Win by KO or death
Luffy scaled lightspeed too slow in base I recall. I've seen some people label Luffy close to planetary on here. Now don't attack me I'm just curious about current luffy lmao. The same thing for Luffy.
I definitely assume Luffy to be FTL+ and that was post-time skip. With arcs, improvement of haki and forms. It has only gotten faster. I could go into detail to explain but that would be too lengthy for a simple reply.
To the topic, Team 2 wins in my book. Ichigo basically cements this.
Unless of course you believe Deathbattle's version of events and that Naruto just outclasses him in raw power, then sure Naruto beats Ichigo. However then you have to take DB's estimate of Luffy's speed feat of being 13x of light and that's post-time skip. Sooooo....
Team 2. :)
Luffy called lightspeed too slow in base I recall. I've seen some people label Luffy close to planetary on here. Now don't attack me I'm just curious about current luffy lmao. The same thing for Ichigo.
When? By that logic he wouldn't get his shit pushed in by Kizaru who's stated to be light speed
Light speed One Piece characters are a myth, if a character was FTL then they'd have no trouble with Kizaru as they'd be able to avoid all of his attacks.
@curbstomped17: Light speed One Piece characters are a myth, if a character was FTL then they'd have no trouble with Kizaru as they'd be able to avoid all of his attacks.
Fodder like niji was stated in the viver card to move and attack at ls and he pilots same ls attack to hit specific targets while in a crowd to do so would require at least relativistic +/ls reaction speed
Oda even goes as far as to name the Blade taychon blade
Same niji along with his brothers still couldn't escape from katakuri and bigmom despite them desperately trying to do so as their life depended on it
This is proof enough that ls is fodder low tier to most op top tiers as niji operates at that tier if not above and even fishman island luffy calls ls TOO SLOW.
Kizaru was also never stated to move at ls ..only his devil fruit was..which means he can move at a different tier of speed than his df while not using it
So it's flawed cap him raw physical speed to the lvl of his df for no reason
If Luffy blitzes and punches Naruto in the head with CoC, what do you guys think would happen?
Regardless, you can’t have Ichigo any lower than planet-multi planet level from one shotting Yhwach in Bankai. He’s also way faster, so I think he just one shots Naruto.
Toneri feat you can probably get to continental, and him moving the moon was a result of years of Hamura storing up chakra. Don’t wank this feat anymore. Naruto is likely moon level-small planet level from scaling regardless.
Ichigo carries and wins here, due to superior AP and speed
By the way, those who claim that Ichigo defeated Yhwach with one blow at the end of the manga, then you should know this is the most humiliating and useless feat that he had. Yhwach was shot by Ishida' plot arrow, which robbed him of all his abilities making him completely vulnerable for a short period of time, and even then Ichigo with difficulties chop him up.
show me some of ywach'a planet level durability feats.
I'll give you a crash course on how Bleach works. Reiatsu scales to stats. This is canon.
More reiatsu, more stats. This is literally shown throughout the entire series, Ichigo vs Kenpachi, Ichigo vs Aizen, so many fights show that reiatsu = stats.
Yhwach's dead corpse had enough reiatsu to stabilize the 3 worlds from collapsing. Not only this, but he also has the power to reform the three worlds after they have been destroyed. This obviously takes planet levels of reiatsu, nothing less.
The same way you need country levels of reiatsu to harm Ulquiorra, because he himself has country levels of reiatsu inside him from being able to spam Lanza (he created three), you need planet to multi-planet levels of reiatsu to harm Yhwach. Otherwise, the attack would just be tanked, just like Yhwach tanked Ichigo's Gran Rey Cero.
I'm not even counting the destruction of the Garganta, just lowballing for you :)
Also he was weakened by the plot arrow.
Do you remember that he one-shot him and killed him before the plot arrow, with a Getsuga Tenshou?
@manimalman: Furthermore, don't say I need an on-panel feat as if it disregards my argument, because you and I both know fully well no one in Bleach has destroyed a planet on panel. If you do, I'll switch my argument and ask for on-panel feats for Naruto's soul destruction resistance (since Shinigami directly attack souls) and durability feats. Don't open a can of worms.
@horroreto2: None of them are FTL, if they had such a speed, then Naruto or Ichigo would have crossed the entire planet in a couple of seconds.
Has any of them shown a speed comparable to the speed of Bambina to claim that they have FTL?
Yhwach lost all his strength because of the arrow of Isis and that's the only reason Ichigo was able to cut Yhwach who didn't care about Getsuga Tenshou + Gran Rey Cero.
@lexa59: they aren't required to have FTL travel speed to be FTL in combat and reaction( bambina is MFTL to MFTL + also )
I can already see here FTL.
I am surprised how people continue to jerk off this stupid farce, Ichigo's strongest attacks did nothing to Yhwach, but unexpectedly at the end when Yahweh was weakened, Ichigo was able to do something to him.
Just why do crazy people use ridiculous plot plums as arguments? Ichigo could not oppose anything to Yahweh, those moments when Ichigo was able to hit him, and Yahweh did not see it through the Almighty or could not block it, when he did it even without using full force immediately, just a facepalm. 🤦♂️
I find it funny how people keep confusing AP and DC. I also heavily disagree with the idea of Ichigo stomping Naruto or vice versa. Anyone claiming such is just being outlandish.
OT: Ichigo loses to Naruto because of his nature as a brick. The other two opponents die before Ichigo goes down.
@ninjarizer: so we're just supposed to believe he's got planet level durability because he was gonna collapse the bleach worlds into one despite him never demonstrating any durability on that scale?
Despite the previous guy that was holding the world together was bisected by a casual slash.
Or that the nature of the bleach worlds means that relatively small changes in reiatsu can do what yhwach was trying to do. Like how an extra 28000 normal souls was enough of a disturbance that SS had them executed. Do those 28000 people collectively get planet lvl durability too?
Nvm that the reiatsu defence thing is pretty inconsistent characters who aren't on the same level still hurt each other pretty often.
Idk, to me ywach having that kind of durability seems more like wishful thinking than any hard fact imo.
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