Naruto and Sasuke vs Ichigo and Kenpachi

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#1 Edited by Marco_Alonso (65 posts) - - Show Bio
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Vs.

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Rules

  • Current Versions
  • Energy from their respective series
  • Intense battle music
  • Fight takes place at Ultimate Marvel's planet.

My Opinion:

In the personal I believe Ichigo and Kenpachi gets this since Kenpachi in Shikai and with eye-patch has country lv DC, and Ichigo has pretty much PS of all of his former versions, add that to a casual FTL speed and we got a really hard time for Naruto and Sasuke. I mean they are faster than Kenpachi really easy but the spacial ninjas are outclased in speed by Ichigo and strength by Kenpachi. But I would like to know what other people thing.

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#2 Posted by ValarMelkor (5165 posts) - - Show Bio

Naruto and Sasuke.

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#3 Posted by Barodas (750 posts) - - Show Bio

Nobody wins as the gravity makeing it too hard to move so both teams agree to not to fight. But why makes this thread Ichigo still almost feat-less and we haven't even seen his bankai.

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#5 Posted by SoWhatsUp435 (340 posts) - - Show Bio

@barodas: Meh I think they could move at x10 gravity. Goku had a hard time with a pl of 500 with weights, and naruto isn't much weaker and he is much lighter

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#6 Posted by Hiddenlight (3749 posts) - - Show Bio

Ichigo is indeed a threat to them individually, but Kenpachi is at best Small Country Level in damage output (Then we will see a lot of eyepatch arguments being used, but unless I see the scale of his powers without the eyepatch I can't see that being used here), and that means nothing to those two. And FTL speed? I would be glad to hear that, last time I checked they were just Massively Hypersonic+, both Naruto and Sasuke are in the subrelativistic range so that means nothing, at best Ichigo is equally faster than them.

That being said, this is a cool battle, but I will wait to see more feats from Ichigo before picking a side, right now I'm siding with the ninjas. Honestly, I think that Ichigo and Yhwach (Or Aizen) would be a better team-up here.

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#7 Posted by Hiddenlight (3749 posts) - - Show Bio

@barodas said:

Nobody wins as the gravity makeing it too hard to move so both teams agree to not to fight. But why makes this thread Ichigo still almost feat-less and we haven't even seen his bankai.

Naruto, Kenpachi and Sasuke are physically strong enough to endure this without many problems. We never got to see many strenght feats from Ichigo but I believe that he will do just fine too.

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#8 Posted by ValarMelkor (5165 posts) - - Show Bio

Ichigo is indeed a threat to them individually, but Kenpachi is at best Small Country Level in damage output

To be honest it looks more like City level to me.

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#9 Edited by Barodas (750 posts) - - Show Bio

@barodas: Meh I think they could move at x10 gravity. Goku had a hard time with a pl of 500 with weights, and naruto isn't much weaker and he is much lighter

Goku weights are about 90 kg fyi, and after he took them of he was ok with the gravity after a while. How much power you have means nothing in a higher gravity. When they were in Kaguyas gravity dimension they were all affect by gravity equally so power means nothing. Also Vegeta with a pl over 1 million had trouble with his gravity training while Goku with a pl of 90 k could handle 100g. See where I'm going with this?

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#10 Posted by Hiddenlight (3749 posts) - - Show Bio

@hiddenlight said:

Ichigo is indeed a threat to them individually, but Kenpachi is at best Small Country Level in damage output

To be honest it looks more like City level to me.

Well, Vatican is a country lol.

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#11 Posted by Barodas (750 posts) - - Show Bio

@hiddenlight: They won't be able to fight properly and their strength means nothing in a higher gravity. In Kaguyas dimension they were all equally affect by the higher gravity. But didn't Ichigo go through something similar to gravity training with the Royal guard?

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#12 Posted by Jiraiya_sageofoil (2313 posts) - - Show Bio

kenpachi is not country level. at most he is city level-island level. Naruto and sasuke win either way

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#13 Posted by Marco_Alonso (65 posts) - - Show Bio

kenpachi is not country level. at most he is city level-island level. Naruto and sasuke win either way

40 days to walk around the seireitei bro

@barodas said:

Nobody wins as the gravity makeing it too hard to move so both teams agree to not to fight. But why makes this thread Ichigo still almost feat-less and we haven't even seen his bankai.

the gravity won't affect them

Ichigo is indeed a threat to them individually, but Kenpachi is at best Small Country Level in damage output (Then we will see a lot of eyepatch arguments being used, but unless I see the scale of his powers without the eyepatch I can't see that being used here), and that means nothing to those two. And FTL speed? I would be glad to hear that, last time I checked they were just Massively Hypersonic+, both Naruto and Sasuke are in the subrelativistic range so that means nothing, at best Ichigo is equally faster than them.

That being said, this is a cool battle, but I will wait to see more feats from Ichigo before picking a side, right now I'm siding with the ninjas. Honestly, I think that Ichigo and Yhwach (Or Aizen) would be a better team-up here.

For Ichigo a lightning is really slow and Naruto and Sasuke can evade lightnings. Yhwach and Aizen we don't know how powerful they are really. For all we know Yhwach can be universal lv since he absorbed the god and Aizen appears to be as strong as his butterfly form while chained.

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#14 Posted by Barodas (750 posts) - - Show Bio

@marco_alonso: Unless you find PROOF that they can fight in 10 times gravity wothout being affected you words mean nothing, no offence.

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#15 Edited by Marco_Alonso (65 posts) - - Show Bio
@barodas said:

@marco_alonso: Unless you find PROOF that they can fight in 10 times gravity wothout being affected you words mean nothing, no offence.

i change the planet.

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#16 Posted by Jiraiya_sageofoil (2313 posts) - - Show Bio

@marco_alonso: obviously that's not a country then itd 40 days to walk through the U.S even more to walk around. Also that's shown to be untrue since they travel throughout the soul society in every arc in under a 30 min. it never takes them days to travel the soul society

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#17 Posted by Hiddenlight (3749 posts) - - Show Bio

@barodas said:

@hiddenlight: They won't be able to fight properly and their strength means nothing in a higher gravity. In Kaguyas dimension they were all equally affect by the higher gravity. But didn't Ichigo go through something similar to gravity training with the Royal guard?

Well, even incomplete Kyuubi escaped from a Chibaku Tensei, which had a focused gravity pull stronger than the Earth one, I'm pretty sure that Sasuke and Naruto in their strongest forms can handle 10x gravity, we just didn't knew how strong was the pull in Kaguya's dimension but even in that situation they weren't completely dropped by it, physical strenght means a lot, as durability does. Actually, regular humans could probably walk on that planet for a few minutes before dying scientifically speaking, we can endure way stronger "gravity pulls" when in rockets.

@hiddenlight said:

Ichigo is indeed a threat to them individually, but Kenpachi is at best Small Country Level in damage output (Then we will see a lot of eyepatch arguments being used, but unless I see the scale of his powers without the eyepatch I can't see that being used here), and that means nothing to those two. And FTL speed? I would be glad to hear that, last time I checked they were just Massively Hypersonic+, both Naruto and Sasuke are in the subrelativistic range so that means nothing, at best Ichigo is equally faster than them.

That being said, this is a cool battle, but I will wait to see more feats from Ichigo before picking a side, right now I'm siding with the ninjas. Honestly, I think that Ichigo and Yhwach (Or Aizen) would be a better team-up here.

For Ichigo a lightning is really slow and Naruto and Sasuke can evade lightnings. Yhwach and Aizen we don't know how powerful they are really. For all we know Yhwach can be universal lv since he absorbed the god and Aizen appears to be as strong as his butterfly form while chained.

For everyone here a lightning is really really really slow (I don't know about Kenpachi though), but FTL usually means Faster than Light, not Faster than Lightning, there's a huge speed difference between those. Light is around 300.000km/s while an electron drift is something around 20.000km/s in the air.
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#18 Posted by Barodas (750 posts) - - Show Bio

@marco_alonso: Well with that i can't really say because we don't know much about Ichigos abilities because Kubo just loves to troll us, without know his bankai I just don't know his true power or if he can use the rest of his abilities (hollow, quincy). Ichigo is the only but in this fight because we don't know what he can truly do and I don't know what to think about Kenpachi.

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#19 Posted by Marco_Alonso (65 posts) - - Show Bio

@marco_alonso: obviously that's not a country then itd 40 days to walk through the U.S even more to walk around.

US is a average size country.

Also that's shown to be untrue since they travel throughout the soul society in every arc in under a 30 min. it never takes them days to travel the soul society

By every arc you mean the none canon ones? bc in the SS arc they take shorcuts and everything and it cost them around 2 and half to get to rukia's tower that wasn't even in the center. and they went sometimes running.

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#20 Posted by Barodas (750 posts) - - Show Bio
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#21 Posted by grappolo (3173 posts) - - Show Bio

Just wait for new feats people, current ichigo and kenpachi lose vs naruto and sasuke. this could change in the future but now they can't win.

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#22 Posted by Marco_Alonso (65 posts) - - Show Bio

@marco_alonso said:

@hiddenlight said:

Ichigo is indeed a threat to them individually, but Kenpachi is at best Small Country Level in damage output (Then we will see a lot of eyepatch arguments being used, but unless I see the scale of his powers without the eyepatch I can't see that being used here), and that means nothing to those two. And FTL speed? I would be glad to hear that, last time I checked they were just Massively Hypersonic+, both Naruto and Sasuke are in the subrelativistic range so that means nothing, at best Ichigo is equally faster than them.

That being said, this is a cool battle, but I will wait to see more feats from Ichigo before picking a side, right now I'm siding with the ninjas. Honestly, I think that Ichigo and Yhwach (Or Aizen) would be a better team-up here.

For Ichigo a lightning is really slow and Naruto and Sasuke can evade lightnings. Yhwach and Aizen we don't know how powerful they are really. For all we know Yhwach can be universal lv since he absorbed the god and Aizen appears to be as strong as his butterfly form while chained.

For everyone here a lightning is really really really slow (I don't know about Kenpachi though), but FTL usually means Faster than Light, not Faster than Lightning, there's a huge speed difference between those. Light is around 300.000km/s while an electron drift is something around 20.000km/s in the air.

that's odd

i got 2 websites that says lightning moves at 186,000 miles per second nearly the speed of light. though the specific speed of light is 186 282.397 mile per second is pretty close anyway. but it mostly depends on the air temperature. even so if we say the speed of lightning is slower that makes no difference. Ichigo blitz lightnings, Naruto and Sasuke evade lightnings, Kenpachi while nerfed almost catch by surprise a lightning speed chick and blitz missiles casually. if we say is a modern missile as it appears then it easily makes it a feat of Mach 10+ speed. but anyway my stand is still there Ichigo is MFTLing, Naruto and Sasuke are FTLing and Kenpachi is FTS.

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#23 Posted by Reno117 (2947 posts) - - Show Bio

Sasuke or Naruto alone can easily solo.

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#24 Posted by Jiraiya_sageofoil (2313 posts) - - Show Bio

@jiraiya_sageofoil said:

@marco_alonso: obviously that's not a country then itd 40 days to walk through the U.S even more to walk around.

US is a average size country.

and it would take longer than 40 days to walk around

Also that's shown to be untrue since they travel throughout the soul society in every arc in under a 30 min. it never takes them days to travel the soul society

By every arc you mean the none canon ones? bc in the SS arc they take shorcuts and everything and it cost them around 2 and half to get to rukia's tower that wasn't even in the center. and they went sometimes running.

by arc I mean manga as in no filler. I don't watch the anime so nice try. and they were also hiding stopping ,sleeping , and fighting in those days. not to mention some of them got arrested so..... like I said they travel the soul society all the time in less than a hour. kenpachi is not country level . also it doesn't take a country sized meteor to destroy the area

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#25 Posted by Marco_Alonso (65 posts) - - Show Bio
@barodas said:

@marco_alonso: Well with that i can't really say because we don't know much about Ichigos abilities because Kubo just loves to troll us,

that's a understatement but anyway for what we know ichigo now has PS from all of his former versios (Post Ulquiorra fight Ichigo was island lv at minimum.).

without know his bankai I just don't know his true power or if he can use the rest of his abilities (hollow, quincy). Ichigo is the only but in this fight because we don't know what he can truly do and I don't know what to think about Kenpachi.

Hollow is his Zanpakutou, and Quincy we do know he has it. And Kenpachi's Zanpakutou is ability appears to give him the strength needed to perform a feat as i read in a website in spanish. since he literally open his way through reality with pure force.

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#26 Edited by Barodas (750 posts) - - Show Bio

@marco_alonso: According to yawach ichigo has reclaimed the power he used to defeat aizen.

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#27 Posted by Marco_Alonso (65 posts) - - Show Bio
@barodas said:

@marco_alonso: According to yawach ichigo has reclaimed the power he used to defeat aizen.

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it appears so since Ichigo cut down the soul palace with one movement

but that would make Yhwach > Dangai Ichigo

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
right to left.

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#28 Edited by Barodas (750 posts) - - Show Bio

@barodas said:

@marco_alonso: According to yawach ichigo has reclaimed the power he used to defeat aizen.

No Caption Provided

it appears so since Ichigo cut down the soul palace with one movement

but that would make Yhwach > Dangai Ichigo

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
right to left.

Yawach is stronger then dangai Ichigo.

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#29 Posted by Hiddenlight (3749 posts) - - Show Bio

@hiddenlight said:

@marco_alonso said:

@hiddenlight said:

Ichigo is indeed a threat to them individually, but Kenpachi is at best Small Country Level in damage output (Then we will see a lot of eyepatch arguments being used, but unless I see the scale of his powers without the eyepatch I can't see that being used here), and that means nothing to those two. And FTL speed? I would be glad to hear that, last time I checked they were just Massively Hypersonic+, both Naruto and Sasuke are in the subrelativistic range so that means nothing, at best Ichigo is equally faster than them.

That being said, this is a cool battle, but I will wait to see more feats from Ichigo before picking a side, right now I'm siding with the ninjas. Honestly, I think that Ichigo and Yhwach (Or Aizen) would be a better team-up here.

For Ichigo a lightning is really slow and Naruto and Sasuke can evade lightnings. Yhwach and Aizen we don't know how powerful they are really. For all we know Yhwach can be universal lv since he absorbed the god and Aizen appears to be as strong as his butterfly form while chained.

For everyone here a lightning is really really really slow (I don't know about Kenpachi though), but FTL usually means Faster than Light, not Faster than Lightning, there's a huge speed difference between those. Light is around 300.000km/s while an electron drift is something around 20.000km/s in the air.http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/naruto-and-sasuke-vs-ichigo-and-kenpachi-1762432/?messageId=16119090#js-message-22

that's odd

i got 2 websites that says lightning moves at 186,000 miles per second nearly the speed of light. though the specific speed of light is 186 282.397 mile per second is pretty close anyway. but it mostly depends on the air temperature. even so if we say the speed of lightning is slower that makes no difference. Ichigo blitz lightnings, Naruto and Sasuke evade lightnings, Kenpachi while nerfed almost catch by surprise a lightning speed chick and blitz missiles casually. if we say is a modern missile as it appears then it easily makes it a feat of Mach 10+ speed. but anyway my stand is still there Ichigo is MFTLing, Naruto and Sasuke are FTLing and Kenpachi is FTS.

186000 miles per second is maybe the speed of the light coming from the lightning, light doesn't always move at the same speeds, the umidity of the air probably reduces its speed by some margin. The speed of the lightning bolt itself is the same as drift velocity and it is determined by the conductor. Of course it changes depending on the atmospheric conditions, and the fact that lightning aren't linear, but as air is a really bad conductor we don't really see anything way beyond 1/3 of the speed of light, and even that is under perfect conditions (Also depends on if the lightning is coming from the ground to the sky or the opposite).

That being said, I don't see a huge speed difference between Ichigo and the Ninja duo, actually, from everyone here, the one that holds the best truly quantifiable speed feat so far (and even in his own universe) is Naruto. He blocked Toneri's sword when the same sword took 1 second to cross Moon's diameter, and I'm not talking about when he dodged Toneri's swinging the sword, but about when he blasted Naruto right away. Of course that doesn't equal to combat speed, but means that his reaction time is way beyond what we tought. I wouldn't place anyone here in the "moving as fast as lightning" list, they all reacted to and outrunned techniques using lightning, I can see them seeing lightnings in slowmotion (Actually, I think that even Kakashi in the beginning of Shippuden is in that list), but I doubt that anyone here moves as fast as a natural lightning or have a feat that puts them way beyond the others, it's not something truly quantifiable.

Right now, I can see Ichigo being as fast as Naruto and Sasuke, but until he gets more feats I think that it's stretching too much to give him a massive advantage even with his shunpo, but I insist that Kenpachi isn't ready to be in this thread though, right now he is leagues below everyone here.

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#30 Edited by Marco_Alonso (65 posts) - - Show Bio

by arc I mean manga as in no filler. I don't watch the anime so nice try. and they were also hiding stopping ,sleeping , and fighting in those days. not to mention some of them got arrested so..... like I said they travel the soul society all the time in less than a hour. kenpachi is not country level . also it doesn't take a country sized meteor to destroy the area

Ginjo from the encounter with Kenpachi was running and went directly to Rukia's cell, ichigo had enough time to recover from his fight with Kenpachi. Chad was walking directly smashing everything at his path and by a 3rd seat's words he was on the right direction. He didn't even get close to Rukia's cell before being stopped by Kyoraku. True Chad sleep. Meaning the Soul Society's 40 days can be cutted by half since they would sleep also. It would leave the same at 20 days walk. that lowballing it. Since even in this arc there is fight all over the place and there isn't a captain encountering another captain. they have to move at flash step speed to move close to the others. even with the city lv attacks they can perform

maxresdefault.jpg (1024×576)

latest (749×655)

to intensify it even more toshiro in shikai had attacks of 7 square miles, yet is not felt by the captain in the seireitei. they need days to prepare each other and need a mastered shunpo or a incrdible speed to move around the city.

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#31 Posted by Marco_Alonso (65 posts) - - Show Bio
@marco_alonso said:
@hiddenlight said:

@marco_alonso said:

@hiddenlight said:

Ichigo is indeed a threat to them individually, but Kenpachi is at best Small Country Level in damage output (Then we will see a lot of eyepatch arguments being used, but unless I see the scale of his powers without the eyepatch I can't see that being used here), and that means nothing to those two. And FTL speed? I would be glad to hear that, last time I checked they were just Massively Hypersonic+, both Naruto and Sasuke are in the subrelativistic range so that means nothing, at best Ichigo is equally faster than them.

That being said, this is a cool battle, but I will wait to see more feats from Ichigo before picking a side, right now I'm siding with the ninjas. Honestly, I think that Ichigo and Yhwach (Or Aizen) would be a better team-up here.

For Ichigo a lightning is really slow and Naruto and Sasuke can evade lightnings. Yhwach and Aizen we don't know how powerful they are really. For all we know Yhwach can be universal lv since he absorbed the god and Aizen appears to be as strong as his butterfly form while chained.

For everyone here a lightning is really really really slow (I don't know about Kenpachi though), but FTL usually means Faster than Light, not Faster than Lightning, there's a huge speed difference between those. Light is around 300.000km/s while an electron drift is something around 20.000km/s in the air.http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/naruto-and-sasuke-vs-ichigo-and-kenpachi-1762432/?messageId=16119090#js-message-22

that's odd

i got 2 websites that says lightning moves at 186,000 miles per second nearly the speed of light. though the specific speed of light is 186 282.397 mile per second is pretty close anyway. but it mostly depends on the air temperature. even so if we say the speed of lightning is slower that makes no difference. Ichigo blitz lightnings, Naruto and Sasuke evade lightnings, Kenpachi while nerfed almost catch by surprise a lightning speed chick and blitz missiles casually. if we say is a modern missile as it appears then it easily makes it a feat of Mach 10+ speed. but anyway my stand is still there Ichigo is MFTLing, Naruto and Sasuke are FTLing and Kenpachi is FTS.

186000 miles per second is maybe the speed of the light coming from the lightning, light doesn't always move at the same speeds, the umidity of the air probably reduces its speed by some margin. The speed of the lightning bolt itself is the same as drift velocity and it is determined by the conductor. Of course it changes depending on the atmospheric conditions, and the fact that lightning aren't linear, but as air is a really bad conductor we don't really see anything way beyond 1/3 of the speed of light, and even that is under perfect conditions (Also depends on if the lightning is coming from the ground to the sky or the opposite).

That being said, I don't see a huge speed difference between Ichigo and the Ninja duo, actually, from everyone here, the one that holds the best truly quantifiable speed feat so far (and even in his own universe) is Naruto. He blocked Toneri's sword when the same sword took 1 second to cross Moon's diameter, and I'm not talking about when he dodged Toneri's swinging the sword, but about when he blasted Naruto right away. Of course that doesn't equal to combat speed, but means that his reaction time is way beyond what we tought. I wouldn't place anyone here in the "moving as fast as lightning" list, they all reacted to and outrunned techniques using lightning, I can see them seeing lightnings in slowmotion (Actually, I think that even Kakashi in the beginning of Shippuden is in that list), but I doubt that anyone here moves as fast as a natural lightning or have a feat that puts them way beyond the others, it's not something truly quantifiable.

Right now, I can see Ichigo being as fast as Naruto and Sasuke, but until he gets more feats I think that it's stretching too much to give him a massive advantage even with his shunpo, but I insist that Kenpachi isn't ready to be in this thread though, right now he is leagues below everyone here.

you mean the moon sized sword that toneri just swing down and hit naruto? is that a speed feat? remember ichigo at normal speed blitz lightning he can move even faster than that. Ichigo at normal speed needed a week to get to the seireitei he at full speed made it in half a day that's 14 times faster than his normal speed.

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#32 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (31807 posts) - - Show Bio

Naruto one shots.

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#33 Posted by Hiddenlight (3749 posts) - - Show Bio

@hiddenlight said:
@marco_alonso said:
@hiddenlight said:

@marco_alonso said:

@hiddenlight said:

Ichigo is indeed a threat to them individually, but Kenpachi is at best Small Country Level in damage output (Then we will see a lot of eyepatch arguments being used, but unless I see the scale of his powers without the eyepatch I can't see that being used here), and that means nothing to those two. And FTL speed? I would be glad to hear that, last time I checked they were just Massively Hypersonic+, both Naruto and Sasuke are in the subrelativistic range so that means nothing, at best Ichigo is equally faster than them.

That being said, this is a cool battle, but I will wait to see more feats from Ichigo before picking a side, right now I'm siding with the ninjas. Honestly, I think that Ichigo and Yhwach (Or Aizen) would be a better team-up here.

For Ichigo a lightning is really slow and Naruto and Sasuke can evade lightnings. Yhwach and Aizen we don't know how powerful they are really. For all we know Yhwach can be universal lv since he absorbed the god and Aizen appears to be as strong as his butterfly form while chained.

For everyone here a lightning is really really really slow (I don't know about Kenpachi though), but FTL usually means Faster than Light, not Faster than Lightning, there's a huge speed difference between those. Light is around 300.000km/s while an electron drift is something around 20.000km/s in the air.http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/naruto-and-sasuke-vs-ichigo-and-kenpachi-1762432/?messageId=16119090#js-message-22

that's odd

i got 2 websites that says lightning moves at 186,000 miles per second nearly the speed of light. though the specific speed of light is 186 282.397 mile per second is pretty close anyway. but it mostly depends on the air temperature. even so if we say the speed of lightning is slower that makes no difference. Ichigo blitz lightnings, Naruto and Sasuke evade lightnings, Kenpachi while nerfed almost catch by surprise a lightning speed chick and blitz missiles casually. if we say is a modern missile as it appears then it easily makes it a feat of Mach 10+ speed. but anyway my stand is still there Ichigo is MFTLing, Naruto and Sasuke are FTLing and Kenpachi is FTS.

186000 miles per second is maybe the speed of the light coming from the lightning, light doesn't always move at the same speeds, the umidity of the air probably reduces its speed by some margin. The speed of the lightning bolt itself is the same as drift velocity and it is determined by the conductor. Of course it changes depending on the atmospheric conditions, and the fact that lightning aren't linear, but as air is a really bad conductor we don't really see anything way beyond 1/3 of the speed of light, and even that is under perfect conditions (Also depends on if the lightning is coming from the ground to the sky or the opposite).

That being said, I don't see a huge speed difference between Ichigo and the Ninja duo, actually, from everyone here, the one that holds the best truly quantifiable speed feat so far (and even in his own universe) is Naruto. He blocked Toneri's sword when the same sword took 1 second to cross Moon's diameter, and I'm not talking about when he dodged Toneri's swinging the sword, but about when he blasted Naruto right away. Of course that doesn't equal to combat speed, but means that his reaction time is way beyond what we tought. I wouldn't place anyone here in the "moving as fast as lightning" list, they all reacted to and outrunned techniques using lightning, I can see them seeing lightnings in slowmotion (Actually, I think that even Kakashi in the beginning of Shippuden is in that list), but I doubt that anyone here moves as fast as a natural lightning or have a feat that puts them way beyond the others, it's not something truly quantifiable.

Right now, I can see Ichigo being as fast as Naruto and Sasuke, but until he gets more feats I think that it's stretching too much to give him a massive advantage even with his shunpo, but I insist that Kenpachi isn't ready to be in this thread though, right now he is leagues below everyone here.

you mean the moon sized sword that toneri just swing down and hit naruto? is that a speed feat? remember ichigo at normal speed blitz lightning he can move even faster than that. Ichigo at normal speed needed a week to get to the seireitei he at full speed made it in half a day that's 14 times faster than his normal speed.

He didn't swing it down in the second time, I think that you should rewatch the fight bro:

Loading Video...

Naruto reacted to an attack that crossed moon's diameter in one second (Put at 3min14seconds). And traveling speed means nothing, Naruto and Sasuke crossed many countries in moments when they were going to the valley of the end to their last fight lol. Everyone here can react to lightning without any problems, this don't make Ichigo special in this fight. The only problem for his team is Kenpachi, as he doesn't have the same speed feats.

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#34 Posted by NeonGameWave (19333 posts) - - Show Bio

Team Naruto.

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#35 Edited by Marco_Alonso (65 posts) - - Show Bio
@hiddenlight said:
@marco_alonso said:
@hiddenlight said:
@marco_alonso said:
@hiddenlight said:

@marco_alonso said:

@hiddenlight said:

Ichigo is indeed a threat to them individually, but Kenpachi is at best Small Country Level in damage output (Then we will see a lot of eyepatch arguments being used, but unless I see the scale of his powers without the eyepatch I can't see that being used here), and that means nothing to those two. And FTL speed? I would be glad to hear that, last time I checked they were just Massively Hypersonic+, both Naruto and Sasuke are in the subrelativistic range so that means nothing, at best Ichigo is equally faster than them.

That being said, this is a cool battle, but I will wait to see more feats from Ichigo before picking a side, right now I'm siding with the ninjas. Honestly, I think that Ichigo and Yhwach (Or Aizen) would be a better team-up here.

For Ichigo a lightning is really slow and Naruto and Sasuke can evade lightnings. Yhwach and Aizen we don't know how powerful they are really. For all we know Yhwach can be universal lv since he absorbed the god and Aizen appears to be as strong as his butterfly form while chained.

For everyone here a lightning is really really really slow (I don't know about Kenpachi though), but FTL usually means Faster than Light, not Faster than Lightning, there's a huge speed difference between those. Light is around 300.000km/s while an electron drift is something around 20.000km/s in the air.http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/naruto-and-sasuke-vs-ichigo-and-kenpachi-1762432/?messageId=16119090#js-message-22

that's odd

i got 2 websites that says lightning moves at 186,000 miles per second nearly the speed of light. though the specific speed of light is 186 282.397 mile per second is pretty close anyway. but it mostly depends on the air temperature. even so if we say the speed of lightning is slower that makes no difference. Ichigo blitz lightnings, Naruto and Sasuke evade lightnings, Kenpachi while nerfed almost catch by surprise a lightning speed chick and blitz missiles casually. if we say is a modern missile as it appears then it easily makes it a feat of Mach 10+ speed. but anyway my stand is still there Ichigo is MFTLing, Naruto and Sasuke are FTLing and Kenpachi is FTS.

186000 miles per second is maybe the speed of the light coming from the lightning, light doesn't always move at the same speeds, the umidity of the air probably reduces its speed by some margin. The speed of the lightning bolt itself is the same as drift velocity and it is determined by the conductor. Of course it changes depending on the atmospheric conditions, and the fact that lightning aren't linear, but as air is a really bad conductor we don't really see anything way beyond 1/3 of the speed of light, and even that is under perfect conditions (Also depends on if the lightning is coming from the ground to the sky or the opposite).

That being said, I don't see a huge speed difference between Ichigo and the Ninja duo, actually, from everyone here, the one that holds the best truly quantifiable speed feat so far (and even in his own universe) is Naruto. He blocked Toneri's sword when the same sword took 1 second to cross Moon's diameter, and I'm not talking about when he dodged Toneri's swinging the sword, but about when he blasted Naruto right away. Of course that doesn't equal to combat speed, but means that his reaction time is way beyond what we tought. I wouldn't place anyone here in the "moving as fast as lightning" list, they all reacted to and outrunned techniques using lightning, I can see them seeing lightnings in slowmotion (Actually, I think that even Kakashi in the beginning of Shippuden is in that list), but I doubt that anyone here moves as fast as a natural lightning or have a feat that puts them way beyond the others, it's not something truly quantifiable.

Right now, I can see Ichigo being as fast as Naruto and Sasuke, but until he gets more feats I think that it's stretching too much to give him a massive advantage even with his shunpo, but I insist that Kenpachi isn't ready to be in this thread though, right now he is leagues below everyone here.

you mean the moon sized sword that toneri just swing down and hit naruto? is that a speed feat? remember ichigo at normal speed blitz lightning he can move even faster than that. Ichigo at normal speed needed a week to get to the seireitei he at full speed made it in half a day that's 14 times faster than his normal speed.

He didn't swing it down in the second time, I think that you should rewatch the fight bro:

Loading Video...

Naruto reacted to an attack that crossed moon's diameter in one second (Put at 3min14seconds). And traveling speed means nothing, Naruto and Sasuke crossed many countries in moments when they were going to the valley of the end to their last fight lol. Everyone here can react to lightning without any problems, this don't make Ichigo special in this fight. The only problem for his team is Kenpachi, as he doesn't have the same speed feats.

naruto reacted to the same blast, yes that much is true but the speed is not said. not just the attack didn't had anu

Loading Video...

if you see Naruto what does is run to normal speed against the blast and then charge his chakra to the hand to overpower the blast. technically what he did was this

Loading Video...

stop a powerful attack with his bare hand. the problem is ichigo doesn't just react to a lightning he can but he doesn't just react he fly at them and even have time to charge a attack

http://imgur.com/gallery/92dHK/new

pretty much what he does is blitz a lightning. Naruto what does is counter by throwing something and sasuke telporting away. pretty much what they do is this

http://imgur.com/gallery/eUSk7/new

Ichigo is way faster than the rest in this place. Naruto and Sasuke does appear to surpass them in shown durability since they took a multicountry shaking explosion directly

http://imgur.com/gallery/nlnen/new

this was while enhanced at maximum, Naruto with Natural Chakra and fusioned with 3 clones of kyuubi and sasuke absorbed the nine tailed beast into his susanoo.

so i don't doubt Kenpachi and Ichigo will have a hard time putting them down but they can put them down

http://imgur.com/gallery/19yb8/new

you have to also remember that Kenpachi's attack was casual.

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#36 Posted by Jiraiya_sageofoil (2313 posts) - - Show Bio

@marco_alonso: that whole arc took place in 7-10 days including training, fighting, resting, and sleeping, . the 13 gotei isn't a country . the whole soul society is but the gotei is pretty much a city inside the soul society.

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#37 Edited by MudaMudaMuda (5354 posts) - - Show Bio

@marco_alonso: How do you know Kenpachi is country level ? Destroying the meteorite does not make him country level.

if you see Naruto what does is run to normal speed against the blast and then charge his chakra to the hand to overpower the blast. technically what he did was this

stop a powerful attack with his bare hand. the problem is ichigo doesn't just react to a lightning he can but he doesn't just react he fly at them and even have time to charge a attack

"Normal speed" are you seriously basing this on animation speed ?

And what they did is the exact same thing : See an attack coming > Move towards it > Prepare a counter > Counter attack.

The only difference is that the beam Naruto countered is obviously much faster than lightning.

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#38 Edited by Marco_Alonso (65 posts) - - Show Bio
@jiraiya_sageofoil said:

@marco_alonso: that whole arc took place in 7-10 days including training, fighting, resting, and sleeping, . the 13 gotei isn't a country . the whole soul society is but the gotei is pretty much a city inside the soul society.

that same arc happen to be running all the time and never find a end. and they didn't walk even half the seireitei barely 1/3 in one line while taking shortcuts.

@mudamudamuda said:

@marco_alonso: How do you know Kenpachi is country level ? Destroying the meteorite does not make him country level.

there is calc of gremmy's meteor making it continental to big moon lv but that's really smocked up

http://www.t5forums.com/forum/the-vs-sections/general-discussion/calcs/67220-gremmy-s-meteor-calc-accepted?_=1441987797735

it was accepted as a fact in that place, idk if this place accept calc but the seireitei takes 40 days to walk around it. in a movie it has a diameter about 400 ri. there is also from the sky from ichigo's perspective that's minimum 2000 meters above the seireitei and still doesn't see the end of the seireitei

http://manga-joy.com/wp-content/manga/912/583/013.jpg

without calculating the seireitei is always small country lv at minimum. add that kenpachi destroy the thing that was going to destroy the seireitei with sheer pure force. I mean i don't want to appear a wanker but that's country lv right there at minimum and if the same guy can do this

No Caption Provided

there is no reason to try to lowball the feat.

PD there is also a calc to the power kenpachi used to destroy the meteor but is really smocked up as well I mean mathematically this calcs are not wrong but is seriously hard to believe.

http://www.t5forums.com/forum/the-vs-sections/general-discussion/calcs/120212-bleach-calc-kenpachi-cuts-up-gremmys-metheor

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#39 Posted by SoWhatsUp435 (340 posts) - - Show Bio

@barodas: Then I think naruto and sasuka will win with ranged attacks then

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#40 Posted by Hiddenlight (3749 posts) - - Show Bio

@marco_alonso: The difference though is that the exact same jutsu was the one that traveled the Moon's diameter in exactly one second, point blank, he was running towards Toneri, Toneri launched the attack (So it was the attack speed + Naruto's speed), Naruto had time to charge his cloak into his fist and then punched the attack, that's even clearer than the instance shown by you. Ulquiorra's attack wasn't shown to cover that big distance in such small fraction of time, while Toneri's one did.

The instance with Madara show to us even clearer that actually, Naruto casually blocks the lightning coming at him. I don't even find those impressive, since the beginning of shippuden characters could intercept and counter lightning attacks. Kakashi had time to jump in the middle of one, charge his Raikiri and counter even after they were fired lol.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

The same Kakashi that later saw Naruto as a blur in EoS (And the same one that cut a confirmed natural lightning in two).

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#41 Posted by Barodas (750 posts) - - Show Bio

@barodas: Then I think naruto and sasuka will win with ranged attacks then

You are aware that OP changed the planet so the gravity is normal?

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#42 Posted by dawnone (7265 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol people still haven't learned Naruto stomps bleachverse.

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#43 Posted by RoyRodgersMcFreely (1572 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol at casual FTL Ichigo. Either Naruto or Sasuke stomp.

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#44 Posted by SoWhatsUp435 (340 posts) - - Show Bio
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#45 Posted by Barodas (750 posts) - - Show Bio
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#46 Edited by Marco_Alonso (65 posts) - - Show Bio

@marco_alonso: The difference though is that the exact same jutsu was the one that traveled the Moon's diameter in exactly one second, point blank, he was running towards Toneri, Toneri launched the attack (So it was the attack speed + Naruto's speed), Naruto had time to charge his cloak into his fist and then punched the attack, that's even clearer than the instance shown by you. Ulquiorra's attack wasn't shown to cover that big distance in such small fraction of time, while Toneri's one did.

same moon that was hollow and had half her rocks in space or in earth. is a reaction feat but not as impressive as you want it to appear. Naruto saw the attack comming from the moment Toneri charged it.

The instance with Madara show to us even clearer that actually, Naruto casually blocks the lightning coming at him. I don't even find those impressive, since the beginning of shippuden characters could intercept and counter lightning attacks. Kakashi had time to jump in the middle of one, charge his Raikiri and counter even after they were fired lol.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

The same Kakashi that later saw Naruto as a blur in EoS (And the same one that cut a confirmed natural lightning in two).

is impressive cause up until that point Naruto didn't had that type of speed. and yeah naruto can move really fast as well but he didn't blitz a lightning. he counter it. ichigo just does it way easier.

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#47 Edited by MudaMudaMuda (5354 posts) - - Show Bio

@marco_alonso said:
@mudamudamuda said:

@marco_alonso: How do you know Kenpachi is country level ? Destroying the meteorite does not make him country level.

there is calc of gremmy's meteor making it continental to big moon lv but that's really smocked up

http://www.t5forums.com/forum/the-vs-sections/general-discussion/calcs/67220-gremmy-s-meteor-calc-accepted?_=1441987797735

it was accepted as a fact in that place, idk if this place accept calc but the seireitei takes 40 days to walk around it. in a movie it has a diameter about 400 ri. there is also from the sky from ichigo's perspective that's minimum 2000 meters above the seireitei and still doesn't see the end of the seireitei

http://manga-joy.com/wp-content/manga/912/583/013.jpg

without calculating the seireitei is always small country lv at minimum. add that kenpachi destroy the thing that was going to destroy the seireitei with sheer pure force. I mean i don't want to appear a wanker but that's country lv right there at minimum and if the same guy can do this

there is no reason to try to lowball the feat.

Sorry, but that calc is fundamentally wrong for 2 reasons.

1) You cannot scale the size of the meteorite based on that panel because Kubo never draws anything to scale ever. If we follow the logic used in that scaling then the ball Ichigo and Co were sitting in when arriving to Seireiti the first time must be 100 km large

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

2) You cannot scale Kenpachi's attack power based on the kinetic energy of the meteorite because Kenpachi didn't stop the meteorite aka overcome it's kinetic energy, he destroyed it. Meaning that his feat is a feat of destroying a rock of the size of the meteorite, not a feat of destroying an area as big as the meteorite would have blasted with it's fireball upon crashing on the ground.

I'm not lowballing, I'm pointing out that if we start applying this logic to the feats then Naruto's TBBRS must be life wiper because they destroyed multiple of Madara's meteorites that could life wipe via calcs.

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#48 Posted by Marco_Alonso (65 posts) - - Show Bio
@marco_alonso said:
@mudamudamuda said:

@marco_alonso: How do you know Kenpachi is country level ? Destroying the meteorite does not make him country level.

there is calc of gremmy's meteor making it continental to big moon lv but that's really smocked up

http://www.t5forums.com/forum/the-vs-sections/general-discussion/calcs/67220-gremmy-s-meteor-calc-accepted?_=1441987797735

it was accepted as a fact in that place, idk if this place accept calc but the seireitei takes 40 days to walk around it. in a movie it has a diameter about 400 ri. there is also from the sky from ichigo's perspective that's minimum 2000 meters above the seireitei and still doesn't see the end of the seireitei

http://manga-joy.com/wp-content/manga/912/583/013.jpg

without calculating the seireitei is always small country lv at minimum. add that kenpachi destroy the thing that was going to destroy the seireitei with sheer pure force. I mean i don't want to appear a wanker but that's country lv right there at minimum and if the same guy can do this

there is no reason to try to lowball the feat.

Sorry, but that calc is fundamentally wrong for 2 reasons.

1) You cannot scale the size of the meteorite based on that panel because Kubo never draws anything to scale ever. If we follow the logic used in that scaling then the ball Ichigo and Co were sitting when arriving to Seireiti the first time must be 100 km large

yeah that's the problem that's why i only give it country lv bc of the data that kubo gives us in the manga

2) You cannot scale Kenpachi's attack power based on the kinetic energy of the meteorite because Kenpachi didn't stop the meteorite aka overcome it's kinetic energy, he destroyed it. Meaning that his feat is a feat of destroying a rock of the size of the meteorite, not a feat of destroying an area as big as the meteorite would have blasted with it's fire ball upon crashing on the ground.

another reason.

I'm not lowballing, I'm pointing out that if we start applying this logic to the fats then Naruto's TBBRS must be life wiper because they destroyed multiple of Madara's meteorites that could life wipe via calcs.

yeah i know that.

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#49 Posted by Hiddenlight (3749 posts) - - Show Bio

@hiddenlight said:

@marco_alonso: The difference though is that the exact same jutsu was the one that traveled the Moon's diameter in exactly one second, point blank, he was running towards Toneri, Toneri launched the attack (So it was the attack speed + Naruto's speed), Naruto had time to charge his cloak into his fist and then punched the attack, that's even clearer than the instance shown by you. Ulquiorra's attack wasn't shown to cover that big distance in such small fraction of time, while Toneri's one did.

same moon that was hollow and had half her rocks in space or in earth. is a reaction feat but not as impressive as you want it to appear. Naruto saw the attack comming from the moment Toneri charged it.

The instance with Madara show to us even clearer that actually, Naruto casually blocks the lightning coming at him. I don't even find those impressive, since the beginning of shippuden characters could intercept and counter lightning attacks. Kakashi had time to jump in the middle of one, charge his Raikiri and counter even after they were fired lol.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

The same Kakashi that later saw Naruto as a blur in EoS (And the same one that cut a confirmed natural lightning in two).

is impressive cause up until that point Naruto didn't had that type of speed. and yeah naruto can move really fast as well but he didn't blitz a lightning. he counter it. ichigo just does it way easier.

The moon being hollow or not (That can be discussed, doesn't change the fact that the attack surprassed the gravity binding of the moon, that in Narutoverse is as strong as Earth's one, the Moon halfs never showed any sign that they were going to move together any sooner) doesn't change its diameter, which is what we're discussing when determining the speed of the attack lol.

They only need to be able to react to a lightning in order to bullrush it/counter it/evade it etc, none of those feats requires to them lightning speed, and what Ichigo did wasn't more impressive than the feat against Toneri, or even the Kakashi's feat against Kakuzu lol. He literally entered in the middle of the course of a lightning bolt, charged his attack and then blocked it. Naruto didn't even needed to move, he did that more casually than Ichigo in the instance that you've shown, Madara was still channeling his attack, Naruto disappeared and appeared again in his side before he could even notice, remembering that unlike Sasuke Naruto is unable to teleport, so he had to do that with sheer speed (Actually later Sasuke also blitzed Madara without teleporting).

Also, there's no need to downball the golden wheel feat. Naruto was already running when Toneri launched the attack, it was a point-blank shot and yet Naruto had time to blitz it and punch Toneri in the face. Remembering that when two objects move at each other, the relative speed between them is the sum of their speeds, and yet Naruto could react at those speeds. Even to jonins of the same skill as Kakashi, Naruto in his fodder KCM looked like a flash of light when moving.

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#50 Posted by MudaMudaMuda (5354 posts) - - Show Bio

@marco_alonso:

yeah that's the problem that's why i only give it country lv bc of the data that kubo gives us in the manga

another reason.

I see, how big do you think the meteorite was then ? And do you realize that that doesn't give kenpachi country level Dc right ? As I said it means that Kenpachi can destroy an area as large as the meteorite, so if the meteorite is 500 km he can destroy an area 500 km large, if it is 100 km he can destroy an area 100 km large etc

The only case where Kenpachi would have country level DC from destroying a meteorite is if the meteorite itself is country large