MUI Goku vs SSB Gogeta

Gogeta slapped Broly into a coma far easier then what MUI did to FP Jiren, and Broly was => Beerus, unlike Jiren FP who was still destroyer level.

@u_wot_m8: i can understand this kind of reasoning. You should be aware that I am not arguing against his conclusion, but against his reasoning.

Gogeta

Goku wins, Gogeta is leagues cooler though.

Gogeta stomps Mui goku

@zoldycklogic: excuse me? Kefla is the fusion of two girls who couldn't beat SsJ2 Goku while fighting together,ssj3 Goku negged their attacks with just his aura and SSG Goku tooled them

Base kefla tooled SSG Goku

SSJ2 Kefla had enough power to oneshot 2nd UI Goku

Gogeta is the fusion of two SSJBS

You think he needs an equal form to deck MUI Goku?

I don't think you get the absurd multipliers that fusion gives

@jaakor: you do realize this is not what I am arguing against right?

When you reason that the multiplier is enough to make Gogeta far surpass MUI. It should be a valid argument. But when arguing that Gogeta > MUI since Gogeta is a fusion between Goku and Gogeta, and MUI is only Goku.... this is not a good point.

I hope you know that I agree that Gogeta is above MUI. I was just pointing out the flaw in the previous argument

@drpepperman: That seems to have been retconned in this movie. If you’re reasoning off of Gotenks, you should know Super scaling is broken.

Stalemate

Gogeta if he uses kkx20

I find Goku's statement about Broly being perhaps stronger than Beerus weak, because Goku has never seen Beerus at his max. Even in his fight with Beerus he was wrong about his power on multiple ocassions and Beerus's power keeps getting pushed further and further. I think Gogeta and Mui are still pretty close to eachother in power, neither of them is stomping eachother.

Gogeta will beat ToP MUI Goku, It’s Current MUI I’m not sure about.

@nibbit: Toriyama wouldn't have put that in there if it wasn't true.

Well, here we.(before anything else, i will not count both GT and heroes, since none of them affect directly the main timeline. In other words, none seen on heroes can be considered canon. As a exemple kanba ssj matching vegetto blue , and both mui goku and xeno vegetto ssj4defeating kanba ssj 3)

the movie was the manga continuity. Which why goku didnt use kaioken or vegeta didnt use ssbe. Because they never did.

Now as for gogeta vs goku ui, well. That will kinda depends which ui we are talking about. While goku on manga could keep up and push jiren, he still got knocked out of the form by him. While on anime, goku won agaist jiren.

As for gogeta, his base form , just like vegetto's is already stronger than ssb fullpower of goku and vegeta. A proof of that when vegetto base destroyed half of merged zamasu's body on the manga, considering this zamasu was as strong as a Full ssb.

Now about the "broly being the strongest foe so far", is true he is really powerful. But making him both stronger than beerus and jiren is a little too much for now. Goku did say at the end of the movie that broly could be stronger than beerus, while goku has never seen beerus's fullpower.

And for some fans that didnt understand this yet.. Ui isnt perfect. If ur fighting a opponent stronger than you, even if ur using ui, you will likely lose. Just like when jiren FP pushed goku ui and overcame him, even tho for a short period of time. The user cant dodge all attacks if they are too fast. Im applying this to both anime manga. While on anime goku still could keep the form, on manga jiren did knock goku out of the form.

On my view, Gogeta Wins. But not by one shooting. Goku ui sure has great feats, as defeating jiren. However, both goku and vegeta from the movie are consider stronger than they were on t.o.p. and gogeta still have blue fullpower. Which is basicly a constant 50x. While it damages the body.

If agaist anime goku ui, would be hard.

If agaist manga, not really.

Gogeta

Is there an actual multiplier for the fusion dance?

OT: MUI Goku

Both lose to 616 Thing (this is actually true)

OT: MUI Goku, multiversal level destruction at minimum apparently.... And untargetable. And can withstand blasts that would destroy an infinite amount of universes.

I heard that from SethTheProgrammer and Chuck, so it must be true..

MUI takes it of right now. Ultra Instinct is on a whole new level of power. Gogeta cannot handle.

B. Gogeta stomps.

Anime: MUI Goku stomps. SSB Gogeta is simply inferior in every way.

Manga: Much closer, but I'll side with MUI Goku still.

MUI wins

Sorry but MUI had way better feats I think...maybe some of you are too hyped from that new Broly movie that you need to go back and see how impressive MUI Goku was against Jiren to recall events again

I’ll end this debate for everyone.

First of all if you want to talk about a battle then you must categorize a fight like this into pure power, speed, and skill. Now the whole thing about ui is that it’s supposed to be a form where the mind and body become one so that you don’t even have to think about your movements making them virtually instant. As far as power goes it’s no clear evidence how much this boosts the users strength or ki however when goku used his kamehameha in the anime it did appear that he didn’t have full control over it. Either way goku has only used mui in the top against jiren and as we know it takes time to master new forms as there is a clear difference with the control of a mere super saiyan transformation as to when Goku first used it. As far as skill goes it’s debatable if goku with full strength could beat jiren at full strength with mui due to the fact jiren was keeping up with goku at no point did goku really just have jiren on the ropes while they were fighting even though he did land attacks he never landed a crippling or incapacitating blow. That said you can make a better argument that they are pretty even overall if not one having better attributes in some areas which I would say goku had more speed as to jiren power. It’s debatable if mui or jiren could beat beerus and this is why goku says Broly might be stronger than beerus and you could make the argument that him making that statement so excitedly could mean he has never met an opponent of that power thus possibly implying he’s stronger than jiren. Now it’s stated that jiren could defeat belmod his own god of destruction which must be true considering toppo was candidate for destruction god while jiren was leagues above him in every aspect. However it’s clear also that the destruction gods have an order from strongest to weakest and we can’t say for certain where belmod ranks on that scale and it could be that he just simply isn’t that strong once again there are a lot of specific and crucial details we don’t know. So just because jiren beats him doesn’t necessarily mean he can beat beerus that argument would be like saying an opponent can beat vegeta so he should be able to beat goku, yes it’s a possibility but not a guarantee there are still many factors to consider.

Anyways gogeta blue now just off the gate I would have to say gogeta blue has more experience simply because this is not necessarily a new form even though the fight with janemba isn’t technically cannon the concept of fusing isn’t new neither is ssb. Now the whole thing about fusion is it’s a last resort when there are no more options an option goku even almost chose where he could’ve been permanently bonded to Hercule just so he could have a chance at saving earth (fortunately vegeta came in time). Fusion by either dance or potara significantly boosts power and while we can’t say for certain how much it is definitely more than a 2x. Now before I go more in depth I must say that multipliers are the dumbest thing fans ever came up with and they aren’t a fact so it pointless trying to reason with such an idea because you can’t really measure power in dragonball it’s not very consistent. Anyways in terms of speed I can’t imagine ssb gogeta being too much slower than mui realistically because jiren wasn’t much slower and you can debate that if he had full strength if at all so if anything MUI Gokus speed and ssb gogeta are easily on part and you can make an argument that mui is faster which I’m for it but if you think mui wouldn’t be able to be touched by gogeta you are a fool and your opinion isn’t even worth hearing. As far as pure power goes I would have to say we saw more feats from gogeta. Not because of the dimension rip but simply because of his attacks in general. Nearly all of these attacks are moves capable of destroying any enemy up til this point in the timeline by themselves. That is also why I commend Broly despite what anyone thinks he took multiple of these devastating attacks without ever as much as bending a knee he actually got stronger and is the only enemy to get stronger after being hit by a enemies attack meant to kill him. Goku got hit with his own spirit bomb not actually by jirens attack which I think the energy from the universe from the spirit bomb actually is what unlocked ui within goku. Anyways you can make an argument that ssb gogeta isn’t strong due to the fact he initially didn’t ( notice I said didn’t not couldn’t) cripple Broly however ssb gogeta realized Broly would only get stronger he didn’t even want to kill Broly but he realized he was going to have to and that last kamehameha was definitely going to be the one that did it. And people will knock Brolys power due to his lack of skill. Yes Broly toyed with freeza for an hour but consider this freeza is a wayyy more adept fighter than Broly as far as skill is concerned as you could see with even Roshi lasting as long as he did in the tournament of power skill can make a difference but with the way Brolys power continually escalated gogeta knew his full power kamehameha could stop him.

Either way mui wouldn’t be able to last long enough to beat ssb gogeta. It’s not enough information to support mui in anyway being stronger than fusion. Fusion is a form used to fight immortal gods and demons with limitless regenerative abilities and foes like Broly with limitless strength. It’s not really meant to be a compared to a single transformation. MUI apparently takes a toll on goku similar to how kaioken does thus even if goku did truly have full control over the form in a way as to his normal ssj form it would wear him down and is even stated to drain the users life force so it’s basically killing you for a quick boost. You can make arguments about different attributes but you can’t say that either could just demolish the other on terms of any of them. Remember Burter was supposed to be one of the fastest in the galaxy but what did that do for him? Speed is nothing in dragon ball even though mui packs a little more punch goku can’t even control the extent of its power as seen with the kamehameha. Realistically this fight has to go to ssb gogeta and in my opinion easily if you put everyone in base form who wins? Gogeta> jiren > beerus > broly > goku . It only makes sense and that’s even debatable because jiren might be on par with base gogeta.

goku

Goku

The poll says it all

Even if I had perfect reflects there's no way I could dodge Superman's punches... just take that as my answer

All current ? UI Goku, but post ToP Gogeta Blue destroy UI Goku from ToP

People saying MUI Goku performed better against Jiren haven’t watched Super in months.

MUI Goku barely beat Jiren and only won due to getting a friendship buff at the end. Even then they were constantly tagging and injuring each other.

SSJB Gogeta casually stomped Broly with a smirk on his face without getting hit a single time.

Broly is Atleast in a similar ball park to Jiren.

Gogeta after a decent fight

I feel like this is a stalemate

Gogeta slaps.

gogeta blue absolutely DOMINATE ultra instinct goku to a coma.

like literally you mui goku fans take it WAYYY to FAR.

first of base gogeta is way stronger blue goku. evidence is in the broly movie ( i dont wanna explain this).

lets just lowball say they are equal gogeta base= ssb goku

super sayian gogeta is 50x stronger than ssb goku.

super sayian 3 is 400x ssb goku

now super sayian god gogeta is on a different level. the power super sayian god is on whole different level then the regular. being a multi solar buster to a universe is a MASSIVE multiplier. at least over 100 million.

gogeta god = 40 billion ssb goku. there is no way in hell ultra instinct is that much of a power boost

gogeta god ( raw power) >>>>> mui goku

gogeta blue is 50x god so that makes gogeta blue= 2 trillion ssb goku. the power difference between this two is too great. I dont want to start how strong goku got after tournament of power. and gokus dodge hacks wont be that much of a problem since jiren was able to hit goku several times in ultra instinct and gogeta is without a doubt a better skilled fighter than jiren ( goku and vegeta skills combined). his strike pattern is unpredictable.

it was stated in the V jump that ultra instinct goku ( not omen) MAY have surpassed beerus in ep 129. its most likely preferring to the mui goku when he blitzed jiren. and shin stated that vegito blue from FT already surpassed beerus. it makes sense that fusion is a way bigger boost in power than what ultra instinct gives you. and if you think about it. gogeta blue UTTERLY STOMPED someone stronger than beerus or equal with little to no effort.

also in ep 122 and 123. goku and vegeta super sayian blue were giving jiren little trouble. and in 123 jiren kinda struggled to fight ssbkk20 goku and ssbe vegeta. i am not saying that he was losing but goku and vegeta were giving jiren some of a fight. and as you know when the fusies gets purely dominated in battle (example: goku vegeta vs buhaan, kale and caulifla vs ssg goku, goku and vegeta vs omega and etc), then they fuse they dominate the battle. so basically if vegito blue were in the tournament of power he would have easily knock jiren off the stage.

@devoidruby: @ouroborik: If Broly fights Jiren and Jiren doesn't finish him quickly there's a heavy chance Broly will adapt and become stronger than Jiren

MUI Goku

Still Gogeta.

MUI Goku. Why is this a debate?

MUI shits on him.

@achievedhero: I agree UI Goku wins but why don’t you think it’s debatable?

Beerus (no limit bar Hype)=>Gogeta (Above Limit KK/BE)>SSB Gogeta=>MUI Goku=>LB Jiren>LSSJ Broly=>FP Jiren>=Beerus(standard). I feel like Beerus has a secret edge on this guys but it’s only hype no one really knows what he is really capable of. what I do know is that Broly/FP Jiren/Beerus are comparable in the same level as to Gogeta Blue/MUI Goku/LB Jiren with a small chance for Beerus to have a perfect UI he keeps under raps or something else that puts him above them but it’s only hype.

@oreoghoul: Because MUI is the pedestal for dragon ball. That's why they come up with an excuse that he can't use it at will. Saying SSB Gogeta is stronger is a silly statement but i understand why people say it.

Going with MUI Goku.

MUI.

Give Gogeta KK Bost and i still pick MUI.

goku vs jiren and gogeta vs broly should make this a obviouse match.

but alot of ppl lack 1+1 here.

Do people not know simple scaling? Mui is definitely above.

Yeh Gogeta kinda crubs here

Goku slaps