@zill0678: using logic, we have never ever seen goku regenerate energy that quickly, otherwise he could have fought cell and beat him.
There is no logical or mathematical reason to say Goku suddenly became 100%.
So what, he turned blue again, we know you can turn blue even if you're tired. So what, he did KK, he's done it tired before, like when he has had to even though he virtually had little gas now.
But he has never gathered enough energy that quickly in the history of the Manga. Nothing eventually recent in Super.
The weakest part of your argument is ignoring the Manga, from the man whose created Super. Saying that it hasn't bee proven doesn't make it false. It's more likely it needs to be disproven unless otherwise stated.
one i haven't said goku was 100%. also, so what if he regained energy quicker than any other time in dragon ball history. super has alot of unprecedented feats like almost destroying a universe in a fight or crossing into other universes. applying logic to super is an up hill battle my friend and is best to just take what is produced on screen with a heavy dose of context
also i haven't seen you back any particular fighter. am i to assume your backing gohan for this fight if so what has you convinced? or just dont like my reasoning for why kefla wins instead of just saying like the vast majority of people that she wins. id like to know so if we happen to both back kefla i would like to see your reasoning for why she wins.
Now that I've watch the fight again, Kefla not exactly matched with SSB KK Goku, she just cheap-shotted him from behind. Goku was already tired and not at his peak, obviously not like he was against Gohan. And one shot from a tired SSB KK Goku was enough numb Kefla's arms and the second punch overpowered her directly. Goku wasn't expecting an attack from behind and you can understand from his reaction of ''what?!'' ...
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Both Kefla and Gohan are weaker than SSB KK, and they are at the same level with SSB. So it could go either way.
@erkan12: You say Goku only uses SSB when he needs to? I gues Krillin is also SSB level, and 18 who kicked his SSB kamehameha away. Or how Goku went SSB in the space poacher episode. And how about how Kale walked through a SSB kamehameha even though controled berserk Kale who was confirmed to be just as strong was losing to a tired SSG Goku? And if you think Gohan is stronger or at least as strong as SSB Goku it means you should think the same of Golden Frieza which clearly isn't the case unless Gohan has been hiding his real power.
Krillin did nothing and that example isn't even same with the ones that I used.
Frieza had to use his Golden form to match with Ultimate Gohan who was just acting, not fighting seriously of course.
I'm happy Mystic Gohan is stepping up his game, I missed that part about him. But Kefla should win here. Comparing Gohan and Goku's sparring against Goku versus Kefla, the former doesn't hold quite as much weight. I'm hoping Gohan learns a new transformation, or at least gets a higher boost during the Tournament.
Krillin did nothing and that example isn't even same with the ones that I used.
In the kamehameha struggle when Goku was blue Goku was screaming and when 18 kicked it away Goku admitted he got carried away, so that means Goku got carried away fighting Krillin (who could still be weaker than first form Frieza from the namek saga) while in SSB...
Frieza had to use his Golden form to match with Ultimate Gohan who was just acting, not fighting seriously of course.
Ya because I do think Ultaimate Gohan is above final form Frieza, at least before he goes buff. However final form Frieza is not SSG level.
imo
base Goku<=>suppressed final form Frieza<<<ssj Goku<=>100% final form Frieza<ultimate Gohan<=SSG Goku<Golden Frieza=SSB Goku
Kefla stomps. No proof Gohan is even SSG ( red ) level.
Overpowering SSB in H2H combat isn't a proof enough to be on SSG level? Lol, right.
No it isn't when the one who got overowered is Goku, who tends to not giving his best more often than not.
Is that based on your fanfiction? Because you're talking too sure and I don't think there is any official information about why Goku was holding back in his SSB form and then he even uses SSB KK to defeat Gohan.
I mean just think what you're saying. You believe Goku was holding back in SSB form but then uses SSB KK (which puts stress on his body) to finish Gohan. If he could finish him with SSB he would. Not only that, Gohan was able to clash with SSB KK power, and didn't even completely stomped. The clash between Ultimate Gohan and SSB KK Goku created a great shock wave arround the earth. It wasn't even a stomp like Jiren stomped SSB Goku or Kale.
Kefla stomps. No proof Gohan is even SSG ( red ) level.
Overpowering SSB in H2H combat isn't a proof enough to be on SSG level? Lol, right.
No it isn't when the one who got overowered is Goku, who tends to not giving his best more often than not.
Is that based on your fanfiction? Because you're talking too sure and I don't think there is any official information about why Goku was holding back in his SSB form and then he even uses SSB KK to defeat Gohan.
I mean just think what you're saying. You believe Goku was holding back in SSB form but then uses SSB KK (which puts stress on his body) to finish Gohan. If he could finish him with SSB he would. Not only that, Gohan was able to clash with SSB KK power, and didn't even completely stomped. The clash between between him and Goku created a great explosion arround the earth. It wasn't even a stomp unlike Jiren stomped Goku or Kale.
If we are gonna go with Goku not holding back against Gohan, we must also go with Goku not holding back against Krillin. Both are almost SSB equals. Are you happy with that?
If he could finish him with SSB he would
Goku aslo uses Kaio-Ken against that dude from U9 when they were fighting in Zeno Turenament. He did not have to use Kaioken, or even SSB, he used it anyway just to show off. He was trushing him around in SSJ... He went SSB, than later kaio-ken because its what he does apparently... for no reason.
Goku did not have to go SSB ( not even SSJ ) to demolish Krillin, he did go SSB anyway. Going by your logic, he had to go SSJ, than SSB... right?
Vegeta did not have to go SSB to finish off Kabba, he did it anyway.
Not only that, Gohan was able to clash with SSB KK power, and didn't even completely stomped
Krillin clashed and hold against SSB Hamehama... Fully powered should destroy him in intant. Explain that.
The clash between him and Goku created a great explosion arround the earth
Great explosions around the earth have been around since sayan saga.
Kefla stomps. No proof Gohan is even SSG ( red ) level.
Overpowering SSB in H2H combat isn't a proof enough to be on SSG level? Lol, right.
It happened in your dreams right? Because nothing like that happened in Super. Goku used SSJ2 against Gohan because he did not need more. They fought and they were equals. Goku would never use higher form if Gohan did not keep crying "fight me with your full power, fight me with your full power"... that is the only reason Goku used SSB Kaioken and nothing else. If Gohan is on SSB level then show me one just one scene when he fought an actual enemy and it indicates he is. Since the tournament began he is getting humiliated by jobbers. Like that purple guy who was beating Gohan until Frieza saved him. Frieza stomped that guy with his base form casually like he was nothing.
Kefla stomps. No proof Gohan is even SSG ( red ) level.
Overpowering SSB in H2H combat isn't a proof enough to be on SSG level? Lol, right.
It happened in your dreams right? Because nothing like that happened in Super. Goku used SSJ2 against Gohan because he did not need more. They fought and they were equals. Goku would never use higher form if Gohan did not keep crying "fight me with your full power, fight me with your full power"... that is the only reason Goku used SSB Kaioken and nothing else.
You've no idea about Gohan's personality. Gohan wouldn't stomp Goku in his SSJ2 form, because he is that kind of a guy. He asked from Goku to use his full power because he didn't want to injure his father before using his full potential.
It seems you didn't see how Gohan played him like a ragdoll when he used the SSJ2 form ?
After this scene, Goku goes directly SSB, because he had to. Then Gohan blocked his punch and punched him in the face in SSB, it means even SSB wasn't enough. Then Goku uses SSB KK to finish Gohan.
It's hilarious that some people actually believes Goku just used his full power because Gohan asked him to. Lol. Gohan asked him to because he didn't want to injure him.
If Gohan is on SSB level then show me one just one scene when he fought an actual enemy and it indicates he is. Since the tournament began he is getting humiliated by jobbers. Like that purple guy who was beating Gohan until Frieza saved him. Frieza stomped that guy with his base form casually like he was nothing.
SSB level is my ass. Stop wanking.
Lol. You think Obuni wasn't strong enough to match with a SSB tier opponents? Frieza had to use his Golden form against Gohan to keep up with him even when they were just acting to deceive Frost.
I think you're watching a different series because even Frieza said that ''purple guy'' was a trouble to him because Gohan wasn't fighting at his full power.
He is SSB level. And you've no idea what your talking about.
Kefla stomps. No proof Gohan is even SSG ( red ) level.
Overpowering SSB in H2H combat isn't a proof enough to be on SSG level? Lol, right.
It happened in your dreams right? Because nothing like that happened in Super. Goku used SSJ2 against Gohan because he did not need more. They fought and they were equals. Goku would never use higher form if Gohan did not keep crying "fight me with your full power, fight me with your full power"... that is the only reason Goku used SSB Kaioken and nothing else.
You've no idea about Gohan's personality. Gohan wouldn't stomp Goku in his SSJ2 form, because he is that kind of a guy.
That is one of the lamest excuse I heard these days.
He asked from Goku to use his full power because he didn't want to injure his father before using his full potential.
C17 did not injure Goku yet he showed enough power for Goku to use SSB against him. Gohan was not strong enough to convince Goku to use more than SSJ2. Gohan also stated he used his full power against SSJ2 Goku.
It seems you didn't see how Gohan played him like a ragdoll when he used the SSJ2 form ?
I could insert at least 10 videos like yours when SSJ2 Goku bested Gohan in this fight. You just cut out a few sec when Gohan had the upper hand. It does not mean anything.
After this scene, Goku goes directly SSB, because he had to.
Yes, he had to because Gohan kept crying for it.
Then Gohan blocked his punch and punched him in the face in SSB,
Krillin blocked his kamehameha. That means he is SSB level too. LOL
it means even SSB wasn't enough.
Yes, I know Gohan is stronger than Zeno.
Then Goku uses SSB KK to finish Gohan.
Again: Gohan cried for it.
It's hilarious that some people actually believes Goku just used his full power because Gohan asked him to. Lol. Gohan asked him to because he didn't want to injure him.
If Gohan is on SSB level then show me one just one scene when he fought an actual enemy and it indicates he is. Since the tournament began he is getting humiliated by jobbers. Like that purple guy who was beating Gohan until Frieza saved him. Frieza stomped that guy with his base form casually like he was nothing.
SSB level is my ass. Stop wanking.
Lol. You think Obuni wasn't strong enough to match with a SSB tier opponents? Frieza had to use his Golden form against Gohan to keep up with him even when they were just acting to deceive Frost.
Of course he was not SSB tier. Gohan is jut too weak. That universe was thinking about to enter the tournament with some bodybuilder on steroids because they could not find strong fighters. What your saying about Frieza does not make any sense since Gohan was the one who needed to use his full power in order to keep up with Frieza base form. Although it shows how desperate you are if you bring up an act for power scaling.
I think you're watching a different series because even Frieza said that ''purple guy'' was a trouble to him because Gohan wasn't fighting at his full power.
Funny because I think the same about you. Frieza stomped that guy effortlessly like he was nothing because he is really equal to SSB Goku unlike Gohan.
He is SSB level. And you've no idea what your talking about.
I asked you to show me just one scene where he fights with an actual enemy who is on SSB level, you did not.
You are just wanking. Gohan never showed anything to put him on SSB level. You just make things up. If I said Gohan is an irrelevant, weak character I would be closer to the truth. He only battled fodders so far and he struggled even against them. Let me guess, the namekains are SSBK level too, huh?:D
@corvin123: You must really hate Gohan or you've no idea what you're talking about. Lamest excuse? Do you even watch Dragon Ball? If you did, you should know that Gohan would never hurt his friends seriously, of course he would ask him to use his full power. It's not like Gohan is fighting against an enemy, he was fighting his father. And not only that Gohan is a polite person who won't force him to use his full power by beating him up at first. Lmao. You people actually believe Gohan was weak yet he just wanted to see his father's full power. For what purpose? What would Gohan accomplish by seeing his father's full power? He already see the SSB multiple times in the tournament against U9. I mean you need to give a proper reason why would Gohan wanted to see Goku's full power other than not hurting him.
When Gohan uses his full power there is a white Ki raises around himself and his hair style is changing. I guess you didn't know that since you're talking about Base Gohan not his Ultimate form. It's clear in his fight with Obuni and Frieza when he uses his Ultimate form.
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0:11 - This is where Gohan uses his Ultimate form, and Frieza couldn't even keep up with him without using his Golden form, even when they were just acting to deceive Frost. I hope you will not say Golden Frieza isn't SSB tier because it would just add another hilarious statement to your bag.
All I am hearing Gohan is weak Gohan is weak, and you're not even providing any solid reason why he is. You're using his Base form to lowball Gohan which is ridiculous. Goku in his base form couldn't defeat Maji Kayo is that mean Goku is weak too? When Gohan asked Goku to use his full power he ragdolled him with ease even when he was using SSJ2. And then Goku never countered him with SSJ2 afterwards, he directly goes to SSB. Why is that so hard to understand for you? I swear I am wasting my time with you here.
Krillin did nothing, and Android 18 saved him with a blind-side attack. Not sure why you guys are bringing this up, which is a ridiculous example.
We've already Toppo, Jiren and Kefla examples, where he specifically saves SSB until the end. Not even mention SSB KK, which is his strongest technique that he rarely uses.
@corvin123: You must really hate Gohan or you've no idea what you're talking about.
Why would I hate Gohan? I hate when somebody is wanking.
Lamest excuse? Do you even watch Dragon Ball? If you did, you should know that Gohan would never hurt his friends seriously, of course he would ask him to use his full power. It's not like Gohan is fighting against an enemy, he was fighting his father. And not only that Gohan is a polite person who won't force him to use his full power by beating him up at first. Lmao.
Yes, it is a lame excuse because you are saying Gohan was holding back which is not true while Goku was going all out which is simply bullshit. You are saying Gohan did not want to hurt his father but Goku, who never kills if it is not absolutely necessary and we saw him many times holding back as SSB just to test his opponent power first, suddenly decide to go with full power against Gohan and risk to kill his own son just because. You are totally contradict yourself and fail logically. Also you are probably thinking that Goku is an amateur idiot who cannot sense energy and even if he can he cannot measure it. Otherwise there is no explanation why Goku chose ssj2 after Gohan powered up and said something like "This is my full power". You also cannot explain why Gohan said that if he was SSB level all along which is a billion times stronger form.
You people actually believe Gohan was weak yet he just wanted to see his father's full power. For what purpose? What would Gohan accomplish by seeing his father's full power? He already see the SSB multiple times in the tournament against U9. I mean you need to give a proper reason why would Gohan wanted to see Goku's full power other than not hurting him.
Because he is a cocky saiyan. Also he wanted to measure the difference in power between them. It is not the same seeing SSB and standing against it, just like Krillin said earlier.
When Gohan uses his full power there is a white Ki raises around himself and his hair style is changing. I guess you didn't know that since you're talking about Base Gohan not his Ultimate form. It's clear in his fight with Obuni and Frieza when he uses his Ultimate form.
You are trying to avoid what I said and you just answer something else. I said Gohan was the first in this "fight" who needed to use his full power, I never said Ultimate Gohan is weaker than Frieza's base form. Besides, Goku in base form stomped Frieza's base form in an actual fight while they are totally equals SSB vs Golden as it was showed before the tournament. That is how big boost the Golden form is. Gohan ultimate form only overcome on Frieza base form which was not really impressive either. He pushed Frieza back yes, however, after he punched him in the face Frieza was laughing. He admitted Gohan is stronger vs his base form but the difference was not much. However, all of this does not matter because it was nothing more than an act, so stop using it as source of actual feets. It is awfully ridiculous.
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0:11 - This is where Gohan uses his Ultimate form, and Frieza couldn't even keep up with him without using his Golden form, even when they were just acting to deceive Frost. I hope you will not say Golden Frieza isn't SSB tier because it would just add another hilarious statement to your bag.
All I am hearing Gohan is weak Gohan is weak, and you're not even providing any solid reason why he is.
I am not the one who needs to prove anything. You are the one who says Gohan is on SSB level while you cannot provide anything which proves it. You just keep embarrassing yourself by using feats from an act and a training session. If someone says the yeti is real then he is the one who needs to prove it and not everyone else has to prove it is not real. You have not provide any vaild feat which shows he is even close SSB, not to mention you stated that Gohan is stronger than SSB. I can say I am the strongest man in the world if I never prove it no one cares. What we have seen so far that Gohan is struggling against jobbers. This is a fact. What you are saying about him being SSB and above is just blabla from your fantasy.
You're using his Base form to lowball Gohan which is ridiculous. Goku in his base form couldn't defeat Maji Kayo is that mean Goku is weak too? When Gohan asked Goku to use his full power he ragdolled him with ease even when he was using SSJ2.
Another senseless wanking.
And then Goku never countered him with SSJ2 afterwards, he directly goes to SSB. Why is that so hard to understand for you? I swear I am wasting my time with you here.
The feeling is mutual. Your whole argument about Gohan being on SSB level falls apart with every sentence you write.
Krillin did nothing, and Android 18 saved him with a blind-side attack. Not sure why you guys are bringing this up, which is a ridiculous example.
Krillin hold Goku's kamehameha for a while. Maybe if you hear it so many time there is a reason of it. People just kindly try to show you how badly you fail when you are wanking Gohan because of a training session.
We've already Toppo, Jiren and Kefla examples, where he specifically saves SSB until the end. Not even mention SSB KK, which is his strongest technique that he rarely uses.
Like he did against Bergamo, the ultimate threat. Oh wait, he used it because Zeno asked him to use his full power (though it was not needed), just like Gohan did.
When Gohan shows that kind of power in an actual fight which puts him on SSB level I will be okay with that. Until then: stop wanking!
@corvin123: Can you explain to me why Goku used SSB KK instead of SSB to finish Gohan? A simple question.
And why their final clash was epic and trembled the earth? According to you Goku is on another level than Gohan and he should fodderize him at his full power. Another simple question.
Kefla, but as a Gohan fan, I'm just glad to see some legitimate arguments being made in his favor. Gohan fans are finally coming out of the dark ages of the green track suit era.
@godemperor123: Never said that. Never even implied that. What I did, however, note that it was good to see Gohan being recognized as a legitimate powerhouse again, so much so, that people were making a good arguments about him facing off against a fused character. I was just sick of my favorite character being the butt of jokes by the Dragon ball fanbase because he decided to settle down, become a productive member of society, and be a stable father and husband to his family. Not only that, but I've written and argued post why Gohan is one of the best developed characters in all of Dragon Ball, and how even though fans might not like it, the journey he took in life was a natural progression for him as a character.
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