Just in case I can't post this to Gen Discussion
Dragon Ball disrespect thread, the true tier of Dragon Ball
Hello guys, today I will be exposing the true tier of this verse.
Warning: May be disturbing to some people
Disclaimer: This is mostly for DBZ manga, DBZ kai and DBS anime
Dragon ball cosmology debunk
Many individuals believe dragon ball cosmology is some large multiverse with each universe being greater in size than a normal universe and having separate space-time continuums.
That is completely false however, firstly the macrocosm map is not supposed to be used to scale. Look at its map. The map is inconsistent in size and is obviously not the true size of the universe
We see king kai planet being bigger than supreme kai planet which is obviously not true
We see mountains in hell bigger than supreme kai planet which is also not true
We see snakeway in length is halfway the entire macrocosm, which is also not true
We see king yemma palace bigger than supreme kai planet and about 10% of the length of the macrocosm, which is also not true
We see heaven and grand kaio planet comparison, which is wrong since we see them actually compared to each other and it's nowhere near the same as the macrocosm implies
Everything contradicts the macrocosm used to scale.
In fact we see the actual universe 6 and 7 when super shenron is summoned and it's nowhere near the same as the macrocosm. The actual universes look like what I just showed, backed several times in DBS
The “macrocosm” is some regular universe, nothing else.
Many argue that “heaven is the size of the universe” due to a statement in toeiverse, which is completely false.
Not only is toei verse none canon to DBS, DBZ kai and DBZ manga, but if we are using toeiverse let's also use how a small planet is visible from heaven which completely contradicts heaven being universal sized.
Many argue that the DB universe 7 has separate space-time because of 2 things
Narrator says goku and the others were separated by space-time
Supreme kai calls mortal world the “temporal world”
Firstly those two statements are not canon. They are from toeiverse aka not canon to dbz kai or dbz manga, and definitely not canon to dbs.
There’s also the fact that all the 12 universes exist inside a single timeline, they cannot be separated space-time continuums
This is proven several times when they talk about timelines, they mention “space-time”
When Goku black went to the main timeline, he called it a path in space-time. When beerus killed zamasu, he said “there is no way a god killing another god won’t have an affect on space-time” which is referring to affect on timelines.
It’s made clear only the timelines are separate space-time continuums, not a single “macrocosm”. Whis even says “a time in your world” when talking about timelines
And when they talk about the past, present and future it's made clear that all the 12 universes exist in the same past present and future
All this further supports there is no separate space-time continuum in canon.
We even see sidra and Quitela talking to each other in the same time and talking about stuff that will happen in the future(attacking frieza)
Whis even says "this space" has 12 universes which implies the 12 universes exist inside a single space and time.
All of this proves there is no complexity for the DB cosmology and there is nothing special about it at all.
Universal dragon ball debunk
Many believe Dragon ball is currently at the universal level mostly due to the infamous fist clash. Firstly there are 2 things people ignore from the fist clash.
And it’s the fact that both Goku and Beerus were stated to have been completely destroyed by the destruction of the universe as well as the shockwaves getting stronger the further they traveled.
This pretty much makes it clear that They can’t survive the universe being destroyed because it’s not done by their own power
“But old kai is lying and it’s just a perspective thing”
Completely false, it is NEVER stated to be a perspective thing, the only thing that goku states is that he was trying to nullify the technique and that’s it. Nowhere does it imply that because goku was doing that it was somehow making old kai think and lie about it. Old kai statement still stands.
“But the narrator”
The narrator also says Beerus went full power
Narrator says things for the moment but the narrator is unreliable. Narrator stated beerus got tired from goku’s fight which is obviously not true.
Narrator is meant to hype up and only says things for the moment. The narrator in context is talking about how their previous punching were creating shockwaves which can destroy the universe, it does not mean their own power.
“But whis”
Whis is talking about the shockwaves themselves, they have enough power to destroy the entire universe. Not only that, but Whis said he couldn’t stop the power that can end the universe which further proves the shockwaves got far stronger than both goku and beerus and even Whis who drastically upscales above them
I know what some might say “but Whis was being persuaded”
While that is correct, he wasn’t being persuaded on stopping the shockwaves, he wasbeing persuaded on stopping the fight itself aka the point of impact that is far weaker than the shockwaves
“But beerus nullified the super dense energy beam”
Yes, that i true however the same super dense energy beam was also producing the shockwaves which old kai stated get much stronger than point of impact
And beerus only nullified the point of impact which is far weaker than the shockwaves themselves
Beerus being capable of destroying universe would completely contradict whis and old kai statements, which definitely hold truth
He only nullified the point of impact, which is not impressive.
“But Beerus is stated that he can destroy the universe”
And? No timeframe=no feat
That is as legit as universal frieza, universal Cell, and universal buu which is not true at all, there is no timeframe.
Statements of someone who can wipe out the universe is common and has been a thing since namek saga frieza
It's nothing special and just hyperbolic used to hype up. There is also no timeframe so irrelevant.
“But Kefla”
It was the tournament of power, the battle between all universes. Kefla stating she can one shot a universe meant she can one shot an entire team
Kefla being capable of one shotting universe would mean she would be able to one shot beerus who can’t survive the destruction of universe 7
The true way Dragon Ball characters destroy planets
Dragon ball has been destroying planets since the early times. But many don’t know how. The daizenshuu confirms dragon ball characters destroy planets via aiming towards its core with a technique, causing a chain reaction to make the planet explode by itself.
Kid buu destroyed earth for example via aiming towards the core. Frieza states this as well and says it's a chain reaction.
We even see it visually when planet vegeta is destroyed in dbz, we see a core.
We see it visually all the time, like with namek its magma destroying the planet due to chain reaction
We see the core in DBS as well when frieza destroys planet vegeta
We see lava from the earth’s core when frieza destroys earth in DBS
All of this further proves they do it via chain reaction, not their own power.
For example, early DB characters like og roshi destroyed the moon, yet king piccolo who scales above him is only small nuke level
This adds more consistency that destroying stuff like planets=chain reaction and not=power
BOZ Piccolo who destroyed the moon considered great ape gohan to have incredible destructive power by destroying hills
No AP excuses, he is impressed solely on destructive power, which further proves they don’t scale to the chain reaction at all
Same piccolo who is “moon level” was impressed by Nappa destructive power
In fact Raditz believed a meteor was capable of soloing the saiyan race
All this further shows them destroying stuff like planets doesn’t scale to their raw power at all. Recoome who is supposedly “planet level” can only wipe away the ground and only alter the shape of the planet
It is talking about his destructive force, no AP excuses
More proof that they don’t scale to planet busting, it's just a chain reaction and Their true power is far below it
If we skip to tiers later, aka buu saga, Vegeta self destruction has enough destructive power to only to affect the earth
Why only affect? Because they don’t scale to planet busting
Ssj3 gotenks can only POTENTIALLY destroy the earth which at this point shows they are actually reaching the true planet level tier
To add more consistency when we reach DBS we meet beerus who FAR outscales everyone in dbz and can destroy half a planet by finger tapping meaning he did it with raw power not chain reaction which shows its consistency
“But cell is solar system level”
While cell did state this, and it's backed by guides, the thing with guides is that they are meant to repeat what characters say and give context
Guides can be contradicted by actual canon and in cell’s case it is
If cell was solar system level, Buu wouldn’t have ripped to shreds after destroying earth and wouldn’t need to regen from it, nor would they think earth exploding would kill buu
If cell was solar system level, beerus wouldn’t think SSG Goku would only be multi-planetary even after knowing SSG is>>>SSJ3 whom he also fought
If cell was solar system level, then beerus flying around planets and physically destroying them while out of control wouldn’t have been limited to just planet level(actual none chain reaction)
If cell was solar system level, kid buu wouldn’t have wiped out hundreds of planets in just a few years(via chain reaction or possibly surface wiping since we see surface damaged on panel), he would have wiped far more via wiping solar systems
If cell was solar system level, buu would have just said wipe more than that instead of just the planet(via chain reaction)
If cell was solar system level, beerus sneeze would have wiped more than just a planet since he obviously had no control over it, nor would goku and vegeta be impressed by it
If cell was solar system level, DBS frieza wouldn’t flex about being capable of destroying a planet
If cell was solar system level, ssj3 gotenks wouldn’t be capable of POTENTIALLY destroying the earth
As you can see, everything contradicts cell and akira toriyama is a very forgetful author and forgets about these type of details.
All attacks directly aimed at the core will cause planets to blow up despite them not having anywhere close to planet sized explosion, for example with cell kamehameha aimed towards the ground
Why would it threaten the planet no matter what? Because look how far it traveled into space, if it was aimed towards the ground it would go towards the core and destroy the planet.
Dragon Ball characters physical strength
Many people believe dragon ball characters have incredible physical strength despite having no striking feats? Why? Because they can tank their own ki blast.
Tanking ki blast=/=tanking physical attacks and i’ll prove it.
Firstly we know goku can take frieza ki blast, yet is scared to get hit by rocks
Gohan can take powerful ki blast, but is scared to get hit by a fast rock which only happens to do a decent sized hole, rock has no AP
Vegeta who is an 18 tonner in the android saga was capable of breaking android 19 arm by pulling
pulling=lifting strength, no excuses
Tien and Krillin couldn’t push through a steel door with their physical strength
All of this is more consistency, goku trains back in namek with 20g to 100g
How do you get stronger? By tearing tiny muscle fibers due to stress in the body meaning goku feels pain hence why he gets stronger due to doing weights, meaning if too much weight he would be crushed backed by dr briefs saying too much weight=can even get them killed
The fact that goku trains with single digit to double digit weights, gets stronger which shows stress in the muscles and feels pain shows more consistency their physical strength is bad
Goku even gets stronger by lifting, which shows lifting strength matters in dragon ball
The fact that gods thought z gohan cutting a rock down is an impressive striking feat just adds more consistency
Goku couldn’t physically overpower a rock which shows more consistency
As as established, lifting strength matters since they get stronger by it, feel pain with too much weight and can even die, or can break like android 19 arms
Supreme kai was impressed by base goku lifting a double digit ton rock
To add more establishment that weight matters, gohan gets stronger by lifting a weighted sword and gains strength by it
The fact that people say lifting=/=striking for DB is cope mechanism to excuse their physical strength when the whole series made it clear lifting strength matters
If something is too heavy it will crush them, like how vegeta would have been crushed by a rock
Or how he got crushed by gohan weight falling on him
And yes even if vegeta is weakened, it still shows weight matters unlike what the copium suggests. It’s backed consistently
CONCLUSION
Dragon ball is fodder, simple as that.
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