Like i said before this not a fight controled by writers. Saying that he can increase physicals trength is like saying that someone can run when they can't walk. "Character morals have nothing to do with writers. That would be PIS.
Mr. Majestic Vs Martian Manhunter
@Silver2467: I'm actually curious about Majestic and this thread seems to have some intelligent discussion. Good opportunity to learn. So what I've seen from scans (I've never read a book with him in it):
Strength
He can move planets/catch comets rather easily, so roughly superboy prime level strength.
In this area he beats Martian Manhunter, but as seen in fights with Superboy Prime, Martian Manhunter level characters can at least consistently engage characters of that strength level and with J'onn's other abilities, I don't think close combat gives Majestic an instantaneous victory.
I don't know if it's very important, but about J'onn augmenting his strength by increasing his size:
I don't remember if he says it explicitly, but they do portray him as being outmatched in strength prior to the size change:
Getting Stomped
Benefit of putting on a few pounds
It's is also a generally used concept in comics that increasing size increases strength (it also makes some sense) more examples of the advantage of martian size:
Also an example of dodging a laser
Durability
This is what I'm really curious about Majestic claimed that Eradicator hand the strength to fracture his bones, and in their fight, he stated that his ribs were already bending.
This makes me think his level of invulnerability may be as low as Superman. I'm also confused about his heat resistance first I see this scan:
But it seems to conflict with this:
Speed
I've seen a couple scans of Majestic flying to various points in space for unspecified amount of times that realistically imply faster than light travel, but I haven't seen any scans really indicating nanosecond reactions, superfast combat, or fast operational speed. I don't doubt he has it, I just wonder why people say he's much faster than Superman. I think I must be misunderstanding your claims about J'onn's speed though, that he can't dodge a light speed attack, doesn't have fast operational speed, or combat speed. I know you're familiar with Flashes battle with Zum, which is a fine display of Martian operational speed.
Destroys Martian facilities in every continent
and blitzes the Martian. All before they could communicate or even react.
Notice that Kyle Rayner is untouched, J'onn is not simply flying and spinning, but throwing his fists with intention
Miscellaneous
I have no idea what Majestic's lazer vision is capable of i saw that he is capable of subatomic manipulation
but what else can he do? How does it work? It vary well may be possible that he can find a way to by pass martian intangibility
About Heat Vision though:
And offensive Telekinesis:
" @vuviper: You really don't have to tell me what J'onn's feats are. Aside from maybe you, I am probably the leading authority on Martian Manhunter on the Vine. I have a folder dedicated to feats for him in my gallery with a couple hundred scans (and I have a couple hundred more on my computer). So I know what his best speed, strength, durability, shape shifting, telepathic, and heat vision feats are. I chose Majestic to win for the reasons I already stated. He has a much higher physical advantage (in strength, speed, and durability), combat skill, ruthlessness, and tactical intellect. I have no scans developed for Majestic; so if you need those, you would probably have to ask Buckshot. "My post wasn't specifically for you, but to address any question about J'onn I saw and ask my own questions about Majestic. I only "replied" to you (and meant to reply to Buckshot) so you would see my post and give me feedback. Actually not entirely true, I did mean the speed thing for you, I'm still not sure if I know what you meant. The rest of the J'onn discussion addressed other issues I saw in general (people talking about augmenting strength, using telekinesis, being hurt by heat vision while intangible, other examples of Maritain intangibility). The scans I included so other people could see precisely what I was talking about, and allows them to disagree with my interpretation. Also notice I did not disagree with you or try to refute any of your points, I don't have enough information to have a strong argument for either.
@Buckshot said:
" @vuviper:I wasn't really comparing this to J'onn's short confrontation with Superboy, I was trying to bring some prospective to the strength difference between J'onn and Majestic, claiming that people close to J'onn's strength/durability level (Superman, Superboy, Sodom Yat, etc) aren't so outmatched by characters of Majestic's strength level that that alone give them a victory. After this is established, I add that J'onn specifically has defensive capabilities that allow him to deal with/escape from physical confrontation. I apologize if this was unclear.
My last post in this thread includes my view of the strength situation and in a way it's similar to yours, but not entirely. I don't think Majestic would go all out with his strength and if he did, it's not like MM would be one-shotted, but I disagree with the idea that MM could hang with him physically because he didn't get bulldozed by Prime. A physical fight is more than just strength, and that's all Prime brought to the table. Majestic would bring fighting skills and weaponry, which would make him a greater physical threat than Prime was. He'd also be taking on MM one on one, not fighting MM in addition to dozens of other enemies. Comparing how MM might deal with Majestic's strength based on how he dealt with Prime's is one thing, but if you look at the greater skill, weaponry and single-minded focus that would also be directed at MM, it's something else entirely."
Also in case anyone didn't know, J'onn doesn't completely lack skill
@Buckshot said:
" @vuviper:
Back on the Eradicator thing, I've talked about this so many times it's sickening, but basically the thing here is that it's really not that big of a deal. Eradicator in Fortress mode was physically superior to Superman. In fact Superman (with the help of another of Eradicator's bodies) tried to fight Eradicator and was completely ineffectual. It should not be surprising that Eradicator had the strength to break bones (also worth mentioning, ribs are really easy to break in comparison to most other bones of any real size). MM probably has the strength to break one of Majestic's bones too, but it doesn't mean it's going to happen. Just like in that fight, Majestic never gave him the chance to break his bones and defeated him before he did any real damage. That's actually not true, Majestic stopped resisting the force of his hands so Eradicator had the chance there (and he failed to do anything). Lots of characters have the potential to do damage but can be prevented from doing so. It's not single stat against single stat, but a mixture. Eradicator, who physically puts Superman to shame, having the strength to bend one of Majestic's ribs, doesn't mean Majestic's durability is on Superman's level. Eradicator could break the bones of either of them, but that says nothing about who has more durability, just that Eradicator's strength is higher than both. A lot of characters would be on a list of those that can have their bones broken by Eradicator, but their durability would vary significantly. I wrote a blog entry on Majestic's durability because I got tired of saying the same thing in response to the scan you posted about him in the sun. Here it is: http://www.comicvine.com/myvine/buckshot/majestic-has-no-durability/87-61461/ "
I do realize that Eradicator is stronger than Superman or J'onn, but I don't think he would have the strength to quasi-permanently damage Superboy Prime's where as he does have the strength to probably break Superman's bones. This comment alone, makes me put majestic somewhere in between and closer to Superman. Many people seem to claim that Majestic has Superboy-Prime level durability or greater. The main reason I asked is because I only had 3 examples to go off of, and 2 of them seemed to contradict each other. Your blog looks very useful though thanks.
@Buckshot said:
" @vuviper:Thanks, these are the kinds of things I hadn't seen posted for Majestic's speed. Knowing specific examples helps a lot.
On top speed, I don't really feel like posting a ton of scans, but they're around. Here are some instances I can recall off the top of my head: -One that's pretty often mentioned is Majestic building a machine on a time scale measured in nanoseconds (after researching and designing it in seconds). He created an entirely new technology at an incredibly high speed, a process that would require him to analyze his opposition, gather research materials, read everything available on the subject, develop his own theories and test them, turn his theories into a physical device, gather materials for his device, and build it. That's quite a bit harder than punching someone really fast.-Avoiding dozens of projectiles flying at him at 6 times the speed of light (and being able to not only identify them but accurately report their speed) -Reacting to an attack from Void Spartan with only a nanosecond's warning -Flying from the Earth to Saturn and back while a villain was talking and getting back at the same part of the sentence at which he left (though that's worth looking at) "
@Buckshot said:
" @vuviper:I don't know if we can assume the same applies in the DC universe, telepathy does not necessarily work the same. I personally had never seen it, it's an interesting point though and I'll keep it in mind. I really don't read enough involving telepaths to know.
The MM speed feats provided are fast, but not quite the same level of speed. The telepathic one is something I wouldn't even include as a speed feat. Telepaths can control the flow of time on a mental plane. Xavier and others without superhuman speed have done this countless times. "
@Buckshot said:
" @vuviper:It does bring up the possibility. I still don't know how Majestic's laser vision really works. There is another problem though, if J'onn is able to at least read Majetic mind throughout the fight, he could use his shape-shifting to dodge any of the attacks that might affect him while intangible.
. The scan about atomic resonance is useful. I had wondered about a work-around to Martian intangibility and hadn't seen one, which is why I thought there were some scenarios where MM would win. Given that vulnerability and Majestic's intelligence and control of his vision, I think it's possible he could figure out what he needs to do. It wouldn't be an immediate reaction, but it's more than I thought he'd have before. However, that still leaves the problem of telepathy. Maj has some defense, but I still think MMs psychic offense would eventually get past it. There are possibilities for each of them. "
@CitizenBane said:
And you arrived at this conclusion based on what?
Resists parasitic attempt at mind/body control:
I'll have more scans later.
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