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#58 Posted by deactivated-5c60dc252a2af (5801 posts) - - Show Bio
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#59 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7530 posts) - - Show Bio
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#60 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7530 posts) - - Show Bio
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#61 Posted by DeathHero61 (18870 posts) - - Show Bio
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#62 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7530 posts) - - Show Bio
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#63 Posted by DeathHero61 (18870 posts) - - Show Bio
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#65 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7530 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump for some more attention

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#66 Posted by KingZod (4120 posts) - - Show Bio

That was...messy you guys T4V anyway

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#67 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7530 posts) - - Show Bio
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#68 Edited by DeathHero61 (18870 posts) - - Show Bio

@thenewguysnm1 said:
@deathhero61 said:

@thenewguysnm1: This weekend.

Cheeky bump

Look at my gallery, you'll see that I am making my post as we speak. I'll have it today or some time after midnight. I have to study for a makeup test.

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#69 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7530 posts) - - Show Bio
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#70 Posted by oceanmaster21 (15389 posts) - - Show Bio

T4v

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#71 Edited by DeathHero61 (18870 posts) - - Show Bio

To the Voters: This is a lengthy post, apologies in advance, feel free to skim through the post, I made a TLDR version at the very bottom of the topics discussed in this rebuttal.

@thenewguysnm1:

Most likely significantly less.
Most likely significantly less.

Counters: Madara

now let me not waste anyone's Frieza has a slight strength advantage simple as that now on to speed.

Slight? I disagree, quite frankly. But I won't press into raw physical strength unless needed, I am only focused on striking strength and offensive output.

Madara should be Massively faster than Frieza imo.

Here he out speeds Minato, who was the fastest Shinobi of his time(easily faster than A, who is faster than lightning ) just after he teleport ed. This was also before he obtained the second rinnegan,the rinnesharigan and before he absorbed the shinju.

I don't see how.

Goku as a Kid trained to be faster than lightning and actually dodged lightning in the anime

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb75AOE7f5U

As a kid. Again let me emphasize, as a kid. The series went through so much more scaling than Naruto did, so I think you should have an idea on how impressive that actually is. If you want I can go through a scan dump and to make it easier to understand.

There's also the feat I believed I showed in the opener where him and Piccolo cannot be perceived or tracked down by Kami who can keep track of everything happening on the planet along with sensing objects and people in the air currents. Along with the people he trained such as the earthlings, who could potentially do the same thing but better if they had his powers but at a higher level.

Faster than Kamui and Flying Thunder God both of these moves are nigh instant:

Reacted and kept up with 8 gates guy before gaining his extra rinnegan and absorbing the shinju tree amping him even more this is madaras most impressive speed feat as guy is relativistic.

I wouldn't say that, plus reacting to a teleblitz isn't that impressive, and although reaction time and speed does play a factor, there's also skill and intuition involved. Plus you cannot quantify "nigh instant". Frieza in his base final form, had no issue reacting to a yadrat, which are an alien race that use a superior version of Flying Thunder God called instant transmission. The Yadrat he was fighting was almost as good as Goku at using it based off feats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiRJMKJt_jA

Meanwhile, Gohan was having a lot more trouble.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT70T7Ve13k

Relativistic speeds are impressive, sure, but I don't see why Frieza couldn't replicate that seeing as certain characters like Goku, Piccolo and Vegeta have energy blasts that can cross interplanetary distances in a short period of time. As I already showed in my opener, Piccolo's moon busting energy blast reached the moon in a few seconds(lowball) and Master Roshi's Kamehameha(a technique, Krillin, Goku, Tien and Yamcha and Gohan all know) reached the moon in a similar time frame.(slower it seems)

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That's just as fast based off the distance alone from the moon and the earth.

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In just to further support the theory of Ki blasts speed, we have seen several characters with projectiles ranging from massively hypersonic(Z-Fighters) LS(Cell, Frieza, Goku, Broly and more) to MFTL(Beerus and Champa) I can provide examples for each if needed. I don't want to clutter this post.

madara is faster than Frieza and will have no problem reacting to him as he is sub-relativistic(Low ball).

Not really. They are either A) Roughly in the same ballpark with Frieza having a fair advantage or B) Frieza is massively faster based off a larger set of scaling.

Now i originally was gonna post alot of durability feats but as he is an immortal so this is unnecessary,Though we agreed to nerf his immortality but that does not nerf his regen,the only we he dies is if Frieza wrecks him with a aoe attack,he has izanagi so i doubt that would even work

Madara mentions after he absorbs the Shinju he says that he is now completely immortal therefore unkillable

Being cut in half doesn't even inconvenience Madara:

Okay doesn't mean he cannot be incapacitated. And Izanagi didn't do him that good against Naruto and Sasuke when they managed to successfully get him on the ropes several times. He only used Izanagi once IIRC.

Okay but a decent potency attack could get the job done just as well, it doesn't have to be a AOE attack, plus how fast is his regen? What has he regenerated from?

It would slow him down slightly, which matters in a 3v1.

It allows the user to manipulate attractive and repulsive forces, as well as manipulate the pull of gravity. It works on both objects and people.

Its a good thing Frieza also has telekinesis.

Madara can spam Chibaku tensei's and drop them like meteors. Casual country busting feat

And Frieza could snipe each one as they are coming down or just outrace them.

Allows the user to read the mind of any target they lay their hands upon, it also allows them to rip the targets soul out of their bodies

But that technique requires physical contact, plus I don't see it working on Frieza. The reason why I asked for Frieza's skill feats and experience from DBS while still retaining his DBZ level stats, is because he becomes a lot more competent due to his stay in hell. Via mental concentration, learns how to control Ki, and gains an indomitable will that allows him to resist soul cleansing and existence erasing attacks.

@apex_pretador: takes the credit for this analysis

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How does an EXISTENCE ERASING ATTACK given by a god of destruction fare against Freeza?

I'll let you guess

before answering

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Absolutely Jackshit

Existence erasing >>>> Soul burning and Evil burning

Existence >>> Soul and Evil which are, but just, a subset of existence of a being

Oh, and the energy of destruction has worked not only on fodder characters, but also on the following, erasing from existence :

  • Intangible Ghosts
  • An Entire City (I believe an entire planet as well once, but I will need to check again to confirm)(the city just vanished into nothing/was erased)
  • Gods powerful enough to go toe to toe with Super Saiyan 2 Goku

and more

Summary note 1: Freeza got hit by an existence-erasing attack created by GoD of Destruction and not only does he survive it, but he withstands it and forces it into his own control.

And IF THAT'S NOT ENOUGH

Freeza was in HELL for 3+7+4+1=15 years

Then AGAIN for 3 or 4 years

but his will only got tougher

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Even King Yemma/Enma, the manager/boss/controller of afterlife for earth, couldn't do anything to clean his soul/spirit, and would rather not deal with his soul at all(Edit: he's the one who helped reincarnate Majin Buu who is more powerful than Frieza so that says something)

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Okay, so to further elaborate on this

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Evil people don't get their bodies to be retained and only their spirit passes through afterlife.

Your spirit will be cleaned, you will get new existence

Truth seeking balls/orbs are malleable spheres of black chakra composed of all 5 nature transformations and Yin-Yang release. They can be molded and shaped in different ways for a variety of purposes. Any power that comes in contact with the orbs will be negated, and the TSB have the ability to disintegrate all matter at a molecular level, completely destroying what they touch and nullifying regeneration of the Edo (similar to Dust Release and All-Killing Ash Bones).So yeah if saitama touches the tsb he is dead

These would work far more effectively than Regular Rasenshurikens. Admittedly, but I cannot see it working out on Frieza due to his durability. Plus his time in hell made his Ki Control more refined, to the point of being able to manipulate and defend against a GoD's energy. I think at the very least if he cannot outright tank it, he can resist it or defend against it. Especially since Chakara is just another form of energy. (an inferior one)

I wanna take note, that Frieza never makes it a habit to tank attacks, he either counters with his own or dodges. He doesn't willingly take attacks often. Especially not after his training in hell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIibVu0Lm3E

He was able to discern that the energy Sidra's goon had was a unique one, and was cautious enough to avoid and destroy it twice before it could be used to target him.

Limbo hengoku

Madara creates invisible clones that exist in a dimension known as Limbo. The clones operate independently of the user and are impossible to detect or touch

If you do not mind, can you then remind me how Naruto and Sasuke dealt with the issue? Or at least how they were able to sense and defend themselves?

Upon regaining both of his Rinnegan, Madara was able to produce up to four shadows to aid him.

Are limbo clones something he would start off with?

The Tengei Shinsei is when Madara summons a massive meteor and drops down on his opponent,now whilst i by no means believe this will kill frieza i do believe it will be a good diversion.

The reason most people assume is that Frieza being the cocky asshole he is, would severely underestimate his opponent and not do shit, or maybe take attacks head on and see if he can tank them and all that, but he wouldn't. Tossing that meteor means you are trying to match him in raw power, having Frieza fight back with Ki blasts and such would not do your team any favors. IF your team truly does hold the speed advantage like you are implying, it would make so much more sense for them to engage him in CQC and make sure he doesn't use his AOE attacks or raw power. But even then, Frieza has one shot moves as well, he can utilizes pressure points and transfer his energy inside other people, pulling a Fist of The North Star and having them explode afterwards.

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  • You have no counter o the following Limbo,Chibaku Tensei, soul steal,gedo mazou

Limbo clones cannot harm him in any meaningful way, Chibaku Tensei? Another useless move that won't hurt or bind him in any meaningful way, soul steal won't work because, the equivalent of the Grim Reaper in Frieza's universe couldn't cleanse his soul, and due to his time in hell, not even a GoD's energy could either, his willpower and endurance is insane.

Counters: Naruto

so first up i will show you a relative fodder in KID Kakashi react to lightning.

Now the feat above is there just to give you a general idea of where characters in the verse are in terms of speed remember these are on panel speed feats unlike you with your head cannon.

Kid Kakashi isn't fodder, plus there was no indication of him getting faster since then. This is obviously an impressive feat for Kakashi considering Itachi, someone tiers above him, was able to react to lightning as well. Kakashi is one of the most impressive Naruto Mid-Tiers for a reason.

There's so much wrong with this sentence and its filled with double standards, especially in relation to the rest of your post.

Here Might guy warps space and absolutely blitzed jubbi madara(keep in in mind the madara naruto blitzed had 2 power ups after this) which is undeniably Relativistic could wank it to LS but i wont this alone means you get blitzed before realising there was ever a fight

You mention that the stuff I post is head canon, but the first feat you show is the one that has been the source of controversy and debate for months after that chapter released. Sure. My "head canon" is based off what literally happened and what is described. Not much different from this.

This is my final speed feat putting naruto at high relativistic or LS which is many times faster than anyone in the verse(Pre dragonball super)

And it is of course the most downplayed and subsequently wanked feat in the series and that is Naruto in a less controlled form dogging the light fang which has been confirmed LS.

Another feat that has been the source of controversy and debate, even more so than Frieza's death beams.

This works on a Cellular level so Kills Frieza.

Ok a few things

A) Yes it operates on a cellular level, but to what extent? What does that even mean? Kakazu was still living after being hit with the Rasenshuriken, so why would it kill Frieza who is several times more durable?

B) Is there any guarantee that it would go through Frieza's Ki Defenses? Barriers have been confirmed to be able to keep out poison,(Goku vs Lavender) and atomic/molecular absorption(Vegito vs Super Buu)

C) It wouldn't be far fetched to argue that Frieza could resist it, defend against it or even tank it like its nothing. He trained in hell and due to his further usage of Ki Control he was able to defend and resist Hakai energy(you could argue that it was the boost in power, which was minimal at best, but he had no training partners and couldn't move for years, the only thing he could do was mentally concentrate and focus on his energy control, hence why he was so eager to move around and kill Sidra's spies after reviving again, even if you wanna argue the Frieza I have now wouldn't be able to tank it, Frieza with the experience he has currently would be able to at least defend against it) like I showed above which is far more potent and dangerous. In addition powerful races like the saiyans and the frost demons can resist a special virus called the extinction bomb which can wipe out entire species from a planet.

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It can also be used on other races as well, Jaco was stationed on planet earth to get rid of a saiyan that was on his way to the planet.(who we now know as Goku) but Jaco confirms that the saiyans are too powerful of a race for it to work on, even with Goku as a child.(So Jaco has to resort to defeating them while they are young instead of resorting to other technological methods)

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D) What's stopping Frieza from harmlessly deflecting it with telekinesis, or intercepting it with a Ki blast?

E) Why would Frieza stand there and take it when a similar move is what took him down in the first place? Frieza by the end of Super is a lot more experienced and surprisingly less cocky despite what it seems, and fights a lot smarter.(He can now sense ki, and feel changes in the atmosphere like everyone else which is something he couldn't do before)

Long story short it seals you you have no feats against an attack of this nature therefore you are sealed.

Never starts off with this, like at all. He would use this mid-battle, after the battle has gone on for awhile and they realize that brute force is no longer an option. Your team won't survive long enough for them to resort to sealing, plus you still have to tag him.

this ignores durability and does not need contact to wreck you so again is another fight ender.

Can you elaborate on this? Any proof it actually ignores durability? And you are implying that H2H with Frieza is smart and would actually win you the fight. Meaning you think Naruto has the physical strength to harm him, which he doesn't.

  • He is faster than Frieza
  • more versatile
  • smarter
  • greater numbers via clone spam
  • Has several ways to beat Frieza
  • will blitz and one shot With a magnet release Rasengan
  • Havent needed durability feats as we can never be tagged

1. Not really, Frieza has practically the same tier level of feats, except better.

2. Frieza is decently versatile himself.

3. He is, but near the end of the series he relied on more brute force than strategy due to all the raw power he has at his disposal.

4. Which can all be wiped out with a single attack.

5. Most of them obsolete or overestimated.

6. He isn't going to blitz, and he won't start off with a sealing technique.

7. You're going to need them because you haven't addressed a damn thing.

Counters: Sasuke

A technique that manipulates attractive force (引力, inryoku) to pull matter towards the user at will. It has the same five second limit as the Shinra Tensei as stated by Chōji Akimichi. It is possible to attract multiple targets at once, causing them to collide with each other. The ability to manipulate attractive forces with this technique is granted by the Deva Path much like its counterpart Shinra Tensei.

So basically telekinesis, Frieza can break out of it.

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Sasuke later demonstrated the ability to perform Chibaku Tensei by clapping his hands, after first immobilising the tailed beasts, and then using them as substitutes for gravity cores and subduing them simultaneously. He is also able to remotely move the Chibaku Tensei he created.

This i irrefutably seals Frieza off so yeah another fight ender.

And? Why does this seal Frieza exactly? 8 Tails Naruto broke out of Pain's Chibaku Tensei, implying that the move is more of a physical obstruction, not a "magical" or "hax" one akin to sealing. So Frieza can muscle or blast his way out of it. With literally a wave of his hand he was able to destroy the small island and damage some of the surrounding ones.

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Anime Version: The shockwave spreads a lot farther, destroying nearby islands, and causing tsunamis a good distance across the planet, Piccolo was miles away from the fight, and he could feel the shockwave as well. Bulma meanwhile was also quite far and she was affected by the destruction. This attack affected the most of the planet. There was no indication that it was an energy attack asides from him powering up, which isn't enough, if it was kiai or a telekinetic attack, that's still insanely impressive. Either way, Frieza has the offensive ability to break through your attacks or counter your attacks with his own without having to use energy attacks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Hxvzd0QmBA

Sussanoo

Notice the size of the meteors

I know what's going on in these scans because I read naruto, but there is no guarantee that the voters will, you should probably explain what's happening in these scans.

  • Expert tactician(Planned his route to the Hokage position)
  • Is massively faster the hypersonic Frieza
  • Has Can easily blitz and slice Frieza in half
  • Has teleportation so can not get blitzed or tagged
  • Can solo in all honesty

1.Not really that impressive. Frieza conquered the entire universe systematically and has an entire army.

2. Except he is actually way faster than that.

3. Please fix your grammar.

4. At the cost of having to switch places with objects, so he has to keep track of his surroundings before he teleports.

5. If you truly believed that you would have made a Sasuke vs Frieza CAV instead of a Team Naruto vs Frieza CAV, while Nerfing Frieza. Heck you probably would make a CAV like this with the same exact rulings except with the restriction of no planet busting with virtually any character that isn't from Super.

Main Counters

Naruto has danger sensing he will not try and go blow for blow with Frieza even more so because Sasuke and Madara are there

Examples?

This is quite disappointing tbh all these techniques are worse versions of own teams moves

Lets go over them again and compare them to yours shall we? This time I'll elaborate on them too.

Frieza manipulates his energy for different kinds of attacks. For example his death beams. Laser beams with insane speed, destructive power and piercing power.

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The only move that compares to this technique is light fang, and it does not have the destructive power and speed potential that it has. On top of the fact that this move can be manipulated in several ways. For instance, he can create a cage of his death beams, by manipulating the shape of them.

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The nature of the energy is changed, and it acts as an electrified cage.

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He can also create dozens of homing lasers that seek out any targets.

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He can also create laser whips that can slice up the planet.

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He can produce Kiai's which are explosive telekinetic shockwaves that can be use to hit enemies from a range.

He also has telekinesis (and is way stronger than Piccolo who can lift Pyramids with TK and accidentally destroy the surrounding area by utilizing his TK)

Can Naruto or Sasuke ragdoll opponents or hit them with explosive telekinetic shockwaves with only a thought instead of obvious telegraphed telekinesis attempts? Can Sasuke, Naruto or Madara break out of a telekinetic grip?

Nobody on your team save Madara uses it offensively the way Frieza does. Also, Frieza could use telekinesis to stop some of your ranged attacks like Rasenshuriken, by controlling its path with telekinesis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSCr_w-DqtI

He also has feats of controlling non-physical stuff such as lava with his telekinesis so its definitely possible.

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He even famously killed Krillin with Telekinesis in a way I'm sure nobody on your team can replicate or counter.

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During his fight with Piccolo he was doing precisely aimed telekinetic attacks(either that or he was rapidly attacking him with the air pressure of his attacks) against Piccolo(in the anime these were just laser beams he couldn't react to)

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He even has a paralyzing energy technique that turns the target into a bomb essentially. Good luck avoiding this technique. Goku had to break out of it the instant it exploded. Despite having such speed, its easier said than done to pull something like that off.

You don't have techniques like this, nor do you have counter to it asides from Kamui.

Nice try hose were small hills

Actually, in the anime, it was a lot more visually impressive, they were a lot further from the ground and the also shook up the surrounding area and the bodies of water.

https://youtu.be/F0iWk2nLU3Y?t=35

These are great energy resistance feats but they do not help him agains slashing,molecula,cellular and fire based attacks so they are pretty irrelavant

Irrelevant, a planet's explosion would be like a grenade going off, mountains and continents of shrapnel flying at you, the boundless heat and energy attempting to vaporize you, there's no way your slashing attacks or fire attacks would do much damage.

As for molecular and cellular damage, yes the burden of proof is on me in that regard, although I have presented my case, just in case that isn't enough and its effectively debunked, I will also argue that you would also have to show some form of evidence. What degree of molecular and celluar attacks do you have? What feats do the characters it worked on have, to imply it is dangerous to Frieza? My argument isn't that your attacks are NLFs per se, but what feats do they have of note? Rasenshuriken is powerful for example, but limited in scope, it attacks on the cellular level but its not like it kills the target, Kakazu was defeated and still conscious, but the only noticeable difference is that he was cut all over, and couldn't move, and the technique was described as a poison by tsunade due to its effects. The 3rd Raikage tanked the attack easily but his only feats of durability is surviving the Biiju Bombs, and light speed travel, neither feat should be more impressive than surviving a planet's explosion. The TSB was compared to Onoki's jutsu but what feats does it have on its own that make its power impressive?

Again nice try, the dyspo proves that lightspeed movement was a very foreign concept before dyspo

now what does this mean for frieza well as he is light years below dyspo so i am going to be nice and say that he is mhs which is still slow as fuck in comparison to my team.Your attempt at trying to compare fireza to Dyspo i laughable at best.

???? How do you get that lightspeed is a foreign concept from that sentence??? If that's the case he wouldn't need to mention the speed of sound in the same sentence...... "through repeated battles he has surpassed the speed of sound and light" implying that they aren't foreign in the first place, in fact Dypso himself is even faster than lightspeed based off that statement, especially since he has a technique that further boosts his speed times a thousand in the first place, along with another technique that allows him to fight at his max speed. Plus this is such a copout attempt in actually addressing the feats I presented in the first place.

I wasn't comparing Frieza to dypso you dolt, I mentioned the statement to prove light speed is actually possible in the series in the first place.

Whoa being FTE to a supersonic character real impressive

Okay.

Lmfao how on earth are piccolo and vegeta relativistic your clutching at straws and it is not even funny.

You are scaling off of hyperbolic statements which are debunked by the series it self.

The first Light speed character in DB is Dyspo simple as that no amount of wank and head cannon is gonna change that.

Same way Frieza is light speed, the feats I presented earlier. Piccolo's energy blast was able to reach the moon from the earth in a few seconds at best. That distance is astronomically huge.

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This is backed by several feats that are exceedingly similar. Goku vs Cooler for example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bscHl76z3bk

A kamehameha that went from the earth to the freaking sun.

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The characters on several occasions reacted to each other's attacks, outpacing them, countering them, perceiving them etc. etc. Again, this version of Goku was a bit stronger than Frieza, so I won't use this to scale Frieza, but again to show proof backing my claims.(So I expect you to do the same with all your abilities that you claim will one shot Frieza, or will immediately end the fight)

What stats other then dc and energy durability does he out class my team in.

I'm not sure If I can confidently argue strength considering the The Last, and The Boruto Movie, but he definitely surpasses them in durability and dc, along with potentially speed. Naruto and Sasuke from my understand cap out around light speed, meanwhile, assuming you agree with the feats I presented Frieza's FTL(blitzed Goku who reacted to a light based attack as previously shown)

We are superior in the following stats

  • Versatility Frieza is decently versatile himself, the difference here is that a lot of his abilities have a more practical application against his opponents here as opposed to his normal opponents who could counter or resist a lot of the moves I showed in this post.
  • hax A lot of your hax you wouldn't start off with in character.
  • one shot moves Almost everything Frieza can do would result in a one shot.
  • numbers The instant they attempt to abuse numbers, Frieza could easily start using his ki attacks.
  • smarts Barely elaborated on any intellectual feats or strategy based feats in order for me to even possibly contest this.
  • precog Barely elaborated on this either.
  • Skill Not even remotely close, Frieza has kept up with the series most impressive close quarters combatants, including Goku who has won multiple martial arts tournaments against all breeds of fighters of different disciplines, has beaten military trained combatants such as General Blue, took down an entire army(which although doesn't sound impressive, in the feat in question he showed some decent battlefield awareness,) fought the world's greatest assassin, has trained with and defeated the world's greatest martial arts masters, and has even trained with gods with thousands to millions of years of experience. Goku even bragged one time about having the opportunity to train with warriors across history, due to being dead.
  • lives through izanagi Madara only used it once, correct me If I am wrong, its been awhile. And it was a plot related usage during a flashback, if he actually used it in combat against Naruto and Sasuke and against the other ninjas during the 4th grade war, i'll concede on that point, but otherwise, I don't see the point of mentioning.

What do you mean? It means everything he has no feats in a certain area therefore he can not tank many attack how about a list them for you The problem I sort of just realized with a lot of Naruto's hax, they don't really have much to them, there isn't much backing their feats as a whole, especially on a high-tier level.

    • Sealing Won't be used till late game
    • Tp We ruled that there will be no Genjutsu
    • TK Frieza's is just as good, plus he can break out of it. Why wouldn't he be able to "tank" telekinesis assaults?
    • Soul Steal Already addressed, the grim reaper of the verse couldn't touch his soul, neither will you.
    • Shirna Tensei Not a game changer what so ever, especially since the only thing you are planning to do with the move is restrict his movement, you have no game plan whatsoever.
    • Universal pull Elaborate please?
    • Cellular Attacks You have to elaborate on their degree of effectiveness in order to prove why it would specifically kill Frieza when it couldn't kill Raikage and Kakazu. Or at least show feats of the characters in question to protect its credibility, or show who or what its been used on.
    • Molecular attacks Same as Cellular attacks, plus Frieza with his experience Post-Super doesn't recklessly take attacks he is unfamiliar with now. If he's familiar with the type of attack it is, he would most likely underestimate it and get himself killed,(Refer to the Frieza vs Toppo fight) for example, I will admit that if Frieza successfully got hit by a Rasengan, and Frieza survived, and saw you use Magnet Release Rasengan to seal, there's a good chance he won't pick up on it unless it looks like you're planning a strategy to do something different.(meaning under normal circumstances he would underestimate Naruto "using the same futile move" and get sealed.
    • Slashing attacks Useless? You barely elaborated on why they would actually kill Frieza in the first place, you just said they would without showing any feats. Goku as a kid tanked an axe being slammed on his head, and the axe itself broke.
    • Burning attacks He was in the middle of a planetary explosion, the amount of energy and heat that would have to give off is insane. And you think burning attacks would be more effective? I would like to add that Frieza can survive the vacuum of space as well, meaning the radiation on top of the other things most people would be killed by in space doesn't harm him either.
    • TSB Frieza wouldn't take it head on, especially if Naruto decided to use it in conjunction with his other attacks.
    • Clone spam That would encourage Frieza all the more to use his more powerful AOE attacks or increased potency attacks,(something that you stated your team was going to avoid allowing him to do)
    • High level blunt force Meh.
    • Lightning attacks Okay???? I feel like you are just mentioning irrelevant abilities to make it seem like you have a variety of options.

Considering he is a literal statue to my team i think he has to try alot

You barely addressed speed and immediately called it head canon, I don't think you can make such a claim if you didn't touch the speed feats I mentioned and only used a copout statement relating to Dyspo that means little to nothing, and doesn't necessarily discredit what has been shown so far regardless.

Really? Not soul steal,fire style,TK,TP Tsb,Chidori,Sussanno etc and the other dozen one shot moves.

Soul Steal? Addressed, Fire Style isn't doing shit, TP isn't allowed, Chidori isn't going to do anything either and even if it does, Frieza wouldn't allow himself to get tagged by it, he would most likely just intercept it, and Sussano is another one of the many moves your characters have that would encourage Frieza to actually do something.

  1. Whilst i do believe you can kill my team via a massive aoe attack that is massively out of character for frieza to do from the get go(we also would not let him).But speaking honestly Frieza is likely to do what he did vs Nail and some of the other Nameks and stand there and try and tank are attacks head on this obviously will be the death of him.

He was interrogating Nail for information and already knew he posed no threat to him due to his scouter scanning his power level. Hence why he was laid back in the situation.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7Gallery image 8Gallery image 9Gallery image 10

Frieza is as much of a dope as you are making him out to be.

Even against Krillin, Piccolo, Gohan and Vegeta he actually bothered to dodge attacks,

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

And deflect them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQxXQf8xUWQ

  1. My team have a ridiculous speed advantage to the point where frieza will be moving in slow motion,in fact frieza will not be moving at all as he would be blitzed.

That's only if you interpret the Dypso statement they way you did, otherwise you don't have a case whatsoever and Frieza is either A) In the same tier but just a bit faster, or B) absurdly faster.

  1. Frieza is not very smart and cannot sense energy if for some reason a blitz does not work any sort of stealth attack would do the job as he cannot sense energy.

Ummm why do you think I asked for DBS skill feats? Frieza trained after reviving and learned how to sense Ki.

And even with his back turnt he can react to enemies rushing him from behind, implying he can sense attacks he's not even looking at, similar to all the Z-Fighters who trained with Kami.

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  1. All in all a Frieza really stands no chance against my team as he is outmatched in practically every stat bar DC,DCwhich Ic he would not even pull off,Team naruto stomp low diff.

I think you are severely overestimating the naruto team while severely downplaying Frieza.

Brief Summary on debate so far for the voters(TLDR VERSION)

This is pretty much what we talked about in case you couldn't keep track. Obviously not everything is here. And also what happened so far.

Physicals- It pretty much centered around speed, the other stats were barely mentioned, but his claim is that Frieza only has DC and "energy durability" to his name, but the level of "energy durability" feats he has is on such an astonishing level that split durability legit doesn't matter. So he's durable enough to tank standard attacks from the Naruto team, we talked about speed, but it was mostly centered around statements and credibility. New Guy claiming I am making hyperbolic statements, while using databooks to back his claims the same databook that states Temari can blow away the universe, and also brought up the Dypso statement made by toppo, and I argued that his interpretation of the statement's meaning is wrong and that even if we wanted to continue bringing up the argument, at least address my "head canon"

Versatility, and the factor it play- The biggest argument I made was in character tendencies, and whether or not they would use certain moves like sealing by the time the battle ends. I admitted that Frieza could potentially fall prey to certain techniques if they don't let on that they are plotting against Frieza.(like making strategies and ploys, and acting and mobilizing in certain ways different from how they were initially.) Otherwise Frieza might pick up on it like he did with the Assassins. But most of the other techniques the team has wouldn't really be effective. Amaratsu doesn't ignore durability, its heat is impressive, but the reason why its dangerous is because it constantly burns, Rasenshuriken isn't a surefire way to kill Frieza, and most of the team's standard attacks wouldn't be effective, which is why hax has been the center of New Guy's strategy. My claim is that they won't get to use the hax that will be a threat until it is too late.

Comparison of Abilities and utilities, along with continued side tangents on in character tendencies- New Guy argued that Frieza's techniques were simply inferior versions of the techniques his team already had, so I elaborated on the extent and the effectiveness of Frieza with his abilities to compare. And in some areas Frieza is actually better than the Naruto Team. Frieza uses TK in so many more ways than the Naruto team, and has one shot moves that are just as effective, especially in CQC. His death beams are way more impressive than Madara's light fang, to name an example.

Effectiveness of Hax and the abilities the Naruto Team has to offer- This is important, New Guy mentioned the hax abilities his team had, but barely elaborated on their effectiveness, and how they are used, and who they were used on, or why it would work on Frieza. He simply said " this will kill Frieza easily low diff, hue hue" he didn't outright say "Frieza doesn't have the resistance feats for this" or "Frieza doesn't have the feats to suggest he could survive this" or did any comparisons whatsoever, he barely set up the debate. My question to him regarding his hax is "How effective is it? Who did it work on? To what scale can this hax be taken to? Any proof it could work on someone with level *insert generic tier title* durability?" Rasenshuriken for example, it didn't kill Kakazu, why would it kill Frieza? It didn't kill the Third Raikage, why would it kill Frieza? At most you could have argued, that the cellular damage would have been enough to immobilize Frieza briefly or enough to slow him down to make it far easier to blitz and tag him. Or maybe argue that it could have disrupt Ki Flow since it managed to sever Naruto's chakara network, throwing the threat of him not being able to use chakara again because it cut certain nerves and cells in his body. But you didn't even bother.

To end this post

  • Frieza is either in their ballpark so he won't be getting blitzed, or he is fast enough to do the blitzing.
  • Frieza won't play around as much as you think he would and evidence suggests as much
  • Frieza has the power and versatility to actually overwhelm the team almost immediately.
  • Your hax either won't be as effective as you think or you won't get a chance to use it.
  • Standard attacks(which your team will start off with) won't be effective against Frieza due to his endurance and level of power, and if you attempt to match him in raw power, that is the exact instant you lose this battle.
  • You do not have perfect teamwork.

Your Move

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#72 Posted by Lan_Fan (15941 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll keep an eye on this thread.

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#73 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7530 posts) - - Show Bio

Time to get serious

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#74 Posted by DeathHero61 (18870 posts) - - Show Bio

@thenewguysnm1: Is there anything you would like to clarify before making your next post? Just so we are on the same page about the CAV in general?

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#75 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7530 posts) - - Show Bio

@thenewguysnm1: Is there anything you would like to clarify before making your next post? Just so we are on the same page about the CAV in general?

Not much.I see why you wanted skill feats for Frieza but its fine, good stuff.

I may take a little while to respond

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#76 Posted by HitTheAssasin (8461 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, Newguys is screwed.

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#77 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7530 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, Newguys is screwed.

Am really not but i will prove that in my next post.

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#78 Edited by DeathHero61 (18870 posts) - - Show Bio

@hittheassasin said:

Well, Newguys is screwed.

Nah, this depends entirely on how he handles his next post. He actually has a chance of winning, as long as he doesn't mess up, this will be a great debate.

Edit: Lmao looking at his image gallery he's going with the "use my past arguments on battle forums against me" plan.

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#82 Posted by DeathHero61 (18870 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump for attention

??? Why don't you just make your post?

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#83 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7530 posts) - - Show Bio
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#84 Posted by KingogKings777 (2270 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

Online
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#88 Posted by Sivil-Law (615 posts) - - Show Bio

This is practically Naruto Team vs Dragon Ball Super Frieza. I don't understand people on this site.

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#90 Posted by IceHeart_30 (1100 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#91 Posted by Lan_Fan (15941 posts) - - Show Bio
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Wow... Really?

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#92 Posted by Thenewguysnm1 (7530 posts) - - Show Bio

@lan_fan: Don't clutter the thread if you have a problem PM me

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#93 Posted by Lan_Fan (15941 posts) - - Show Bio

@thenewguysnm1: From what I understand, I didn't say anything offensive to derail your thread and I didn't post feats or interfere with your arguments either.

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#95 Edited by Thenewguysnm1 (7530 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61:

The Ultimate Shinobi Threesome

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In character tendencies

Now before i get into the counters i have to address a couple of things let's get into it shall we.

The first thing is that Frieza is extremely cocky and would tank attacks he sees as beneath him. If you want proof well click the links below.

Exhibit A

Exhibit B

Exhibit C

So yeah this show that In character frieza will certainly try and tank my teams attacks,unfortunately for him my teams attacks aren't regular attacks so will attack him in ways he has no counter for.

Counters: Naruto

Kid Kakashi isn't fodder, plus there was no indication of him getting faster since then. This is obviously an impressive feat for Kakashi considering Itachi, someone tiers above him, was able to react to lightning as well. Kakashi is one of the most impressive Naruto Mid-Tiers for a reason.

I said a Relative as in compared to my team, Naruto literally Surpassed him over 6 transformations ago if you want me to state them i can.

You mention that the stuff I post is head canon, but the first feat you show is the one that has been the source of controversy and debate for months after that chapter released. Sure. My "head canon" is based off what literally happened and what is described. Not much different from this.

Warping space is a LS feat that is scientific fact, it also makes sense as Madara able to literally spit lightspeed attacks

Another feat that has been the source of controversy and debate, even more so than Frieza's death beams.

Not a counter so i'm gonna take it as a concession thanks.

A) Yes it operates on a cellular level, but to what extent? What does that even mean? Kakazu was still living after being hit with the Rasenshuriken, so why would it kill Frieza who is several times more durable?

Yes this is wrong Kakazu literally died three times.Now for those unaware of Kakazu he is pseudo immortal who prolongs his life by taking the hearts of others this also gives him extra lives.When clicking this LINK keep in mind that those little faces very close to Kakazu are the hearts that BASE naruto destroyed.Meaning he killed him not once but twice.

B) Is there any guarantee that it would go through Frieza's Ki Defenses? Barriers have been confirmed to be able to keep out poison,(Goku vs Lavender) and atomic/molecular absorption(Vegito vs Super Buu)

So your way to prove Frieza can counter is to show me feats of Vegito and Goku also the Buu feat was transmutation not atomic dismantling.What ki defenses? The defenses Nail bypassed as well as countless nameks who let hit him(which he would do here)

Also just to elaborate further Frieza does not have a choice my team are faster so will land whether or not you like it.

C) It wouldn't be far fetched to argue that Frieza could resist it,

Yes it would we do things by feats here on CV by feats not by whats far fetched and ,so again show me cellular durability feats? or concede the point those are your only options.

defend against it or even tank it like its nothing. He trained in hell and due to his further usage of Ki Control he was able to defend and resist Hakai energy(you could argue that it was the boost in power, which was minimal at best, but he had no training partners and couldn't move for years, the only thing he could do was mentally concentrate and focus on his energy control, hence why he was so eager to move around and kill Sidra's spies after reviving again, even if you wanna argue the Frieza I have now wouldn't be able to tank it, Frieza with the experience he has currently would be able to at least defend against it) like I showed above which is far more potent and dangerous. In addition powerful races like the saiyans and the frost demons can resist a special virus called the extinction bomb which can wipe out entire species from a planet.

  1. You are representing Namek Frieza what are you getting at???
  2. Show me feats or concede
  3. Golden frieza tanked hakai not final form or base.
  4. please stop trying to subvert the attention away from your lack of feats.

D) What's stopping Frieza from harmlessly deflecting it with telekinesis, or intercepting it with a Ki blast?

Like he used his TK on kienzan right? or like he used on nails ki blast,or the spirit bomb or the nameks punch he totally just uses his Tk to brush attack aside(sarcasm he does not and will not)

E) Why would Frieza stand there and take it when a similar move is what took him down in the first place? Frieza by the end of Super is a lot more experienced and surprisingly less cocky despite what it seems, and fights a lot smarter.(

You do know you are representing Namek fireza not sure why you keep bringing up super.

Never starts off with this, like at all. He would use this mid-battle, after the battle has gone on for awhile and they realize that brute force is no longer an option. Your team won't survive long enough for them to resort to sealing, plus you still have to tag him.

You have no idea what your talking about!!

If you skip the convo and filler he does this pretty soon after Sasuke gets there

Can you elaborate on this? Any proof it actually ignores durability? And you are implying that H2H with Frieza is smart and would actually win you the fight. Meaning you think Naruto has the physical strength to harm him, which he doesn't.

We have a speed advantage a rasengan chidori combo kills frieza.A tsb which Frieza will likely touch also kills him

1. Not really, Frieza has practically the same tier level of feats, except better.

2. Frieza is decently versatile himself.

3. He is, but near the end of the series he relied on more brute force than strategy due to all the raw power he has at his disposal.

4. Which can all be wiped out with a single attack.

5. Most of them obsolete or overestimated.

6. He isn't going to blitz, and he won't start off with a sealing technique.

7. You're going to need them because you haven't addressed a damn thing.

  1. Your gonna have to prove that.
  2. Not really all he has is.Tk and energy projection you can not compare it to my team who have over 20 techniques each
  3. So he isn't thanks.
  4. Not when he is getting restrained by 25 wood clones,1000 shadow clones as well as 4 invisible limbo clones
  5. Gonna have to prove that.
  6. Yes he will or at the very least could with LS movement
  7. Not really

Counters: Madara

Slight? I disagree, quite frankly. But I won't press into raw physical strength unless needed, I am only focused on striking strength and offensive output.

If you will not press into raw physical strength then its a concession,good to know we wont have to talk about it anymore

I don't see how.Goku as a Kid trained to be faster than lightning and actually dodged lightning in the anime

You are scaling off of a filler scene that's poor form.Nice try though

There's also the feat I believed I showed in the opener where him and Piccolo cannot be perceived or tracked down by Kami who can keep track of everything happening on the planet along with sensing objects and people in the air currents. Along with the people he trained such as the earthlings, who could potentially do the same thing but better if they had his powers but at a higher level.

He was FTE to Kami how exactly is that impressive to ftl characters.

I wouldn't say that, plus reacting to a teleblitz isn't that impressive, and although reaction time and speed does play a factor, there's also skill and intuition involved. Plus you cannot quantify "nigh instant". Frieza in his base final form, had no issue reacting to a yadrat, which are an alien race that use a superior version of Flying Thunder God called instant transmission. The Yadrat he was fighting was almost as good as Goku at using it based off feats.

That's great but i think you forgot that you are representing namek saga Frieza not current.

Relativistic speeds are impressive, sure, but I don't see why Frieza couldn't replicate that seeing as certain characters like Goku, Piccolo and Vegeta have energy blasts that can cross interplanetary distances in a short period of time. As I already showed in my opener, Piccolo's moon busting energy blast reached the moon in a few seconds(lowball) and Master Roshi's Kamehameha(a technique, Krillin, Goku, Tien and Yamcha and Gohan all know) reached the moon in a similar time frame.(slower it seems)

These feats are unquantifiable at best. why? Well you said a few seconds but that does not really tell me anything a few seconds could be 3 second-10 seconds-59 seconds.The number is very important and the number does not exist.

That's just as fast based off the distance alone from the moon and the earth.

In just to further support the theory of Ki blasts speed, we have seen several characters with projectiles ranging from massively hypersonic(Z-Fighters) LS(Cell, Frieza, Goku, Broly and more) to MFTL(Beerus and Champa) I can provide examples for each if needed. I don't want to clutter this post.

Cell,Broly and Goku are light years ahead of Frieza so if they are only LS(You admitted this) then Frieza should be significantly slower.I still have no idea why you would even bring up beerus and champa.

Not really. They are either A) Roughly in the same ballpark with Frieza having a fair advantage or B) Frieza is massively faster based off a larger set of scaling.

Yeah there is no way Frieza is "Massively" faster at best he is a bit slower.

Okay doesn't mean he cannot be incapacitated. And Izanagi didn't do him that good against Naruto and Sasuke when they managed to successfully get him on the ropes several times. He only used Izanagi once IIRC.

He did not use Izanagi because he was immortal the only reason i brought it up is because you wanted to nerf immortality,though only a large scale aoe blast can counter his regen.

Okay but a decent potency attack could get the job done just as well, it doesn't have to be a AOE attack, plus how fast is his regen? What has he regenerated from?

You want feats here you go...

Tanked naruto's Magma Rasenshuriken and survived being cut in half by Sasuke then proceeds to regenerate.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Another great feat is when here regenerates half of his body(Note this is before he absorbed the God tree which is what gave his immortality and heightened his regen)So yeah the only way to beat Madara is if you Destroy his whole body,unfortunately for you he has 2 eyes he can use izanagi with he also has his 3rd eye that he may be able to use it to so yeah your gonna have to kill him 3 or 4 times.So yeah here's the feat....

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These would work far more effectively than Regular Rasenshurikens. Admittedly, but I cannot see it working out on Frieza due to his durability. Plus his time in hell made his Ki Control more refined, to the point of being able to manipulate and defend against a GoD's energy. I think at the very least if he cannot outright tank it, he can resist it or defend against it. Especially since Chakara is just another form of energy. (an inferior one)

I see what your doing here and i have to put a stop to it.You can NOT keep saying his durability is to high so an attack will not affect him you have to show feats so can i have molecular and cellular durability feats for Namek Frieza while your at it can i have some piercing durability feats for Frieza as the last time he was hit by a cutting attack he did not have torso

If you do not mind, can you then remind me how Naruto and Sasuke dealt with the issue? Or at least how they were able to sense and defend themselves?

Sasuke has a six paths Rinnegan and Naruto has Six paths sage mode Naruto could "feel them"Sasuke can see them

Are limbo clones something he would start off with?

Yes he literally starts with it in every match(uses it to stomp the biju and co, he also uses it to hold off naruto and sasuke whilst prepping IT)

The reason most people assume is that Frieza being the cocky asshole he is, would severely underestimate his opponent and not do shit, or maybe take attacks head on and see if he can tank them and all that, but he wouldn't. Tossing that meteor means you are trying to match him in raw power, having Frieza fight back with Ki blasts and such would not do your team any favors. IF your team truly does hold the speed advantage like you are implying, it would make so much more sense for them to engage him in CQC and make sure he doesn't use his AOE attacks or raw power. But even then, Frieza has one shot moves as well, he can utilizes pressure points and transfer his energy inside other people, pulling a Fist of The North Star and having them explode afterwards.

The limbos as well as Naruto and Sasuke will fight him in CQC the meteor is just a distraction.

Can i have some feats for the fodder that he one shot.Did it help against Goku or Jiren or Dyspo or you know every other fight he had since then.

Limbo clones cannot harm him in any meaningful way, Chibaku Tensei? Another useless move that won't hurt or bind him in any meaningful way, soul steal won't work because, the equivalent of the Grim Reaper in Frieza's universe couldn't cleanse his soul, and due to his time in hell, not even a GoD's energy could either, his willpower and endurance is insane.

Yeah i'm not sure what your tryna say here if its that souls steal wont work you mistaken.His soul not being"cleansed"has absolutely nothing to do with it being stolen all together.

Counters: Sasuke

So basically telekinesis, Frieza can break out of it.

No he cant he has never broke out of a attack of this scale meaning he can not break out.

Susanoo

Notice the size of the meteors

1.Not really that impressive. Frieza conquered the entire universe systematically and has an entire army.

Frieza did it through brawn not intelect,also king cold gave him the territory

2. Except he is actually way faster than that.

Yeah i made a slight mistake lol,Sasuke is lightspeed at the very least but is really FTL(blitzed a guy who reacted to natural light)

3. Please fix your grammar.

That's not a counter stop trying to subvert my and the voters attention.

4. At the cost of having to switch places with objects, so he has to keep track of his surroundings before he teleports.

Firstly his move works like this he sees something he can swap place.Secondly how is that relevant we have established my team will have no problem tagging and reacting to Frieza.

5. If you truly believed that you would have made a Sasuke vs Frieza CAV instead of a Team Naruto vs Frieza CAV,

The only reason i did not make it a Sasuke vs Frieza CAV is because it has already been done also i said he could solo.

while Nerfing Frieza.

What are you talking about i am the only one that's been nerfed.you have nerfed Genjutsu and you wanted to nerf Limbo heck we even nerfed BFR.Your the one who has been amped as i have given you the following

  • Dbs skill feats
  • Mecha frieza feats

The only thing i have "Nerfed" is Planet busting and that is for obvious reasons

Heck you probably would make a CAV like this with the same exact rulings except with the restriction of no planet busting with virtually any character that isn't from Super.

What the heck are you trying to say of course i would nerf planet busting as my characters can not survive in space.

Main Counters

The only move that compares to this technique is light fang, and it does not have the destructive power and speed potential that it has. On top of the fact that this move can be manipulated in several ways. For instance, he can create a cage of his death beams, by manipulating the shape of them.

I'm gonna tell you this again you are representing Frieza from Namek not golden frieza.

If final form frieza did this i could understand but golden no thank you.

He also has feats of controlling non-physical stuff such as lava with his telekinesis so its definitely possible.

Thats a filler scene.

He even famously killed Krillin with Telekinesis in a way I'm sure nobody on your team can replicate or counter.

Our TK is a lot different we push with are TK Frieza uses it differently he only uses it in his final form(even then its rare)so ti will be a end game technique

Actually, in the anime, it was a lot more visually impressive, they were a lot further from the ground and the also shook up the surrounding area and the bodies of water.

Still a hill.

Irrelevant, a planet's explosion would be like a grenade going off, mountains and continents of shrapnel flying at you, the boundless heat and energy attempting to vaporize you, there's no way your slashing attacks or fire attacks would do much damage.

Can i have a scan of the shrapnel flying at him he was almost died btw.So yeah i'm gonna need those feats btw.

As for molecular and cellular damage, yes the burden of proof is on me in that regard,

Great soo where are those feats.

although I have presented my case,

What case have you presented im still waiting for those scans.

jus I will also argue that you would also have to show some form of evidence.

What more evidence can i show you? Were the scans not enough?!

to imply it is dangerous to Frieza?

NO! I am not gonna let you do this to me show me my scans or concede the point simple as that.

My argument is that your attacks are NLFs per se,

This is a message to the voters what Death is trying to is cover up for the fact he has no feats to suggest Frieza can defend against certain types of attacks so he is saying that it is a NLF.Laughable.

not like it kills the target, Kakazu was defeated and still conscious,

The move literally Killed Kaka\u twice but again nice try.

???? How do you get that lightspeed is a foreign concept from that sentence??? If that's the case he wouldn't need to mention the speed of sound in the same sentence...... "through repeated battles he has surpassed the speed of sound and light" implying that they aren't foreign in the first place, in fact Dypso himself is even faster than lightspeed based off that statement, especially since he has a technique that further boosts his speed times a thousand in the first place, along with another technique that allows him to fight at his max speed. Plus this is such a copout attempt in actually addressing the feats I presented in the first place.I wasn't comparing Frieza to dypso you dolt, I mentioned the statement to prove light speed is actually possible in the series in the first place.

  1. It says through repeated battles he has surpassed speed of sound and light that means they have just surpassed light it's pretty simple.
  2. When does it say he can amp himself thousands of times
  3. Why the Fuck(mind my french) are you comparing Dyspo to Frieza that is like me comparing Choji to Madara the power gap is so large you cant even scale the two
  4. are trying to say Namek frieza is relative to Dyspo?
  5. Dyspo is SSB level now to give you a quick scale of how large the gap is i will show you how much stronger dyspo is.
  6. Sbb goku>=Dyspo(Light speed)>>SSG Goku>>>>>>>SS3 Goku>>>>>>>>>SS2 Goku>>.SS1 gokux50>base Goku>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Namek Saga SS1 Goku>Full power Frieza
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Okay.

Not a counter.Concesion accepted

Same way Frieza is light speed, the feats I presented earlier. Piccolo's energy blast was able to reach the moon from the earth in a few seconds at best. That distance is astronomically huge.

The lack of a time frame means that feat is unquantifiable at best a outlier at worst.

This is backed by several feats that are exceedingly similar. Goku vs Cooler for example.

Both these characters are stronger then Frieza and both are non cannon movie characters.

I'm not sure If I can confidently argue strength considering the The Last, and The Boruto Movie, but he definitely surpasses them in durability and dc,

Energy and physical durability sure any other form hell no.

along with potentially speed

The fact you added the potentially means you are not certain i am certain that my team hold the speed advantage.

. Naruto and Sasuke from my understand cap out around light speed, meanwhile, assuming you agree with the feats I presented Frieza's FTL(blitzed Goku who reacted to a light based attack as previously shown)

Naruto and Sasuke are FTL as Naruto dogged light and Sasuke blitzed him

Also further proof that Frieza is not LS is the fact that he could not dogge the solar flare.

The solar flare is just a light based attack

hax A lot of your hax you wouldn't start off with in character.

Unlike you i am debating my characters properly

Madara has used Limbo in all of his fights

Sasuke chidori blitzes all the time my team always start off big

one shot moves Almost everything Frieza can do would result in a one shot.

Not really a counter but okay.

numbers The instant they attempt to abuse numbers, Frieza could easily start using his ki attacks.

He cant he will be impaled by a chakra rod or held off by 4 invisible undetectable Limbo clones

smarts Barely elaborated on any intellectual feats or strategy based feats in order for me to even possibly contest this.

Naruto and Sasuke have teamed together multiple times but let me give ya some links

1

2

3

lives through izanagi i'll concede on that point,

Fine.

The problem I sort of just realized with a lot of Naruto's hax, they don't really have much to them, there isn't much backing their feats as a whole, especially on a high-tier level.

Stop trying to subvert my attention show me my fucking feats or concede.

Sealing Won't be used till late game

Debunked.

Soul Steal Already addressed, the grim reaper of the verse couldn't touch his soul, neither will you.

Feats for the grim reaper?The two moves are different my one has better feats.

Shirna Tensei Not a game changer what so ever, especially since the only thing you are planning to do with the move is restrict his movement, you have no game plan whatsoever.

Lol it is there to keep you in are range though Limbo clones does that as well.

Cellular Attacks You have to elaborate on their degree of effectiveness in order to prove why it would specifically kill Frieza when it couldn't kill Raikage and Kakazu. Or at least show feats of the characters in question to protect its credibility, or show who or what its been used on.

Okay let me debunk this shit now.

1.Kakazu was literally killed twice stop lying.

The raikage was a immortal zombie(Edo tensei).You get it now

Just to explain the move(edo tensei) even more thoroughly i will give you the definition straight from the Naruto wiki.

The Summoning: Impure World Reincarnation binds the soul of a deceased person to a living vessel, restoring them as they were when they were alive in order to do their summoner's bidding. It was originally created by Tobirama Senju, some time after which he declared it a kinjutsu. Orochimaru would discover the technique decades later and improve on its use while his subordinate Kabuto Yakushi Nearly perfected the use of the kinjutsu.

One of the major benefits of the Impure World Reincarnation is that it grants immortal bodies to those who are reincarnated. Any damage they receive will regenerate in time ,they can continue attacking even before their body recovers. This was one of the main purposes Tobirama created the technique for, as he would use one or more reincarnated souls to perform a series of Kamikaze-like attacks until the opposition was wiped out;[19] he created the Mutually Multiplying Explosive Tagsspecifically for this purpose. Reincarnated bodies do not bleed, except in those cases where blood is needed to perform the Summoning Technique.[20]

Molecular attacks Same as Cellular attacks, plus Frieza with his experience Post-Super doesn't recklessly take attacks he is unfamiliar with now. If he's familiar with the type of attack it is, he would most likely underestimate it and get himself killed,(Refer to the Frieza vs Toppo fight) for example, I will admit that if Frieza successfully got hit by a Rasengan, and Frieza survived, and saw you use Magnet Release Rasengan to seal, there's a good chance he won't pick up on it unless it looks like you're planning a strategy to do something different.(meaning under normal circumstances he would underestimate Naruto "using the same futile move" and get sealed

Why the fuck would he be familiar with a attack he has never seen before?!

I don't understand what you're trying to say. You admit that he would underestimate my team which is all my team needs to kill the Bastard with a tsb one shot or a chidori one shots or a rasenshuriken one shot.

TSB Frieza wouldn't take it head on,

We have been through this he will.

High level blunt force Meh.

Not a counter

Lightning attacks Okay???? I feel like you are just mentioning irrelevant abilities to make it seem like you have a variety of options.

Show me some lightning resistance feats or concede he has none. He get killed by the electric shock,if you disagree show me some feats.

You barely addressed speed and immediately called it head canon, I don't think you can make such a claim if you didn't touch the speed feats I mentioned and only used a copout statement relating to Dyspo that means little to nothing, and doesn't necessarily discredit what has been shown so far regardless.

How is a author statement a cop out?

He was interrogating Nail for information and already knew he posed no threat to him due to his scouter scanning his power level. Hence why he was laid back in the situation.

I am glad you brought up the scouters as it will only assist my team in this batte.When Frieza reads the scouter the number will not pose a threat as my teams aren't flowing with huge amounts of ki this means Frieza will be more likely to tank my teams attacks and try to Beat us mentally before doing it physically a bit like vs Vegeta.

Frieza is as much of a dope as you are making him out to be.

At least we can agree on that

Even against Krillin, Piccolo, Gohan and Vegeta he actually bothered to dodge attacks,

This only goes to prove my point the fact that after Vegeta countering him in base,Krllin chopping off his tail here he still did not one shot.

Here are some more examples of Frieza being cocky.

Example A

Example B

Example C

That's only if you interpret the Dypso statement they way you did, otherwise you don't have a case whatsoever and Frieza is either A) In the same tier but just a bit faster, or B) absurdly faster.

There is nothing to interpret it's all there in black and white Dyspo is only just lightspeed the Narrator the characters and the guides tell us that.

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I think you are severely overestimating the naruto team while severely downplaying Frieza.

No i am not i am working with on panel feats you are working against on panel feats and guides as well as doing a poor job at scaling.

Your Summary

Physicals- It pretty much centered around speed, the other stats were barely mentioned, but his claim is that Frieza only has DC and "energy durability" to his name, but the level of "energy durability" feats he has is on such an astonishing level that split durability legit doesn't matter.

Are you trying to say split durability is not a thing if you are then i think a certain man(Akira toriyama) may disagree

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Versatility, and the factor it play- The biggest argument I made was in character tendencies, and whether or not they would use certain moves like sealing by the time the battle ends. I admitted that Frieza could potentially fall prey to certain techniques if they don't let on that they are plotting against Frieza.

Great we agree Frieza get sealed or atomized or chopped in half

Amaratsu doesn't ignore durability, its heat is impressive, but the reason why its dangerous is because it constantly burns,

Yes so if Amaterasu was to hit Friezas head he dies simple as that as it does not stop burning until the object is no more.

Rasenshuriken isn't a surefire way to kill Frieza

Why not? Still waiting for those feats.

Infact even you yourself Believe that if a certain character lacks feats in a certain category then they can not counter it.

Just so the voters know the same feats death says goku lacks(Frieza's superior) Frieza also lacks so there's that lol.

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, and most of the team's standard attacks wouldn't be effective, which is why hax has been the center of New Guy's strategy. My claim is that they won't get to use the hax that will be a threat until it is too late.

Look above you may change your mind.

Effectiveness of Hax and the abilities the Naruto Team has to offer- This is important, New Guy mentioned the hax abilities his team had, but barely elaborated on their effectiveness, and how they are used, and who they were used on, or why it would work on Frieza.

I love how you say it wont work on frieza yet previously stated these same attacks could work on anyone in DBZ

Rasenshuriken for example, it didn't kill Kakazu,

How many times do i need to debunk this it literally killed Kakuzu twice and it was 6 transformations ago

why would it kill Frieza?

It would kill him because he lacks feats and the thing is i know you yourself agree.

It didn't kill the Third Raikage, why would it kill Frieza?

Raikage was a edo tensei(immortal zombie) Frieza is a mortal who lacks feats and i know you agree.

At most you could have argued, that the cellular damage would have been enough to immobilize Frieza briefly

I am arguing the cellular damage will outright kill the bastard.

or enough to slow him down to make it far easier to blitz and tag him.

Yeah we need no assistance in blitzing.

Or maybe argue that it could have disrupt Ki Flow since it managed to sever Naruto's chakara network, throwing the threat of him not being able to use chakara again because it cut certain nerves and cells in his body. But you didn't even bother.

I literally posted the scan but if you want it again here you go

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Frieza is either in their ballpark so he won't be getting blitzed, or he is fast enough to do the blitzing.

Debunked.

Frieza won't play around as much as you think he would and evidence suggests as much

Debunked.

Frieza has the power and versatility to actually overwhelm the team almost immediately.

Addressed.

Your hax either won't be as effective as you think or you won't get a chance to use it.

This has been debunked by myself and you

Standard attacks(which your team will start off with) won't be effective against Frieza due to his endurance and level of power,

Are standard attacks are Magnet Rasengan(sealing) and chidori enhanced sword(piercing) two things Frieza has no counter to.

You do not have perfect teamwork.

Naruto and Sasuke have a nigh telepathic connection Madara is support

MY Conclusion

Well contrary to popular belief i believe that the naruto team don't just win but win quite comfortably as we have quite a large speed advantage(By feats) as well as attack Frieza genuinely has no counter against,furthermore i feel that the the in character tendencies of Frieza only go to help my team as he is quite a cocky fighter and loves to "play with his food" and beat them mentally by tanking there strongest attacks before beating them physically and being quite methodical about it)unfortunately for Frieza and death my team are not your average team as we have attacks Frieza genuinely has no counter for and for those of you who are a bit skeptical about it i hope i have proved this to you through scans as well as the fact that Deathhero himself does not really believe in what he is saying(Shown through the screenshots).

So to summarise

  • My team have a massive speed advantage over Frieza especially when he is in base
  • My team are more versatile
  • Have great synergy and team work
  • My team have moves that Frieza genuinely has no counter for.
  • Honestly my team is the type of team that would give most db characters a hard time due their speed and crafitness
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Your move

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#97 Edited by Thenewguysnm1 (7530 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61 said:

@thenewguysnm1:

Now with that out of the way there is one more thing i wanted to talk about and that is the fact that Frieza starts the battle in BASE. He has never gone straight to his final form so will not here,the fact you think he is a little faster in his final form means he get blitzed in his base.So yeah he starts in base meaning your gonna have to explain how he survives the initial blitz.

We never established this when talking about this matchup, plus in every single instance he has appeared he has appeared in his final form.

It says so in the op why would he start in his strongest form thats OOC

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#98 Posted by Godren (3792 posts) - - Show Bio

@thenewguysnm1: On your Madara post it says he has "Low-Godly" regeneration which is a vs wiki term that he doesn't qualify for.

Low-Godly:The ability to regenerate from the complete physical destruction of your body, instead restoring it from your disembodied consciousness, whether that be your soul, mind, or something else.

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#99 Edited by Thenewguysnm1 (7530 posts) - - Show Bio

@godren said:

@thenewguysnm1: On your Madara post it says he has "Low-Godly" regeneration which is a vs wiki term that he doesn't qualify for.

Low-Godly:The ability to regenerate from the complete physical destruction of your body, instead restoring it from your disembodied consciousness, whether that be your soul, mind, or something else.

Meh it doesn't really matter here tbh.

You wanna get tagged