Multi-Tier Tournament 2021 - Round 1 - BladeofFury vs. TheVoidofDeath (Winner: TheVoidofDeath)

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geekryan

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#1  Edited By geekryan

BladeofFury

Characters:

  • MCU Batroc
  • DCEU Asian Mercenary
  • DCEU Martha Kent
  • Raimiverse Mary Jane
  • Michel (Hancock)

Perks:

  • Mach 100 Speed (Batroc)
  • Adamantium Weapon (Batroc)
  • Invisibility (Batroc)
  • Basic Knowledge
  • 30 Minutes of Prep
No Caption Provided

TheVoidofDeath

Character:

  • DC Raven (White)

Perk:

  • 1 Hour of Prep
No Caption Provided

Tournament Rules

  • Marvel is current 616
  • DC is Post-Crisis/Rebirth
  • Movie, show and video game characters get access to all canon material
  • All canon and non-amped feats are allowed
  • Standard Gear
  • In Character
  • No BFR
  • Victory by KO, death, or incap only

Banned Abilities:

  • Reality Warping (and anything that could fall under this category, such as plot/fate/concept manipulation)
  • Time Manipulation (and anything that could fall under this category)
  • Speed Stealing
  • Power Stealing/Absorbing
  • Incredibly vague or specific abilities that no one has a counter too. This will be on a case-by-case basis.

Limited Abilities:

  • Clones are limited to 10 at a time and cannot be amped.
  • Summons are limited to 50 at a time and cannot be amped. Summons cannot be above MCU Captain America.
  • Power copying is allowed but only on your own team

No character can be beyond planet-busting (including physicals and powers) and FTL speed (so not MFTL, or beyond 100x the Speed of Light). With perks, every team should still lose a majority to a bloodlusted Silver Surfer.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/multi-tier-tournament-2021-1212-2231542/

Voting Rules

  • Only the two participants are allowed to debate
  • If you want to be tagged to vote at the end, say "T4V"
  • Vote for whoever was the best debater, or who convinced you more, not for which team you think would win
  • Make sure to provide reasoning for your vote
  • Votes based on obvious character bias will not be counted
  • Be respectful, honourable, and civil

Posting Rules

  • 3 posts each
  • 7 days to post
  • If you need an extension, let me know before the 7 days are up and I will allow you a 3-day extension (for a total of 10 days)
  • Failure to post on time will result in disqualification and an automatic victory for your opponent

Battlefield

Forest at night. Starting distance of 50 feet.

No Caption Provided

Best of luck!

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geekryan

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TheVoidofDeath

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I'll start tonight

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TheVoidofDeath

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Please tag @frozen @rajjaralt @koays @orcalefromhel

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Scarlet_Wiccan

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TAEP

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UltraPhoenix

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BladeOfFury

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geekryan

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ANGELICA10

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TAEP and T4V

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DatStupidGuy

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TAEP

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ursaber

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TheVoidofDeath

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Well, best of luck to you, my friend BOF!

No Caption Provided

The Power: Raven can shut down, negate, and absorb souls, but she has many power people often don't understand. Raven is considered a full psionic FIRST(possessing empathy, telepathy, precognition, telekinesis(emotion negation, Emotion Manipulation, and is one of the most powerful empaths' in comics. With this said, Raven has many other powers at her disposal, but we shall go over that later.

Psionics

Raven has is a half-demon and access to the minds/feelings of everyone on Earth. Through the use of her soul-self, Raven can project her consciousness into the mind, for therapeutic purposes or K.O an opponent. What's in her consciousness? well, Raven has had her father banging on her mental door nearly constantly since the age of 10. No one here is not comparable to her father, but Raven has shown that she was able to battle his influence for many years. Raven also need to constantly fight Trigon mentally of his influence, and she has way more raw power than your team (at least compared with regular Raven) and even skills, so she is honing both her skill and powers all the time and almost every night when she goes to sleep and in astral realms. Your team really doesn't have any counters against Raven's Soul-Self/mind, which can literally tear them apart. inside Raven's head, it's a literal battleground. Raven is not a typical psionic.

.

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SOUL sELF

Besides that, I donโ€™t see any feasible way for your team to win when she can phase and easily destroy. ( With the soul self which is quite different from regular phasing)

What is the soul self? The basis of almost all of Raven's powers is derived from her soul-self. . The manifestation of the soul self confirmed that Raven was indeed the daughter of Trigon. Trigon instilled more of his essence into Raven's soul-self and left without her, promising that she would eventually belong to him.

What's so special about the aiding of the soul self? the difference is that Raven Soul Self is able to(Astral) do it in the physical world. more to the point she can do more with it than most, since she can use it to carry things, teleport items, use her empathy on people through it, even use it to hit people with if it suits her. Most others can only use an astral projection in the manner of a ghost. In addition to this said, it is also used in her composite form as the nexus of all realities. Hell, the soul self can peirce the veil between universes, and she can choose to stay in them.

What has it tanked? Another kind of damage the soul self has tanked would be certain divine sources, such as Zauriel once cutting it open with his flaming sword of Michael to reach Heavens Gates. I pointed out that the sword cuts interdimensional rifts, Intangibles, spirits, and hurts magical origin beings. Raven tanked that hit.

Example, we have her destroying over 3000 demons who were beating up the post-crisis titans. This is just a taste of what it can do!

Speed

The Teleportation feats are instantaneous, and it's been stated throughout 1984 all the way on. Raven's ports traverse time and space due to her source being extra-dimensional energy. This means her ports travel beyond time and space and into the realms of the known and unknown.... once she teleports you're in trouble. The proof is in the Monitor scan. Monitor has omniscience on a multiversal scale. He's able to find anyone no matter the time period or dimension they reside, and yet he was unable to find even a trace of Raven.

  1. Raven, who has already faced down Jon Kent who wanted to kill her. (She avoided him without breaking a sweat) Raven managed to appear solid while remaining untouchable like if she was partially phased into another dimension like Phantom Lass does or something similar since Raven can teleport between dimensions. Raven was literally toying with superboy....
  2. Raven speed blitzing Belial and ripping out his heart in a gruesome way.
  3. Evaded attacks from flash and Superboy while aiding Trigon

P.s Keep in mind her psionics are fast enough to keep up with Bart in the speed force!

I'll add more later

Durability/ strength/skill

Raven has slain armies with her father

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The proven instance came when she took down an armed group of occultists through a mix of combat skills and teleportation. Later on, we find Raven beating her brother Envy to a pulp who is a 100 tonner. This guy was beating up Starfire and Donna Troy until he lost control of his powers.

You shall understand that she can use her soul-self to escape her body, and you will have a hard time putting her down.

In addition to this said, Raven kicks Donna Troy and claims she's her physical equal. And while she notes this is because of Brother Blood amping Raven, this amp was permanent, which means she still possessed this level of strength even after breaking free of Blood's control, so this feat is perfectly valid:

\

Raven fought two dark multiverse, Batman, at once, including the Batman-Green Lantern combination one, which was one of the most powerful of them. She took control over his dark constructs and used them against him, terrorizing him up to almost make him pee in his pants.

Raven is also a very good martial artist and uses a combination of teleportation.

Raven was capable of taking a hit from Demon-possessed Diana!(Raven defeated her btw) Raven ended up using her chaos magic to enhance the lasso etc...

Other powers to save for later

, Darkness Manipulstion, Seeding, ,Magic, Energy projection, Energy manipulation, portal generation, Empowering/weakening, Reality warping ,Soul manipulation, Transmutation, Psionic shielding, flying, absoprtion, healing, sense abilities ,summoning,Cryokinesis ,Electrokinesis

Hide and seek

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-Invisibility perk Counter: Raven can see those who are invisible! (Won't work)

Having said this, Raven can see those who are invisible so that won't work. She's a Trigons kid... lol
Having said this, Raven can see those who are invisible so that won't work. She's a Trigons kid... lol

With an hour of prep: Raven is a planetary telempathic and has the ability to see billions. Raven will know what her opponent's capabilities will be. Raven can read emotions /use sense abilities to know what they're capable of and know what their intentions are. Raven has demonstrated cross-dimensional soul detection, and Even in the new 52, she's shown the capability to sense and summon demons from other dimensions, so simply detecting where her opponents are shouldn't be an issue. No one on this battlefield will be able to detect Raven, because not even the monitor could. No one has been able to track Raven, and once she ports you're in trouble.

ability to feel the emotions of others and a precognitive power to feel certain events unfolding.

  1. Raven senses impending danger(The New Teen Titans #21)
  2. Raven senses the hopelessness of millions of people(Teen Titans #17)
  3. Raven senses the pain and misery within a hospital(The New Teen Titans #18)
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What happens

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As soon as your characters set foot on the battlefield, Raven will already know what they're capable of. Raven will hit your team with their fear, an illusion of death or coma knock out Through the use of her soul-self, Raven becomes intangible and is capable of attacking opponents leaving them in a coma state. Raves approach will be that of a stalker, and she will wait until the moment is right. Raven's soul-self, and a combination of psionics to put your team into a coma. In addition to this said, the soul self is capable of absorbing multiple opponents, but I'll save that for later :) Mere humans cannot handle a telempathic who has satan in her mind , and a mind torn from reality. Planetary telepaths have fallen in battle against Raven , and her demonic side shows when psionically assaulting opponents. None of your characters have the answer to the soul self.... especially when its described moving like light speed:)

keep in mind with speed feats Raven is able to manifest her soul-self instantaneously, and if her body is knocked unconscious she is still able to use her soul self.

An example of what happens to opponents that challenge the soul self! (This should suffice for now )

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Another example of what happened to someone like mongul :)

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Your move

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GodlyShinigami

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TAEP

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PurplehairedNi1

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TAEP

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SirKaboom15

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TAEP. This is all shaping up to be a fine tournament.

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blackspidey2099

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TAEP

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RedHotStar

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TAEP

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AKZ

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TAEP ig

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geekryan

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ANGELICA10

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Great opener

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geekryan

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BladeOfFury

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@geekryan: Sorry, I'll try and have it up today

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BladeOfFury

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The Batroc & the Asian Mercenary

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You have established Raven as a powerful and versatile psychic, but my team has the resources needed to overcome her.

Human resources to be specific. Martha Kent, Mary Jane, and Michel will promptly be taken hostage by the mercenaries. Both men have taken hostages in the past (in fact it was none other than Martha in Asian Mercenary's case), so they will definitely come up with this idea during prep time. The Batroc will take two hostages, Asian Mercenary will take another one, and they'll split up to different parts of the forest. They'll get into a call on speaker, so as soon as Raven attacks one of them, the other will hear and kill the hostages.

They can make saving the hostages even more difficult by holding them from heights. That way, even if Raven somehow manages to attack both mercenaries miles apart at the exact same time, she'll also have prevent a bunch of people from falling to their deaths in different locations, also at the same time.

Furthermore, considering the knowledge perk, the mercenaries can blackmail Raven using her secret identity of Rachel Roth. They can implement a system where if they don't check-in every fixed period of time, her identity gets released to the public, which would naturally put herself and her friends in jeopardy. To give you an idea of how such a setup could work, contact two random people online, let's call them KoL and Raj (pretend Raj is a journalist).

  • Send KoL an encoded message, like "htor lehcar si nevar"
  • Send Raj the instructions on how to read it: "backwards"
  • Tell KoL that you'll be sending him a selfie of yourself every hour, and if you stop, he would send the coded message to Raj
  • Once Raj decodes the message, he would collect more evidence for Raven being Rachel and report it to the public
  • Toss some cash in for both KoL and Raj to make it worth their while

This is of course a primitive example (the code should be made unbreakable without the instructions, the check-in requirement should be more demanding, etc.), but you get the gist of it. Raven won't be able to take out my team without having her secret identity revealed.

And then there's the option to bluff. My team can tell her that they have dozens more hostages elsewhere. They can tell her some hostages have been poisoned and only they know the antidote. They can tell her they've planted explosives in a crowded place. Now your response would be that Raven can read their minds and figure out they're lying, but can she really? She's an empath, meaning she can sense emotions, but that's different from reading actual thoughts. This showing that you provided yourself seems to support this distinction, as she senses people are hopeless but cannot read their minds to find out why. There's also the fact that The Batroc's thoughts will be thousands of times faster than a regular human's due to the Mach 100 perk, and even established telepaths like Martian Manhunter have trouble with speedy minds in the DC universe. And even if she could read their minds, they can tell her they have a 3rd character on their team. He's a powerful psychic who's concealing himself from her, and he will kill the hostages if he senses that she's trying to use TP. Now what? She can't read their minds without calling the bluff, and she can't call the bluff without reading their minds. Is she going to risk dozens of innocent lives, children, just to win a fight? This is Raven's problem: her morality can be easily exploited by people without it.

With all this leverage, with all these hostages, the mercenaries could simply force her into giving up.

I'm also not convinced that The Batroc cannot just blitz Raven immediately with his Mach 100 speed and adamantium weapons. You say her teleportation is instantaneous, but what if he attacks her before she teleports in the first place? You say she has the ability to teleport beyond time and space, but for the purposes of this tournament she has to remain on the battlefield, so what if he attacks her as soon as she reappears? You say that Raven can manifest her soul-self instantaneously as well, but I must ask for your source on that. You also brought up some speed feats against Superboy and Kid Flash, but exactly how fast are they? I'll be arguing that Batroc can blitz in addition to the hostage strategy.

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AKZtemp

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To give you an idea of how such a setup could work, contact two random people online, let's call them KoL and Raj (pretend Raj is a journalist).

  • Send KoL an encoded message, like "htor lehcar si nevar"
  • Send Raj the instructions on how to read it: "backwards"
  • Tell KoL that you'll be sending him a selfie of yourself every hour, and if you stop, he would send the coded message to Raj
  • Once Raj decodes the message, he would collect more evidence for Raven being Rachel and report it to the public
  • Toss some cash in for both KoL and Raj to make it worth their while

wat

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Morcee

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TAEP

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geekryan

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TheVoidofDeath

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Yassss im posting my counter today I have until wed

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AKZ

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Lmao

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TheVoidofDeath

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@akz: lmaoooo im countering now ..

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TheVoidofDeath

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#33  Edited By TheVoidofDeath

That's a funny counter!

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1. So, let me get this right, your argument is to let parts of your team kidnap other parts of the team... and somehow force Raven into giving up by only showing up with a fraction?

2. Mind I point to the absence of logic in that... if Raven takes out the part of them, the team she is presented with, and the other half blows itself up... she still wins.

3. Might I point something else out? This logic you have of Batroc moving at 100, makes me laugh Batroc is able t move at Mach 100... but doesn't have the body needed to function at anything close to those speeds. He doesn't have the speed force to negate the air friction, he doesn't have the bones or sin to deal with the stress., and if he tried hitting anything at those speeds, he'd likely explode like a bug on a widescreen.

4. Raven has let thousands die before, killed people herself, and knows she cannot save everyone lol.

Raven loves the cameras lol

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  1. Inconsequential, Raven had her identity known for 27 years and was publicly broadcasted twice for destructive behavior. Well, revealing her ID sort of means the square root of nothing. Raven already had her identity found in the daughter of darkness, and she erased everyone's memories.
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The best for last :) Thank you for revealing your intentions:P

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  1. Raven can enter the mind of others, rip information, invade thoughts, alter memories, erase them.
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Raven literally read Dickz thoughts. Even heard him from far away ...

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  1. Raven has been able to read the thoughts of millions and even found the location of chemo location.
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  1. I have saved the best feats for last, and this will be your very demise. At the beginning of my opener, I told you Raven's soul-self functions as interdimensional nexus. With Prep Raven, is capable of locating all of your teammates and even knowing their intention. At one point Raven was capable of scanning the entire multiverse of thoughts,but I cannot use that specific feat. However, Raven can use her soul self to locate the opponents , and find the location specified.

2. Once Raven locates them she can send her soul in pieces to the locations. Every incarnation Raven can do this :) Once the soul self finds the opponents Raven can subdue them , or she can send them into a coma . Nothing is stopping Raven from assaulting them , and no one has the immunity feats:)

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P.s Raven's mind can keep up with kid Flash in the speedforce , and was capable of keeping up with two flashes in the force.

BYEEEEE

@ultraphoenix@koays@frozen@akz@rajjarsalt@brucerogers@angelica10@morcee@scarlet_wiccan@godlyshinigami@datstupidguy

sorry was being lazy :/ I got uninterested lol

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BladeOfFury

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@geekryan: Does the mach 100 perk allow characters to move safely at mach 100? Also, are characters safe from having their mind invaded and subdued during prep time?

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geekryan

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@geekryan: Does the mach 100 perk allow characters to move safely at mach 100? Also, are characters safe from having their mind invaded and subdued during prep time?

Yes to the mach 100 perk

And minds can be detected and read during prep but not affected in any way

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TheVoidofDeath

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@geekryan:

I have an hour of prep ๐Ÿ˜’๐Ÿ˜’

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geekryan

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BladeOfFury

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@geekryan: Does prep take place on the same battlefield and both teams can see each other during it, or does it take place in parallel universes that are later merged for the battle?

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geekryan

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@geekryan: Does prep take place on the same battlefield and both teams can see each other during it, or does it take place in parallel universes that are later merged for the battle?

Same battlefield, but the teams cannot see each other during prep or interfere with each other's prep. Obviously, teams cannot also attack each other during prep.

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BladeOfFury

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@geekryan: I see, may I have the extension please?

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geekryan

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BladeOfFury

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No Caption Provided

1. So, let me get this right, your argument is to let parts of your team kidnap other parts of the team... and somehow force Raven into giving up by only showing up with a fraction?

2. Mind I point to the absence of logic in that... if Raven takes out the part of them, the team she is presented with, and the other half blows itself up... she still wins.

The threat is stronger than the execution. When a bank robber takes hostages to make his escape, would killing them off somehow help him lose the cops? Of course not. It is the threat of killing the hostages that keeps the police at bay.

3. Might I point something else out? This logic you have of Batroc moving at 100, makes me laugh Batroc is able t move at Mach 100... but doesn't have the body needed to function at anything close to those speeds. He doesn't have the speed force to negate the air friction, he doesn't have the bones or sin to deal with the stress., and if he tried hitting anything at those speeds, he'd likely explode like a bug on a widescreen.

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4. Raven has let thousands die before, killed people herself

You would have to be more specific. Considering Raven fights evil on a regular basis along with her superhero friends, I'm inclined to believe that these have context. Was she in her right state of mind? Were those people innocent? Was she capable of saving them? Was she choosing between them and even more people? There could be important factors at play, so please let me know which specific instances you're referring to and we will look at the context together.

and knows she cannot save everyone lol.

But she can save Martha, Mary and Michel. All she has to do is surrender in this one fight, and everybody lives. OR she can cause women and children to be brutally murdered just to engage in a battle that she may or may not win. The former sounds vastly preferable to me.

Inconsequential, Raven had her identity known for 27 years and was publicly broadcasted twice for destructive behavior. Well, revealing her ID sort of means the square root of nothing. Raven already had her identity found in the daughter of darkness, and she erased everyone's memories.

You say her identity being revealed means nothing to her, but immediately after you say she erased everyone's memories when her identity was revealed. So it means a lot to her after all? And for something to be revealed, it had to be unknown previously, so her identity wasn't known after all?

From what I can gather, Raven didn't even have a secret identity until Teen Titans 2008, when she was reborn in a younger body and went to school under the alias Rachel Roth. This is why she made no effort to conceal her identity before - there was nothing to conceal - but now there is. As shown in the recent series "Daughter of Darkness" that you mentioned yourself, Raven cares about her secret identity so much that she's willing to invade people's minds and erase their memories.

Unfortunately for her, this option isn't available in this match. Firstly, she has no idea which people her secret identity will be revealed to. To find those people, she would have to read the thoughts of every person on the planet, which I'm not convinced she can do. As you said, you cannot use the feat where she scans the multiverse of thoughts, so the next best showing you mentioned was her reading the thoughts of millions. Please post the scan or issue number so we can actually see what you're referring to, but even if true, that pales in comparison to the billions of minds that she would need to invade in this scenario. Second, even if she's successful in erasing everyone's memories, it wouldn't delete the electronic data revealing her identity that Raj leaked online. If someone writes it down on a piece of paper, she's equally screwed.

So yes, Raven cares deeply about preserving her secret identity and her only way of doing so is to meet my team's demands.

I have saved the best feats for last, and this will be your very demise. At the beginning of my opener, I told you Raven's soul-self functions as interdimensional nexus. With Prep Raven, is capable of locating all of your teammates and even knowing their intention.

Once Raven locates them she can send her soul in pieces to the locations. Every incarnation Raven can do this :) Once the soul self finds the opponents Raven can subdue them , or she can send them into a coma . Nothing is stopping Raven from assaulting them , and no one has the immunity feats:)

Of course this is out of the question - Raven cannot attack my team during prep.

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So the only thing she can do is try to read their minds, but you haven't really shown that she can keep up with mach 100 thoughts. Even if she can, knowing a plan doesn't mean she can stop it from happening. How does she deal with her secret identity being leveraged? How does she save the hostages in different locations at once? Could you please point to the feat where she splits her soul into pieces and sends them in various directions? Again, even if she manages to take out both mercenaries with her soul self at the exact same time, that won't stop the hostages from falling to their deaths. You haven't outlined a way to prevent that from happening. And if she can't read the Batroc's mind, bluffing is another option on top of this.

So this is how the match will go: Raven reads the Batroc's mind, realizes that she can't save the hostages and also maintain her secret identity, and gives up. Or, if she fails to read the Batroc's mind, her predicament will be laid out in written format (perhaps carved on trees with the adamantium sword), and she will give up anyway. Or she just gets blitzed at mach 100 as soon as the fight starts.

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JohnPeterBanana

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*Sigh*

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TheVoidofDeath

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#46  Edited By TheVoidofDeath

@bladeoffury:

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The Hostage

1. Oh, for god's sake, this is absolute hogwash! Inconsequential, you're acting upon preconceived notions and depicting Raven in a manner she's never acted. You're imagining the hostage scenario is just too difficult for her, and she will just give up. Raven has allowed innocent people to die before and is known for almost killing teammates. Raven isn't attached to these people ,or even knows them so there is nothing there that unblances her .

No one on your team is immune to TELEMPATHICs !!!!! I made that clear in my first two encounters:)

1. Raven can view the emotions

2. Your thoughts

3. Can control your emotions

4. erase your memories

5. Her psionics are fast enough to keep up flashes in the speed force Post/Rebirth "ost-crisis she was capable to snatch with her soul self an alert, serious Wally who was facing her, before he could react. Later on she (with some help) pulled out of speed force Flash Wally, Kid Flash and Slade (who somehow stolen Flash speed for himself and was running up and down through time). Here telepathy/empathy was also working with them in the same time."

6. Her spatial awarness is quite great , and you cannot hide your intentions from her.

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"I can make people fall in love with me" or "I can make people worship me if I want to".

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Identity

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2. My dear, you're reaching again with this ID plan. It's rubbish to think you could threaten Raven because if you read her comics, you'd know it's futile. Raven has demonstrated being fine with her ID being public in NTT ERA and was ever publicized multiple times for destructive behavior. The headline" Teen Titans member Raven destroying the earth with father TRIGON ":) Headline," Teen Titans member is known az Raven, and Brother blood cult, etc ." In addition to this said, this notion of Raven being remotely worried is ridiculous. Raven in, the Daughter of darkness 2016 caused great destruction but was capable at the end of erasing the minds of those who saw everything. Raven could technically take a new identity other than Rachel ,because Raven is her real name. Rachel is just a convieant way for her to pretend to be human , something she can also due under a different allias.

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The Adamantium weapons:

3. These weapons are known for being indestructible and even having the ability to cut through many things. However, they're not equipped for someone like Raven and the feats she demonstrated. Another kind of damage the soul self has tanked would be certain, divine sources, such as Zauriel once cutting it open with his flaming sword of Michael to reach Heavens Gates. I pointed out that the sword cutsinterdimensional rifts, Intangiables , spirits,and hurts magical origin beings. Raven tanked that hit. That holy magic and energy is something way beyond physics and beyond those weapons lol. Raven's Soul Self, which can literally tear them up like a hot butter knife. In addition to this said, she tanked the ace of the persuader which, can cut holes in dimensional walls :) Raven is not the one :)

Hell, her soul self was fine tanking Trigons hellfire in astral form

Cute

A bunch of bloody humans, flash rip-off, and you act like Raven hasn't faced that before? Raven has single handily taken down entire teams, and in the past, she has legit put down the JLA. Heck, she's eliminated 3000 demons who were given kid flash, superboy, and freaking Cassie sandmark problems. Hell, Raven put down the adult TITAN which included Wally .....literally

Raven's dark side was powerful enough to beat the Titans

Raven's good side was rescued by the dude also her dark side soul beat Miss M and WG in a with one sword fighting MM and with the other beating WG

Titans Burning Rage 7 defeating Mongul in seconds. He was running through the titants roster like water lol.

Raven again sololing the titans roster

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@geekryan@morcee@koays@pyrofn@lordofallhumans@scarlet_wiccan@godlyshinigami@akz@ultraphoenix@angelica10@brucerogers@redhotstar@blackspidey2099@death4bunnies@rajjarsalt@

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geekryan

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Cheth

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I think this is close to the end but TAEP

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geekryan

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It's been 8 days and haven't heard from you. I can give you another 24 hours or so, but if you can't post by then, we'll open for votes.

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1. Oh, for god's sake, this is absolute hogwash! Inconsequential, you're acting upon preconceived notions and depicting Raven in a manner she's never acted. You're imagining the hostage scenario is just too difficult for her, and she will just give up. Raven has allowed innocent people to die before and is known for almost killing teammates. Raven isn't attached to these people ,or even knows them so there is nothing there that unblances her .

Since when do you have to personally know someone to be reluctant in causing their death? You claimed once again that she let people die, but you still haven't provided the scans or even mentioned which instance you're talking about. There could be all sorts of context involved, which is why I asked for this info in the previous post.

Because you didn't post any evidence for Raven being evil, I didn't need to provide evidence to the contrary, but really you don't need to look further than your own posts. In this scan you just posted, Raven tries to liberate people from a cult, even though she doesn't personally know them. In this scan you posted, Raven tries to free people from being mind controlled, even though she doesn't personally know them. In this scan you posted, Raven works tirelessly to help people who've been struck by disaster, even though she doesn't personally know them. Is this a heartless psychopath who's cool with having innocent women and children killed? I think not.

Her psionics are fast enough to keep up flashes in the speed force Post/Rebirth "ost-crisis she was capable to snatch with her soul self an alert, serious Wally who was facing her, before he could react. Later on she (with some help) pulled out of speed force Flash Wally, Kid Flash and Slade (who somehow stolen Flash speed for himself and was running up and down through time). Here telepathy/empathy was also working with them in the same time."

You still haven't provided any evidence that these speedsters are faster than Mach 100 Batroc, even though I asked for it in my first post. I was expecting some feats, to which I had lots of counter-evidence ready, but I guess it's not needed.

My dear, you're reaching again with this ID plan. It's rubbish to think you could threaten Raven because if you read her comics, you'd know it's futile. Raven has demonstrated being fine with her ID being public in NTT ERA and was ever publicized multiple times for destructive behavior. The headline" Teen Titans member Raven destroying the earth with father TRIGON ":) Headline," Teen Titans member is known az Raven, and Brother blood cult, etc ."

"Raven" isn't her secret identity, it's her superhero name. Her secret identity is Rachel Roth, which none of these headlines or scans reveal. Hence the word secret.

In addition to this said, this notion of Raven being remotely worried is ridiculous. Raven in, the Daughter of darkness 2016 caused great destruction but was capable at the end of erasing the minds of those who saw everything.

In the previous post I explained that erasing minds wouldn't delete the electronic and physical data recorded, and that she hasn't shown the capability to invade billions of minds. This hasn't been addressed.

Raven could technically take a new identity other than Rachel ,because Raven is her real name. Rachel is just a convieant way for her to pretend to be human , something she can also due under a different allias.

Right, except that once her secret identity is revealed, her enemies would immediately be able to target the people in her life. People she cares about.

These weapons are known for being indestructible and even having the ability to cut through many things. However, they're not equipped for someone like Raven and the feats she demonstrated. Another kind of damage the soul self has tanked would be certain, divine sources, such as Zauriel once cutting it open with his flaming sword of Michael to reach Heavens Gates. I pointed out that the sword cutsinterdimensional rifts, Intangiables , spirits,and hurts magical origin beings. Raven tanked that hit. That holy magic and energy is something way beyond physics and beyond those weapons lol. Raven's Soul Self, which can literally tear them up like a hot butter knife. In addition to this said, she tanked the ace of the persuader which, can cut holes in dimensional walls :) Raven is not the one :) Hell, her soul self was fine tanking Trigons hellfire in astral form

Cool, but the argument isn't that Batroc can stab her soul self, it's that he can stab her body before she activates her soul self.

The rest of the post is a scan dump with no explanation as to how it pertains to dealing with my team's strats, so let's wrap this up.

Conclusion

I had 4 strats:

  1. Hostage strat
  2. Secret identity strat
  3. Bluffing
  4. Blitz

Only one of them is needed to work for my team to win, but for the purposes of this discussion, all of them work. The only counter to the hostage strat wasn't that Raven can save the hostages, but rather that she doesn't mind letting them die. Some claims about her lack of empathy were made with no scans to back them, and the scans that were posted clearly demonstrated lots of empathy.

Moving on, the main counter to the secret identity strat wasn't that Raven can prevent it from being revealed, but rather that it's not secret at all and everyone knows who she is. No evidence was provided for that, the name Rachel Roth hasn't appeared on any of the scans posted, and we know that she's willing to invade minds to preserve her secret identity. So clearly she cares about it.

Next, the only counter to bluffing was that Raven can read Batroc's mind, but for that she would have to keep up with his Mach 100 thoughts. Some showings against speedsters were mentioned, but the speedsters themselves weren't shown to be as fast as Mach 100. This also means that there's no counter to blitzing.

Really, there were many arguments that could've been brought up, such as the mercs not being able to think of these strats, and we would've discussed them, but they weren't. Based solely on what was presented: hostage strats 2 OP, blitz & decap gg.