Bleach team stomps. Aizen can regenerate, and Ichigo has enough raw power and speed to avoid nearly anything. That, and Aizen has Kido if he needs it, and Ichigo has Mugetsu.
1. Naruto has shown regeneration on par, if not better than Aizen, for example regenerating his skin and blood, internal organs, broken bones, massive holes in his chest, ect. All pre-shippuden to boot.
2. Naruto has tanked and overpowered attacks capable of splitting the moon in half, has channeled the natural energy of the Earth into an attack that could shake the planet, not to mention he can spam potentially thousands of attacks that can blow up countries, ran across countries in seconds, and reacted to an attack that was easily Mach 16,000+.
3. Mugetsu and Kido won't scratch Naruto, and I haven't even begun on Sasuke who has his Susanoo to protect him. If you think they can, prove that Mugetsu has the same damage output as one of Naruto's bijuu bombs (which have been country-continent busting since before the series ended).
For Naruto fans, KCM will not work as I have stated countless times. Zanpakuto spirits are like bijuus and they've been captured by kyoka suigetsu's spell. Naruto's senses won't help him for jack. Once you're in kyoka suigetsu it's over for you, it lasts forever. Naruto isn't going to be fighting something or someone that looks like Aizen. Once Naruto thinks he's killed Aizen he is going to see a glass shatter and the next thing he knows he's in the after life. Please.
Show Kyoka Suigetsu working on someone with actual TP resistance feats; Naruto by EOS can resist illusions strong enough to control the entire world and trap them in infinite imaginary worlds. Please.
1. Really? Because this is EOS Naruto, and if his regeneration was so great, his arm would've grown back.
2. Except that Naruto's energy is finite compared to Aizen and Ichigo's. Aizen is the main threat here, as not only is he capable of tanking attacks as well, but the Hogkyoku will only continue to keep advancing him to be able to overpower his enemies. Ichigo is a casual mountain buster at this point, and he easily disabled a level 90 kido from someone who's explicitly stated to be one of, if not the most powerful Kido users in existence.
3. You have no proof of that. Kido, specifically Hado and Bakudo, all accomplish different things. Aizen can easily eviscerate Naruto or Sasuke with Black Coffin, create black holes in their chests, or hell, even toss them in a Garganta and win via battlefield removal.
1. Really? Because this is EOS Naruto, and if his regeneration was so great, his arm would've grown back.
2. Except that Naruto's energy is finite compared to Aizen and Ichigo's. Aizen is the main threat here, as not only is he capable of tanking attacks as well, but the Hogkyoku will only continue to keep advancing him to be able to overpower his enemies. Ichigo is a casual mountain buster at this point, and he easily disabled a level 90 kido from someone who's explicitly stated to be one of, if not the most powerful Kido users in existence.
3. You have no proof of that. Kido, specifically Hado and Bakudo, all accomplish different things. Aizen can easily eviscerate Naruto or Sasuke with Black Coffin, create black holes in their chests, or hell, even toss them in a Garganta and win via battlefield removal.
1. Naruto's regeneration comes from Kurama who went to sleep after giving him all the chakra he had left so that's the reason why he didn't regen. Naruto's longevity comes from the Uzumaki clan.
2. Well Naruto can fight for days with his chakra pool include the tailed beasts and six paths chakra then we have a week. I think Naruto's truth seeker's can negate the effects of Hogkyoku. Sasuke has amaterasu as well.
3. I know Sasuke can just clap his hands and it will be over.
I have yet to insult anyone, there's not a single instance in which I didn't know something about Naruto just because I disagreed with a ridiculous fan calculation or panel that proves nothing, and I don't use Wiki.
Naruto's feats all involved chakra which Aizen does not have so he is susceptible to its illusions. There isn't one single illusion in Naruto more complex than kyoka suigetsu. The major difference between genjutsu and kyoka sugietsu is that kyoka suigetsu is so real that no one can tell the difference and usually acts rationally. An example of this would be when Aizen was getting owned by the Gotei 13 + Vizards but it turns out he swapped bodies with Momo and they killed her (practically) off panel... there is no way for Naruto to see past this. The evidence you have given me does not prove he could see past kyoka suigetsu. Now with genjutsu, pretty much everyone throughout the series has been able to figure out they're under one.. how the hell does Naruto nuke anyone... the strongest nuclear bomb ever made can destroy a circumference equivalent to a city (let's use New York City as an example) do you have any proof Naruto can do this? Just an ass pull.
That page says that genjutsu controls all five senses BY MANIPULATING THE FLOW OF CHAKRA quit being dense and learn how to read your favorite comic book. Genjutsu doesn't control all five senses either, specific genjutsu control specific senses. Shikamaru talks abotu how genjutsu that control sound senses are the most dangerous.
That page says that genjutsu controls all five senses BY MANIPULATING THE FLOW OF CHAKRA quit being dense and learn how to read your favorite comic book.
There is literally no 'by' involved there, you're implying that - and that implication is false to begin with - genjutsu has actually worked before people even had chakra. Now, give me the example where genjutsu doesn't work because the target doesn't have chakra.
What you're saying is never said on the panel, outright contradicted once, and there are no instances of that happening. Repeating it doesn't make it valid - post one instance where genjutsu doesn't work because chakra netweork is absent in the next comment, or it's a concession on your part.
And you're flagged for the 'dense' part. My favorite comic book at the moment is justice league, but that's irrelevant to the thread.
Genjutsu doesn't control all five senses either, specific genjutsu control specific senses.
False. The scan flat out says five senses.
Shikamaru talks abotu how genjutsu that control sound senses are the most dangerous.
Aizen's kyoka suigetsu is initated by sight - that is, you have to see it, but it affects five senses. but it's also useless against those without sight. Shikamaru is talking about genjutsu initiated by sound - like tayuya's flute. And the genjutsu he is talking about actually affected his five senses on-panel. So the point is moot to start with.
@thevivas: ...I don't think it's going to matter. kyoka suigetsu being a threat has been debunked too many times by now, and someone who thinks aizen can take galaxy busting attacks is not going to care about petty things like OP in the first place.
That page says that genjutsu controls all five senses BY MANIPULATING THE FLOW OF CHAKRA quit being dense and learn how to read your favorite comic book.
There is literally no 'by' involved there, you're implying that - and that implication is false to begin with - genjutsu has actually worked before people even had chakra. Now, give me the example where genjutsu doesn't work because the target doesn't have chakra.
What you're saying is never said on the panel, outright contradicted once, and there are no instances of that happening. Repeating it doesn't make it valid - post one instance where genjutsu doesn't work because chakra netweork is absent in the next comment, or it's a concession on your part.
"Genjutsu is something that works on your opponent's five senses. To control the chakra flowing through and linking their cranial nerves"
I don't know what language you read Naruto in, but in English it is interpreted the same, that you need a flow of chakra. Everyone in Naruto has chakra. Kaguya was able to manipulate people because she is the "god" of chakra. Since Kishimoto said nothing to contradict Jiriya's statement, you still need a flow of chakra to fall under a genjutsu. Kaguya's actions are hereby a plot hole.
but in English it is interpreted the same, that you need a flow of chakra.
And no. Controlling flow of chakra is one goal - it also controls the senses.
Everyone in Naruto has chakra. Kaguya was able to manipulate people because she is the "god" of chakra.
We were talking about putting people without chakra in a genjutsu.
Since Kishimoto said nothing to contradict Jiriya's statement,
He doesn't need to in the first place. The statement and the way you're interpreting it are two different things. And the latter has an instance going against it.
you still need a flow of chakra to fall under a genjutsu. Kaguya's actions are hereby a plot hole.
Post the time where genjutsu failed because target didn't have chakra - kaguya's example doesn't contradict the statement to begin with. it affected people's senses. Your interpretation, however, was flawed.
Controlling the flow of chakra allows you to control one's five senses but Aizen and Ichigo or anyone from the Bleach universe doesn't have chakra so I don't see how this "genjutsu" will work. You used Kaguya to back up your claim that it controls the five senses and chakra is not a requirement but this action contradicts what Jiriya said to Naruto thus creating a hole in his plot that's been flawed for the past four years. Genjutsu was never used on anyone who didn't have chakra except in Kaguya's case which is a plot hole.
If that's the case then Kishimoto would have said so to correct this statement that has been followed for what... 12+ years? He never retconned anything so your example with Kaguya genjutsuing people and animals is a plot hole and can not be used in this debate.
I don't these people&cats had chakra,yet they fell to genjutsu+Kaguya used genjutsu on people that had 0 chakra that proofs Genjutsu can work.
Does Aizen have a single scan to proof he can use KS on people with TP defense?
I was kind of holding that argument for reserve. But okay, now that's out:
Chakra was distributed to connect people in the first place, not animals.
Animals use natural energy - what flows through water, grass etc. for attacks or defense, that's why chakra-nullifying techiniques like gudo dama don't work against mobyokuzan frogs (senjutsu, which use natural energy, also referred to as sage chakra). And this isn't the first time animals have been put in the genjutsu to begin with:
Controlling the flow of chakra allows you to control one's five senses but Aizen and Ichigo or anyone from the Bleach universe doesn't have chakra so I don't see how this "genjutsu" will work. You used Kaguya to back up your claim that it controls the five senses and chakra is not a requirement but this action contradicts what Jiriya said to Naruto thus creating a hole in his plot that's been flawed for the past four years. Genjutsu was never used on anyone who didn't have chakra except in Kaguya's case which is a plot hole.
That's pure nonsense. You can affect senses even without chakra - like kaguya affecting people. IT affecting cats. Sasuke affecting manda. So that's three examples, contrary to what you're saying.
Jiraya is saying genjutsu controls senses to control chakra network - NOT that chakra newtork is a requirement for genjutsu to affect. The second part is you twisting the statement to fit your theory, a theory that has been contradicted thrice. And you have yet to post one time when what you said has happened - genjutsu just failed to work because target doesn't have chakra. Till you can show it, your theory is irrelevant. Sasuke solos with genjutsu.
If that's the case then Kishimoto would have said so to correct this statement that has been followed for what...
That has been followed? Never, even once, in the manga has that happened. Not in 12+ years, and not since the series has started. The statement doesn't explicitly or implicitly agree with what you're saying, you cannot provide a single instance to back up what you're saying, and there's more than one incidence where the opposite has happen. You have already lost this point, give it up. Seriously.
I don't these people&cats had chakra,yet they fell to genjutsu+Kaguya used genjutsu on people that had 0 chakra that proofs Genjutsu can work.Does Aizen have a single scan to proof he can use KS on people with TP defense?
I was kind of holding that argument for reserve. But okay, now that's out:
Chakra was distributed to connect people in the first place, not animals.
Animals use natural energy - what flows through water, grass etc. for attacks or defense, that's why chakra-nullifying techiniques like gudo dama don't work against mobyokuzan frogs (senjutsu, which use natural energy, also referred to as sage chakra). And this isn't the first time animals have been put in the genjutsu to begin with:
Controlling the flow of chakra allows you to control one's five senses but Aizen and Ichigo or anyone from the Bleach universe doesn't have chakra so I don't see how this "genjutsu" will work. You used Kaguya to back up your claim that it controls the five senses and chakra is not a requirement but this action contradicts what Jiriya said to Naruto thus creating a hole in his plot that's been flawed for the past four years. Genjutsu was never used on anyone who didn't have chakra except in Kaguya's case which is a plot hole.
That's pure nonsense. You can affect senses even without chakra - like kaguya affecting people. IT affecting cats. Sasuke affecting manda. So that's three examples, contrary to what you're saying.
Jiraya is saying genjutsu controls senses to control chakra network - NOT that chakra newtork is a requirement for genjutsu to affect. The second part is you twisting the statement to fit your theory, a theory that has been contradicted thrice. And you have yet to post one time when what you said has happened - genjutsu just failed to work because target doesn't have chakra. Till you can show it, your theory is irrelevant. Sasuke solos with genjutsu.
If it doesn't require a chakra network why even mention chakra in the first place if anyone can fall under genjutsu... that's just stupid. I already said what Kaguya did is a plot hole since it contradicts this statement:
And man, I could have sworn it was stated Hagoromo distributed chakra to all living beings. I don't know, maybe I'm reading Naruto in another language. Sasuke's genjutsu is a far cry from Aizen's due to the fact that it is limited and is not entirely based on his mind. I'm glad you ignored my point about needing his sword to cut through you in order to see past his illusions.
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