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#101 Posted by jashro44 (51888 posts) - - Show Bio

@leothegreatest:

Really doubt he isn’t that strong considering Goku and Vegeta litteraly ran away from him.

I never said Broly wasn't a lot stronger than them. But your assuming he has a level of ability he never displayed. He's never shown speed on par with MUI Goku.

He could’ve charaged it up where piccolo was for the entire hour.

I don't think Goku can transport the spirit bomb back to the battle field. Even if he could its not necessary because they had fusion.

That’s a contradiction but then as he was “showing his real power” Base Goku tanked his attacks.

This is the same argument people use to downplay Broly when they bring up he didn't KO frieza in one hour. Also that still isn't Jiren showing his full power but just a "hint".

And you didn’t address the point that through that scaling SSB Vegeta would be above Beerus. If we use that scaling then Gogeta would effortlessly clap MUI Goku.

SSB Vegeta isn't stronger than Beerus but even if he were it wouldn't matter. Because Jiren beat up Vegeta, Goku and 17 at the same time. I don't see how this translates to Gogeta beating MUI.

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#102 Edited by jashro44 (51888 posts) - - Show Bio

@thewatcherking said:
@jashro44 said:

@thewatcherking: We don't really know how much stronger LSSJ is compared to Broly's regular ssj other than he made Gogeta powerup. But Gogeta's only feat is fighting Broly so that isn't really useful.

The fact that he needed to cut straight to SSB instead of say SSG is pretty significant to me. I know it's not enough to say the exact multiplier for the transformation but it clearly is quite powerful for him to need to go to his most powerful form to have the advantage in the fight.

We can't measure or gauge this. Yea I agree its strong but the only measurement for Brolys full power is he is "probably stronger than beerus". So was Jiren.

EDIT: I am aware Broly stomping ssj blue tier characters is also another measurement, however its not a good one as characters weaker than Broly could also do the same thing.

@u_wot_m8 said:

He was trying, he even tried blitzing him in the beginning of the fight, MUI was stronger then Jiren, but Jiren wasn't completely out matched in that fight. Broly ability to handle attacks is what makes him stand out though (along with rising power), even against stronger foes like Base Broly vs SSJ Vegeta or Base Broly vs Base Vegeta or SSJG Vegeta vs Base Broly or SSJ Gogeta vs SSJ Broly, despite losing hem fights at start due to being at a disadvantage, he still keeps on coming forward and caught up like that, so the fact that Broly powered up again against SSJB Gogeta and still was losing is something interesting.

It didn't look like he was trying at all to me. Jiren was totally outmatched, that's why he got so frustrated. Goku made Jiren feel so helpless it reminded him of his past trauma of when his master died.

My point is Gogeta was putting more significant effort into his fight with Broly. The fact he chose to use a powerful attack on Broly is telling.

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#103 Posted by freesid_stf123 (529 posts) - - Show Bio

Gogeta

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#104 Posted by GodxDarkxOpal (518 posts) - - Show Bio

Yup

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#105 Edited by LeoTheGreatest (3868 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44:

It still should be pretty obvious that his speed is at that level from the scaling though.

I don’t see why he wouldn’t be able to teleport with it or send him from where he was but he chose fusion because it’s stronger than the Spirit bomb if all Jiren had to do to be considered God tier was push back that spirit bomb then Broly should be considered on that level for Goku opting for something stronger than the spirit bomb even though he had ample time to make one many times more powerful than the one at the tournament.

Well you’re trying to say his speed isn’t on par with SSB Goku and Vegeta even though he was massively above them it’s lowballing as well. And Broly was also only showing a hint then considering his LSSJ tranformation is on par with an SSJ to SSB transformation.

Through the scaling you’re using SSB Vegeta would be stronger than Beerus since he was pushing back and momentarily put down a Jiren that would already be above Beerus. And it does matter because Broly wasnt only fighting them but forced SSB vegeta and goku to escape.

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#106 Posted by Karkus (635 posts) - - Show Bio

@thewatcherking:

Apparently the novel where Freiza says Broly is the strongest person he has ever faced is canon

Why is it canon? Frieza also never faced LB Jiren.

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#108 Posted by i_like_swords (26166 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku wins. Ultra instinct appears to be on a different level from what fusion can offer, all factors made equal.

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#109 Posted by Finalbeta (121 posts) - - Show Bio

Gogeta should stomp but it won't be easy

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#110 Posted by slickfront53 (124 posts) - - Show Bio

blue gogeta win

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#111 Posted by SpeedforceUser_ (253 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: what? Gogeta SSB had Broly crying like a lil b**ch. Lmao. His face was so perfect in akin to extreme fear when Gogeta powered up and shot his Kamehameha at him at the end of their battle🤣🤣Broly got dragged terribly.

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#112 Posted by U_WOT_M8 (1334 posts) - - Show Bio

Gogeta slaps the dog shit outta him

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#113 Posted by StormShadow_X (16236 posts) - - Show Bio

Won't know for sure until they redo the arc In super

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#114 Posted by Redshift_Bacon (182 posts) - - Show Bio

MUI Goku lasts until his Time Limit but he doesn't have the Raw Power to take on Gogeta. Unless Gogeta gets him in a really good situation (Which is possible considering half of Gogeta is Goku), then Gogeta is going to have a hard time landing consecutive hits to put Goku down.

Gogeta every time. Goku needs a lot more power to compete with Gogeta. I think MUI Goku and SSB Vegito (No time restrictions on either) would be a better fight.

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#115 Edited by LuciferMornin (19 posts) - - Show Bio

Gogeta 'stomped' a character who was maybe stronger than Beerus

MUI Goku treated Jiren (Who is for sure stronger than Beerus) like he was nothing.

MUI Goku is still above Blue Fusions.

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#116 Posted by MainJP (5777 posts) - - Show Bio

Gogeta stomps the MUI goat shit out of Goku.

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#117 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18172 posts) - - Show Bio

@mainjp said:

Gogeta stomps the MUI goat shit out of Goku.

Why do you think so?

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#118 Posted by AlexTheBoss (16387 posts) - - Show Bio

@lucifermornin: @devoidruby: Goku had the advantage over Jiren, but he didn’t treat him like nothing. In the manga he pretty much lost. I would say MUI Goku definitely has the edge over Jiren, and can probably dodge better than SSB Gogeta can, but SSB Gogeta is probably stronger when it comes to raw power.

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#119 Edited by LuciferMornin (19 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss said:

@lucifermornin: @devoidruby: Goku had the advantage over Jiren, but he didn’t treat him like nothing. In the manga he pretty much lost. I would say MUI Goku definitely has the edge over Jiren, and can probably dodge better than SSB Gogeta can, but SSB Gogeta is probably stronger when it comes to raw power.

Who cares if you can't tag your OPPO? Next you'll tell me Hulk can frag the power puff girls just cause he's stronger than them. Like Vegeta told Trunks about SS3, all that power doesn't matter if you can't hit anything.

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#120 Posted by AlexTheBoss (16387 posts) - - Show Bio

@lucifermornin: What if the stronger character just makes a giant AOE attack that can't be dodged or bakes a ki barrier around them self like Broly did when he went ssj?

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#121 Posted by JDogg (691 posts) - - Show Bio

Go-get-a stomps

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#122 Posted by LuciferMornin (19 posts) - - Show Bio

@lucifermornin: What if the stronger character just makes a giant AOE attack that can't be dodged or bakes a ki barrier around them self like Broly did when he went ssj?

Giant AOEs in DB get you blitzed.

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#123 Posted by Vader3 (310 posts) - - Show Bio

Gogeta Blue, Broly is certainly above Jiren who is even with MUI Goku, and Blue Gogeta easily beat him.

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#124 Posted by AlexTheBoss (16387 posts) - - Show Bio
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#125 Posted by Bossmountain (916 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going to MUI Goku...I know it's not canon but in DBH Master ultra instinct is show to have a greater power multiplier than any fusion period.

MUI cc Goku was able to effortless stomp Cumber. a guy who early defeated SSBKKX20 Vegito and fought SSJ4 xeno Vegito to a stand still.

so according to heros MUI >>>>>>>>>Super Saiyan blue kaioken times 20 potara fusion.

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#126 Posted by LuciferMornin (19 posts) - - Show Bio

@lucifermornin: Can I see an example of that?

The only AOEs that ever make it is goku's spirit bomb because Jobbers and plot armor and what not. Just think about it.

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#127 Posted by AlexTheBoss (16387 posts) - - Show Bio

@lucifermornin: There are plenty of AOE attacks that hit their target. Piccolo's during the 23rd budokai, 2nd form Frieza casually knocking everyone back, majin Vegeta's final explosion, Broly's giant energy ball, ect.

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#128 Posted by kuartus4 (78 posts) - - Show Bio

Broly is maybe stronger than Beerus. Jiren has perhaps surpassed the state of the Gods(pre limit breaking).

Both received similar Whoopings from MUI Goku and SSB Gogeta respectively.

So power wise , MUI Goku and SSB Gogeta look to be similar. But MUI Goku has ultra instinct which should give him the advantage in a fight. See UI Omen Goku vs ssj2 Kefla. She had enough power to kill goku,yet could not land a hit on him thanks to UI.

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#129 Posted by LuciferMornin (19 posts) - - Show Bio

@lucifermornin: There are plenty of AOE attacks that hit their target. Piccolo's during the 23rd budokai, 2nd form Frieza casually knocking everyone back, majin Vegeta's final explosion, Broly's giant energy ball, ect.

You should prob get back OT. You're going off on your own rant now.

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#130 Posted by AlexTheBoss (16387 posts) - - Show Bio

@lucifermornin: It’s kind of relate to though, since I’m trying to prove Gogeta can win with an AOE attack.

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#131 Posted by Lord_Doom159 (312 posts) - - Show Bio

Gogeta in a hard fight

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#132 Posted by LuciferMornin (19 posts) - - Show Bio

@lucifermornin: It’s kind of relate to though, since I’m trying to prove Gogeta can win with an AOE attack.

But he can't cuz all the AOE attacks in DB either take too long to charge and end up in the plot armor jobbing category (think spirit bomb) or vegeta's final flash like you mentioned that they all no sold.