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#1 Posted by Yamiyodare (1254 posts) - - Show Bio

Mui Goku

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SSB Gogeta

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Who do you see winning ?

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#2 Posted by Aka_aka_aka_ak (2958 posts) - - Show Bio

SSJB Gogeta should win.

He was toying with Broly who Goku thought was probably stronger than Beerus, that places SSJB Gogeta comfortably above Beerus. MUI Goku is almost certainly above Beerus too, but I don't think there's anything to suggest that he's surpassed Beerus by as much as SSJB Gogeta has.

I personally have it as SSJB Gogeta > MUI Goku >= LB Jiren > LSSJ Broly >= Beerus.

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#3 Posted by GrandTOAA (902 posts) - - Show Bio

Why is MUI Goku >= LB Jiren when MUI Goku stomped Jiren when he got enraged.

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#4 Posted by Karkus (688 posts) - - Show Bio

Why is MUI Goku >= LB Jiren when MUI Goku stomped Jiren when he got enraged.

The reason is probably how it was only when enraged, and before the rage boost or Nakama boost, Jiren had the upper hand.

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#5 Edited by FromAPOV (84 posts) - - Show Bio

TOP MUI Goku Vs SSJB Gogeta.

Gogeta wins, but mostly because Goku can't stay in MUI for too long, Gogeta and Goku are actually very relative to each other, but Gogeta takes it, simply because Gogeta can at least stay fused for much longer, than Goku can maintain MUI. But, if we're talking about a Hypothetical DBS Broly MUI Goku, than Goku comfortably takes it, because Goku is much stronger in the movie, than in the TOP Arc.

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#7 Posted by Madscientist224 (1460 posts) - - Show Bio

MUI Goku wins.

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#8 Posted by StormShadow_X (16693 posts) - - Show Bio

Stupid

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#9 Posted by Frocharocha (6257 posts) - - Show Bio

MUI Goku, Vegito Blue had issues with Zamasu.

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#10 Edited by jashro44 (52398 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think gogeta stomped broly as badly as people say. I think this could go either way (mostly because we don't have a proper comparison). Goku was stomping jiren until he went limit breaker. Jiren prior to breaking his limits was said to be at or above the level of the gods by whis.

I kind of feel gogeta probably isn't stronger than ultra instinct. There is usually a correlation between skill and power in DB and I feel ultra instinct is sort of the peak of martial arts prowess in dragon ball.

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#11 Posted by Thorisomnipoten (61 posts) - - Show Bio

Whis > Gogeta SSj Blue >>> Goku (MUI) =/= Broly Lssj > Beerus =/= Jiren (Beyond Limits) > Jiren (Full Power) > Belmod & Other Gods of Destruction

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#12 Posted by DevoidRuby (314 posts) - - Show Bio

@frocharocha: Broly Movie Gogeta >>>>>>>>>> Black Arc Vegito

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#13 Posted by Jack_Hart (858 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku wins.

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#14 Edited by Scotchbear (2177 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Gogeta absolutely stomped broly lol

He didn’t get hit once in ssb and was smiling half the time as he effortlessly curbed broly.

Broly did nothing to ssb gogeta besides get his shit pushed in the whole time.

It was like assj vegeta vs semi perfect cell-one character mindlessly beating up the other.

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#15 Posted by Mr_Shazam0920 (4528 posts) - - Show Bio

Logically there is no way MUI Goku beats a SSB Gogeta. Come on.

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#16 Posted by WhatamIseeing (1666 posts) - - Show Bio

fusion is the last trump card in dragon ball. its only used if goku and vegeta know they cannot beat their opponent alone. By default gogeta is stronger.

Broly is stronger than Jiren when you factor in Broly has unlimited ki and his power grows at a ridiculous rate and Broly was just a fun game for Gogeta while Goku had to try his hardest and get a plot strength boost to win.

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#17 Posted by ONE_GOD (250 posts) - - Show Bio

Gogeta

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#23 Posted by GXrevs06 (4585 posts) - - Show Bio

Gogeta. Because he is Goku + Vegeta added to the mix

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#24 Edited by cooljammy18 (2347 posts) - - Show Bio

Gogeta stomps honestly. Ulta Instinct is not the end-all-be-all as Jiren proved you can still compete with enough raw power. Blame that ridiculousness on the writers, but it's there for us to consider. It makes no logical sense for Gogeta to lose this when you consider the factors really.

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#25 Posted by jashro44 (52398 posts) - - Show Bio

@scotchbear:

Gogeta absolutely stomped broly lol

He didn’t get hit once in ssb and was smiling half the time as he effortlessly curbed broly.

Gogeta smiled once during the fight because he is cocky and half Goku. He enjoys fighting. Broly and SSJB Gogeta's punch brought them back to there dimension when there hits collided and Broly did dodge some key blasts. Gogeta had the upper hand but I don't view that as a stomp.

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Broly did nothing to ssb gogeta besides get his shit pushed in the whole time.

As I said he kept up fine with Gogeta. He matched Gogeta Blue's punch at one point and only got pushed back a few feet. Gogeta had the advantage but that is hardly a stomp.

It was like assj vegeta vs semi perfect cell-one character mindlessly beating up the other.

Not even close to being like that. Ultra instinct Goku vs Pre-limit breaker Jiren was like that.

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#26 Edited by Jack_Hart (858 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@scotchbear:

Not even close to being like that. Ultra instinct Goku vs Pre-limit breaker Jiren was like that.

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Not even like that, actually. Goku held Jiren's attack in the palm of his hand and crushed it, smacked his glare attack away, easily dodged and blitzed him while not looking and moving, easily cancelled his energy attacks. Vegeta never did anything like that with Cell.

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#28 Posted by Supermanthor (18917 posts) - - Show Bio
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#29 Posted by Standardized (1313 posts) - - Show Bio

Jiren was casually stomping kaioken x 20 goku and ssjbe vegeta and Mui goku shit on him.

Mui goku > LB jiren > SSJB gogeta > Broly > Beerus.

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#30 Posted by terry2012 (9818 posts) - - Show Bio

@fromapov said:

TOP MUI Goku Vs SSJB Gogeta.

Gogeta wins, but mostly because Goku can't stay in MUI for too long, Gogeta and Goku are actually very relative to each other, but Gogeta takes it, simply because Gogeta can at least stay fused for much longer, than Goku can maintain MUI. But, if we're talking about a Hypothetical DBS Broly MUI Goku, than Goku comfortably takes it, because Goku is much stronger in the movie, than in the TOP Arc.

MUI Goku wins.

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#32 Posted by DevoidRuby (314 posts) - - Show Bio

Gogeta 'stomped' a character who was maybe stronger than Beerus

MUI Goku treated Jiren (Who is for sure stronger than Beerus) like he was nothing.

MUI Goku is still above Blue Fusions.

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#33 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18326 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

I don't think gogeta stomped broly as badly as people say. I think this could go either way (mostly because we don't have a proper comparison). Goku was stomping jiren until he went limit breaker. Jiren prior to breaking his limits was said to be at or above the level of the gods by whis.

I kind of feel gogeta probably isn't stronger than ultra instinct. There is usually a correlation between skill and power in DB and I feel ultra instinct is sort of the peak of martial arts prowess in dragon ball.

What do you mean by this? That the more skilled character is generally more powerful? Because that isn't true most of the time.

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#34 Posted by jashro44 (52398 posts) - - Show Bio

@thewatcherking: Yes. Aside from Caulifla and Kale who are exceptions to the rule.

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#35 Posted by DevoidRuby (314 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Nappa was stronger than the Z-Fighters despite having no skill to speak of, the Androids didn't show much skill afaik, Frieza had no real fighting skill, Buu had no real fighting skill, Broly was literally a mindless brute against Goku and Vegeta and he stomped them.

Skill very rarely even matters in Dragon Ball Z and onwards, usually it comes down to beam struggles and who's stronger.

Ultra Instinct was the exception honestly.

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#36 Edited by TheWatcherKing (18326 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@thewatcherking: Yes. Aside from Caulifla and Kale who are exceptions to the rule.

Android 18 wasn't more skilled than Vegeta when they first fought yet she destroyed him.

17 was equal to Piccolo and definitely wasn't more skilled.

Future Gohan would have been more skilled than the andriods in his future yet wasn't as powerful as them.

Base Gotenks lost to fat Buu despite both Goten and trunks being more skilled than Fat Buu.

Freiza had never trained a day in his life (prior to super) and stalemated Piccolo in his second form, stomped him in his third, and easily stomped Vegeta in his final form. He was also less skilled than base goku yet more powerful.

I feel like I am missing something about your argument but if it's what I think it is then I disagree.

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#37 Posted by jashro44 (52398 posts) - - Show Bio

@devoidruby:

Nappa was stronger than the Z-Fighters despite having no skill to speak of,

What makes you say Nappa has no skill to speak of? The sayajin's are usually described as a warrior race.

the Androids didn't show much skill afaik,

This is fair all though the androids didn't get as strong as they did through training or battle but artificial enhancements. I suppose other fighters who got stronger through artificial enhancements would also be the exception.

Frieza had no real fighting skill,

Even though Frieza never trained a day in his life prior to resurrection of F he also referred to himself as a fighting prodigy. Frieza was just naturally skilled.

Buu had no real fighting skill,

Buu was a mindless and his magic did help him but he also has moments where he was copying Goku's techniques and learning them instantly.

Broly was literally a mindless brute against Goku and Vegeta and he stomped them.

Broly was learning how to fight while fighting them.

Skill very rarely even matters in Dragon Ball Z and onwards, usually it comes down to beam struggles and who's stronger.

Ultra Instinct was the exception honestly.

I disagree. The Gods are trained on how to fight by the angels. That tells me that even the gods learn martial arts to get stronger. Also when Goku and Jiren first fought the Gods specifically commented they both must have done intense training to get that strong, especially Jiren (who was stronger at the time). During the tournament of destroyers arc Goku thought Monnaka was strong because he believed he perfectly read the barriers movements and did not need to dodge. Jiren was also hyped up based on perfectly reading the movements of those blocks. Hit gets more powerful as he fights and as he learns to fight his fighting stance also changes.

@thewatcherking You typed your comment while I was responding to devoidruby so to avoid rehashing I'll just type some quick bullets. For more details see my response to him:

  • I admit the androids are an exception but that is because they are enhanced through artificial means. They didn't get stronger by training.
  • Buu actually has displayed the ability to learn while he fights and copy techniques instantly.
  • Frieza never trained a day in his life but he also referred to himself as a fighting prodigy. This tells me that frieza was naturally skilled.

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#38 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18326 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44:

Frieza never trained a day in his life but he also referred to himself as a fighting prodigy. This tells me that frieza was naturally skilled.

I don't recall that, I only recall AT saying he and his dad were mutations(abnormally strong)among their race. Regardless he wasn't as skilled as Goku as was evident in their fight.

Buu actually has displayed the ability to learn while he fights and copy techniques instantly.

That doesn't debunk what I said, fat buu learning to put his hands together and fire a ki blast while saying kamehameha isn't impressive( the move hasn't been special since Dragon Ball), Gotenks would logically be more skilled yet he got stomped.

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#39 Posted by jashro44 (52398 posts) - - Show Bio

@thewatcherking:

I don't recall that, I only recall AT saying he and his dad were mutations(abnormally strong)among their race. Regardless he wasn't as skilled as Goku as was evident in their fight.

I don't see how it was evident in there fight. You can't really judge things off of choreography because a lot of the martial arts in dragon ball is imaginary. In Dragon Ball Goku had a fighting stance that looked like it had every opening exposed, but it actually left no openings.

That doesn't debunk what I said, fat buu learning to put his hands together and fire a ki blast while saying kamehameha isn't impressive( the move hasn't been special since Dragon Ball), Gotenks would logically be more skilled yet he got stomped.

The kamehameha is considered a technique in dragon ball. The move not being special since dragon ball is irrelevant, regardless kid buu also copied Goku's instant transmission. But even with the kamehameha it took Roshi 50 years to learn.

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#40 Posted by hurricanefunnel (2151 posts) - - Show Bio

mui goku b/c it was the ascended form of ssb

mui goku wins

suggestion: make a different match this battle has been done before

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#41 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18326 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44:

The kamehameha is considered a technique in dragon ball. The move not being special since dragon ball is irrelevant, regardless kid buu also copied Goku's instant transmission. But even with the kamehameha it took Roshi 50 years to learn.

I am aware but that was back when firing ki blasts wasn't too common, people rarely did that early on in Dragon Ball. Regardless, Goku knew he and Vegeta were no match for Super Buu despite Buu's best feats being copying techniques after seeing them once, something Goku has done since Dragon ball.

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#42 Posted by jashro44 (52398 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44:

The kamehameha is considered a technique in dragon ball. The move not being special since dragon ball is irrelevant, regardless kid buu also copied Goku's instant transmission. But even with the kamehameha it took Roshi 50 years to learn.

I am aware but that was back when firing ki blasts wasn't too common, people rarely did that early on in Dragon Ball. Regardless, Goku knew he and Vegeta were no match for Super Buu despite Buu's best feats being copying techniques after seeing them once, something Goku has done since Dragon ball.

I don't see your point. It still shows Buu's fighting ability to be able to learn techniques on the fly. It doesn't matter if the kamehameha is rare or not.

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#43 Edited by TheWatcherKing (18326 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:
@thewatcherking said:

@jashro44:

The kamehameha is considered a technique in dragon ball. The move not being special since dragon ball is irrelevant, regardless kid buu also copied Goku's instant transmission. But even with the kamehameha it took Roshi 50 years to learn.

I am aware but that was back when firing ki blasts wasn't too common, people rarely did that early on in Dragon Ball. Regardless, Goku knew he and Vegeta were no match for Super Buu despite Buu's best feats being copying techniques after seeing them once, something Goku has done since Dragon ball.

I don't see your point. It still shows Buu's fighting ability to be able to learn techniques on the fly. It doesn't matter if the kamehameha is rare or not.

That's not what I meant, but regardless what I said about Buu's best feats (copying techniques upon seeing them) being something Kid Goku has done and Super Buu being superior to Vegeta and Goku remains undisputed.

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#44 Posted by jashro44 (52398 posts) - - Show Bio

@thewatcherking: Well its hard to quantify how much of Buu's feats are skill because Buu also has magic powers which is part of the reason why he is so difficult. I don't think this really disproves there being a correlation between skill and power in dragon ball. There are still many examples of people training in dragon ball to achieve greater power.

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#45 Edited by Scotchbear (2177 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: what did broly do that made it not a stomp?

When one character gets dominated the whole time, and never has any moments where it looks like he has a chance, that’s a stomp.

Gogeta was constantly pounding on broly, broly was completely powerless against him. He got stomped.

Have you watched ssb gogeta vs broly?? Because it was a stomp.

Gogeta casually dodges all of brolys attacks and doesn’t miss an attack

Look at it statistics wise and it clearly becomes a stomp

Gogeta attack accuracy-100%

Broly attack accuracy-0%

When an opponent lands all of their attacks on you and you don’t hit them once, that’s a stomp.

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#46 Posted by TheWatcherKing (18326 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@thewatcherking: Well its hard to quantify how much of Buu's feats are skill because Buu also has magic powers which is part of the reason why he is so difficult. I don't think this really disproves there being a correlation between skill and power in dragon ball. There are still many examples of people training in dragon ball to achieve greater power.

If that's what you meant then I agree, I just don't think everyone who is more skilled than their opponent is automatically more powerful.

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#47 Posted by jashro44 (52398 posts) - - Show Bio

@scotchbear: Gogeta didn't land all his strikes. At one point we see Broly dodge some ki blasts, his fist collides with ssj blue gogeta, he blocks a kick, and its hard to tell with the quality of footage available but I think he does land a kick. At the very least he knocks Gogeta back when Gogeta blocked a punch.

It didn't look like Gogeta was putting casual effort to me. If Gogeta was so much stronger than Broly than I don't see why there punches collided resulted in them shattering the dimensional barrier.

@jashro44 said:

@thewatcherking: Well its hard to quantify how much of Buu's feats are skill because Buu also has magic powers which is part of the reason why he is so difficult. I don't think this really disproves there being a correlation between skill and power in dragon ball. There are still many examples of people training in dragon ball to achieve greater power.

If that's what you meant then I agree, I just don't think everyone who is more skilled than their opponent is automatically more powerful.

Well in the case here I think it does. Sayajins get stronger through training rather than artificial enhancements.

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#48 Posted by Scotchbear (2177 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: broly only ever tagged ssj gogeta

Ssb gogeta is not hit by broly a single time.

Broly also never dodged a single attack from ssb gogeta to my knowledge.

Ssj gogeta and ssj broly were able to break into the dimension, so ssb gogeta surely didn’t have to put that much effort into it as ssb.

Broly only clashes with gogeta once when they shatter the dimension, the other collision results in broly getting thrown back from being unable to match gogeta.

After ssb gogeta does his fist move and powers up with the aura he does bad bad things to broly and finishes him off with 1 minute movie time.

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#49 Posted by jashro44 (52398 posts) - - Show Bio

@scotchbear: The hit is hard to see but Broly definitely dodged some KI blasts.

Ssj gogeta and ssj broly were able to break into the dimension, so ssb gogeta surely didn’t have to put that much effort into it as ssb.

Broly only clashes with gogeta once when they shatter the dimension, the other collision results in broly getting thrown back from being unable to match gogeta.

He was thrown back a few feet. If Gogeta were so much stronger Broly would be dead.

After ssb gogeta does his fist move and powers up with the aura he does bad bad things to broly and finishes him off with 1 minute movie time.

Your using a lot of hyperbolic language and platitudes to describe the fight.

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#50 Posted by Scotchbear (2177 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I’m starting to think you haven’t watched the fight more than once in really bad quality.

I’ve watched the fight over 50 times. It was a stomp.

It was not a few feet. He got launched back so far gogeta had to literally chase after his flying body to hit him.

Broly never once hit ssb gogeta, not a single time.

How can you say that a character who failed to hit his opponent once while also getting tagged and bodied within 5 minutes on screen time didn’t get stomped?

I can post gifs if you’d like but idk if they are allowed on the site since the movie is still in theaters.