Namor vs. Colossus and Luke Cage

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MarlboroMan

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#1  Edited By MarlboroMan

In character but pissed at each other

Rainy weather

All of them are current 616 versions

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Wolverine008

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Namor's last encounter with Luke Cage didn't go too well.....

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juiceboks

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#3 juiceboks  Moderator

Dare I start posting AvX scans and leave it that?

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MarlboroMan

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@juiceboks: @wolverine08: Yeah but that is just PIS his overall feats exceeds Luke Cage so many times it's not even funny

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juiceboks

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#5 juiceboks  Moderator

@juiceboks: @wolverine08: Yeah but that is just PIS his overall feats exceeds Luke Cage so many times it's not even funny

While I agree Luke shouldn't beat Namor in water, I wouldn't go as far to agree with the last part. Luke's been doing some crazy feats recently like stalemating Proxima Midnight and K.Oing She Hulk in one blow that shattered a city block.

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Manchine

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#6  Edited By Manchine

Namor

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GhostRavage

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@juiceboks:

crazy feats recently like stalemating Proxima Midnight

This is a VERY high end feat, im positive it's PIS. Proxima took on Hulk rather easily.

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juiceboks

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#8 juiceboks  Moderator

@juiceboks:

crazy feats recently like stalemating Proxima Midnight

This is a VERY high end feat, im positive it's PIS. Proxima took on Hulk rather easily.

IIRC she mainly stuck with her tech advantages in that fight to gain the upperhand. I don't recall her actually overpowering Hulk with strength..though the fight is a little vague in my memory so feel free to post it if you have it on hand.

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MICKEY-MOUSE

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@juiceboks: @wolverine08: Yeah but that is just PIS his overall feats exceeds Luke Cage so many times it's not even funny

extreme PIS to the point it insults intelligence

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GhostRavage

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@juiceboks: Her tech is what makes her as deadly as she is... Not using her tech is unpractical since she didn't show that much of strength and durability attributes. That being said, she also danced around Hulk which has an incredible upgrade in his speed to the point of performing speed blitz to speedsters and sort of without much trouble.

Could you post Luke Cage's fight? Im utterly impressed someone like Luke could beat her when Hulk was helpless against her.

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Wolverine008

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@juiceboks: Her tech is what makes her as deadly as she is... Not using her tech is unpractical since she didn't show that much of strength and durability attributes. That being said, she also danced around Hulk which has an incredible upgrade in his speed to the point of performing speed blitz to speedsters and sort of without much trouble.

Could you post Luke Cage's fight? Im utterly impressed someone like Luke could beat her when Hulk was helpless against her.

I don't think this is very impressive to be frank. Daredevil also managed to dance circles around a pissed off Hulk during Indestructible Hulk. Granted, Matt does have his superhuman agility and avoidance ability going for him, but I don't think anyone is going to argue that he's sporting metahuman speed.

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GhostRavage

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@wolverine08: Hulk was blinded and was barely using his speed like he was about to do in future issues.

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Wolverine008

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#13  Edited By Wolverine008
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GhostRavage

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@wolverine08: "Slowly" bull rushing into something he couldn't even tell what was... Tony didn't even know what happened when hulk saved him from the explosion, meta-human cowboys couldn't react to him and he punched them so fast he was seen as 1 silhouette with multiple arms. Proxima noted how Hulk was fast anyways.

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TheTruthIII

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Namor

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Wolverine008

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@ghostravage: He didn't seem to be slowly bull rushing into Daredevil. He was completely pissed. Might be wrong, haven't read the issue in about four months if my memory serves correctly. Not disagreeing in that Indestructible Hulk is fast I might add.

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NorrinBoltagonPrime21

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Namor

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juiceboks

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#18 juiceboks  Moderator

@ghostravage I mentioned the tech because she didn't really use it in her fight with Luke, so their encounters aren't all that comparable. I think her reputation as Thanos' top general feared across world's would suggest that she's pretty formidable in a h2h fight. We also see her smiling as she's flying through Earth's orbit so there's a durability feat right there.

He didn't actually beat her, in fact at first she sucker punched and K.Oed him after some good blows. But then after a rallying cry from the citizens, he gets back up and gets his licks in until Thanos' giant head comes and interrupts. This is what happened before big purple came.

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RetconCrisis

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#19  Edited By RetconCrisis

I still think Namor wins, even after AvX

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Wolverine008

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@ghostravage I mentioned the tech because she didn't really use it in her fight with Luke, so their encounters aren't all that comparable. I think her reputation as Thanos' top general feared across world's would suggest that she's pretty formidable in a h2h fight. We also see her smiling as she's flying through Earth's orbit so there's a durability feat right there.

He didn't actually beat her, in fact at first she sucker punched and K.Oed him after some good blows. But then after a rallying cry from the citizens, he gets back up and gets his licks in until Thanos' giant head comes and interrupts. This is what happened before big purple came.

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That was pretty badass showing from Luke.

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GhostRavage

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#21  Edited By GhostRavage

@wolverine08:

See the difference mate...

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Daredevil is able to outrun him while running towards the same direction as him... I think it's obvious Hulk wasn't using his speed when he can do this when knowing his target...

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He tackles an air plane that appeared from thin air with people barely noticing he rushed towards it... Literally, only a very vague green blur is visible, it was also the same artist that draw him as 1 silhouette with 3 arms when speed blitzing confirmed meta humans.

There's a BIG difference from being barely noticeable to being totally visible, let alone being outran by someone who doesn't posses any meta human stats. See my point?

Sorry for not posting more scans, but the image loader is quite slow at the moment.

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GhostRavage

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@juiceboks: Nice, i still think her not using her tech is somehow "stupid" but i see where you're coming from. That was pretty badass too.

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juiceboks

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#23  Edited By juiceboks  Moderator

@wolverine08@ghostravage I agree, that's got to be one of my favorite moments for Luke. It really captures his "never back down" attitude and shows he's more of a people's hero above all else.

Oh and to be fair, Proxima was caught off guard by Luke and she did use her spear to take down Spectrum. I guess she got caught up in the moment and opted for the more hands on approach .

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Fallschirmjager

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#24  Edited By Fallschirmjager

Again. I don't know (or care) if Namor is in another book other than New Avengers, but he has done absolutely nothing currently in that.

I'll take the team.

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God_Spawn

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#25 God_Spawn  Moderator

Namor's last encounter with Luke Cage didn't go too well.....

His last encounter was fantastic. He jumped Cage, threw him into a lake, beat the crap out of him, and the proceeded to use him as a bat against She-Hulk. It was wonderful.

As for the battle, Namor can win.

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God_Spawn

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#26  Edited By God_Spawn  Moderator

@wolverine08 said:

@ghostravage: He didn't seem to be slowly bull rushing into Daredevil. He was completely pissed. Might be wrong, haven't read the issue in about four months if my memory serves correctly. Not disagreeing in that Indestructible Hulk is fast I might add.

Hulk was blind and charging at the locations of the sounds of sonics, and Matt still dodged. It doesn't help Hulk's case that Waid is actually pretty faithful to sonics being incredibly effective against Daredevil.

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Wolverine008

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#27  Edited By Wolverine008

@wolverine08 said:

Namor's last encounter with Luke Cage didn't go too well.....

His last encounter was fantastic. He jumped Cage, threw him into a lake, beat the crap out of him, and the proceeded to use him as a bat against She-Hulk. It was wonderful.

As for the battle, Namor can win.

Haha, when did this instance occur? I was poking fun at Namor's fairly.... unimpressive performance against Luke and The Thing during AvX :D

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God_Spawn

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#28 God_Spawn  Moderator

@wolverine08: It was in their rematch in UXM 12 (I think?). I think it was Kieron Gillen's way of rectifying the atrocity that was Namor's performance in AvX against both the Thing and Luke Cage. Namor beat Cage after the sneak attack since Cage got him earlier. Then a freshly hydrated Namor stalemated the Thing.

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GhostRavage

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#29  Edited By GhostRavage

@god_spawn: You can see it the way you want, but is more than visible he wasn't charging as he consistently does in his current series. Barely dodging a Hulk that wasn't using his speed at his best is not the same as dancing around him. He blitzed meta-humans with superspeed, speed that was exclusively mentioned to make reference to Hulk's superior speed as it is implied plenty of times in his solo series as well as Avengers and Infinity. Iron Patriots couldn't outmaneuver him in Secret Avengers, i feel this argument is just for the sake of being nit picky about a single short instance to generalize his speed, which is flawed since that particular instance had significant plot behind as well as looking totally different from the others. Matt could barely dodge him anyways, if Hulk wasn't blind he would have reacted a LOT faster to keep up with him as well as charging with increased speed totally owning him (ignoring morals and character).

As for the sonics, Daredevil adjusted the weapon for the sound to be meaningless to him. At first he was on pain, right after he noticed the adjuster he was even able to talk to Maria fine and dandy, even easily hearing the heartbeats of a bunch of people from an upcoming bus while firing the weapon. This adjuster was referred 2 issues before when Banner mentioned the kinetic adjuster asking Daredevil how he perceives it, which Matt forwardly replied as "a sound he hears, but faintly".

In short words, Daredevil was dodging a blind Hulk, that wasn't really bull rushing as he consistently does, let alone following a noise that by the purpose it had, it MUST annoy Hulk to a high degree, not exactly a good way to follow a target.

On a side note: That's hardly a useful instance since Hulk didn't show anything positive in that instance. He was handicapped and didn't performed anything "incredible" whatsoever besides resisting high degree of subatomic rearrangement.

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God_Spawn

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#30  Edited By God_Spawn  Moderator

@ghostravage: I think it does matter. It shows an actual established character dodging the Hulk. Whether he was a blur at that moment doesn't matter since the point of it was to show Hulk actually attacking. He attacked in a few instances and Daredevil dodged. To me that showed Waid thinking an actual, established character can dodge a charging Hulk. Him "blitzing" some metahumans that aren't established to begin with doesn't fly for me. It's like using the saving a Tony Stark from an explosion (which is impressive)impressive, but not to the degree of saying Stark didn't know what happened. I was under the impression of him not expecting it since his eye wasn't even on the Hulk.

The sonics affected DD, he dodged a charging Hulk. Ergo street levelers can dodge Hulk. Feel free to agree to disagree, but I'm not budging on it.

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GhostRavage

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@god_spawn: Sure, let's agree to disagree. Anyway, im not saying Daredevil didn't dodge him because he did, im saying Daredevil didn't dodge Hulk while using his speed at his best, pretty much like any other instance which conveniently he wasn't blind nor is following blindly a target via a very disturbing noise that also aims to affect his subatomic structure.

As for the meta-humans, it was actually stablished in the same issue they were moving at super-speed.

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God_Spawn

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#32  Edited By God_Spawn  Moderator

@ghostravage: I know they were established meta-humans, but that doesn't make them established characters with history and consistent feats. Their speed was enough to make humans not see them or appear as blurs, that doesn't make their combat speed as such. Street levelers have done that all the time, and one point to other street levelers. Based on the instance of DD dodging him, a street leveler such as Daredevil can dodge him, as per Waid's thinking. And that doesn't really do anything against Hulk. Daredevil has some of the most consistent and best reflex feats in Marvel, is arguably the most acrobatic character, and his radar sense is said to be better than Parker's spider sense. Spider-Man has ran so fast he disappeared to humans. Cap ran so fast that he was a blur to Daredevil or something like that. Sabretooth has disappeared to Wolverine at one point and blitzed Daredevil. Wolverine has appeared as a blur to humans in running speed. He's also disappeared to bullet dodgers through technique. Daken has blitzed people of Spider-Man level of speed through technique. Batman has appeared as a blur or just frozen to humans as if he didn't move. I don't think Hulk is really being any faster than he should be when you consider his strength. He should be able to leap as a blur or But in terms of established characters, I don't see him being faster.

You can think Hulk is faster than them, fine. I won't hold it against you since I can at least respect your opinion on the Hulk. That isn't easy to do for me. It's you and theacidskull, that's it, but based on my interpretation, I don't agree.

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Wolverine008

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Awwww, God_Spawn respects Ghost's opinion!

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God_Spawn

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#34  Edited By God_Spawn  Moderator

Awwww, God_Spawn respects Ghost's opinion!

Now only if you could win my respect yourself!!

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GrenadeFlow

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Namor. Most of Cage's victories have been PIS, he shouldn't have been able to beat Proxima Midnight or Namor in the sea.

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Wolverine008

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Hyperlight

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cage will be handily defeated. colossus will last a little longer because he is close enough in strength with namor to definitely trade blows.. but due to namors higher strength level and flight he will probably win

namor ftw

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GhostRavage

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#38  Edited By GhostRavage

@god_spawn: I have my quarrels with the blurring thing too, but i think it's ok to disagree on this. Thank you for the respect.

A fun fact is all of this began by trying to put Proxima on higher level of speed in order to affect Luke's appearance against her. Totally uncorrelated to Hulk.

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God_Spawn

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#39 God_Spawn  Moderator

@ghostravage: No problem. I just wanted you to know where I came from in point and I hope I laid it out clearly enough.

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THUNDERBOLT30

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#40  Edited By THUNDERBOLT30

cage will be handily defeated. colossus will last a little longer because he is close enough in strength with namor to definitely trade blows.. but due to namors higher strength level and flight he will probably win

namor ftw

Agreed.

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MICKEY-MOUSE

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@hyperlight: No Colossus is not is not in his strength class while Namor is touching water...Rainy Weather...Namor should stomp them both...Colossus and Namor(While Dry) are both 100 toner...touching water....Namor Stomps....

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GhostRavage

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Hyperlight

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@lukehero: they are in the same strength class but i do believe that namor is stronger

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MICKEY-MOUSE

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@lukehero: they are in the same strength class but i do believe that namor is stronger

Yes, they both have the same base level strength 100toners(While Namor is Dry)...the OP states this fight happens during Rainy Weather, When Namor touches water, his levels shoot up. During rainy weather, Namor backhands Colossus.

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ChildoftheAtom

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It would be a good battle but when Namor is in water his Average of lifting feats is equal to these 2's upper end feats. Still I can see namor being surprised how hard it is to take these 2 down unscathed

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juiceboks

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#46 juiceboks  Moderator

Namor. Most of Cage's victories have been PIS, he shouldn't have been able to beat Proxima Midnight or Namor in the sea.

He didn't beat Proxima..

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green_skaar

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Namor, and how did this thread turn into a Hulk speed debate?

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Guardiandevil83

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#48  Edited By Guardiandevil83

@grenadeflow: He never beat Namor. They traded blows and then Lukes ass was seen floating in the ocean. Thing was the one to gain the victory.

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New_World_Order

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Namor is being written bad now. I mean really, Superior Spider-Man can do this?

'

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Hyperlight

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