Nappa vs Kaguya

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nwname

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#1 nwname  Moderator
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Manga versions

Starts 100 meters apart on Earth

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FickFickFire

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#2  Edited By FickFickFire
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Nappa elbowed Ko'd Piccolo with a PL of 3,500 (2,33x Raditz)

And as I have shown before, 10K PL is 3x earth size. Thus Nappa one-shotted a planet level character.

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MasterBuster666

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Ash Bones GG, Kaguya is too much.

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darkphantom9895

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Nappa literally gets blitzed just like the cloud did to him

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FickFickFire

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@darkphantom9895: That doesn't matter and Nappa>>Raditz who dodged a relativistic blast

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darkphantom9895

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@fickfickfire: that does matter as the cloud has a given speed and it’s nowhere near that

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FickFickFire

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#7  Edited By FickFickFire

@darkphantom9895: Also Kid Goku surpassed lighting speed and Kaguya got blitzed by Sakura who is below So6P Naruto train level speed.

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XD_ist

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#8  Edited By XD_ist

@darkphantom9895: I think it's a massive outlier... Piccolo kept up with the nimbus earlier in the arc.

I don't think SS is rel or LS, I just think using that is silly

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darkphantom9895

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@fickfickfire: kid Goku didn’t surpass lightning the training wasn’t about speed but rather being able to feel/sense it

Also train level speed lol

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Eredin12

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#10  Edited By Eredin12

@xd_ist:

I don't think SS is rel

I mean it pretty clearly is, casual blast from Piccolo reached moon in seconds while Raditz dodged it.

OT: I think even Six Paths Naruto would beat Nappa up just fine, never mind Kaguya.

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oceanmaster21

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could go either way

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GavLa

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The only planet level character in that saga is Vegeta and with his best technique using all his power.

Kaguya is far above the planet level, she is stronger than Naruto who was able to cut the Shinju (final form of the juubi) who according to the manga is capable of extending deeply into a planet and reaching all its corners, and in second form the Juubi was already compared to a planet because of its enormous chakra, even just the juubi husk resists all the pressure of the lunar mass.

Kaguya has more raw power than Nappa and Vegeta from that saga, she also has more hax. She wins very easily.

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FickFickFire

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@eredin12: So6P Naruto can't even damage Raditz so how would he beat Nappa?

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DerTilt

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Nappa blitzes and solos the verse

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nwname

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#15 nwname  Moderator

Ash Bones GG, Kaguya is too much.

Do you think ash bone is strong enough to pierce Nappa?

@eredin12 said:

@xd_ist:

I don't think SS is rel

I mean it pretty clearly is, casual blast from Piccolo reached moon in seconds while Raditz dodged it.

OT: I think even Six Paths Naruto would beat Nappa up just fine, never mind Kaguya.

Raditz moved a small fraction of the distance the beam did so maybe =<1% sol as a high end for him. That is, if we consider the beams same speed despite being different beams. But considering everything else around that saga, seems like an outlier unless you think he can up his speed by orders of magnitude for a short instant.

@dertilt said:

Nappa blitzes and solos the verse

He can't beat edo tensei or Shibai.

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Supreme101

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Kaguya had the power of creating warping and even destroying spacetimes how does she not slam

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Eredin12

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#17  Edited By Eredin12

@nwname: Beam Raditz dodged, SBC, can only be faster, not slower than the beam that destroyed moon, since it is established in universe that as power level increases, speed does too along with it, and SBC had lot higher power level than that his casual blast, since all of his energy is focused into SBC

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This also, of course, applies to Kamehameha Goku used to a lesser extent, which Raditz outran for a time as well. Speaking about SBC, it was pretty close to Raditz, a few meters away from him, before he decided to move/dodge it:

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But considering everything else around that saga, seems like an outlier unless you think he can up his speed by orders of magnitude for a short instant.

DB characters always had much higher combat speed than long-distance travel speed. Kid Goku for example was specifically confirmed to be faster than lightning in combat for that reason, so it is not outlier, they just indeed have much better burst/combat speed than sustained travel speed.

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uchihaghost

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She blinks and he gets bfr'ed, or she casts IT on him, or she teleports an ash bone through his skull

Nobody in the SS has the stats to null kags instant hax, she is too broken for anyone not named freiza.

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Aksilroch

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@supreme101: That attack didn't do anything. Also she is physically far weaker than Nappa and far less durable by feats.

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Aksilroch

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#20  Edited By Aksilroch

@nwname: If you are going to use that logic the speed feat of Naruto dodging Madara Light Fang is than even far less than 1% LS. Since he was in Madara face

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uchihaghost

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@supreme101: That attack didn't do anything. Also she is physically far weaker than Nappa and far less durable by feats.

Why yall be arguing like yall be new to debating?? What feats does nappa have thats impressive? He relies 100% on scaling

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Aksilroch

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#22  Edited By Aksilroch

@uchihaghost: Uhm, he punched Gohan's moon vaping blast away, elbowed Ko'd Piccolo, tanked several moon+ level attacks etc and everyone except Gohan is above Raditz.

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BigSnacks785x

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Kaguya could solo even the entire saiyan sage via infinite tsukuyomi napa cant do nothing to her she is immortal with great regernation bfr him into a diffrent dimension subdue him into sleep and expansive truth seeking ball would do alot of damage or unleash ash bone killing ash through his heart and she can controll all elements i think napa doesnt have nothing that cool hes just physical strong with ki thats all

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EstrellaDeLeonn

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Kaguya solos Saiyan saga and most of Namek.

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GreyTheJiren

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If Kaguya plays it right she can even solo Namek, without prep.

Nappa is just too haxless to stand a chance, she leaves him in one of her Dimensions.

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MaulSmacker

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Aksilroch

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#27  Edited By Aksilroch
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EstrellaDeLeonn

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#28  Edited By EstrellaDeLeonn

@aksilroch: Stats are irrelevant unfortunately, also Raditz is like, slow asf and so is Nappa

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Aksilroch

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Edgelord91

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She should be able to out hax and maneuver nappa but lol at her clearing Namek

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EstrellaDeLeonn

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EstrellaDeLeonn

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#32  Edited By EstrellaDeLeonn
@edgelord91 said:

She should be able to out hax and maneuver nappa but lol at her clearing Namek

Most of it is eaz pezy. BFR them, they got no counters + they usually stand there and let the enemy attack first.

Kaguya should be easily ftl, so enough to keep up in speed, not that DBZ characters in Namek that aren't Goku, Frieza, and Vegeta/Piccolo got any scaling to be above that anyhow

Also mind screwing them, Ash Bone'ing them as I don't recall piercing durability for them(Nappa would have died to the Kienzan of a far weaker Krillin btw, had Vegeta not warned him), or erasing them and the planet with an ETSO considering they likely cannot kill her.

Overall ngl, Saiyan Saga much less Nappa are getting dunked on.

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Aksilroch

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#33  Edited By Aksilroch

@estrelladeleonn: Well, King Piccolo Saga Mr.Popo with a PL of 288 is quicker than lighting so Raditz dodging makes sense PL and feat wise.

Btw piercing attacks will not work since Trunks sword shattered when he hit Android 18 the same sword that cut a stronger Frieza than Namek in pieces who while 99,99% of his Ki gone, cut in half, severely beaten survived Namek explosion at point plank distance/literally on the planet surface.

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EstrellaDeLeonn

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@aksilroch: We have no idea how much speed increases except with Kaioken, which explicitly amps speed.

Faster than lightning ++, is all we would know regarding Raditz's speed in this case. Which is ok, but kind of a downplay, don't you think, he can with difficulty react to beams faster than ones that reach the moon in a few panels, from a decent distance although, making him sub relativistic, maybe relativistic.

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EstrellaDeLeonn

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#35  Edited By EstrellaDeLeonn
@aksilroch said:

@estrelladeleonn: Well, King Piccolo Saga Mr.Popo with a PL of 288 is quicker than lighting so Raditz dodging makes sense PL and feat wise.

Btw piercing attacks will not work since Trunks sword shattered when he hit Android 18 the same sword that cut a stronger Frieza than Namek in pieces who while 99,99% of his Ki gone, cut in half, severely beaten survived Namek explosion at point plank distance/literally on the planet surface.

Nappa isn't orders of magnitude stronger than Kaguya, unlike 18 with Trunks. Krillin's Kienzan threatened Nappa, and Krillin is about 1/4th as strong as Nappa, if not less. Heck, Goku went Kaioken just to make it in time before Nappa killed Gohan/Krillin, and oneshotted him with it.

Kienzan was still a threat. And resistance against explosions, does not equate to resistance against cutting, which is just an enormous power in this case, concentrated in small areas/surfaces.

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Aksilroch

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@estrelladeleonn: I didn't say Raditz is lightning++ speed ut the gap isn't linear. Also SPC should be faster than the attack that destroyed the moon, since Piccolo failed on his first attempt and increased it PL even further in his second attempt and we have Flayk blast vaping the moon and reaching it in few panels like Piccolo another relativistic and moon vaping feat and Flayk fought lower class Saiyan far below Raditz. I think around BoZ Piccolo and Goku level.

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uchihaghost

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@uchihaghost: Uhm, he punched Gohan's moon vaping blast away, elbowed Ko'd Piccolo, tanked several moon+ level attacks etc and everyone except Gohan is above Raditz.

So scaling 🥴🥴, just sit down

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EstrellaDeLeonn

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@aksilroch: That's what I said, yes..

However, we do not have a specific time frame for the moon destroying beam. It could be a few seconds, several, dozens, etc.

I am usually fine with relativistic Raditz, and Nappa is unquantifiably faster than that.

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Aksilroch

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@estrelladeleonn: Well, Nappa alone is 2,33 times Raditz who no sold and caught a moon vaping blast from Goku and Piccolo which is far above baseline moon level who are above Buff Roshi. Nappa is imo planet level, because on Vsbattle I saw a scan where Champa states that the Super Dragon Balls are almost the size of a planet and the stated size is 37,196 km so basically 3x times since its almost not exactly.

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EstrellaDeLeonn

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#40  Edited By EstrellaDeLeonn

@aksilroch: That level of speed superiority can be assumed only through headcanonical multipliers.

On top, the Super Dragon Balls are dispersed across Universe 6 and 7. If Champa states they're almost the size of a planet, he'd clearly refer to the planets in his own universe, Nappa belongs to Universe 7, obviously. And nothing even remotely references, in Saiyan saga, even consistently, someone like Nappa being a planet buster. That's Goku/Vegeta level.

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Aksilroch

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#41  Edited By Aksilroch

@estrelladeleonn: Except universe 6 and 7 are parallel/twin universes, they are virtually exactly the same. Also just because Nappa never threatened to destroy earth doesn't mean he can't like Vegeta.

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EstrellaDeLeonn

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#42  Edited By EstrellaDeLeonn

@aksilroch: Except you're forgetting the fact the Saiyans aren't extinct in Universe 6 and the Earth is a wasteland.

Not to mention, Earth is...Earth sized, obviously, planet busting till further proof, assumes Earth sized planets.

That's the level of Galick-Ho Vegeta in Saiyan saga...a canonical planet buster.

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Aksilroch

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#43  Edited By Aksilroch

@estrelladeleonn: Even if we ignore that Nappa should be small planet level and earth has been referred as a SMALL planet not regular btw.

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EstrellaDeLeonn

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#44  Edited By EstrellaDeLeonn

@aksilroch: Perhaps a Mercury or even Mars sized planet, that wouldn't be far fetched.

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Supreme101

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@uchihaghost: well he did shake the planet by just powering up but yeah not much else.

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Aksilroch

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#46  Edited By Aksilroch

@estrelladeleonn: But how do deal that earth is called a small planet? The idea of differences between planet size isn't out of thin air. Planet Vegeta is called an enormous planet in the Broly Movie Novel so Jupiter size with 10x earth. Planet Namek is called "not to big of a planet". So larger than earth.

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EstrellaDeLeonn

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#47  Edited By EstrellaDeLeonn

@aksilroch: Idk tbh. King Cold and Frieza consider Earth a small planet.

I would say large planet buster tier starts at first form Frieza, unless you go with dwarf star level calcs or smth, but not really an expert of calcs so, shrug

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deactivated-667783547fe80

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What's stopping Kaguya from BFR'ing Nappa to another dimension

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Aksilroch

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@estrelladeleonn: I think it should be dwarf/small star level especially with 10x earth''s gravity and how casual it was. I don't think Frieza went all out with effort and sweat to destroy it. He was smurking like it's a small matter.

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Eredin12

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#50  Edited By Eredin12

@estrelladeleonn: Tbh I dont think in character really works here completely, as Kaguya herself usually does not start with things like mind screwing or ETSB either.

As for Piccolo beam reaching moon, It happened in one panel, and the anime gives it an exact time frame of 3 seconds, so I would say Raditz is definitely relativistic. But yeah I agree for sure that Kaguya can clear the Saiyan Saga.