@alextheboss:
Sure, but when it comes to physical attacks we can only guess, so it makes more sense to go by the DC of the attack. For example I think I mountain level punch is more potent than a mountain level explosion.
For example, Boros from OPM melted an entire city's worth of heat resistant metal with one punch. I'm sure it has way above city level potency, but I would call it a city level punch.
When I say character A has mountain level punches, that does not automatically mean I don't think they can't punch through someone who has mountain level durability, it just means their max DC with their punch is destroying a mountain.
So I would say Frieza has mountain level punches, but I do think he would pummel the crap out of Naruto, who I say has country-moon level durability.
I don’t see that it makes sense to go by the DC of the attack. As you demonstrate here, DC is irrelevant to a fight. Potency is what is important.
SSJ2 Vegeta killing himself is a thousand time stronger than Piccolo’s moonbust or Freeza’s planet busts even though the former had less AOE than much weaker attacks.
Would you say someone like Dabura is only mountain level because he never showed any DC?
Honestly, by your last sentence, I can see we agree. I just don’t see why DC should even be brought up here.
True, but Vegeta not being able to lift Mageta is enough to prove my point.
Sure, I concede actual lifting strength is not as high, though they do have a lot of “raw” strength.
Nail would die in a planet explosion.
Eh, I should have been a bit less hyperbole-y. Lets go with a moon or small planet, which he easily would.
Which for everyone in the saiyan saga is below kicking each other through small islands.
Goku's shockwave from his strike is clearly inferior to 8 gates Guy's attacks, which knocked Madara hundreds of feet into the solid ground.
Except this is missing the point in both instances.
In DBZ, their striking is on par-ish with their ki attacks. For example, SSJ2 Gohan freaking disintegrates beings which would eaaaaasily tank Planet level attacks.
In Naruto, Gai isn’t impressive because of his striking feats doing some stuff. Its because he is striking MADARA and breaking TRUTH SEEKING BALLS. As for why that Matters, Madara and the TSB have the durability to tank attacks from BSM Naruto + Sasuke and even Juubidama.
Guy is a perfect example of my argument as well. He is inferior to Madara in durability and DC, and Guy only has mountain level punches imo (potency clearly higher though), but he was wrecking Madara due to speed and striking power. Like how many of these DBZ characters have more DC and durability than Naruto, Naruto has better striking feats, and therefore should win in hand to hand combat.
I honestly disagree. I think you are under-rating Gai’s power.
That contradicts the stories narrative. Planet busting is considered impressive in the verse. Even in the Cell saga the planet was only threatened to be destroyed when large attacks were charged up.
So do a hell of a lot of other feats. It doesn’t really contradict it. Cell himself said he would wipe out and entire solar system, and the villains are considered threats to the universe. The planet is threatened because they live there, a feat is actually shown.
No, because
1. Their calculations are probably wrong. Most people just accept it's a huge planet because it's 10x Earth gravity, even though King Kai's planet also has 10x Earth's mass. Not to mention I doubt they really know what they are talking about in the first place when it comes to physics, because you can actually increase a planets gravity by decreasing it's radius. A planet with 2x less mass than Earth, and 2x less radius, so basically smaller in every way, would actually have 2x the gravity of Earth on the surface of the planet.
2. The scene of Frieza blowing up planet Vegeta was anime original.
3. The people who made the scene weren't even thinking that, they were just trying to show he can blow up a planet.
1- I would have to look at the calculations again. I am fairly sure this reasoning was discussed, but I have been out of the loop for a while. Yes, you can increase gravity by decreasing radius. Wouldn’t that imply King Kai’s planet is dense where as Planet Vegeta is clearly planet sized?
2- Nope, the calc is from the scene shown in super iirc.
3- That doesn’t matter. You could say that about any feat ever. The entire point of this hobby is to figure out the power behind a feat.
I'm talking about general planet level right now. Frieza is stated to be able to destroy planets, and the way he casually destroyed planet Vegeta, sure I can accept that he could probably destroy massive planets like Jupiter, but trying to go star level with it is pushing it.
If he can destroy planets to the level which comes out to Tenatons of TNT, then he is star level. He doesn’t have to actually be able to destroy a star, just have a feat equivalent to the gravitational binding energy of a small star.
Obviously. But Frieza charging up his signature planet destroyer, arguably his strongest attack, and just destroying the planet, is not above planet level.
Well, yeah. He was space hitler, that was kinda his gig. Also destroying a star could involve more than just having star level power.
I would say it's pretty clear their ki attacks can reach speeds far above their physical attacks.
They dodge their ki attacks all the time. They are shown comparable to their beams in the Ginyu fight and Goku was able to outrun Ki attacks in the 23rd BT.
Can you consistently show me Naruto god tiers being below mach 1000-10,000? Because that's about where I have them.
Sounds about where I have them too on my low end. Well, honestly I don’t want to bring up the low ends because people will use them to downplay. But mostly just general portrayal. Naruto specifically does have some better travel feats than most verses tho.
Ya, and they have no calculable combat speed feats.
Reacting to attacks which are Relativistic+
Sounds like people in denial to me. It's a flash of light, it can only move at light speed.
Goku never reacted to it, he saw the move already and recognized the hand signal so he got the sunglasses before the technique went off.
That’s arguable.
It’s light so it’s lightspeed? It’s funny I have never seen that used to downplay before. Usually it’s “Just because it’s called light doesn’t mean it’s light speed”
Do you keep this consistent with other verses?
That's not in character.
Good point.
Those are high ssj and ssj2 tiers. They are in a completely different league than saiyan saga characters.
It’s also just backup to the feat which was already performed twice.
I guess, but if you take away that moon feat there all of a sudden becomes 0 evidence of light speed, which is a problem, especially with all the feats showing they aren't that fast. Taking a feat that Toriyama probably didn't even think about the speed of and running with it for the rest of the series even when actual speed feats are given and are far slower doesn't sit right with me.
Like I said there is supporting evidence, and even you yourself have brought up some relativistic feats.
Only reply if you enjoy it.
Oh I do, some of the facets of this hobby can be frustrating sometimes though.
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