi reached R.P from S.S in 5 seconds or so, 5 is what is generally used

ichigo took 9 hrs

9hrs is 32400 seconds

that's 6480x longer than mimihagi

give ichigo mach 90 travel speeds which is more than likely a gross lowball

mach 90 x 6480 = mach 583,200

mach 583,200 = 443557623 mph which is around 70% the speed of light if I'm not mistaken

that's relativistic

@jatom22: 1) Where are you getting the exact hours for Ichigo?

2) Show me anywhere at all where we could draw the conclusion that the distance between the Royal Palace and the SS is 651,988.4 miles (70% × LS × 5 seconds = 651,988.4 miles). That distance by the way is 26x the circumference of the entire Earth.

Again, provide any solid basis for the distances/speeds involved.

@man_of_miracles: well he says half a day and the clock in the scan where he lands indicates half a day was taken to travel

we dont know the distance but comparing their speeds puts mimihagi at relativistic, even while lowballing ichigos

edit: the only non solid aspect of my calc is the 5 second mimihagi travel time everything else is pretty concrete.

@man_of_miracles:

@man_of_miracles:

Tenjiro, the fastest royal guard member based on his title, stated that it would normally take 1 week to travel down to seireitei.

Ichibe traveled about 4000 km casually in base in, at most, 5 seconds. That’s already a quad digit Mach speed. And ichigo is meant to be faster than that based on how he reacted to and hit tenjiro, and also how he accomplished what would have tenjiro one week, in about half a day. That speed alone can be used to find out the distance based on the 1 week statement. Even if you lowball to Mach 500, that’s still LS for mimihagi. Sorry, but this is just how it is.

@jatom22: The distance, Mimihagi's timeframe and Ichigo's average travel speed are all assumed variables here. So the only semi-solid thing is Ichigo's timeframe.

Speaking of do you have the scan for that?

FTL Speeds LOL

@ourmanuel: 1) Yeah the Ichebei feat can be calced at 4 digit mach. Do you have any idea how slow that is compared to LS?

2) Ichigo's combat speed =/= his travel speed. Also it's doubtful he can travel at his top speed for an extended period. Plus what other difficulties are there in traveling from the Royal Palace to the SS? Was is stated it was just a straight line journey with no obstacles?

3) Lol, you can't just say "that is how it is". You calculation for Mimihagi's speed is circular and based off tons of assumptions about other characters travel speed. Give one single solid variable for Mimihagi's travel speed feat. Even the timeframe is up for debate.

@man_of_miracles:

It doesn’t take a genius to know how fast he was. Even if ichigo can only maintain double digit Mach speeds, that’s still highly relativistic for Mimihagi.

Even without that, what’s naruto’s best speed feat really? How’ll ot help him against Yhwach?

Yhwach stomps

@ourmanuel: I'm not asking for a genius to figure out how fast he was. I'm asking you to make minimum effort to prove your case.

Again, assuming his travel speed without the other variables is asked about doesn't help us.

And again, we have to sometimes bring some common sense I to our assumptions. How much sense does it make for the distance between the Royal Palace and the SS to be over 20x the circumference of Earth? (Which is almost 3 times as far as the moon btw) Are we ever given any indication of those kinds of distance being involved at all?

I'm not arguing for Naruto's speed here. And if I was I would tell you his reaction speed / combat speed are subrelativistic at best with precog. More likely they are MHS+.

@man_of_miracles:

really you dont think ichigo can travel at mach 90 that's a speed walk for this version of him

I'll post the scan later I'm at work

edit the distance is irrelavent

@jatom22:

I talking about naruto not ichibei

@bossmountain:

This is NLF as he didn't show doing this to people stronger than him

@ourmanuel:

Well I said steal not absorb two different things and the soul king could be because they were related

@goldheretic: it's not really not when we seen it work on individual strong with him like the soul King.

so far none Naruto fanboy refuted this: Naruto had become a roast duck.

@jatom22: Are you actually claiming the distance is irrelevant when discussing a speed calculation? That's just a ridiculous thing to say. Considering speed = distance/time. Right now you are assuming two of these variables and saying the third variable doesn't matter.

Funny how no one is really making an argument for how naruto wins.

@man_of_miracles: the way I calced it the distance doesnt matter. the only thing that isnt set is the mimihagi travel time the distance isnt needed the way I did it. It would make things easier but it's not 100% necessary

Someone tag him.... and we all know who that special person is.... ;)

And BTW Naruto one shots.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

@kingogkings777: huh????

@ourmanuel: ?

@renthesupreme who wins this one?

@ourmanuel@kingogkings777

@thepunisherfan: Yhwach, but a better battle would be Yhwach with the almighty vs Ainz al whatever his name is or Yhwach without the Almighty vs Naruto and maybe make speed equalized idk.

LS Bleach?

Holy misconceptions Batman!

1st off, KS worked on Yhwach because it was used before The Almighty was activated. If it had been activated after The Almighty then Yhwach would have seen it in the future and thus any illusions wouldn't be effective since Yhwach would simply know that what he is seeing is not reality.

2nd off, Naruto does not have the feats to suggest he can blitz a sub rel reality warper with omniscience.

3rd, Yhwach has stolen and nullified powers before.

He did it to Yama's bankai, he did it to Ichigo and he did it to Ichibei.

@ourmanuel: Well i was under the impression that this was hokage naruto (Inb4 eos is stronger than hokage), but in this case Yhwach wins. but if we are talking speed, i'd like to take a page out of your book and ask you how fast the 4th raikage ay is before i move on.

Because this same battle has been done over and over. The case has been made long ago, you've failed to refute the arguments for, and failed to bring up the arguments against. Now we're just repeating the same arguments over and over hashing out the same discussions over and over and pretending as if we haven't heard them before. How hard and how many times does an argument have to be shit on for this to hit you in the head. Get a clue, man. Disagreeing with our claims is one thing, but the idea no argument has been made against is something else.

Gallery

This is the end result of nearly every debate I've had with you. Says a lot. So let's not continue

You complain the same threads are being done over and over yet continue to debateclaim the other side is wrong on this topic in the same argument. You're basically adding to this problem.

You are even worse. You walk into a thread call a person a "typical narutard/naruto fanboy and etc. Either that or you make a bait thread pitting a Naruto God-tier against an multidimensional being. Never has anything productive come from you.

Now we have the shitposting duo in the thread.

Isn't that now in question since regular lightning chakra isn't real lightning or something which makes him less then the speed of lightning?

@jatom22: Except it does matter. Because they way you calced it would mean that Mimihagi traveled 3x farther than the distance between the Earth and the moon. Does that make any sense at all? 1) It doesn't pass a basic smell test 2) It doesn't fit reasonable basis at all considering what we know about distances in Bleach generally.

This is not even mentioning we don't have an actual solid speed for Ichigo's travel during his trip or for the timeframe in which either the Mimihagi or Ichigo feat take place (we have an iffy time frame for the Ichigo but at least it's something). Mimihagi could be as long as a few minutes which would drastically change your calc.

You can't use 2 assumed non-solid variables to calc a speed feat then just say "naw distance doesn't matter because the way I do it" when the distance makes absolutely 0 sense.

This is also why I hate how Kubo describes size. All size in Bleach is calculated using the stated time frame it would take to travel to things leaving us to assume a) how fast one would reasonably travel b) if we should assume normal breaks and rest, and c) (which is almost always mistakenly overlooked) whether or not the journey is a straight travel or whether it includes obstacles along the way.

This makes it insanely difficult to actually measure speed and or sizes with any semblance of accuracy.

I mean if you consider a half dead and half bind itachi faster than ay. In fact kakashi was stated in the manga, anime, and databooks to have cut lightning as a fatigued child, so i guess if you wanted to think ay was slower than the both of them, i think it's safe to say he's above lighting. I know how fast, but would rather not get called a wanker by some people on this site. so it's up to you guys for this one.

I don't know why this is argued Yhwach can take on Sasuke and Naruto together there is nothing Naruto can do in here.

The thing I was getting at though since there was an argument on this site about natural chakra and non natural chakra because of the light fang attack.

Itachi is soloking so we don't count him among the peasants.

U rite.

@man_of_miracles: I'm at diner right now so ill keep it brief and respond more thoroughly when I get to my laptop.

ichigo and mimihagi traveled the same distance

we lowballed ichigo to mach 90 which I feel is more than fair

we put mimihagi at 5 seconds as I said it's not solid but its what's used in almost all the calcs for him

if it took ichigo 9hrs and it took mimihagi 5 seconds, then mimihagi traveld the same distance as ichigo 6480x faster.

therefore he is 6480x faster than mach 90 ichigo

this puts him at 70% sol

now where do we need the distance

edit: even if you dont agree with my numbers we dont need the distance

the speed of mimihagi does not matter here.

@gabrielbelmont: Yes it does since Yhwach reacted to mimihagi.

@jatom22: Let me state this again. You are assuming Ichigo's travel speed, Mimihagi's time frame, and Ichigo's time frame and we aren't given the distance.

That means we are basing every part of the calc on assumptions. This is where common sense and reasonable basis come into play.

70% * LS * 5 seconds would be approximately 615,000 miles. Which is 2.5x the distance from the Earth to the Moon.

Does it seem reasonable to you that the distance from the Royal Palace to the SS is that far? Are we ever given and indication of that kind of distance? The answer is no, absolutely not.

The more likely answer is that one of our assumptions is being over or understated. The most likely of the variables to get wrong here is Mimihagi's time frame. I've seen it put at as much as 5 minutes, but even as little as 1 minute or even 30 seconds drastically changes his speed and the distances involved to a much more reasonable basis given every speed feat we have seen other than that.

And honestly even if we assumed your calc was completely correct it would be a massive outlier as the highest speed feat BY FAR until that point is Icheibe's 1000 ri feat which is like 4 digit mach.

@man_of_miracles: I'm not saying u need to agree with my numbers, all I'm saying is to get mimihagis speed we dont need to know how far it is

mimihagi comes out of ukitakes body and is in the R.P in like 1 or 2 scans I highly doubt that's a minuet seconds seems more likely

edit ichibei is 5 digit mach but I'd rather not get into that

@jatom22: Then we have to disagree because I find basing such a high end speed calc on only assumptions totally ridiculous. Especially when the speed/distance we get with the calculation would be a massive outlier .

The distance doesn't have to sound reasonable, it's frickin fiction. You're using a massive appeal to reality here. and considering ichigo reacted to and dodged something that was mach 500 in a massively weaker form already proves that this calc was a lowball and for the most part an accurate way to calculate the speed. Then your point about outliers is ridiculous. A god tier shouldn't scale to characters of weaker tiers. they aren't god tier if that's the case.

@man_of_miracles: I don't know why keep mentioning distance when its a non factor here at all @jatom22 is comparing Mimihagi's speed to Ichigo's speed (which should be waay higher than mach 90) we don't need distance here, also Mimihagi travelled to soul palace Yhwach reacted and absorbed him then sent back those black eyeball creatures to soul society while urhahara and the others were still in the same position so yea no way its 5 minutes.

@hypebeastcsb15: 1) There is a ton of argument surrounding Ichigo reacting to a "mach 500 attack". Namely that Gin is a liar (about his bankai as specifically even) and nothing shows it's that fast. But I'm not going to argue that here it's already in tons of other threads.

But that is combat speed not travel, they are most certainly not equal. I'm fact combat speed and burst speed is typically far faster especially when we are talking about travel over and entire day.

2) I'm not making an appeal to reality. I'm arguing the likelihood of that distance and speed in Bleach. If we take that calc at face value it's an absolutely absurd outlier. No other speed feat even including God tiers comes anywhere close.

Not to mention the distance. The largest indication we get of size in Bleach is statements that the SS and possibly Hueco Mundo are the size of the human world.

How then knowing that can we possibly think that the distance from the Royal Palace to the SS is 23x larger than the circumference of the Earth? Especially when there is nothing indicating that kind of distance other than a calc which makes assumptions about every single variable.

@hypebeastcsb15: 1) Literally the only person that claimed Gin's bankai is mach 500 is Gin himself who we know is unreliable when it comes to statements about his bankai. A character statement like Gin's shouldn't be accepted without further backing evidence and there isn't any.

Any calc that puts Ichigo faster than mach 500 at the time of that feat would be an absurd highball.

2) Yes an outlier. The closest quantifiable speed feat is Icheibe's 1000 ri feat which is 4 digit to 5 digit mach at the absolute maximum. That thread is literally a bunch of Bleach fanboys agreeing with each other and reasonable people completely disagreeing. All that proves is you are likely to high ball Bleach which is no surprise as you are one of the biggest Bleach fanboys on this site (not an insult just a straight fact).

3) The calc makes assumptions about Ichigo's travel speed during his journey, the time frame of his journey and the timeframe of Mihimagi's feat.

The calc is literally only assumptions and doesn't have one actually provable variable in it. So I'm not sure what you are talking about.

https://www.t5forums.com/forum/the-vs-sections/general-discussion/calcs/52159-bleach-calc-mimihagi-s-speed-t5forums-edition-accepted

this is the best part of that to be honest