Multi-Media Street Tourney Revamp R1: Gilgameshthepimp vs A_marques

Round I | Match IV

gilgameshthepimptoendallpimps

1. Eraserhead (4)
2. Alphonse Elric (3)

Trading 1 character point for a perk point.

Perks:

1. Non-standard gear (5)
2. Lightsaber (4 - Apply to Aizawa)
3. Constant Enemy Surveillance(2)

a_marques

Characters

• Albert Wesker(4)
• Prophet(5)
• Max Payne(1)

Perks

• Mind link (2)
• Basic knowledge (3)
• Two extra character points (4)
• 6 swat team soldiers (1)

Tournament Stipulations:

Voting Rules:

1. Only the two participants are allowed to debate
2. If you want to be tagged to vote at the end, say "T4V" or "TAEP" if you want to be tagged for every post
3. Vote for whoever was the best debater, or who convinced you more, not for which team you think would win
4. Make sure to provide reasoning for your vote
5. Votes based on obvious character bias will not be counted
6. Be respectful, honorable, and civil towards eachother

Fight Takes Place:

Gallery

Opponents are marked with the colour circles on the map, the former blue and the latter red.

@gilgameshthepimptoendallpimps@purplehairedni1

TAEP

Tag for the non weeb posts

t4v

3 Day Bump.

I am willing to post but I haven't heard anything from my opponent yet so expect my opener up tonight

@purplehairedni1: Sorry, been busy with other things and did kinda forget about this lol. I have work the next couple days so I wont be able to post, can you go first?

@gilgameshthepimptoendallpimps: Sure I have my post up tomorrow

@purplehairedni1 3 Day Bump.

@chronicplane: count me out of this exams has start and i am studying so sorry for the inconvenience

@a_marques Ight updated.

@purplehairedni1: Shame but understandable, maybe next time.

@a_marques@gilgameshthepimptoendallpimps found a quick reserve to take Purple's place, ya can work out details on who goes first.

@a_marques Just encase ya missed this.

@chronicplane: I can open. Working on my post right now.

Opener: An Eye For Alchemy

Heading into this debate, what strikes me the most is that, all things considered, both my own and my opponent's teams are kind of a complete mess. Aside from being in the same medium as each other's own characters, there isn't much to glean from in terms of themes, which makes writing a preamble like this pretty wack, all things considered.

Having said that, what I do have on my team are 2 certified good boys, ones whose specific set of skills should be more than enough to win this, so let's go over why.

I. A Wrap on The Situation

Let's start things off with my higher point character, Aizawa, who befitting of his value, is very much the primary DPS of this duo, with a toolset that might be useless against some, but can be a total gamechanger against the right target.

Let's start with Aizawa's quirk, the part of his kit that can make or break matchups. What it entails is very simple, if you have a genetic-based superpower (since that's what quirks are, don't even try to argue them, since they'll be gone in the blink of an eye.

And as for those who either Aizawa can't erase or for especially tough guys, Aizawa carries on hand special bandages that he can use to ensnare his opponents. Pretty standard stuff, but can certainly lead to incapacitation in the right situation.

This showing also acts as a good example of Aizawa's strength, being able to hold down Bakugou Katsuki even whilst he'd still be carrying the momentum he had from using his explosions to propel himself, which given how strong even his weaker explosions are, is quite the notable feat. Having said that, I will admit that Aizawa's actual punching power is honestly pretty mediocre for his point value:

Throughout the generations, lightsaber technology was refined from those first high-maintenance 'captive bolt' lightsabers to the lightweight modern lightsabers, which utilizes a stablized, massless plasma beam that burns as hot and bright as the core of a star.

Star Wars: Force & Destiny Core Rulebook

This is exactly why I decided to give him a lightsaber as one of my perks, which even in the Disney canon, have been explicitly stated to be as hot as the core of a star. What this means is that, unless your team has some insane heat resistance feats, Aizawa should have no problem going on the offensive

So with that out of the way, let's get to Aizawa's main draw, that being his raw speed, something which should easily make him, if not the fastest character in this tourney:

And whilst I could show off some of Aizawa's lower end feats, I think it'd be easier for everyone if I just skip straight to the good stuff and show Aizawa yoinking this bomber away from Endeavour before he could get his hands on him.

Now top explain why this is impressive, this is gonna take some time, so bear with me on this, but Endeavour has shown the ability to go fast enough to where Deku, Bakugou & Todoroki (who were right next to Endeavour at the time) couldn't hear the sonic boom he made until long after he started. Now on the surface, this seems like a pretty standard, if clear cut, supersonic feat, but this is feat is actually way more than that, and all it takes is to look at it from a different perspective. Instead of thinking of it as "Endeavour created a Sonic Boom.", think of it more like "Endeavour covered this distance faster than Deku, Bakugou & Todoroki could hear the sound."

With this new outlook in mind, this feat becomes infinitely more impressive, and to explain why I'm gonna go ahead and copy-paste what I said about them in a previous CaV. Call it a cop-out, but I'd just be repeating myself and it's not plagiarism if you copy yourself, or something:

With this in mind, both Deku & Bakugou have consistently shown to be able to perform low-hypersonic feats, so let's start this off by showing off the first-hypersonic feat from, a pretty straight forward showing of Deku being able to ignite both himself and the pillars of metal he's attacking. However, there is much more to this feat than simply what we see in a vacuum.

For one thing, Deku was heavily injured when performing this feat, barely being able to stand up & forced to hold his arm after his previous encounter with Wolfram, amongst the multitude of other big hits he received throughout the film without even a thought of having time to heal before performing this feat (note that due to the nature of All Might's time limit it couldn't have lasted more than an hour, give or take). Naturally, Deku being in top condition during the practical exam means that overall All Might going FTE to him is just generally more impressive.

The best place to run would be a long beach, like Pendine Sands in South Wales. The air is denser at sea level, which means there are more molecules to compress and heat up.

Source

The other reason as to why this feat is more impressive than simply match 5 is a bit more IRL sciencey, so bear with me on this, but according to documented research by official sites, the best place to reach ignition speeds would be somewhere at sea level to reach it most easily. Now on its own it doesn't seem that important, however, given that this ignition feat happens on the top of a giant skyscraper, Deku was anywhere but near sea level, which makes him igniting nigh-instantly much more impressive than the bare minimum of mach 5.

Another thing to bring up here is the general temperature of the area you're trying to ignite in. Pretty self-explanatory stuff, the higher the temperature, the easier it to set things on fire, yes? Well at that point you also have to consider that this fight takes place when it's pitch dark outside, which means that the temperature would naturally be a lot lower, and thus ignition like this, which is reliant on the temperature of the area such as the wind harder to pull off.

So overall, whilst some may call these points merely extra fluff, and I'll be the first to admit I'm not exactly an expert on this whole science smuckery so I'm willing to get the finer details a little jumbled, they both paint a pretty clear picture of this feat is a large step above traditional setting self on fire feats, and personally, I would put this feat with all of this considered somewhere around mach 8, give or take.

And as for Bakugou, we actually have 2 feats to draw from that yield pretty similar results of him being pretty comfortably in the double-digit mach area:

The first feat in question is when Baugou was capable of dodging a barrage of point-blank Water Jets fairly easily.

Flow out, of the pump is turbulent (high Reynold's number) at a pressure on the order of 40,000psi. The fluid enters a ceramic tube, a section of which contains a sapphire orifice. The orifice is made of sapphire because the design specifications require that the orifice remain at a constant, size and shape in spite of the high pressure forces and wear and tear. Sapphire and diamond can both maintain these dimensions for a long period of time, but sapphire is relatively cheap (the assembly containing the saphire orifice can be purchased from OMAX separately for just $39 [see ref 1]). The fluid is forced through the sapphire orifice at a speed on the order of 2500 ft/sec, or about Mach 3. The pressure of the flow at the location of the orifice is lower than atomospheric (increase of fluid speed across the orifice and their is an accompanying pressure drop with the increased fluid velocity). At this point, the abrasive is sucked into the stream of fluid, in what is called a "mixing chamber." See Figure 3 for a cross section of the insides of the mixing chamber and the tubing surrounding the sapphire orifice. Beyond the sapphire orifice, the speed of the fluid-garnet mixture is comparable to the speed of sound (V ~ 740 ft/s). The mixture exits the tube through a nozzle 0.030 inches in diameter at approximately 0.06 inches above the material to be cut.

Sauce

Now to quantify this feat, all we need to do is compare this to IRL Water jets, which gives us a speed feat of at least Mach 3, solidly putting Bakugou at high-supersonic speeds. However one may ask "how the hell does a mach 3 feat make Bakugou double-digit mach?"

To answer that, we need only but look at videos of traditional water jets in action to see that even the mach 3 water jets cut traditional metals at an incredibly slow place and only cover a very small area. Hell, it like 5 whole minutes just to cut off that 1 super thin piece of metal.

Now compare that to what Bakugou managed to manoeuvre around and there's a clear difference given how it was able to cleave right through a thick street lamp in 1 fell swoop. Now obviously, as a strength feat, this isn't that impressive but when filtered under the context of speed it makes it so that breaking through this as cleanly as it did in 1 go would mean that it would be way stronger, and by extension comically faster than any standard water jet. Realistically this speed feat is low-hypersonic at the lowest of lowballs, and reasonably would be around mach 10 by my metrics.

The other feat that Bakugou has is ironically in the same chapter that the water jet feat occurred, however, this one requires a lot less irl logic to run. In this showing, Bakugou is clearly able to outpace his own explosions to grab the bags before they exploded. We even see Bakugou mention how he took them "so they wouldn't get turned to ash, and we don't see the bags in his hand, which would have been the main way of debunking this feat, so overall it's a pretty clear case of explosion timing.

Nitroglycerin in an absorbent, with velocities between 10,000 and 20,000 feet per second. This dynamite is the most sensitive of all commercial explosives. The weight strength is the actual percentage of nitroglycerin in the cartridge. This explosive has poor fumes, good water resistance, and poor cohesion.

Source

And since we know that Bakugou's explosions are nitroglycerin based (or at least close enough to where a comparison is valid), we can use irl showings to put this feat at comfortably mach 8 speeds, which combined with the relative casualness of which this feat was done, alongside all the over feats means that mach 10 shouldn't be unreachable at all, which intern makes All Might solidly double-digit mach with how hilariously high he'd scale above Katsuki.

And keep in mind that mach 8 is the lowest possible value, and considering that mach 8 nitro explosions are tiny and even Bakugou's smallest explosions dwarf these barely human hand-sized explosions to a hilarious degree, so frankly putting this feat at even higher than the bare minimum is anything but farfetched.

Tl;Dr, Deku & Bakugou are solidly within the hypersonic spectrum, and Aizawa scales above someone who scales above them.

So with this in mind, good look finding ways to not get cut up by Aizawa's newfound lightsaber, cause your gonna need some serious power to get around him.

II. Steel Armour, Heart of Gold

And as for Aizawa's partner, we now turn to Alphonse Elric, who despite being a point lower and not on the same speed tier, still has more than enough to be a considerable threat.

Let's get Al's physicals done first since his kit requires a bit of a deeper look. Fourtanetly, Al scales pretty cleanly to his brother, Edward Elric, who outright admits he's never won a fight against him.

Gallery

This is quite an impressive opponent to be above, given that even at this early into the series, Ed has shown to be quite the consistent bullet timer against both pistols and miniguns, solidly putting Al well into the supersonic spectrum.

And whilst Al doesn't have many strength feats as he does speed scaling, he has shown the ability to clash with Pride's shadows, which are pretty powerful in their own right, being able to pierce right through Al's minigun-proof body, which aside from also being a good showing for Al's body, but should show that in an H2H situation, Al is more than capable of holding his own.

Speaking of Al's Body, it's durability where Al stands out from the crowd, in part because of his own feats, as I showed but also his very nature. For you see, Al doesn't have a human body due to being a soul attached to a suit of armour (long story, don't ask if you don't know). What this means is that traditionally tricks like pressure points or trying to stall for him to get exhaustion are simply out of the equation. In fact, the only way to put Al down at all is to hit the symbol inside him that keeps his soul in check, something which is obviously way harder to hit than just punching Al round the mouth.

Combine all that, plus the affronted scaling to Edward gives Al feats like walking off this building-level explosion from Roy Mustang like it was nothing, and you've got a top tier opponent for this tier, stat-wise.

But of course, Alphonse isn't just a walking hunk of metal, for he also possesses Alchemy at his side, which, to skim over the finer details, essentially, what it allows is that, with a clap of his hands, Al is capable of doing just about anything so long as he has materials to work with, whether it is ensnaring opponents, making pillars both for mobility or offence, enhance materials for a boost in power, amongst many, many other techniques which I'll bring up when relevant. Suffice to say, however, that this gives Al unparalleled versatility.

And what all this leads to is the main reason I picked up Alphonse, that reasoning being that with the non-standard gear perk, I'm able to give Alphonse arguably the most powerful weapon in all of Fullmetal Alchemist: The Philosopher's Stone.

To put it simply, what a Philosopher's Stone allows for is the ability to break the rules of Alchemy, bypassing the understanding, deconstruction and reconstruction that would normally be required, and essentially make the world your oyster, giving way to far more powerful alchemy. In Al's case, it makes the nature of his metal body all the better, since even if you destroy parts of his body, he can simply give himself replacements at the drop of the hat, essentially giving him one wicked healing factor.

And whilst admittedly Al doesn't have all that many power feats with the Stone, we have seen other users of these weapons, namely Solf J. Kimblee, pull off some incredible feats of alchemy with them, decimating entire city blocks. Combine this with the survival and versatility advantage the Stone gives, and this'll make Alphonse an incredibly difficult player both to counteract & find a way to put down, so best of luck.

III. Initial Impressions & Gameplan

Going into this debate, whilst I am vaguely aware of all 3 of my opponent's characters, I'll be the first to admit that, especially with Prophet, my knowledge of them is anything but high. Having said that, I feel that given the setup I have in this tourney, they'd need some crazy annoying hax to be any threat to me.

Simply put, my character's numbers are simply crazy high, one which I frankly don't see anyone else in this tourney matching. and alongside that, their kits are surprisingly synergistic, with Alphonse being able to provide Aizawa with the alchemy needed to really abuse how nimble of a fighter he is, something which I can expand on more as this debate continues.

But who knows, I'll be happy to be proven wrong, so let's see whatcha got.

@a_marques:

@a_marques 3 Day Bump.

@gilgameshthepimptoendallpimps Seeing as he hasn't been active in nearly a week and hasn't responded to any of the bumps unless if he surprises me then you move on to the next round.

Post 1

Before I begin I just want to make a few notes.

You barely showed any actual feats for your guys and relied way too much on scaling, without proving those scalings were correct. Not only that, but you were also blowing the feats you used to scale out of proportion, over-analyzing those feats with unnecessary fan calcs.

I believe showing low to mid end feats for Prophet and Wesker is more than enough to prove they're are superior to your characters in every way. And Max Payne alongside the swat soldiers are going to be decent distractions, allowing my team to win.

PROPHET

Bio

Gallery

The bio above explains a lot about Prophet, but here's a summary of the events in Crysis that gives a better view of what happened to both Alcatraz and Prophet so you and the voters won't be confused throughout the debate:

Laurence "Prophet" Barnes was a seasoned veteran of the Gulf Wars and Operation Enduring Freedom during the war on Al-Qaeda. During a drug-related raid, he decided it was wrong to kill civilians indiscriminately and put both of his CIA advisors in the hospital. When he was reprimanded by his superiors, he lashed out at them too. He was then sent to a maximum-security prison, where he received some documents sent by Jacob Hargreave. Barnes was set free, but in return he had to do a favor for Hargreave; Prophet was sent to Lingshan as Raptor's Team's leader to what was supposed to be a rescue mission, but in fact, it was solely to test the Nanosuit 1.0 against the Ceph. After returning, he got his hand on the newer and more advanced Nanosuit 2.0 and then ran away with the suit.

Alcatraz, a marine originally sent with a Force Recon Marine unit to New York to (unknowingly) combat the Ceph and rescue a scientist. He was one of the two only survivors of his unit after their submarine was attacked by a Ceph Gunship, Prophet finds him half-dead in semi-consciousness, gives the Nanosuit 2.0 to Alcatraz and soon after kills himself because he was contaminated by the Ceph infection. Later, Alcatraz had brain damage while subverting a Ceph bio weapon and his personality got partially corrupted, leaving space for Prophet's own personality(which was trapped inside the suit) to take over his body.

So, they're basically sharing the same body and their minds were merged together with Prophet's personality being the dominant one while Alcatraz's personality is seemly absent.

The Nanosuit

Covered with Cryfibril(most advanced artificial muscle in existence), it makes Prophet super strong and durable, super fast and agile, makes him a silent invisible killing machine, it also turns him into the perfect weapon with a biochip(SECOND) integrated to his brain that allows him to identify and evaluate all tactical options available in any combat situations, and more, much more.

The suit can not only passively augment his stats, but it also further increases Prophet's strength, speed and agility with Power mode and durability with Armor mode. Although those modes use the suit's energy reserves to amp Prophet's stats. And it also gives him wolverine like regen.

Strength

Cryfibril is stated to be 250 times stronger than human skeletal muscle, giving him the ability to punt cars like nothing.

Durability

Prophet can tank an artillery shell from a Ceph gunship to the chest and stay standing.

The same artillery shell that not only punched straight through 7 cm of Biosteel(far stronger than steel) like it was nothing but also snapped a Swordfish class submarine in half.

Here's Alcatraz talking about that instance sometime later after Prophet gave him the Nanosuit 2.0.

What makes this feat even more impressive is the fact the Ceph gunship fired at the submarine while it was submerged deeply in the ocean, meaning the shell lost a lot of momentum and force before reaching its target due to the large volume of water between them. Logically, Prophet was hit with MUCH greater force.

Also, Ceph weapons are plasma based, so it doubles as a great heat resistance feat as well.

Speed

The Nanosuit speeds up Prophet's reactions and perceptions so much he can literally see .50 HMG bullets flying in his direction in slow motion.

Lazy Dane using the inferior Nanosuit 1 was fast enough to react to Phalanx 20 mm rotatory cannons fire well after it was fired, throwing someone off of a boat then jumping into the water before it obliterated the boat everyone aboard.

Regeneration

Gear

For this fight Prophet will be using a SCAR Mod 2 assault rifle (4 mm fin stabilized rounds with tons of attachments), Gauss Rifle (10 mm hypersonic railgun), explosive grenades, REX charges, a combat knife, and Predator Bow with carbon tip, super-thermite, electric, and airburst frag tip arrows. You can see some of those weapons in action here.

WESKER

Albert Wesker is the subject of an experiment to create a superior breed of humans. Due to the experiment he gained superhuman powers, most notably, super speed, durability, strength and healing factor.

Wesker is equipped with his basic gear from Umbrella Chronicles: pistol, machine gun, knife and grenades.

Speed

Stated to be able to dodge point blank bullets and move at imperceptible speeds in his bios.

And then we can see just how casually he can move at invisible speeds and dodge point blank bullets.

Even after being injected with a serum which depowered him and gave him a huge migraine and physical pain he was still casually dodging bullets and moving at FTE speeds by walking.

Strength

Wesker is strong enough to casually punch straight through a reinforced steel wall while in a heavily weakened state being after being injected twice with the serum.

Durability

A heavily weakened Wesker is still tough enough to tank being shot in the face fall from a plane when it was high enough to fly over mountains.

Battle Plan

My strategy is simple. According to the OP, my team starts outside the building. So as soon as the battle begins, Prophet will use tag your team, allowing him to track all your movements at all times using his suit's radar. And since I chose mind link as one of my perks, everyone from my team will know where your guys are.

After that, Max Payne and the SWAT squad are going to throw smoke grenades around my team, creating a smoke screen and stopping your team's surveillance. Then armed with assault rifles and grenade launchers, and with Wesker joining in as distraction with handgun fire, Max and co will open fire at your team.

While that happens, Prophet will use his cloak find the perfect spot to flank your team and snipe them. His first target should be Al's seal placed inside the armor. Prophet will know about it's existence since I have wiki knowledge. A well placed explosive arrow between his helmet and chest armour should do the trick. If Prophet can take down a heavily armored airship from 1000s of yards by destroying it's engine with only a few bullets, like this, then he can definitely make that shot.

Al won't be able to react to an invisible arrow that he's not expecting. And an explosive arrow that can do heavy damage to a Ceph gunship and destroy it will have no problem blowing Al's body apart from the inside and destroying his seal, putting him down for good.

Ceph airships are so durable it took several hellfire missiles, sustained HMG fire, flying through a passage way, then a skyscraper and hitting the ground to finally destroy one. As seen here.

After Al is down, Prophet can just pull out his Gauss Rifle and blow Eraserhead's head clean off his shoulder.

Your team has no defense against Prophet and his ability to become invisible.

Counters

Let's start with Aizawa's quirk, the part of his kit that can make or break matchups. What it entails is very simple, if you have a genetic-based superpower (since that's what quirks are, don't even try to argue them, since they'll be gone in the blink of an eye.

Cool ability. I see no reason to believe it will work on viral and technological augmentation, though.

And as for those who either Aizawa can't erase or for especially tough guys, Aizawa carries on hand special bandages that he can use to ensnare his opponents. Pretty standard stuff, but can certainly lead to incapacitation in the right situation.

Wesker and Prophet should both be fast enough to dodge those bandages. He can't catch what he can't see (like a cloaked Prophet) anyway. Also, how strong are those? Why can't Wesker and Prophet just break free?

This showing also acts as a good example of Aizawa's strength, being able to hold down Bakugou Katsuki even whilst he'd still be carrying the momentum he had from using his explosions to propel himself, which given how strong even his weaker explosions are, is quite the notable feat. Having said that, I will admit that Aizawa's actual punching power is honestly pretty mediocre for his point value:

Those explosions Bakugou was using to propel himself were only fist sized. Not really that powerful. Nothing impressive compared to what my guys can do.

This is exactly why I decided to give him a lightsaber as one of my perks, which even in the Disney canon, have been explicitly stated to be as hot as the core of a star. What this means is that, unless your team has some insane heat resistance feats, Aizawa should have no problem going on the offensive

Prophet tanked a plasma artillery shell to the chest like it was nothing. And Lazy Dane using the Nanosuit 1 was able survive being grazed by the Archangel, an orbital laser strike which obliterated a battleship made of carbon tubes, instantly vaporized a large portion of a river and melted the riverbed. And even long after the laser strike happened the suit absorbed so much heat it was hot enough to boil the water all around it. Just to give you an idea, an Archangel laser strike with 5% charge can do this. That's FAR above what any lightsaber can do.

And whilst I could show off some of Aizawa's lower end feats, I think it'd be easier for everyone if I just skip straight to the good stuff and show Aizawa yoinking this bomber away from Endeavour before he could get his hands on him.

Now top explain why this is impressive, this is gonna take some time, so bear with me on this, but Endeavour has shown the ability to go fast enough to where Deku, Bakugou & Todoroki (who were right next to Endeavour at the time) couldn't hear the sonic boom he made until long after he started. Now on the surface, this seems like a pretty standard, if clear cut, supersonic feat, but this is feat is actually way more than that, and all it takes is to look at it from a different perspective. Instead of thinking of it as "Endeavour created a Sonic Boom.", think of it more like "Endeavour covered this distance faster than Deku, Bakugou & Todoroki could hear the sound."

He created a sonic boom and moved faster than the sound could be heard by Deku and co. That's all. That's a supersonic feat. And that's purely travel speed feat. So Eraserhead stopping him from punching someone doesn't make him supersonic in speed. Especially since he catch him by surprise.

With this in mind, both Deku & Bakugou have consistently shown to be able to perform low-hypersonic feats, so let's start this off by showing off the first-hypersonic feat from, a pretty straight forward showing of Deku being able to ignite both himself and the pillars of metal he's attacking. However, there is much more to this feat than simply what we see in a vacuum.

For one thing, Deku was heavily injured when performing this feat, barely being able to stand up & forced to hold his arm after his previous encounter with Wolfram, amongst the multitude of other big hits he received throughout the film without even a thought of having time to heal before performing this feat (note that due to the nature of All Might's time limit it couldn't have lasted more than an hour, give or take). Naturally, Deku being in top condition during the practical exam means that overall All Might going FTE to him is just generally more impressive.

The other reason as to why this feat is more impressive than simply match 5 is a bit more IRL sciencey, so bear with me on this, but according to documented research by official sites, the best place to reach ignition speeds would be somewhere at sea level to reach it most easily. Now on its own it doesn't seem that important, however, given that this ignition feat happens on the top of a giant skyscraper, Deku was anywhere but near sea level, which makes him igniting nigh-instantly much more impressive than the bare minimum of mach 5.

It doesn't look like his foot was heating up from friction. That seemed to be part of the attack. We can even see an orange aura around him before he even started moving. And it doesn't matter if he was on top of a skyscraper. I doubt the author knew about the difference between sea level and being on top of a skyscraper. We are not supposed to over analyze and use fan calcs for every feat. Once we start doing that, it becomes wanking. Every comic book peak human would become a 20 tonner because they can bust concrete walls. And every street leveler capable of destroying reinforced steel would be a 100 tonner.

Also isn't the limit for this tourney high supersonic speed? Then why are you arguing your characters having double digits Mach speed?

And as for Bakugou, we actually have 2 feats to draw from that yield pretty similar results of him being pretty comfortably in the double-digit mach area:

The first feat in question is when Baugou was capable of dodging a barrage of point-blank Water Jets fairly easily.

He didn't dodge those. The guy shooting those jets simply missed and was shooting all over the place because he couldn't handle the pressure force.

Now to quantify this feat, all we need to do is compare this to IRL Water jets, which gives us a speed feat of at least Mach 3, solidly putting Bakugou at high-supersonic speeds. However one may ask "how the hell does a mach 3 feat make Bakugou double-digit mach?"

To answer that, we need only but look at videos of traditional water jets in action to see that even the mach 3 water jets cut traditional metals at an incredibly slow place and only cover a very small area. Hell, it like 5 whole minutes just to cut off that 1 super thin piece of metal.

Again, you're blowing the feat out of proportion with mental gymnastics to make the feat more impressive than it really is. If you feel the need to do that, chances are the feat just isn't that impressive.

The other feat that Bakugou has is ironically in the same chapter that the water jet feat occurred, however, this one requires a lot less irl logic to run. In this showing, Bakugou is clearly able to outpace his own explosions to grab the bags before they exploded. We even see Bakugou mention how he took them "so they wouldn't get turned to ash, and we don't see the bags in his hand, which would have been the main way of debunking this feat, so overall it's a pretty clear case of explosion timing.

It isn't made clear if he grabbed the bags before he threw the explosions or after. We don't see the bag in his hand, but we didn't get a clear look at his hand. And we don't see those bags anywhere else either. So where did those bags go if he didn't take them until after he threw the explosions?

Wesker has better and more clear cut feats of reacting to large explosions:

We see the explosion happening right next to his face. Next time we see him he's standing outside the collapsed house, watching it burn.

Anyway, you never proved Eraserhead's superiority to Deku, Bakugo or Endeavour in terms of speed.

This is quite an impressive opponent to be above, given that even at this early into the series, Ed has shown to be quite the consistent bullet timer against both pistols and miniguns, solidly putting Al well into the supersonic spectrum.

None of those are bullet timing though. He aim dodged in the first scan. And in the second scan he aim blocked. We can clearly see the minigun bullets hitting the ground before the shooter adjusted the aim, giving him enough time to react.

And Al doesn't need to be as fast or faster than Ed to defeat him. Being stronger and more durable is enough.

And whilst Al doesn't have many strength feats as he does speed scaling, he has shown the ability to clash with Pride's shadows, which are pretty powerful in their own right, being able to pierce right through Al's minigun-proof body, which aside from also being a good showing for Al's body, but should show that in an H2H situation, Al is more than capable of holding his own.

That's a durability feat for his sword. Not a piercing feat. His sword isn't doing anything to Prophet who can tank hits from Ceph Stalkers while in armor mode. Ceph Stalkers have stregthened blades made of alien material stated to be atom thin edged.

Speaking of Al's Body, it's durability where Al stands out from the crowd, in part because of his own feats, as I showed but also his very nature. For you see, Al doesn't have a human body due to being a soul attached to a suit of armour (long story, don't ask if you don't know). What this means is that traditionally tricks like pressure points or trying to stall for him to get exhaustion are simply out of the equation. In fact, the only way to put Al down at all is to hit the symbol inside him that keeps his soul in check, something which is obviously way harder to hit than just punching Al round the mouth.

Nothing I can't deal with as explained in my battle plan.

Combine all that, plus the affronted scaling to Edward gives Al feats like walking off this building-level explosion from Roy Mustang like it was nothing, and you've got a top tier opponent for this tier, stat-wise.

Still not surviving a explosive arrow exploding inside his armor.

To put it simply, what a Philosopher's Stone allows for is the ability to break the rules of Alchemy, bypassing the understanding, deconstruction and reconstruction that would normally be required, and essentially make the world your oyster, giving way to far more powerful alchemy. In Al's case, it makes the nature of his metal body all the better, since even if you destroy parts of his body, he can simply give himself replacements at the drop of the hat, essentially giving him one wicked healing factor.

Can he rebuild his entire body? Even after his seal is destroyed? Because that's what going t happen.

And whilst admittedly Al doesn't have all that many power feats with the Stone, we have seen other users of these weapons, namely Solf J. Kimblee, pull off some incredible feats of alchemy with them, decimating entire city blocks. Combine this with the survival and versatility advantage the Stone gives, and this'll make Alphonse an incredibly difficult player both to counteract & find a way to put down, so best of luck.

Yeah. I will need to see Al doing something like that to prove he can do that or it's in character for him to do that.

Conclusion

• My guys are simply superior by feats.
• You have no answer to Prophet's invisibility and firepower. And due to the smoke screen blocking your surveilance system you characters won't ever know he has a cloak if he uses it while surronded by the smoke.
• Even if you can get find ways around the cloak you still can't put him down.
• Wesker has the stats to deal with any of one characters or at least distract them long enough for an easy win with Prophet sniping them while cloaked. Especially with Max Payne and the SWAT squad giving him some help.

Looks like I'm just in time, lol.

@mrsyg: @geekryan: @maestromage:

@a_marques: Tag me just for the voting now please!

@chronicplane: just to be sure. I am still in the tourney, right? I posted on the 14th day.

@a_marques: ye.

@gilgameshthepimptoendallpimps 3 Day Bump.

@a_marques: Just a heads up, I think the scan in your regeneration section for Prophet ain't showing up, at least for me, so if you could edit it in quickly that'd be appreciated.

Yeah, I don't know what was happening with that gif. It wouldn't let me post it for some reason. So I put a link to it instead. Tell me if it's working for you.

Counter: Like Teacher, Like Student

And so it begins. Honestly, when I first posted my opener the only character I really had my eye on in terms of potential threat level was Prophet, having heard rumblings of his potential from several members of a discord server I frequent (albeit with no specifics), but looking at what you've shown, it seems that my initial hunch was about right. We'll go into the finer details in just a moment, but it seems as if this debate is mainly going to focus on Prophet, with the other two merely being a side attraction, which combined with your frankly confusing attempts to counter my post, leads to having no qualms of thinking I can win this.

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You barely showed any actual feats for your guys and relied way too much on scaling, without proving those scalings were correct.

What? I literally backed up every piece of scaling that I used with direct on-panel showings, so I fail to see the problem here.

The most I can really see someone having an issue with is scaling to Kimblee, but even if you wanna say "no proof Philosopher Stones are made equally" or something, Al has directly clashed with Kimblee in an exchange of alchemy, so realistically, there shouldn't be any problems scaling Al's alchemic power to Kimblee's.

Not only that, but you were also blowing the feats you used to scale out of proportion, over-analyzing those feats with unnecessary fan calcs.

Show me one calc in my opener, I'll wait. And no, using perfectly valid IRL logic to quantify feats don't count as "calcs". Frankly, what I showed that could be seen as calcs isn't dissimilar to what you mentioned about shells losing momentum and the like, so if you have problems with them, you're being quite the hypocrite.

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makes him a silent invisible killing machine

Invisibility shouldn't be too much of a hassle for my team, mostly in part due to the last perk that I gave my team, that being Constant Enemy Surveillance.

I've confirmed with the OP on discord how the perk works, and given the way that I essentially hit the nail on the head, what this means is that, frankly, it doesn't matter if you try and go invisible, since no matter where you go, Al & Aizawa know exactly where you are and can simply act accordingly.

it also turns him into the perfect weapon with a biochip(SECOND) integrated to his brain that allows him to identify and evaluate all tactical options available in any combat situations, and more, much more.

Could I get a better example of how the Biochip is actually used in combat? The best I could gather from that link is Prophet saying "it gives me options", which is about as vague as it gets, so a bit more clarity would do wonders in making this a noteworthy advantage methinks.

Cryfibril is stated to be 250 times stronger than human skeletal muscle, giving him the ability to punt cars like nothing.

Frankly, both of these are complete fodder compared to what Al is capable of doing, both with or without alchemy. Frankly, I'm not too worried about whether or not you can argue your characters have better pure punching power, given the nature of how I'm arguing my characters, but either way, holding back a Bakugou going at max speed & clashing with Pride gives my duo more than enough strength to keep up.

Prophet can tank an artillery shell from a Ceph gunship to the chest and stay standing.

This is impressive for sure, but I don't think I need to explain cutting through 7cm of strong steel is by no means city-block level, unless you want to use some kind of "unneeded fan calc" or something too prove otherwise. If not, well then Al's got him beat and then some.

Also, Ceph weapons are plasma based, so it doubles as a great heat resistance feat as well.

This isn't anything I should be concerned with, simply due to the very nature of plasma:

According to the ways of science, plasma caps out at about 14,500 Fahrenheit, which whilst impressive on its own, isn't exactly much of note when compared to the core of a star, which, using our own sun as a reference point, can reach up to 27 million, so Prophet isn't safe from getting sliced and diced by Aizawa's lightsaber.

The Nanosuit speeds up Prophet's reactions and perceptions so much he can literally see .50 HMG bullets flying in his direction in slow motion. Lazy Dane using the inferior Nanosuit 1 was fast enough to react to Phalanx 20 mm rotatory cannons fire well after it was fired, throwing someone off of a boat then jumping into the water before it obliterated the boat everyone aboard.

Here's where things finally get vaguely interesting with Prophet, as whilst they are certainly impressive, that I definitely won't disparage for a second, they aren't something either of my characters can't keep up with.

Obviously, Aizawa being at double-digit mach gives him more than enough breathing room to work with, but as far as Al goes, I'll admit that Prophet is at the very least comparable in speed, or even have a slight advantage. Having said that, Al scaling way ahead of someone like Edward, who\s minigun feat already puts him into the mid-supersonic should at the very least make it so that Prophet can't just blitz Al's head off, and between the inherent mobility Alchemy provides, it should show that Prophet will need to work to get a good hit in.

The Nanosuit 2.0 also has a crazy fast healing factor regenerating both arms in seconds.

Whilst this sounds annoying on paper, it shouldn't be too much of an issue.

Setting aside the question of whether or not Prophet can regenerate from immediately fatal wounds like decapitation via lightsaber, nothing's stopping Al from using his alchemy to simply restrain Prophet like what he did to Fu (albeit on a larger scale), resulting in victory via KO. It's not like Prophet can just rip out of it, given the aforementioned city-block level Alchemy Al has on hand, so even if you want to argue Prophet has a Deadpool level healing factor, it's honestly just a minor inconvenience really.

For this fight Prophet will be using a SCAR Mod 2 assault rifle (4 mm fin stabilized rounds with tons of attachments), Gauss Rifle (10 mm hypersonic railgun), explosive grenades, REX charges, a combat knife, and Predator Bow with carbon tip, super-thermite, electric, and airburst frag tip arrows

Good luck hitting Aizawa with them. As far as standard gunfire goes, it isn't anything he can't avoid with ease, and it's not like they wont see it coming since they'll know exactly where you are. And frankly, even if you do hit Al (which even then isn't exactly easy given his high supersonic speeds), that video you showed didn't show anything Al couldn't tank with ease, given the building level durability he scales too, so unless you wanna climb into Al's armour and try to hit his seal (something Al would know immediately), then as far as raw power goes, Prophet's nothing to worry about.

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Even after being injected with a serum which depowered him and gave him a huge migraine and physical pain he was still casually dodging bullets and moving at FTE speeds by walking.

Yeah, I don't think I need to explain why this ain't nothing my characters haven't performed before.

A heavily weakened Wesker is still tough enough to tank being shot in the face fall from a plane when it was high enough to fly over mountains. Wesker is strong enough to casually punch straight through a reinforced steel wall while in a heavily weakened state being after being injected twice with the serum.

Yeah, if this is Wesker's best then simply put, he's out of his weight class here, both in terms of matching Al's destructive power or surviving getting sliced down by Aizawa's lightsaber.

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So as soon as the battle begins, Prophet will use tag your team, allowing him to track all your movements at all times using his suit's radar. And since I chose mind link as one of my perks, everyone from my team will know where your guys are.

The what now? Unless I'm going blind, nowhere in this debate did you bring up Tag in any form, so your gonna have to explain that Prophet even has this and how it helps scan for Al & Aizawa.

After that, Max Payne and the SWAT squad are going to throw smoke grenades around my team, creating a smoke screen and stopping your team's surveillance. Then armed with assault rifles and grenade launchers, and with Wesker joining in as distraction with handgun fire, Max and co will open fire at your team.

Smoke Grenades don't matter since my duo will always know where you are, and the bullets are either gonna get dodged, ignored due to being bulletproof, or both.

A well placed explosive arrow between his helmet and chest armour should do the trick. If Prophet can take down a heavily armored airship from 1000s of yards by destroying it's engine with only a few bullets, like this, then he can definitely make that shot.

The difference between that and what Al can do is quite simple. Unless you can show otherwise, that helicopter isn't even coming remotely close to supersonic speeds, so frankly trying to hit Al with a bullet would be more trouble than it's worth, let alone an arrow that can easily be blocked by a wall of Alchemy. Not to mention that it's going to be an inherently harder job to slide an arrow in-between Al's body, both because of its slower travel speed, & the very nature of arrows being way larger than any bullet, so overall, trying to hit Al's very specific body which he goes out of his way to make sure it's ultra-secure is easier said than done.

Al won't be able to react to an invisible arrow that he's not expecting. And an explosive arrow that can do heavy damage to a Ceph gunship and destroy it will have no problem blowing Al's body apart from the inside and destroying his seal, putting him down for good. Ceph airships are so durable it took several hellfire missiles, sustained HMG fire, flying through a passage way, then a skyscraper and hitting the ground to finally destroy one. As seen here.

Eh, in theory, yeah, but you have to remember that Alchemy is capable of enhancing non-organic material, as I've already shown Edward doing in his battle against Scar. So realistically, Al has no reason not amp his own body with the Philosopher's Stone, and given the constant reminder of its city-block level alchemy, it should reasonably give Al the similar levels of defence, which needless to say, should be more than enough to shrug off these arrows. Worst case though, he just fixes the damage right back up like nothing ever happened.

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Those explosions Bakugou was using to propel himself were only fist sized. Not really that powerful. Nothing impressive compared to what my guys can do.

So we just ignoring the feats I showed for Bakugou's explosions, which is the part that makes it impressive?

Prophet tanked a plasma artillery shell to the chest like it was nothing. And Lazy Dane using the Nanosuit 1 was able survive being grazed by the Archangel, an orbital laser strike which obliterated a battleship made of carbon tubes, instantly vaporized a large portion of a river and melted the riverbed. And even long after the laser strike happened the suit absorbed so much heat it was hot enough to boil the water all around it. Just to give you an idea, an Archangel laser strike with 5% charge can do this. That's FAR above what any lightsaber can do.

In terms of DC? Maybe, I honestly wouldn't know, but heat/potency wise? Not a chance in hell. Vaping a lake/riverbed is certainly noteworthy out of context, but unless you can prove a feat like that would require millions of degrees worth of heat, this simply isn't on the same scale as a Lightsaber, and thus Aizawa shouldn't have any issues blasting through the nano suit.

He created a sonic boom and moved faster than the sound could be heard by Deku and co. That's all. That's a supersonic feat.

D-did you not read the 2nd paragraph I wrote? On one hand, you quoted it so you clearly acknowledge it, but at the same time, you made no attempts to try and debunk and just claimed "it's a supersonic feat" whilst ignorantly turning a blind eye to what makes the feat impressive.

And that's purely travel speed feat. So Eraserhead stopping him from punching someone doesn't make him supersonic in speed.

Good thing Endeavour was clearing going for a bullrush style attack, given the way the panels are framed, which inherently require travel speed due to their nature, so Endeavour's "travel speed" here is perfectly valid for use.

Especially since he catch him by surprise.

I fail to see why this matters. Aizawa's feat has nothing to do with catching Endeavour by surprise since Endeavour was already going at top speeds.

It doesn't look like his foot was heating up from friction. That seemed to be part of the attack. We can even see an orange aura around him before he even started moving.

What, so Deku suddenly got Pyrokinesis sometime in 2 Heroes and never again? Of course not, that'd be silly.

And it doesn't matter if he was on top of a skyscraper. I doubt the author knew about the difference between sea level and being on top of a skyscraper. We are not supposed to over analyze and use fan calcs for every feat. Once we start doing that, it becomes wanking. Every comic book peak human would become a 20 tonner because they can bust concrete walls. And every street leveler capable of destroying reinforced steel would be a 100 tonner.

What the author intends to show and what is actually shown are 2 very different things. And "wanking" implies that the methods in question are an inherently bad or incorrect interpretation, which this clearly isn't given that you've shown 0 proof against the feat in question that's valid. Sure, it makes the feats better than they would without the calcs, but frankly, that's not an inherently bad thing, not by a long shot.

Also isn't the limit for this tourney high supersonic speed? Then why are you arguing your characters having double digits Mach speed?

There is no speed limit, you can dig through the signup pages left and right but it doesn't exist, just a vague "can't beat spiderman" example that means nothing to someone who's never read a Marvel comic in his life.

He didn't dodge those. The guy shooting those jets simply missed and was shooting all over the place because he couldn't handle the pressure force.

And that's why we see a Water Jet headed straight towards Bakugou in the top right panel?

Again, you're blowing the feat out of proportion with mental gymnastics to make the feat more impressive than it really is. If you feel the need to do that, chances are the feat just isn't that impressive.

Care to elaborate on what those mental gymnastics are, or are you just going to whine about me using a perfectly valid method to quantify a feat?

It isn't made clear if he grabbed the bags before he threw the explosions or after. We don't see the bag in his hand, but we didn't get a clear look at his hand. And we don't see those bags anywhere else either. So where did those bags go if he didn't take them until after he threw the explosions?

If Bakugou had the bags on hand, we would've seen it somewhere on his person, and it's not like he had anywhere to hide them from the explosions or anything like that, unless you're saying he threw them to the side or something (which you'd have no proof of).

We see the explosion happening right next to his face. Next time we see him he's standing outside the collapsed house, watching it burn.

Bakugou's explosions being Mach 8 also means that they are far more quantifiable and generally faster than typical high-supersonic explosions afaik.

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None of those are bullet timing though. He aim dodged in the first scan.

Care to elaborate on how he's aim-dodging here when Dr Marco clearly had every intention of shooting him the moment the door opened and Ed didn't even realise the gun was there for a good portion of that time?

And in the second scan he aim blocked. We can clearly see the minigun bullets hitting the ground before the shooter adjusted the aim, giving him enough time to react.

This counter doesn't work simply on the logic behind whether this was aim-blocking. If this was aim-blocking, then Cornello would clearly be able to see the wall of Alchemy Ed made before the bullets reached his location, and would've reacted accordingly. The fact that he didn't makes it very clear that the alchemy wall was built after the bullets were directly facing them, which frankly makes the feat even more impressive since Ed had to have clapped his hands, put them on the ground, and the alchemy itself to rise before the bullets travelled a very short distance.

And Al doesn't need to be as fast or faster than Ed to defeat him. Being stronger and more durable is enough.

Good thing we've seen them spare directly, and Al was more than capable of blocking Ed's attacks and getting him in a grab, so it's clear he isn't just a wall Ed can't pass.

That's a durability feat for his sword. Not a piercing feat. His sword isn't doing anything to Prophet who can tank hits from Ceph Stalkers while in armor mode.

If Al wasn't strong enough to block Pride, the latter would have simply overpowered the former and/or knocked the sword away.

What You Need to Prove:

As I mentioned in my prelude, this seems like it's mainly going to be the Prophet shows, as Wesker is simply out of his weight-class here, both in terms of speed especially strength & durability, and it makes him really easy pickings for Aizawa to simply slice and dice. And as for Max Payne and the fodder...Yeah. I don't think I need to go into detail about how much of a non-factor they are, Al quickly restraint them with alchemy and calls it an evening.

This leads the main man of the hour, and whilst Prophet is certainly impressive speed-wise, he's nothing Aizawa can't handle, no matter how hard he statues those bullets. And whilst Aizawa doesn't have the raw power advantage, he does have a lightsaber which Prophet simply doesn't have the heat showings to stand up to, as well as a city-block level monster to back him up.

Simply put, this is simply a match where I have all the bases covered, and Prophet's versatility can only go so far.

@maestromage thank you based extension

@a_marques 3 Day Bump.