Mundus (Devil May Cry) vs Ares (God Of War)

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tagsorwhatever

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Mundus, the Lord of the Demon realm

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Ares, The God of War

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Rules and Stipulations

  • Battle in a nuetral location
  • Both are in character
  • winner only be permanent incapitation
  • both have full knowledge on each other
  • standard equipment

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MaulSmacker

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#2  Edited By MaulSmacker

Ares with extreme difficulty, they're on par in pretty much everyway but Ares is better in just about everyway, as well as their feats and scaling being very similar.

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Bossmountain

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Are we going by actual combat feats or by lore because by Lore Mundus created a universe and should stomp by vs wiki logic.

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MaulSmacker

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#6  Edited By MaulSmacker

@bossmountain:

First of all both of them did their feats directly on screen and during combat , and Ares did the exact same thing as Mundus.

Mundus's universe

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Ares's Universe

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Bruhmomento

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I go for Mundus tbh but it would be a good fight nonethless

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MaulSmacker

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I go for Mundus tbh but it would be a good fight nonethless

By doing what is he going to win?

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Bossmountain

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#10  Edited By Bossmountain
@maulsmacker said:

@bossmountain:

First of all both of them did their feats directly on screen and during combat , and Ares did the exact same thing as Mundus.

Mundus's universe

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Ares's Universe

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@eredin12 said:

Both of them created universe in seconds, but Ares seems bit more verstile and faster, so I would go with him.

Dimensiokinesis: Ares was able to create pocket universes that he could control completely. Ares demonstrated that during his battle with Kratos, where he trapped him in his own mind, where he was forced to protect his family, for Ares to kill after all, and almost broke his spirit. However, the pocket universe seemed to be made in Kratos' head instead of an actual physical dimension as when he returned to his giant body, he was kneeling as Ares appeared behind him and was ready to strike him down

https://godofwar.fandom.com/wiki/Ares

So creating a physical universe with stars and stuff within seconds >>>>>> creating a pocket dimension within someones mind.

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deactivated-644c7202b7524

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By Lore, Ares.

By feats and scaling, Possibly Mundus.

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MaulSmacker

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#12  Edited By MaulSmacker
@bossmountain said:
@maulsmacker said:

@bossmountain:

First of all both of them did their feats directly on screen and during combat , and Ares did the exact same thing as Mundus.

Mundus's universe

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Ares's Universe

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@eredin12 said:

Both of them created universe in seconds, but Ares seems bit more verstile and faster, so I would go with him.

Dimensiokinesis: Ares was able to create pocket universes that he could control completely. Ares demonstrated that during his battle with Kratos, where he trapped him in his own mind, where he was forced to protect his family, for Ares to kill after all, and almost broke his spirit. However, the pocket universe seemed to be made in Kratos' head instead of an actual physical dimension as when he returned to his giant body, he was kneeling as Ares appeared behind him and was ready to strike him down

https://godofwar.fandom.com/wiki/Ares

So creating a physical universe with stars and stuff within seconds >>>>>> creating a pocket dimension within someones mind.

The Fuck? thats a shitty wiki source not owned by the company or written by people sitting down and discussing every scene , canon potrays it as a real phsyical dimension as we see Kratos being BFRed their in GOWII

Loading Video...

this statement likely is from the GOWI novel , which is retconned in GOWII novel where we're told how Kratos was sucked into it and Ares teleported away, from the perspective of someone not involved in the fight.

No Caption Provided

Mundus created a universe , Ares created an universe and had full control over it , very different contexts

By Lore, Ares.

By feats and scaling, Possibly Mundus.

Ares wins via everything , via scaling as the fourth most powerful of the Olmpians he scales to almost every titan and every Primordial while Mundus scales to merely Argosax and Nightmare.

Feats , as shown by above Ares still has the upper land.

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Bossmountain

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@bossmountain said:
@maulsmacker said:

@bossmountain:

First of all both of them did their feats directly on screen and during combat , and Ares did the exact same thing as Mundus.

Mundus's universe

No Caption Provided

Ares's Universe

No Caption Provided
@eredin12 said:

Both of them created universe in seconds, but Ares seems bit more verstile and faster, so I would go with him.

Dimensiokinesis: Ares was able to create pocket universes that he could control completely. Ares demonstrated that during his battle with Kratos, where he trapped him in his own mind, where he was forced to protect his family, for Ares to kill after all, and almost broke his spirit. However, the pocket universe seemed to be made in Kratos' head instead of an actual physical dimension as when he returned to his giant body, he was kneeling as Ares appeared behind him and was ready to strike him down

https://godofwar.fandom.com/wiki/Ares

So creating a physical universe with stars and stuff within seconds >>>>>> creating a pocket dimension within someones mind.

The Fuck? thats a shitty wiki source not owned by the company or written by people sitting down and discussing every scene , canon potrays it as a real phsyical dimension as we see Kratos being BFRed their in GOWII

Loading Video...

this statement likely is from the GOWI novel , which is retconned in GOWII novel where we're told how Kratos was sucked into it and Ares teleported away, from the perspective of someone not involved in the fight.

No Caption Provided

Mundus created a universe , Ares created an universe and had full control over it , very different contexts

@crclopezos said:

By Lore, Ares.

By feats and scaling, Possibly Mundus.

Ares wins via everything , via scaling as the fourth most powerful of the Olmpians he scales to almost every titan and every Primordial while Mundus scales to merely Argosax and Nightmare.

Feats , as shown by above Ares still has the upper land.

Loading Video...

I'm sure why posting a video of gow 2 the fight happened in gow 1 Kratos's phyiscally body is still next to aresa the entire time.

he appears to get sucked in 3:23 but when look at 8:54 Kratos phyiscal body never left it was all playing out in his mind.

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MaulSmacker

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#14  Edited By MaulSmacker
@bossmountain said:
@maulsmacker said:
@bossmountain said:
@maulsmacker said:

@bossmountain:

First of all both of them did their feats directly on screen and during combat , and Ares did the exact same thing as Mundus.

Mundus's universe

No Caption Provided

Ares's Universe

No Caption Provided
@eredin12 said:

Both of them created universe in seconds, but Ares seems bit more verstile and faster, so I would go with him.

Dimensiokinesis: Ares was able to create pocket universes that he could control completely. Ares demonstrated that during his battle with Kratos, where he trapped him in his own mind, where he was forced to protect his family, for Ares to kill after all, and almost broke his spirit. However, the pocket universe seemed to be made in Kratos' head instead of an actual physical dimension as when he returned to his giant body, he was kneeling as Ares appeared behind him and was ready to strike him down

https://godofwar.fandom.com/wiki/Ares

So creating a physical universe with stars and stuff within seconds >>>>>> creating a pocket dimension within someones mind.

The Fuck? thats a shitty wiki source not owned by the company or written by people sitting down and discussing every scene , canon potrays it as a real phsyical dimension as we see Kratos being BFRed their in GOWII

Loading Video...

this statement likely is from the GOWI novel , which is retconned in GOWII novel where we're told how Kratos was sucked into it and Ares teleported away, from the perspective of someone not involved in the fight.

No Caption Provided

Mundus created a universe , Ares created an universe and had full control over it , very different contexts

@crclopezos said:

By Lore, Ares.

By feats and scaling, Possibly Mundus.

Ares wins via everything , via scaling as the fourth most powerful of the Olmpians he scales to almost every titan and every Primordial while Mundus scales to merely Argosax and Nightmare.

Feats , as shown by above Ares still has the upper land.

Loading Video...

I'm sure why posting a video of gow 2 the fight happened in gow 1 Kratos's phyiscally body is still next to aresa the entire time.

he appears to get sucked in 3:23 but when look at 8:54 Kratos phyiscal body never left it was all playing out in his mind.

Kratos was struggling while teleported while completely still without the blades of chaos when he returned from Ares's Dimensional.

alsl Bruh...have you played God of War franchise in its totality? one of the fates take you back in time to the Ares vs Kratos figjt where you can view Ares vs Kratos from the point of view of current Kratos and the fate, you can very clearly see Ares opening up the vortex and sucking Kratos in happened physically

No Caption Provided
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after that they both dissapear from the spot , they're not there physically

No Caption Provided

by the end of the boss battle with Atropos , you can see them returning finally, but as shown here the event actually happened phsyically and they weren't there physically anymore , and as GOWII novel shows it was physical , Kratos was sucked in and Ares vanished away after laughing a bit too.

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Bossmountain

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#15  Edited By Bossmountain

@maulsmacker: @maulsmackerI:I see what you mean about it appears to teleported in gow2. but gow 1 gameand Gow 1 novels makes it clear this was all happening in Kratos mind . it's not the wiki fault when narrative of gow seem to directly conflict with itself

No Caption Provided
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MaulSmacker

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#16  Edited By MaulSmacker

@bossmountain: even in GOWI novel it doesn't seem to be completely illusionary as Kratos is stripped off powers and weapons and magic

No Caption Provided

I don't think anything in GOWI implies it to be Illusionary , It can also be interpreted as Teleportation combined with reality warping as Ares can teleport people , like he did with Kratos's family and does himself countless times even in the GOWII novel of the scene, which is exactly what GOWII version potrays , the GOWII and I version are actually pretty consistent by games bar the point of view difference.

basically it is GOWI novel vs GOWII Novel and game which clearly potrays it as Kratos being physically sucked In and Ares teleporting away. Maybe at first they intended it to be in head but then wrote the Atropos scene in GOWII and changed it.

in this case , the latter sources take prescendence as they came out later/are more recent sources , its two vs one and its game vs novel where game is almost always gonna win.

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AnimeFreak1

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They have similar raw feats ( creating a universe instantly )

But Ares has better scaling

Ares is stated to be the 4th most powerful Olympian so he should be vastly superior to Morpheus who was merging at least 5 Infinite Sized Universes each with their own time-space continuum

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ProfessorRespect

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The omniverse explodes.

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Andromeda1001

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GoW's original designs for the gods were so cool. They seem so lame in the new games.

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Andromeda1001

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@estrelladeleon: I hated them. They're too simplistic for my taste.

Look at someone like Hades, for example. They really went all out with his design. Compared with the gods from the latest GoW's games, it's very underwhelming. Even Smite has better designs for the Norse gods, imo.

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Bossmountain

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#24  Edited By Bossmountain

@animefreak1: @animefreak1:

@maulsmacker said:

@bossmountain: even in GOWI novel it doesn't seem to be completely illusionary as Kratos is stripped off powers and weapons and magic

No Caption Provided

I don't think anything in GOWI implies it to be Illusionary , It can also be interpreted as Teleportation combined with reality warping as Ares can teleport people , like he did with Kratos's family and does himself countless times even in the GOWII novel of the scene, which is exactly what GOWII version potrays , the GOWII and I version are actually pretty consistent by games bar the point of view difference.

basically it is GOWI novel vs GOWII Novel and game which clearly potrays it as Kratos being physically sucked In and Ares teleporting away. Maybe at first they intended it to be in head but then wrote the Atropos scene in GOWII and changed it.

in this case , the latter sources take prescendence as they came out later/are more recent sources , its two vs one and its game vs novel where game is almost always gonna win.

No Caption Provided
@animefreak1 said:

They have similar raw feats ( creating a universe instantly )

But Ares has better scaling

Ares is stated to be the 4th most powerful Olympian so he should be vastly superior to Morpheus who was merging at least 5 Infinite Sized Universes each with their own time-space continuum

Bruno valezquez confrims it was just illusion and Kratos getting suck in was just an effect to make it look cool for the game. So WoG confirms that this was just going on in Krato's mind just like the first novel said. Ares didn't create a universe.

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Allfugger

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Ares wins 6 out of 10 times. Close and intriguing matchup. A rarity here in comicvine.

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MaulSmacker

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@animefreak1: @animefreak1:

@maulsmacker said:

@bossmountain: even in GOWI novel it doesn't seem to be completely illusionary as Kratos is stripped off powers and weapons and magic

No Caption Provided

I don't think anything in GOWI implies it to be Illusionary , It can also be interpreted as Teleportation combined with reality warping as Ares can teleport people , like he did with Kratos's family and does himself countless times even in the GOWII novel of the scene, which is exactly what GOWII version potrays , the GOWII and I version are actually pretty consistent by games bar the point of view difference.

basically it is GOWI novel vs GOWII Novel and game which clearly potrays it as Kratos being physically sucked In and Ares teleporting away. Maybe at first they intended it to be in head but then wrote the Atropos scene in GOWII and changed it.

in this case , the latter sources take prescendence as they came out later/are more recent sources , its two vs one and its game vs novel where game is almost always gonna win.

No Caption Provided
@animefreak1 said:

They have similar raw feats ( creating a universe instantly )

But Ares has better scaling

Ares is stated to be the 4th most powerful Olympian so he should be vastly superior to Morpheus who was merging at least 5 Infinite Sized Universes each with their own time-space continuum

Bruno valezquez confrims it was just illusion and Kratos getting suck in was just an effect to make it look cool for the game. So WoG confirms that this was just going on in Krato's mind just like the first novel said. Ares didn't create a universe.

Sadly , Bruno Valesquez gives us the bare minimum explaination about developement intention and not about what ACTUALLY happened in GOWII as well as him making a guess as he isn't a part of the writing team , still isn't strong enough a source to overdo God of War 2 , he is pretty known for just saying whatever he feels like saying , like the time he implied there is no relation between Chaos and get this, The Blades of Chaos

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or the time he implied Thanatos was a god when he was something far predating Titans aka a Primordial

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basically , Bruno Valesquez has a long history of contradicting the source material , the only way his statements can be used are if he is just supporting something in then game already, you Can't use it to contradict the game/primary canon , tbh the only way you can overwrite God Of War II is via a new game or new novel , anything else just doesn't work.

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Bossmountain

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@maulsmacker:I'm not using his statement to overwrite the canon. the visuals in the GOW 1 game makes it ambiguous whether it was real or just playing out in Kratos mind. the GoW 1 novel makes it clear it's happening in Kratos minds. the visuals effects shown and described in gow 2 games and novels does contradict this but Animation director said the visual effect shown are just an illusion and it is mostly happening in Kratos mind.

I'm not here debunk the entire power scaling of the verse just notion that Ares created a universe within seconds. the idea that he did is not well supported.

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MaulSmacker

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#28  Edited By MaulSmacker

@bossmountain:basically the GOWI novel potrays it as an illusion, but the GOWII novel AND the game itself shows that it was physical and the GOWI novel seems to contradict the GOWI game , the GOWI novel says Ares attacked Kratos with an "edtritch horror" when we can see that its literally just a vortex in bith GOWI and II , in addition to that Bruno seems to believe that somehow Ares and Kratos dissapearing away and only coming back way later is supposed to be a representation of his pain and such which is just him going "well probably the intention was" meaning he doesn't actually know the intention due to not being a part of the writing team, and is making a mere guess/hypothesis and doesn't really give a direct evidenced for why they would physically dissapear.

in my opinion, the evidence from God of War II is much more in line with the games and are newer content in comparasion to the GOWI Novelization and newer evidence>older + games>novel btw Mundus's universe feat is even more contested then this is.

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Bossmountain

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@bossmountain:basically the GOWI novel potrays it as an illusion, but the GOWII novel AND the game itself shows that it was physical and the GOWI novel seems to contradict the GOWI game , the GOWI novel says Ares attacked Kratos with an "edtritch horror" when we can see that its literally just a vortex in bith GOWI and II , in addition to that Bruno seems to believe that somehow Ares and Kratos dissapearing away and only coming back way later is supposed to be a representation of his pain and such which is just him going "well probably the intention was" meaning he doesn't actually know the intention due to not being a part of the writing team, and is making a mere guess/hypothesis and doesn't really give a direct evidenced for why they would physically dissapear.

in my opinion, the evidence from God of War II is much more in line with the games and are newer content in comparasion to the GOWI Novelization and newer evidence>older + games>novel btw Mundus's universe feat is even more contested then this is.

Bruno is trying to frame things in a way that makes both claims correct. GOW2 claims about Kratos getting suck in a portal and teleported is still technically correct because it does visually appears to happen this way due to an illusionary effect created when the spell is casted.

like i said gow 1 game's visuals make it ambiguous were it was real or not, gow 1 novel confrims it's illusionary Animation director believe it's also illusionary so it's 3 sources vs 2 sources. and you can just dismiss the latter as just a visual effect they added in to make things more interesting like bruno suggested and not something to be taken literally. Saying that Ares most definitely creating a whole universe within seconds is just spreading misinformation since more sources seems to implies it was just an illusionary spell.

Also I don't really agree mundus is really universal but the creator insisted on twitter that mundus indeed created a universe within seconds. which i personally think is a total BS outlier but WoG Is WoG. I also don't think creation feat actually means much either

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MaulSmacker

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#30  Edited By MaulSmacker

@bossmountain: but....Bruno doesn't do that though? Bruno says it seems physicals at the first part but later its revealed to be illusionary , like any illusion the beginning of the illusion would very obviously be illusionary but that doesn't address why the third person view of GoW II era Kratos and Atropos would be illusion, when he is addressed with why in God of War II Kratos and Ares dissapear he doesn't talk about any kind of Illusionary thing but somehow he just makes a guess that the writing team intended it to be somehow a display of the pain Kratos is feeling which is obviously strange as two giants figjting many hundred meters or more away with each other dissapearing does not in any shape or way make us feel the pain of Kratos.

his entire stance is built around the Idea that Kratos never actually travelled or never actually moved, he made the stance from the space around him cross dissolving in God of War 1 rather then it being portal travel, thus he must believe no portals were actually a part of the entire event otherwise he won't rely on crossdissolving of the entire dimension, practically for Bruno's interpretation to be correct Kratos has to stand down and be in the exact same position he was during the crossdissolving of the Dimension which we can clearly see is not the case.

I'm not subscribing into the idea of not taking the visuals and description of our only third person view of the fight as non literal, as it plays out in front of our eyes and is very clear cut and simple in what happened.

where are the three sources though? God of War I novel even contradicts the God of War I game on this and then you've Bruno Valesquez whose been wrong on countless things in the past, he has even implied Hope to be a platonic concept in the past and his explaination makes zero sense to why on screen we see Kratos and Ares dissapear , the effect of Kratos being trapped in this mental trauma state while Ares stands over him with the massive fire blade would've the same exact effect but yet they go with Kratos being physically BFRed, in addition God of War I visuals are amigious sure thing and thats why you can't just count that as a source in your favour or my favour, at best you've two and I've two, you've the first novel statement and Bruno's hypothesis while I have the second game and the second novel, and game is always gonna be the greatest source especially against a WoG that specefically doesn't want its opinions to be taken as cannon and is assuming intent and doesn't even make sense with whats shown and the GOW1 novel seems to contradict even GOW1 , a contradicted novel statement and a WoG from a dubious source as far as writing simply cannot overwright God of War II game and novel which are perfectly consistent with each other.

Kamiya on twitter never implied anything of the sort? he was asked if the place where Mundus and Dante fight is a universe, and he said universe , in addition Kamiya is a massive troll on twitter and especially rants about retarded battleboarders spamming him with questions and tells them to talk to their mother, still a better source then Bruno for battleboarding stuff but clearly not the best one.

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Bruhmomento

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#31  Edited By Bruhmomento

@bossmountain:

Hey boss! Wassup long time no see man

Anyway i'm not here to debate because i'm kinda busy but i will prove you this much that the universe Mundus created is legit atleast and the reasons are as follows:

No Caption Provided

Translation:

From DMC1 Precious Tears Memorial Album released in 2004: “As Mundus flapped his wings, the temple ceased to exist in an instant and the world was enveloped in a sea of stars. In the vastness of the universe, only two people faced each other.”

No Caption Provided

Translation:

Also from Precious Tears: "Unleashing the magic power from the profound field of his mind and body, Dante transformed his body into a demon. He kicked the ground and took off into the infinitely expanding dark sky. In his deep diamond eyes, he saw only the dark gray figure of the Demon Emperor. In a realm beyond human comprehension, a legendary battle has now begun."

This much atleast should prove on its own that the dimension Mundus created wasn't an illusion but a real stuff.

Now arguments against it being BFR:

  • Demons only use Demon Sigils to trespass into different dimensions however as we can see here, Mundus' way of bfr is different then what Demons are supposed to do so that is already a contradiction for it to be a bfr.
  • Secondly, when Mundus was seemingly forming the universe, we can see that stars are forming behind him later meaning he was actually creating it.
  • The same dimension was named as "Demon Emperor Space Heaven" which proves that this his very own dimension.
  • The same dimension collapsed after Dante defeated Mundus and he was on the verge of death meaning the universe was relying on him.

This also consistent with the following statements of not just that dimension but the entire Underworld was about collapse due to Mundus' dying:

This should proves that the said dimension Mundus created was gone solely for this reason alone.

I hope you have a great day cya!

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heiqn

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Bru(h)no moment 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

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heiqn

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#35  Edited By heiqn

Ares blinks. Low Multiversal characters like Morpheus are literally fodders to him.

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IAmTheOneWhoKno

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Ares wins this. Pretty easily.

Very easily.

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deactivated-644c7202b7524

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Ares.

He is fodder for Sin Demon standards.

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Bruhmomento

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#39  Edited By Bruhmomento
@eredin12 said:
@estrelladeleon said:

Ares still blinks. It's honestly spite.

Is gap that big though? Is it due to do Morpheus scaling?

Don't mind him, he is just messing around in order to bait me lol. My man is just like that.

Also yeah the reason must be Morpheus scaling coz that's the best way to scale Ares imo. Altho Mundus himself could scale pretty high himself to equal the odds but scaling for Ares seems more clear imo then again our opinions are our at the end of the day who are we to judge others ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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DamienWayne1

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With Pinacle of combat , Mundus solo the verse

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MaulSmacker

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With Pinacle of combat , Mundus solo the verse

with novel hyberbole and WoG , Ares solos the verse in return

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Bossmountain

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#42  Edited By Bossmountain
@bruhmomento said:

@bossmountain:

Hey boss! Wassup long time no see man

Anyway i'm not here to debate because i'm kinda busy but i will prove you this much that the universe Mundus created is legit atleast and the reasons are as follows:

No Caption Provided

Translation:

From DMC1 Precious Tears Memorial Album released in 2004: “As Mundus flapped his wings, the temple ceased to exist in an instant and the world was enveloped in a sea of stars. In the vastness of the universe, only two people faced each other.”

No Caption Provided

Translation:

Also from Precious Tears: "Unleashing the magic power from the profound field of his mind and body, Dante transformed his body into a demon. He kicked the ground and took off into the infinitely expanding dark sky. In his deep diamond eyes, he saw only the dark gray figure of the Demon Emperor. In a realm beyond human comprehension, a legendary battle has now begun."

This much atleast should prove on its own that the dimension Mundus created wasn't an illusion but a real stuff.

Now arguments against it being BFR:

  • Demons only use Demon Sigils to trespass into different dimensions however as we can see here, Mundus' way of bfr is different then what Demons are supposed to do so that is already a contradiction for it to be a bfr.
  • Secondly, when Mundus was seemingly forming the universe, we can see that stars are forming behind him later meaning he was actually creating it.
  • The same dimension was named as "Demon Emperor Space Heaven" which proves that this his very own dimension.
  • The same dimension collapsed after Dante defeated Mundus and he was on the verge of death meaning the universe was relying on him.

This also consistent with the following statements of not just that dimension but the entire Underworld was about collapse due to Mundus' dying:

This should proves that the said dimension Mundus created was gone solely for this reason alone.

I hope you have a great day cya!

cool.I was arguing that Ares's "universe" was a illusion tho not Mundus so this doesn't really got anything to do with what i said at all.... but okay fam.

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Bossmountain

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@bossmountain: but....Bruno doesn't do that though? Bruno says it seems physicals at the first part but later its revealed to be illusionary , like any illusion the beginning of the illusion would very obviously be illusionary but that doesn't address why the third person view of GoW II era Kratos and Atropos would be illusion, when he is addressed with why in God of War II Kratos and Ares dissapear he doesn't talk about any kind of Illusionary thing but somehow he just makes a guess that the writing team intended it to be somehow a display of the pain Kratos is feeling which is obviously strange as two giants figjting many hundred meters or more away with each other dissapearing does not in any shape or way make us feel the pain of Kratos.

his entire stance is built around the Idea that Kratos never actually travelled or never actually moved, he made the stance from the space around him cross dissolving in God of War 1 rather then it being portal travel, thus he must believe no portals were actually a part of the entire event otherwise he won't rely on crossdissolving of the entire dimension, practically for Bruno's interpretation to be correct Kratos has to stand down and be in the exact same position he was during the crossdissolving of the Dimension which we can clearly see is not the case.

I'm not subscribing into the idea of not taking the visuals and description of our only third person view of the fight as non literal, as it plays out in front of our eyes and is very clear cut and simple in what happened.

where are the three sources though? God of War I novel even contradicts the God of War I game on this and then you've Bruno Valesquez whose been wrong on countless things in the past, he has even implied Hope to be a platonic concept in the past and his explaination makes zero sense to why on screen we see Kratos and Ares dissapear , the effect of Kratos being trapped in this mental trauma state while Ares stands over him with the massive fire blade would've the same exact effect but yet they go with Kratos being physically BFRed, in addition God of War I visuals are amigious sure thing and thats why you can't just count that as a source in your favour or my favour, at best you've two and I've two, you've the first novel statement and Bruno's hypothesis while I have the second game and the second novel, and game is always gonna be the greatest source especially against a WoG that specefically doesn't want its opinions to be taken as cannon and is assuming intent and doesn't even make sense with whats shown and the GOW1 novel seems to contradict even GOW1 , a contradicted novel statement and a WoG from a dubious source as far as writing simply cannot overwright God of War II game and novel which are perfectly consistent with each other.

Kamiya on twitter never implied anything of the sort? he was asked if the place where Mundus and Dante fight is a universe, and he said universe , in addition Kamiya is a massive troll on twitter and especially rants about retarded battleboarders spamming him with questions and tells them to talk to their mother, still a better source then Bruno for battleboarding stuff but clearly not the best one.

i'll keep this this short.

1.)Saying that visuals in GoW2 outweighs the opinion of the guy in charge of animating those same visuals makes no.

2.) you've used Bruno's statements in numerous threads prior to this one. So either he's a reliable source or he's not.

3.)there is no proof Ares's dimension is a universe at all or even remotely universe size.

4.) it's debatable whether Ares dimension is even real at all with the gow 1 novel and the animation director both saying that isn't.

5.) the burden of proof is you to prove that all the available evidence supports the idea that Ares created a universe within seconds like ya'll claim. Which it doesn't .So there really is nothing more to talk about.

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MaulSmacker

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@bossmountain:

  1. No? God of War II is the primary cannon while WoG is secondary, anything from the game itself would logically take a lot more prescedence over anything not from the game , even novels are a better source then WoG , let alone a source of WoG that contradicts the games all the time.
  2. As I said earlier , only time Bruno is appliciable is when he is merely confirming or reaffirming whats part of the canon, his statement alone isn't enough to overwrite canon.
  3. You took Mundus's dimension as a universe , while Mundus has only showed stars in his dimension while Ares had a whole galaxy inside his Dimension.
  4. Yup, and God of War I novel is contradicted by God of War I and the animation director has a reputation and history of contradicting cannon with his statements, meanwhile the latter sources such as God of War II and its novel clearly potrays it as physical BFR and not just mind manipulation.
  5. I don't need to prove all the avaiable evidence does that first of all, God of II and the second novel are all sources more potent then what you've presented and thus my evidence takes prescendence, due to superior sources.
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brogokudestroys

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Ares should win mid-diff.

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IAmTheOneWhoKno

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Ares should win mid-diff.

Honestly can argue for a lower diff IMO.

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Bruhmomento

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@bruhmomento said:

@bossmountain:

Hey boss! Wassup long time no see man

Anyway i'm not here to debate because i'm kinda busy but i will prove you this much that the universe Mundus created is legit atleast and the reasons are as follows:

No Caption Provided

Translation:

From DMC1 Precious Tears Memorial Album released in 2004: “As Mundus flapped his wings, the temple ceased to exist in an instant and the world was enveloped in a sea of stars. In the vastness of the universe, only two people faced each other.”

No Caption Provided

Translation:

Also from Precious Tears: "Unleashing the magic power from the profound field of his mind and body, Dante transformed his body into a demon. He kicked the ground and took off into the infinitely expanding dark sky. In his deep diamond eyes, he saw only the dark gray figure of the Demon Emperor. In a realm beyond human comprehension, a legendary battle has now begun."

This much atleast should prove on its own that the dimension Mundus created wasn't an illusion but a real stuff.

Now arguments against it being BFR:

  • Demons only use Demon Sigils to trespass into different dimensions however as we can see here, Mundus' way of bfr is different then what Demons are supposed to do so that is already a contradiction for it to be a bfr.
  • Secondly, when Mundus was seemingly forming the universe, we can see that stars are forming behind him later meaning he was actually creating it.
  • The same dimension was named as "Demon Emperor Space Heaven" which proves that this his very own dimension.
  • The same dimension collapsed after Dante defeated Mundus and he was on the verge of death meaning the universe was relying on him.

This also consistent with the following statements of not just that dimension but the entire Underworld was about collapse due to Mundus' dying:

This should proves that the said dimension Mundus created was gone solely for this reason alone.

I hope you have a great day cya!

cool.I was arguing that Ares's "universe" was a illusion tho not Mundus so this doesn't really got anything to do with what i said at all.... but okay fam.

Oh...Well i was told that you were arguing both feats are illusion but alright ig

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Bossmountain

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@bossmountain:

  1. No? God of War II is the primary cannon while WoG is secondary, anything from the game itself would logically take a lot more prescedence over anything not from the game , even novels are a better source then WoG , let alone a source of WoG that contradicts the games all the time.
  2. As I said earlier , only time Bruno is appliciable is when he is merely confirming or reaffirming whats part of the canon, his statement alone isn't enough to overwrite canon.
  3. You took Mundus's dimension as a universe , while Mundus has only showed stars in his dimension while Ares had a whole galaxy inside his Dimension.
  4. Yup, and God of War I novel is contradicted by God of War I and the animation director has a reputation and history of contradicting cannon with his statements, meanwhile the latter sources such as God of War II and its novel clearly potrays it as physical BFR and not just mind manipulation.
  5. I don't need to prove all the avaiable evidence does that first of all, God of II and the second novel are all sources more potent then what you've presented and thus my evidence takes prescendence, due to superior sources.

1.the first GOW games shows that's Kratos body never left the area or was teleport at all. the novel affirms this and so does animation director. this is pretty cut and dry.

2.) and Bruno Confirm that the visual in the first GOW are what's canon and the visuals in gow 2 are just visual effect done for rule of cool.

3.) Mundus dimension was stated to be a universe. while Ares wasn't and is more than likely not real at all.

4.)it doesn't, The animation in gow 1 shows that Kratos body never actually left the area. Bruno even points this out so the gow novel doesn't conflict with GOW 1 game.

you only argument is that Kratos appears to have teleported in GoW 2 which Bruno already addresses as merely being a visual effect of the spell and nothing more. so there is no real contradiction here anymore.

the canon is Kratos visual appeared to have been teleported away by Ares but in reality it was just an illusion. simple as that.

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Bossmountain

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@bossmountain said:
@bruhmomento said:

@bossmountain:

Hey boss! Wassup long time no see man

Anyway i'm not here to debate because i'm kinda busy but i will prove you this much that the universe Mundus created is legit atleast and the reasons are as follows:

No Caption Provided

Translation:

From DMC1 Precious Tears Memorial Album released in 2004: “As Mundus flapped his wings, the temple ceased to exist in an instant and the world was enveloped in a sea of stars. In the vastness of the universe, only two people faced each other.”

No Caption Provided

Translation:

Also from Precious Tears: "Unleashing the magic power from the profound field of his mind and body, Dante transformed his body into a demon. He kicked the ground and took off into the infinitely expanding dark sky. In his deep diamond eyes, he saw only the dark gray figure of the Demon Emperor. In a realm beyond human comprehension, a legendary battle has now begun."

This much atleast should prove on its own that the dimension Mundus created wasn't an illusion but a real stuff.

Now arguments against it being BFR:

  • Demons only use Demon Sigils to trespass into different dimensions however as we can see here, Mundus' way of bfr is different then what Demons are supposed to do so that is already a contradiction for it to be a bfr.
  • Secondly, when Mundus was seemingly forming the universe, we can see that stars are forming behind him later meaning he was actually creating it.
  • The same dimension was named as "Demon Emperor Space Heaven" which proves that this his very own dimension.
  • The same dimension collapsed after Dante defeated Mundus and he was on the verge of death meaning the universe was relying on him.

This also consistent with the following statements of not just that dimension but the entire Underworld was about collapse due to Mundus' dying:

This should proves that the said dimension Mundus created was gone solely for this reason alone.

I hope you have a great day cya!

cool.I was arguing that Ares's "universe" was a illusion tho not Mundus so this doesn't really got anything to do with what i said at all.... but okay fam.

Oh...Well i was told that you were arguing both feats are illusion but alright ig

you've been lied to. I guess. if you read all posts you'll nothing of the sort,

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