Mystic Gohan(DBS) vs Base Black Goku

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omriamar

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Nefarious

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#2  Edited By Nefarious

Black stomps. Gohan is still not on his level.

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Thedarkpaladin

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#3  Edited By Thedarkpaladin

If it's just base Black, then I could see Gohan winning.

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decaf_wizard

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#4  Edited By decaf_wizard

@thedarkpaladin said:

If it's just base Black, then I could see Gohan winning.

Base Goku held his own pretty well against Mystic Gohan. I say it would be an even split if we approximate those two as being on a similar level of power.

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Skrskr

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Gohan puts up a good fight until black improves enough to oneshot him.

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Gaoron

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Black wins especially with his improvement ability.

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Thedarkpaladin

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@decaf_wizard:

Gohan wasn't at full power when Base Goku fought him, iirc.

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decaf_wizard

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#8  Edited By decaf_wizard

@decaf_wizard:

Gohan wasn't at full power when Base Goku fought him, iirc.

Didn't he say that he was at his current max right before they fought?

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IceDemonKing

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I might give it to black

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Thedarkpaladin

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@decaf_wizard:

He powered up again when Goku transformed into SSJ2, then later held his own against SSJB Goku for a brief moment.

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decaf_wizard

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@decaf_wizard:

He powered up again when Goku transformed into SSJ2, then later held his own against SSJB Goku for a brief moment.

I think they keyword there is brief.

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Thedarkpaladin

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@decaf_wizard:

He still had the upper hand until Goku used Kaio-Ken, which should easily put him above base Black.

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Jack_Hart

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Gohan didn't use his Ultimate form when he fought Base Goku, as indicated by the bang's absence.

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Raziel2014

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#14  Edited By Raziel2014

ultimate gohan could hold his own against SSJB so its obvious he is superior to base black, common sense people as goku only needed SSJ1/SSj2 to fight him back when he came to the current timeline.

and Ultimate > SSj3

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mrx1122

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DesolatorStorm

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lets make everything clear right here

first of all piccolo stated that gohan has finally regain his Buu arc Powers, meaning everything gohan did before this was half ass and basically the same as he was after the 7 year time skip from cell to buu.

2nd= Gohan SSJ1 was able to fight Goku SSj1 just a few episodes ago, this means that Goku ssj1 is the same PL as he was during Majin Buu Arc, meaning his Base form has not changed since Beerus told him he is weaker than Frieza in Base form, as for why goku sometimes seems powerfull enough to fight SSJ3 tier enemies in base form, lets just say he used God QI in base form, but that form only happen 2 and never again, the only real thing that has change is the transformations, it means Goku ssj1 and SSj2 is the same as he always was as proven by his fights against trunks, gohan and many others and using your brain to analyze is makes this proof.

3rd= Gohan only used his Full power when Goku Finally went SSJB, even when he was fighting in SSj2 form gohan did not utilized his full power as he says here is my full power and his aura increased after goku went SSJB, as to why ultimate gohan lost in seconds to beerus back in the movie lets just say gohan might have had power but like piccolo says his fighting instics were lost so he was no diffferent than a child with a sword against a professional fighter.

4th= Goku did not fight Gohan in his Ultimate form while being in base thats stupid as he could not even win even after x100 multiplier from SSj2.

5th= Ultimate form seems to be in the middle of SSJ3 and SSJB as everyone already predicted years ago after gohan trashed Super Buu.

6= as for piccolo and where he stands, he should be as strong as Super perfect Cell after his last defeat in the hands of frost, back when he lost against frost he was only Cell Tier/SSj1 now he is SSj2 tier.

so its obvious Ultimate gohan is superior to base black Goku as even SSj1/SSj2 goku could fight against him.

I concur with most of your points, and agree with your conclusion, but I'm in the camp that thinks that Buu arc Ultimate Gohan isn't naturally at the level to do anything to SSJB Goku, but Gohan improved. Piccolo did say he was going to continue to train Gohan to take him further, it might be related to that. Remember, ultimately, Buu overwhelmed Gohan by absorbing SSJ3 Gotenk, which is roughly, for him, a 2x boost. In the context of Super, that wouldn't be enough to do jack to SSJB. My guess is that Piccolo continued to further draw out Gohan's potential while Old Kai only started or something like that.

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bonzo_310

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Base black laughed off an assault of ssb vegeta, gohan was getting beat by ss2 goku and the only reason goku went blue was because gohan kept telling him to go full power otherwise ss2 or ss3 would've been enough for gohan.

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Raziel2014

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#18  Edited By Raziel2014

@bonzo_310 said:

Base black laughed off an assault of ssb vegeta, gohan was getting beat by ss2 goku and the only reason goku went blue was because gohan kept telling him to go full power otherwise ss2 or ss3 would've been enough for gohan.

have you really seen the fight? gohan kept telling him to go full power because he also wanted to go full, after goku went SSJB gohan increase his power even further meaning he was not at full when fighting SSj2 and its obvious since SSJ3 aint ultimate gohan match, also the fact that Vegeta smiled meaning gohan has achieve power that surpasses SSj2, SSj3 if not vegeta would not even care, the only thing gohan is missing is more fighting experience as piccolo said he needs to get back in the game, he has power but power is one thing fighting is another, and its obvious because before this gohan and goku both fought at SSj1 and they were about the same, so gohan SSj2 and Goku SSj2 are roughly equivalent.

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Beast_mode999

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Current Goku is stronger than black ever was at this moment and Gohan was able to control the fight when Goku was Super Saiyan 2.

Gohan wins.

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Wewlad80

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Gohan Beats any Goku, The Only Reason Gohan "lost" to Kaioken God is because he didnt want to make his father feel bad.

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Beast_mode999

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@raziel2014 said:

lets make everything clear right here

first of all piccolo stated that gohan has finally regain his Buu arc Powers, meaning everything gohan did before this was half ass and basically the same as he was after the 7 year time skip from cell to buu.

2nd= Gohan SSJ1 was able to fight Goku SSj1 just a few episodes ago, this means that Goku ssj1 is the same PL as he was during Majin Buu Arc, meaning his Base form has not changed since Beerus told him he is weaker than Frieza in Base form, as for why goku sometimes seems powerfull enough to fight SSJ3 tier enemies in base form, lets just say he used God QI in base form, but that form only happen 2 and never again, the only real thing that has change is the transformations, it means Goku ssj1 and SSj2 is the same as he always was as proven by his fights against trunks, gohan and many others and using your brain to analyze is makes this proof.

You're leaving out a lot of details here.

1. The first fight was a sparing match not to be taken seriously.

2. Goku stated WHILE HE WAS FIGHTING GOHAN IN BASE that Gohan was as strong as he was before he lost his power.

3. Trunks also received training from the Kais and powered up even further when Goku made a comment.

3rd= Gohan only used his Full power when Goku Finally went SSJB, even when he was fighting in SSj2 form gohan did not utilized his full power as he says here is my full power and his aura increased after goku went SSJB, as to why ultimate gohan lost in seconds to beerus back in the movie lets just say gohan might have had power but like piccolo says his fighting instics were lost so he was no diffferent than a child with a sword against a professional fighter.

Agreed he did not use his base however according to Goku Gohan was as strong as he was when fighting buu in base.

4th= Goku did not fight Gohan in his Ultimate form while being in base thats stupid as he could not even win even after x100 multiplier from SSj2.

Once again Goku stated Gohan was as strong as he was in the Buu saga while fighing him in base.

5th= Ultimate form seems to be in the middle of SSJ3 and SSJB as everyone already predicted years ago after gohan trashed Super Buu.

6= as for piccolo and where he stands, he should be as strong as Super perfect Cell after his last defeat in the hands of frost, back when he lost against frost he was only Cell Tier/SSj1 now he is SSj2 tier.

so its obvious Ultimate gohan is superior to base black Goku as even SSj1/SSj2 goku could fight against him.

Loading Video...

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bonzo_310

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@raziel2014: yes i've seen the fight four times and gohan was losing to ss2 for most of it. Again the only reason goku went full power was because gohan kept telling him to, even in blue gohan would've lost easy but he wanted gokus maximum power and then proceeded to get one shot. Black on the other hand acted like ssb vegetas assault on him was nothing which would have knocked out gohan.

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Thedarkpaladin

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#23  Edited By Thedarkpaladin

@bonzo_310: Gohan wasn't losing to SSJ2 for most of the fight. Goku blocked his line of vision and knocked Gohan to the ground, then he landed a few more attacks. Afterwards, Gohan had a clear upper hand until Goku used Kaio-Ken.

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Jack_Hart

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@bonzo_310: Goku appeared to do great against SSJ2 Gohan because he kept him off-balance with his Instant Transmission spam and distraction with the ki blasts, but he never really hurt Gohan. In contrast, Gohan made Goku retch with body blows and ended the fight by tossing away after spinning him around a few times. And Gohan wasn't even taking the fight that seriously.

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bonzo_310

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@thedarkpaladin: https://youtu.be/CNapaRdeaIQ

Watch this fight once, then again, then again. It's not until the two minutes in does he actually get a hit in and he still is getting beat after, then when they lock hands and tells him to go max power and he goes ssb gohan still tells him to go max power and gets one shot by ssb kk

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jasonhitto

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Gohan wreck now

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MainJP

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@wewlad80 said:

Gohan Beats any Goku, The Only Reason Gohan "lost" to Kaioken God is because he didnt want to make his father feel bad.

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Thedarkpaladin

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@bonzo_310:

I just watched the fight, mate. Goku gets a few hits in at the beginning, but tells Gohan to unleash more power, which he proceeds to do immediately afterwards when he starts whaling on Goku. It was also implied that Gohan wasn't even using his full strength until Goku transformed into SSJB.

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nilok

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@bonzo_310:

It wasn't that Goku just went SSBB then Kaioken SSB, Goku went SSB and traded a few blows with Ultimate Gohan, which actually looked fairly even, with Gohan uppercutting SSB Goku away and demanding that he fight him a full power.

It actually looks like Ultimate Gohan is at least relatively close to SSB, at least comparing the physical aspect. I am curious if we will see more of Gohan's "Soul Punisher", as that seems to be a fairly unique technique that Gohan developed.

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bonzo_310

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@thedarkpaladin: i don't know how you can sit there watch a fight where goku is dominating gohan for more than half the fight and just because gohan lands a few hits say that gohan was stronger than ss2 goku even when gohan doesn't land a single hit until half way into the fight.

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Thedarkpaladin

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@bonzo_310:

Mainly because Goku wasn't dominating for half the fight... He resorted to blocking Gohan's vision just to land a hit at first, and the rest of his attacks weren't so much as fazing him. After Gohan released more energy, he clearly had the upper hand on SSJ2:

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So, can you please explain why the majority of SSJ2 Goku's punches seemingly had no effect on Gohan, yet when the latter landed hits, Goku was very obviously in a state of pain judging by the expression on his face. Keep in mind, Gohan using his full power during the beginning of their brawl.

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bonzo_310

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@nilok: 4 punches were thrown by them when goku went ssb, 2 for gohan and 2 for goku with gohan blocking one of them. You can't honestly tell me that mystic gohan is relativistic to ssb goku because of 4 punches.

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bonzo_310

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@thedarkpaladin: how can you say goku kicking gohans ass for more than half the fight where gohan doesn't land a single punch until half way through the match, and then they are almost even throughout the rest of itand say goku wasn' dominating. The reason why gokus attacks were'nt doing as much damage as they could have done to gohan is because goku was holding back. Gohan tells him after he finally lands a hit to get serious implying that goku wasn't trying to hurt gohan like when they were in the time chamber. it's only when gohan tells him to go at full strength that goku is trying to hurt gohan again like in the time chamber. If goku really wanted to beat gohan he could've done it in ss2 or 3, blue and KK is overkill. This means that for over half of this fight gohan was still losing to a suppressed goku while gohan was actually trying to hurt him.

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Thedarkpaladin

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@bonzo_310:

how can you say goku kicking gohans ass for more than half the fight where gohan doesn't land a single punch until half way through the match, and then they are almost even throughout the rest of itand say goku wasn' dominating.

We're discussing SSJ2 Goku Vs. Gohan here. I've already addressed that Goku landed a few good sneak attacks, but they had no lasting effect on Gohan, whereas Gohan's punches clearly put Goku in a state of pain and discomfort.

The reason why gokus attacks were'nt doing as much damage as they could have done to gohan is because goku was holding back.

He was holding back his full power, in other words, the SSJB transformation along with Kaio-Ken. There's absolutely no evidence to suggest he was taking it easy as an SSJ2, though, and the fact that Gohan himself was holding back considerably only supports the argument that Gohan is well above SSJ2 Goku.

Gohan tells him after he finally lands a hit to get serious implying that goku wasn't trying to hurt gohan like when they were in the time chamber. it's only when gohan tells him to go at full strength that goku is trying to hurt gohan again like in the time chamber.

That can be interpreted as Gohan telling Goku to use SSJB. Especially since he told Goku to use his full strength immediately afterwards. It doesn't mean Goku wasn't trying as an SSJ2.

If goku really wanted to beat gohan he could've done it in ss2 or 3, blue and KK is overkill. This means that for over half of this fight gohan was still losing to a suppressed goku while gohan was actually trying to hurt him.

Nothing but an unsubstantiated claim on your part, tbh. Gohan at full power was holding his own against Blue Goku--even had a slight advantage from what I could tell. The fact of the matter is, we know Gohan wasn't fighting SSJ2 Goku using his full power. What we don't know is whether or not Goku was taking it easy in his SSJ2 form.

By on-panel feats, Gohan is blatantly superior to SSJ2 Goku.

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nilok

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#35  Edited By nilok

@bonzo_310:If Gohan wasn't relative in power, he would have been sent flying by those attacks. If Gohan wasn't relative in power, he wouldn't have been able to block one of those attacks.

The first attack, Goku tanked it and pushed Gohan back with the his attack. Gohan resolved himself and blocked a SSB punch and countered with an uppercut that sent Goku up and away.

So yes, with this, even small piece of information, physically, we can say they are relative until Goku used Kaioken X10.

The real thing that still sets Gohan apart from his father is Goku is a much better fighter, from keeping is opponent off guard and combining his attacks in surprising ways. Gohan on the other hand is a straight up brawler, which fits with his hero persona. Goku can keep Gohan off guard, even when weaker than him, but when fists clash, Gohan can hold his own.

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bonzo_310

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@nilok: at that point you're saying krillen is relative to ssb goku because he pushed back his kamehameha in a beam struggle which should've been sent flying on contact which i seriously doubt.

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SuperDragonfly9

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I say Gohan has the firepower and skill to take down Black. Base Black is still on the level of SSJ3 Goku (Kid Buu Fight) or a little higher. If that's the case even Mystic Z Gohan should be able to beat him with difficulty, DBS Mystic Gohan is just overkill. Base Black was never able to match SSJ Blue Goku and that version of Goku is weaker than DBS Mystic Gohan without Kaio Ken amp.

I think Hit vs Mystic DBS Gohan would be a good fight.

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bonzo_310

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#38  Edited By bonzo_310

@thedarkpaladin: you haven't adressed anything you just keep saying goku sneaked attacked him but fail to see that goku landed the first strike and was was for the majority of the fight beating gohan while gohan was on the defensive for the most part. https://youtu.be/CNapaRdeaIQ

From 2:04 to 2:14 goku was visibly just beating the crap out of gohan until he finally half way through the fight lands his first hit you can't say that was a sneak attack

Gohan tells him to take the fight seriously, then he tells him to use his full strength, those are two very different statements which means goku wasn't being serious while in ss2 according to gohan.

It's only unsubstantiated claim for you because for some reason you don't see ss2 goku beating mystic gohan while not being serious, again according to gohan.

I keep repeating myself but for more than half the fight goku was beating or putting gohan on the defensive in ss2 while not being serious.

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nilok

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@nilok: at that point you're saying krillen is relative to ssb goku because he pushed back his kamehameha in a beam struggle which should've been sent flying on contact which i seriously doubt.

And now you are just making a straw man. Krillin did nothing that pushed Goku back, as Goku was testing Krillin as Goku's blast overpowered Krillin's. Gohan on the other hand kept demanding and forcing Goku to fight at full power, and even forced Goku back a number of times from before Goku finally relented and used Kaioken x10.

Now, do you have anything to say about my breakdown of the events of the video you posted?

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Thedarkpaladin

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@bonzo_310:

you haven't adressed anything you just keep saying goku sneaked attacked him but fail to see that goku landed the first strike and was was for the majority of the fight beating gohan while gohan was on the defensive for the most part. https://youtu.be/CNapaRdeaIQ

Except I have. I outright acknowledged that Goku landed a few blows at the beginning of the fight, none of which appeared to do much damage to Gohan, but you're ignoring the fact that Goku went out of his way to catch Gohan off guard - by blocking his line of sight before attacking.

From 2:04 to 2:14 goku was visibly just beating the crap out of gohan until he finally half way through the fight lands his first hit you can't say that was a sneak attack

If your idea of beating the crap out of someone is to land a few weak jabs--Gohan did block a few--to the face while they're on the defensive. It can also be argued that the only reason Gohan was on the defensive in the first place is because Goku did catch him off guard with an Instant Transmission during their beam struggle. Once Gohan proceeded to counter, Goku was getting absolutely manhandled in a straight up confrontation.

Gohan tells him to take the fight seriously, then he tells him to use his full strength, those are two very different statements which means goku wasn't being serious while in ss2 according to gohan.

The two aren't mutually exclusive. "Get serious" can very well translate to "use your full power". It would actually make much more sense in this context, considering Gohan literally made the second statement moments after. Why would he tell Goku to get serious in his SSJ2 form, then before even giving him time to do this, ask Goku to use a different form? It makes absolutely no sense from a logical standpoint.

It's only unsubstantiated claim for you because for some reason you don't see ss2 goku beating mystic gohan while not being serious, again according to gohan.

It's unsubstantiated, because you have no concrete evidence to support it. A vague "get serious" claim is open for interpretation.

I keep repeating myself but for more than half the fight goku was beating or putting gohan on the defensive in ss2 while not being serious.

That's all you've been doing, tbh, but in actuality, Goku really only landed a few blows at the beginning--a few of them sneak attacks. When Gohan decided to unleashed more power, he proceeded to gain an advantage, and maintained it until Goku decided to use Kaio-Ken on top of SSJB.

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bonzo_310

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#41  Edited By bonzo_310

@thedarkpaladin: goku didn't go out of his way to catch gohan off guard gohan initiated the ki blast barrage by firing his own even if it was a sneak attack he was still kicking his ass through most of this fight.

I don't think you know what a jab is. Play it frame by frame and you will see none of those were jabs and gohan visibly has the wtf is going on expression until he finally managed to block the last one.

No they are not. being serious and using your full strength are completely different why do you think goku was surprised when gohan told him to get serious? Goku was serious when he fought majin vegeta but didn't go full power, mystic gohan was serious when he fought buu but didn't use full power. Goku here wasn't serious at ss2 so gohan told him to get serious and THEN he told him use full strength.

Think this logically. Goku was even with gohan,i'll even give you that gohan was slightly stronger and goku was serious, if he went to ss3 he would've gotten a 4x multiplier from his ss2 easily putting him above a gohan that was a little stronger than ss2 goku.

And that is all you've been saying. Sneak attack, only landed a couple of hits and gohan was holding back. If you saw the fight goku had the upper hand for most of it, and goku used tactics that he learned from majin buu to his advantage and he landed more than a couple of hits, in fact goku landed 13 while gohan landed 9 not counting the ssbkk, again gohan was on the defensive and getting beat most of the fight. Why would gohan hold back against the man he is trying to beat, the guy who he wants to surpass? Why is gohan even fighting while he is supressed when he knows full well what goku can do to him? It makes more sense for goku who has supressed himself while he fought gohan in the time chamber before to limit himself again here in ss2 than for gohan who is actively trying to beat the giant wall that is goku to supress himself for no reason.

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Thedarkpaladin

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#42  Edited By Thedarkpaladin

@bonzo_310:

goku didn't go out of his way to catch gohan off guard gohan initiated the ki blast barrage by firing his own even if it was a sneak attack he was still kicking his ass through most of this fight.

Demonstrably false. Tien even took notice that Goku blocked Gohan's line of vision before proceeding to attack:

No Caption Provided

You keep saying Goku was kicking his ass for most of the fight, but all you've managed to show so far is a few sneak attacks and light punches that weren't even fazing Gohan. Once Gohan countered Goku's little sneak attack, he proceeded to knock the living crap out of him. A single blow to the gut put Goku in tremendous pain, as you can infer by the expression on his face:

No Caption Provided

I don't think you know what a jab is. Play it frame by frame and you will see none of those were jabs and gohan visibly has the wtf is going on expression until he finally managed to block the last one.

...No he didn't. Maybe you need to rewatch the fight carefully this time, because none of Goku's punches were doing noticeable damage to Gohan. Certainly not to the extent of the single gut punch I posted above where Goku looks like he's about to pass out from the pain.

No they are not. being serious and using your full strength are completely different why do you think goku was surprised when gohan told him to get serious? Goku was serious when he fought majin vegeta but didn't go full power, mystic gohan was serious when he fought buu but didn't use full power. Goku here wasn't serious at ss2 so gohan told him to get serious and THEN he told him use full strength.

Nonsense. They both correlate with each other perfectly. The fact that you don't know this is kind of astounding. Just look at Freeza's fight with Goku for example: Freeza was trying to kill him since the very beginning, but he made it perfectly clear that he wasn't fighting seriously until powering up--his own words, as well as the narration back this up:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Getting serious in that context meant powering up, and you've not a shred of substantial proof to say it's any different in this case. Hell, Goku even fired off a Kamehameha right at Gohan prior to that statement being made. By what logic would Goku fire one of his most powerful attacks if he's not trying to hurt his opponent?

Think this logically. Goku was even with gohan,i'll even give you that gohan was slightly stronger and goku was serious, if he went to ss3 he would've gotten a 4x multiplier from his ss2 easily putting him above a gohan that was a little stronger than ss2 goku.

Logically speaking, you don't know how much power Gohan was holding back until Goku used Kaio-Ken. Even if you take the SSJ multipliers seriously--god knows the creators of the show don't--there's still a lack of hard evidence to say SSJ3 would be above Gohan at his full power. Quite the contrary, actually, since Gohan was shown to be keeping pace with SSJB Goku just fine, which forced him to used Kaio-Ken (note that Gohan never actually told Goku to power up after he transformed into SSJB).

And that is all you've been saying. Sneak attack, only landed a couple of hits and gohan was holding back. If you saw the fight goku had the upper hand for most of it, and goku used tactics that he learned from majin buu to his advantage and he landed more than a couple of hits, in fact goku landed 13 while gohan landed 9 not counting the ssbkk, again gohan was on the defensive and getting beat most of the fight. Why would gohan hold back against the man he is trying to beat, the guy who he wants to surpass? Why is gohan even fighting while he is supressed when he knows full well what goku can do to him? It makes more sense for goku who has supressed himself while he fought gohan in the time chamber before to limit himself again here in ss2 than for gohan who is actively trying to beat the giant wall that is goku to supress himself for no reason.

Except what I'm saying is supported by empirical evidence and statements from the show. Any objective mind would come to that conclusion on their own just by watching the fight. Sure, he was using tactics, but I never once argued the contrary. Goku is a better tactician than Gohan--that much is painfully obvious. However, it doesn't negate the fact that he did take Gohan by surprise a couple of times by blocking his line of sight and using Instant Transmission in the middle of their beam struggle. The amount of punches each combatant lands on one another doesn't necessarily determine who has the upper hand in a fight...lol. Especially when one is taking virtually no damage, while the other looks like he's on the verge of fainting after being hit once... If I get into a fight and take a barrage of blows to the face and come out unscathed, then counter by landing one or two heavy hits on my opponent - dealing noticeable damage, I would obviously have the upper hand in that scenario. Going by what we were shown, it would make more sense for Gohan to have been holding back significantly during the beginning of the fight, since he was not only ragdolling SSJ2 Goku towards the end, but also forced him to power up even further after he began to utilize God Ki. On-panel evidence, along with concise statements from Gohan himself confirm this. The only argument you have to say Goku wasn't trying to hurt Gohan is a single "get serious" statement, which can be interpreted differently than how you're trying to pass it off. That's weak evidence, mate.

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DesolatorStorm

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@bonzo_310:

Whenever Goku and Gohan were clashing directly, they were trading pretty evenly. At the start, Goku lands the first punch, and then they both make many blows against each other and were clearly being portrayed as even, as evident by them both striking each other's fist, and it canceling out, and neither overcame the other.

It's at this point where Goku uses trickery to gain the upper hand and land more blows, which can't be argued against. After this method stops, Goku has an assault, which Gohan eventually counters. Following this, Gohan lands several good hits, and then they have a giant slug fest, where they're clearly equal. Not sure how you interpreted this as "Gohan loosing most of the fight." Power wise, they were dead even (and of course, it's implied Gohan went further considering his ability to do anything to SSB Goku).

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Beast_mode999

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I have no idea why people are saying Black would win when Gohan was fighting evenly with Ssj 2 Goku

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Paytience

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#45  Edited By Paytience

@bonzo_310: Mystic Gohan=SSB and that was pretty much always the intent. You guys are making too much of the SSJ levels which Beerus and Whis basically made irrelevant. The Sayans have been working towards a stable transformation since the cell games, and jin2 is the perfect balance of power and control. Beerus and Whis said directly that they have enough power (@jin1) they just need control. Jin2 Goku would own jin 3 because of the dimishing returns...you can generate more fighting energy, but it burns through all your ki to do it. If Goku had of tried to fight Gohan at 3, he would have LOST. Same way he would have lost against Majin Vegeta.

SSB is the equvalent.

Mystic Gohan should be equal to SSR, and a better fighter to boot. Or are we forgetting that Vegeta absolutely steamed him? Yes, I feel Veg is NATURALLY stronger than Goku, but he isn't and has NEVER been naturally stronger than Gohan, and current Goku is better than the version that fought Black.

It isn't a power issue, it is a fighting ability issue. Goku's Ki control, energy generation, and overall Martial Arts and ki mastery is better than Gohans.

Those saying Goku was "winning" because of the beginning of the fight are being a little blind, intentionally. Goky landed hits on Gohan because he is really just the better fighter. Those hits had really no effect on Gohan.

What the finish tells us is that Goku is both strong enough to drop Gohan using KK, and that he was the one who was ABLE TO LAND the punch. Had Gohan landed, I bet Goku would be just as out.

Also, that was Goku and Gohan willfully committing everything to one strike. Had Gohan not chosen to do that, he very well could have drawn out the fight until the KK started tearing Goku up. He KNOWS how it works. He has seen Goku use it against Vegeta, Frieza and Hit.

That however, would have defeated the purpose of the match, which was to test the limits of Gohan's POWER. That is why he wanted Goku at full max.

That power is impressive...impressive enough that SSB is needed by the best martial artist in arguably the multiverse to match him, but not so strong that he cannot be one shotted by Goku putting all of 10x his normal power into a hit.

...

But nobody so far in DB is that strong, barring gods and angels. There are those who can fight them, but if they do what Gohan did, they would lose.

I take Gohan against Black. Black's whole thing was using the Sayains ability to improve against them, but Gohan's body is at a point that I just don't think Black would be able to move beyond easily.

It's the body of a sayan elite/human hybrid vs the body Goku, which makes a difference, especily when Zamasu, the guy in the body, isn't as good a fighter or as in tune with the body (on a cellular level). Vegeta has already shown this.

Vote:Gohan. This is Vegeta on steroids. He is beyond a point that Black's own abilities allow him to progress beyond. He can get there, but he cannot keep up with the rate that Gohan can. He cannot use Goku's body like Goku can.

Mystic Gohan 7/10.

Note: There was an interview which confirmed that Sayans get a rage amp. Toriyama explained that was the reason Trunks was able to do what he did. Based on that, Mystic Gohan still>Future Trunks. I'll look it up.

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Green_Tea

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I really don't like the Black guy-- he's too dangerous.

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oblivion360

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Gohan

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omriamar

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Bump

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AlexTheBoss

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I have no idea why people are saying Black would win when Gohan was fighting evenly with Ssj 2 Goku

Because Black also fought evenly with ssj2 Goku? He did worse than Gohan, but he got stronger after that.

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Dragonvegeta123

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@paytience: ok wtf no future trunks>>gohan he's still stronger and it's obvious