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Edited 11 days, 5 hours ago

Poll: Mr. Negative VS Kamijou Touma (6 votes)

Li 17%
Touma 67%
Let me see the poll results please.... 17%

Martin Li A.K.A. Mister Negative

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Kamijou Touma (上条 当麻) From Toaru Majutsu No Index

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Round 1

  • Random Encounter
  • In character
  • Li is armed with a katana
  • Touma is armed with his fist
  • Earth 616 Li
  • Pre New Testament Touma
  • Win by any means necessary
The fight takes place in Academy City's streets. Fighters start 25 ft. apart visible from each other's sights.
The fight takes place in Academy City's streets. Fighters start 25 ft. apart visible from each other's sights.

Round 2

  • The same conditions as Round 1 except fighters start 5 ft. apart and Mister Negative not armed with a weapon.

Round 3

  • The same conditions as Round 1 except if fight exceeds 3 minutes; Anti-Skill take Mister Negative in.

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#1 Edited by Ultimate_Knight (8908 posts) - - Show Bio

EDIT:

Mr. Negative can have Marvel's Spider-Man (PS4) showings all rounds.

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#2 Posted by Khael (13260 posts) - - Show Bio

Feats for Mr. Negative?

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#3 Edited by Jeepeh (5968 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah gonna need some Mr Negative feats. The only thing I know about him is that he's responsible for Anti Venom being a thing and what was seen in the Spiderman trailer.

@ultimate_knight said:

-Reserved post for rule update in case of mismatch-

Well, someone's got this down to a science.

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#4 Posted by Ultimate_Knight (8908 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeepeh said:

@ultimate_knight said:

-Reserved post for rule update in case of mismatch-

Well, someone's got this down to a science.

Huh?

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#5 Edited by Jeepeh (5968 posts) - - Show Bio
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#6 Edited by Ultimate_Knight (8908 posts) - - Show Bio

@khael: @jeepeh:

Let us see...

Powers (from Marvel Wikia) WARNING: Wall of text.

As a result of his exposure to the drug D-Lite, Mister Negative can generate and control the Darkforce & Lightforce, manifesting it as the photographic negative of black or white electrical energy. He uses this unique form of Darkforce for a variety of purposes, including but not limited to:

Limited Shapeshifting: He uses this energy to change from Martin Li into Mister Negative. His Mr. Negative persona possesses an undefined level of superhuman physical characteristics, likely due to the Darkforce & Lightforce energy. Mr. Negative displayed superhuman strength, sending Spider-Man flying through two buildings with a single blow.[20] Mr. Negative also demonstrated superhuman reflexes during his battle with the Hood, dodging bullets or cutting them in half with his sword.

Object Empowerment: Mr. Negative's touch can imbue objects (most often his dagger and other blades) with Darkforce, making them stronger and more durable. An empowered object takes on the appearance of a photographic negative and glows with energy.

Person Empowerment/Healing Touch: Mr. Negative's touch can imbue people with energy for various effects. Martin Li's touch has healing properties: he cured Eddie Brock's cancer and a subsequent touch charged the remnants of the Venom symbiote in Brock's body with the power to bond with Brock's leukocytes and create another symbiote, a hero named "Anti-Venom. (Since Martin Li's healing touch was the source of creating Anti-Venom's suit, Mister Negative's touch can reverse that ability which disables Anti-Venom's healing powers until Anti-Venom is free from Mister Negative's energy.) Aside from Brock, homeless people who've stayed at Martin Li's shelter have rapidly recovered from any illnesses or injuries they suffered from. It is possible that healing touch is Martin Li's opposite of Mr. Negative's corrupting touch.

Person Empowerment/Corrupting Touch: Mr. Negative's touch has brainwashing and corrupting properties: his touch can change people's personalities and temperaments and make them serve his interests. A corrupted person's clothes change in appearance to photographic negatives, and all who are corrupted praise their new master with proclamations like "Mr. Negative was never born, so he is ever living," or "He is attached to nothing, thus he is one with all." Negative's touch inverts the morals and personalities of his victims; further his corruption is more effective the more good the affected person was prior to conversion: White Dragon, a villain himself, gained vastly increased stamina and endurance, but was still easily dispatched. (Interestingly, his clothes reverted to normal once he was killed.) Conversely, Spider-Man, a hero in every respect, was corrupted into a spiteful and angry villain, despising every value he held dear (even his Uncle Ben's memory) and was no longer above killing. However, individuals can reverse the corruption when confronted with intense emotional turmoil. Spider-Man is able to break the hold his dark side has over him when he is on the verge of killing Betty Brant, as he remembers the love he once had for her upon getting close. Aunt May after seeing Peter clearly suffering mentally feels guilty and undergoes an intense mind battle, breaking the corruption.

Mr. Negative's corrupting touch was ineffective against the Hood; Mr. Negative stated that this was because the Hood's soul belongs to a being even darker than he is.

Respect Threads

Dragon Ball Z Forum

KMC Forum (It says you "need to log in" to see images.)

VK.com (I saw one scan that is English. Everything else is Russian).

Unfinished C.A.V. (It does have some info worth taking in.)

Bonus

Shoot some energy blast
Shoot some energy blast

Though it is not from the comic, but the game. I will consider the showing for balance's sake incase.

@jeepeh said:
@ultimate_knight said:
@jeepeh said:

@ultimate_knight said:

-Reserved post for rule update in case of mismatch-

Well, someone's got this down to a science.

Huh?

I was complimenting your foresight.

Okay. Thank you.

Save

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#7 Posted by Khael (13260 posts) - - Show Bio

Imagine Breaker seems to be superior, not sure if Touma can beat him in H2H though.

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#8 Posted by Ultimate_Knight (8908 posts) - - Show Bio
@khael said:

Imagine Breaker seems to be superior

Sure; but as far as I know, only compressed in one hand.

Li's powers are more versatile and cover his entire body.

There are advantages and disadvantages for both.

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#9 Posted by Khael (13260 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultimate_knight: Touma can block range attacks easily and in a close combat, Mr. Negative won't even be able to use his power anymore once he gets tagged so It doesn't really matter if he can use his whole body.

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#10 Posted by Ultimate_Knight (8908 posts) - - Show Bio

@khael said:

@ultimate_knight: Touma can block range attacks easily and in a close combat, Mr. Negative won't even be able to use his power anymore once he gets tagged so It doesn't really matter if he can use his whole body.

The same applies with Touma if Li tags him with a hit not just limited with a right fist.

What am I doing in my own thread?

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#11 Posted by Helloman (7201 posts) - - Show Bio

From what I know of Touma and the Magical index series, Touma wins.

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#12 Posted by Khael (13260 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultimate_knight: Touma's power would still work if he gets tagged since Imagine Breaker is more powerful. Especially in round one, if Li cut Touma's right arm, it'd be over for Li. Now the question is... who is better in combat? I don't know since I haven't read any issues with DM in it.

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#13 Posted by Jeepeh (5968 posts) - - Show Bio

It's been a while since I read volume 3 of ACMI, but Touma, if I recall, using a combination of his own "spider sense", reflexes, and body language reading, has blocked lightning attacks (moving at the speed of light) before. I doubt Li can tag Touma easily.

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#14 Edited by Ultimate_Knight (8908 posts) - - Show Bio

Everyone seems to be siding with Touma. Being tempted to update rules for balance sake.

Darn it. I am debating in own thread.

@khael said:

@ultimate_knight: Touma's power would still work if he gets tagged since Imagine Breaker is more powerful. Especially in round one, if Li cut Touma's right arm, it'd be over for Li. Now the question is... who is better in combat? I don't know since I haven't read any issues with DM in it.

Of course it will work but if Touma hits him with but his right fist, it will be the equivalent of hitting an iron wall.

Li's touch will not work, but a hit from him will certainly get him wrecked.

Li inexplicably amputate right arm = billion or more dollar property and life damage. Agree bye bye for Chinese man and victory for Kamijou-chan, but there are other limbs worth amputating.

Not just limited to sword, but a Darkforce powered fist and leg mitigate risk of unleashing dragon looking beast.

Who is better in hand to hand? Not too sure as of now. That is one of the reasons why I made this thread.

But based on known information; he has dominated the likes of Spider-Man, Anti-Venom, Shang-Chi, Jackpot, and fought against The Hood (Some info here) so he is dangerous.

Personally; I would say he mainly dominated them because of overwhelming stats (which Touma can cancel IF his right hand makes contact). Not to say he does not have fighting skill at all. He carries a weapon (which to me implies a level of skill) and his fight against The Hood sheds some light.

Like the M.C.U. super soldiers; they often get the upper hand in close quarters combat because they can barely be hurt and one or two no hold barred strikes are enough to take enemies out.

If you think the fight is a mismatch; what do I do for more balance?

@jeepeh said:

It's been a while since I read volume 3 of ACMI, but Touma, if I recall, using a combination of his own "spider sense", reflexes, and body language reading, has blocked lightning attacks (moving at the speed of light) before. I doubt Li can tag Touma easily.

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The f***?!

He has precognition?! Does not seem like something he had from the start. I am supposedly aware he received upgrades but when?

For argument sake; reacting to something different from dodging something.

You become aware something is coming = react

Move yourself to prevent getting hit = dodge

From the fan translated stuff I read, there have been parts wherein an attack comes too fast and all he can do is raise his fist (often riskier than dodging).

You need sufficient physical stats to dodge something very fast. Aiming fist while in fighting stance at incoming attack often faster than twisting individual body part or whole body part or moving legs to dodge.

Spider-Man (someone Li has tagged a few times) I would say way better evader than Touma.

On top of Spider-Sense, better speed, better agility, and better mobility.

If you think the fight is a mismatch; what do I do for more balance?

Save

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#15 Edited by Jeepeh (5968 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultimate_knight:

The f***?!

He has precognition?! Does not seem like something he had from the start. I am supposedly aware he received upgrades but when?

Apparently it kinda happened somewhere along the way as he continued to fight so many high powered beings. It's more like an unconscious reaction thing by reading an enemy's body language. In actuality, an enemy with speed or flight is his greatest weakness, but he's stopped lightspeed attacks before. Your power list that you posted didn't mention anything about super-speed, so countering his beams should be a snap.

For argument sake; reacting to something different from dodging something.

You become aware something is coming = react

Move yourself to prevent getting hit = dodge

From the fan translated stuff I read, there have been parts wherein an attack comes too fast and all he can do is raise his fist (often riskier than dodging).

You need sufficient physical stats to dodge something very fast. Aiming fist while in fighting stance at incoming attack often faster than twisting individual body part or whole body part or moving legs to dodge.

Why would he want to do that? Raising his fist is all it takes. I didn't say he could dodge. I said he could block. That's all he wants to do, that's all he has to do. Whatever comes into contact with Touma's hand will have all supernatural essence and augmentation negated, and energy blasts that hit him will be dispelled. Li's best bet would be to use his Katana. But all that's likely to do is cut off Touma's hand... which....

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If you think the fight is a mismatch; what do I do for more balance?

Not necessarily a mismatch, but Touma's ability is just designed to deal with supernatural and abnormal powers such as Li's. There's always a chance Li could get lucky and nail an actual hit, but unless Touma's feeling generous or sorry for him or trying to help him as with Misaka, I find it unlikely. Touma's a difficult case. You either put supernatural entities against him, in which case he stomps, or you put physical entities against him, in which case he will be stomped. Even if Anti-Venom < Li (I don't know if that's true or not), Touma could curbstomp Li, but Anti-Venom would eat Touma alive, because Anti-Venom's a physical entity with no actual supernatural source to his abilities, therefore Touma's ability would be useless.

The Railgun is a move that fires a coin at three times the speed of sound.

"Kamijou used his right hand to block every single one of Mikoto‘s attacks, including the Railgun, a whip sword formed by iron sand, a powerful electromagnetic pulse that targets the organs, and the final move: real lightning." (To Aru Majutsu no Index Volume 1, pag 48)

"The instant Kamijou instinctively put himself on guard, a pale lightning bolt jumped out from the girl's forehead, and quickly rushed at Kamijou. Though he couldn't possibly have reacted fast enough by eyesight alone, Kamijou's body instinctively moved even before he was hit. It was as if his body, having been repeatedly attacked by lightning, knew from experience exactly how to respond. As if shaking off a winged insect in front of his eyes, Kamijou swung his right hand horizontally like a backfist." (To Aru Majutsu no Index Volume 3, pag 6)

Misaka's lightning attack is lightspeed: "She released a lightning spear from it. The spear of purple electricity moved forward at the speed of light and held enough destructive force to knock someone unconscious." (To Aru Majutsu no Index Volume 3, pag 58)

"The steel rail bent into a shallow V-shape and flew straight for Kamijou like a bullet. [...] Kamijou frantically rolled and jumped away from its path." (To Aru Majutsu no Index Volume 3, pag 157)

Manages to dodge bullet like steel rails while severly weakened by Misaka attacks and out of stamina. Also the distance between Accelerator and Touma was 10 m-ish

"Kamijou Touma and Accelerator were both standing on that level surface with nowhere to hide. They were about 10 meters apart." (To Aru Majutsu no Index Volume 3, pag 156)

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#16 Posted by Ultimate_Knight (8908 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeepeh: Good point. Thank you for wrecking and enlightening me with your knowledge. Will update rule to add PS4 game stuff which hopefully will be impressive.