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#1 Posted by mexcomics2078 (2868 posts) - - Show Bio

H2H

Bloodlusted

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#2 Edited by Kal-Elol (446 posts) - - Show Bio

I stopped watching Arrow a few seasons ago, but based on what I remember, Ozy out-stats him and probably takes this.

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#3 Posted by blacharrt (1931 posts) - - Show Bio

Ozy would wreck anyone in that show.

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#4 Posted by RBT (28608 posts) - - Show Bio

Ollie. Comparable stats, and way more skilled.

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#5 Posted by Dabalya (194 posts) - - Show Bio

Ozy stomps

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#6 Posted by ProbablyASphere (531 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt: Has he caught a bullet in the last 8 or so episodes? Cause I doubt Oliver is taking punches that move that fast

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#7 Posted by DonWayneII (530 posts) - - Show Bio

ozy could do this in 30-45 seconds

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#8 Posted by lubub55 (12943 posts) - - Show Bio

Ozymandias wrecks.

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#9 Posted by RBT (28608 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt: Has he caught a bullet in the last 8 or so episodes? Cause I doubt Oliver is taking punches that move that fast

Oliver? No. He cannot catch a bullet. That being said, Adrian does not punch as fast as a bullet. Reflexes does not equate to combat speed.

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#10 Posted by deactivated-5c830d4e319e6 (4952 posts) - - Show Bio

Ozymandias wins.

Oliver is more skilled, but Ozy has better stats.

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#11 Posted by Aristeaus (1131 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:

Ollie. Comparable stats, and way more skilled.

Why do people say this? Ozy was able to effortlessly stomp two highly skilled H2H fighters, even when they attempted to use Deception, and weaponry against him. Oliver has more feats because there is more screen time. Is Oliver more skilled in H2H? Probably?. But there is zero chance he is "way more skilled".

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#12 Posted by RBT (28608 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:

Ollie. Comparable stats, and way more skilled.

Why do people say this? Ozy was able to effortlessly stomp two highly skilled H2H fighters, even when they attempted to use Deception, and weaponry against him. Oliver has more feats because there is more screen time. Is Oliver more skilled in H2H? Probably?. But there is zero chance he is "way more skilled".

Those highly skilled combatants had zero feats on par with even the low tier Arrowverse characters. I don't see either Nite Owl or Rosch surviving even a minute against Nyssa without their armor. And Nyssa is at least two tiers below Oliver.

Regardless of whether the skill gap is humungous or not, Oliver still has comparable stats and is more skilled. While Ozy has the reflex edge. Don't see why Oliver doesn't win this.

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#13 Posted by Danlee2000 (86 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt: lol I doubt Oliver can take any more than a few punches before getting KOed. And I doubt Oliver can really hurt him either due to his durability. Tbh that movie version of Ozy was pretty much superhuman... Oliver stands no chance if it's pure H2H

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#14 Posted by RBT (28608 posts) - - Show Bio

@danlee2000: I am assuming you aren't aware of Oliver's feats. He is more durable than Ozy. Strength and striking are comparable. Ozy has better reflexes. Oliver is more skilled. Now if you want, I can post some feats here to back up these claims, but most of the people on cv are aware of Oliver's feats.

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#15 Posted by Danlee2000 (86 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt: I am honestly not too aware of Oliver's feats.. would really appreiciate it if you could post some of his feats tho

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#16 Posted by RBT (28608 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt: I am honestly not too aware of Oliver's feats.. would really appreiciate it if you could post some of his feats tho

His top strength feats mostly include snapping handcuffs and chains. I'll post a couple.

Loading Video...

Snaps a chain.

Loading Video...

Snaps a handcuff.

Loading Video...

Tosses a grown man with ridiculous speed.

As for his striking, he can casually break padlocks by hitting them. Can kick a person through a door that was secured by chains. Ragdoll 3 people with one hit. Kick someone through a tile wall and punch through car windshields. I am not posting videos here for all of them to keep the post lightweight, but I can if you want.

Durability wise, he has taken hits from superhumans multiple times. Mirakuru users(capable of punching through metal and concrete), Dominators(capable of ragdolling Oliver about 40 ft). Been ragdolled through concrete by Darhk. To name a few.

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#17 Posted by Danlee2000 (86 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt: Thanks man!!! Now I see... I will agree that Arrow would probably win

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#18 Posted by TheSuperor (6838 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly, I could see this going either way. I'll call an even split

@lubub55 said:

Ozymandias wrecks.

Stfu biased fan boi

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#19 Posted by Aristeaus (1131 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:
@Aristeaus said:
@rbt said:

Ollie. Comparable stats, and way more skilled.

Why do people say this? Ozy was able to effortlessly stomp two highly skilled H2H fighters, even when they attempted to use Deception, and weaponry against him. Oliver has more feats because there is more screen time. Is Oliver more skilled in H2H? Probably?. But there is zero chance he is "way more skilled".

Those highly skilled combatants had zero feats on par with even the low tier Arrowverse characters. I don't see either Nite Owl or Rosch surviving even a minute against Nyssa without their armor. And Nyssa is at least two tiers below Oliver.

Regardless of whether the skill gap is humungous or not, Oliver still has comparable stats and is more skilled. While Ozy has the reflex edge. Don't see why Oliver doesn't win this.

Both Ror and Owl have feats of taking multiple regular humans at once. The effortless stomp by Ozy in a 1v2 situation puts him way above those two anyway.

Its closer then people give it credit for. I actually think this is a rather good matchup. Personally, I think Ozy has slightly better stats, and Oliver has slightly better skill. Ozy has higher intellect, but Oliver has better adaptation.

With the current rules, under bloodlusted, skill advantage gets heavily penalized. Probably would say Ozy wins this one. If its just Morals off, Oliver wins.

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#20 Posted by GeorgeWBush (12211 posts) - - Show Bio

Oliver wins without much difficulty

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#21 Posted by RBT (28608 posts) - - Show Bio

@Aristeaus:

Both Ror and Owl have feats of taking multiple regular humans at once. The effortless stomp by Ozy in a 1v2 situation puts him way above those two anyway.

Being better than Ror or Owl doesn't even begin to put Ozy on the same level as Oliver. Nyssa is better than either Ror or Owl, by far. And she is so far below Oliver, its not even a contest.

Its closer then people give it credit for. I actually think this is a rather good matchup. Personally, I think Ozy has slightly better stats, and Oliver has slightly better skill. Ozy has higher intellect, but Oliver has better adaptation.

As I said, strength and striking is close, Oliver is more durable and Ozy has better reflexes. That being said, the skill gap is nothing short of massive.

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#22 Posted by Aristeaus (1131 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:

@Aristeaus:

Both Ror and Owl have feats of taking multiple regular humans at once. The effortless stomp by Ozy in a 1v2 situation puts him way above those two anyway.

Being better than Ror or Owl doesn't even begin to put Ozy on the same level as Oliver. Nyssa is better than either Ror or Owl, by far. And she is so far below Oliver, its not even a contest.

Its closer then people give it credit for. I actually think this is a rather good matchup. Personally, I think Ozy has slightly better stats, and Oliver has slightly better skill. Ozy has higher intellect, but Oliver has better adaptation.

As I said, strength and striking is close, Oliver is more durable and Ozy has better reflexes. That being said, the skill gap is nothing short of massive.

There is nothing to suggest the gap is that large. Oliver has more feats because hes had 7 seasons of content. You can't just discount Ozy because he was in part of one movie.

Ozy is the smartest man on the planet, and clearly showed skill while effortless trouncing people. He was able to outsmart someone with damn near omniscience. To imagine, even for a moment, that his intelligence wouldn't translate into fighting skill or training, is laughable.

There is also nothing to suggest Oliver is more durable either. Ozy hasn't been pierced, beat up, or anything like that. Him catching a bullet is a durability feat in itself, something Oliver could never replicate.

Regardless, again, Bloodlusted throws a large part of that "skill gap" out the window. Need to play by the OP's rules here, not ones you make up.

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#23 Posted by InvadedTBD (1595 posts) - - Show Bio

Ozy over Ollie all day

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#24 Posted by Cergic (1207 posts) - - Show Bio

Ozy stomps just about any live action "human". I have analysed the movie too many times to bother posting again.

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#25 Edited by nfactor1995 (12944 posts) - - Show Bio

Ozymandias wins in pure H2H.

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#27 Posted by GeorgeWBush (12211 posts) - - Show Bio

Didn’t Oliver survive punches from Overgirl?

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#28 Posted by RBT (28608 posts) - - Show Bio

@Aristeaus:

There is nothing to suggest the gap is that large. Oliver has more feats because hes had 7 seasons of content. You can't just discount Ozy because he was in part of one movie.

I am not talking about quantity. The gap between Oliver and Ozy is massive because of the quality of the feats. Show me one feat in Watchmen that comes close to Nyssa taking on 6 LoA ninjas, while surrounded from literally every direction, taking all of them down, without getting tagged even once.

Ozy is the smartest man on the planet, and clearly showed skill while effortless trouncing people. He was able to outsmart someone with damn near omniscience. To imagine, even for a moment, that his intelligence wouldn't translate into fighting skill or training, is laughable.

Good. Show me examples of this. I am not here to debate your headcanon.

There is also nothing to suggest Oliver is more durable either. Ozy hasn't been pierced, beat up, or anything like that. Him catching a bullet is a durability feat in itself, something Oliver could never replicate.

A classic example of NLF. Just because Adrian had not been beaten down does not mean he can take the punishment Oliver has. Can Ozy tank hits from Mirakuru users? Someone capable of casually punching through concrete and metal? Can he take a backhand to the face that ragdolls him over 40 ft and completely shrugg off the hit? Can he survive a 500ft+ fall on rocks after getting stabbed through his chest? Can he get ragdolled through concrete and get back up? I know he can't. He doesn't have the feats. Oliver does. The durability gap is also very wide in Oliver's favor.

Regardless, again, Bloodlusted throws a large part of that "skill gap" out the window. Need to play by the OP's rules here, not ones you make up.

And why would bloodlust throw away any part of the skill gap?

All you're doing is making excuses. Oliver is far more skilled, has comparable strength and striking, worse reflexes and far better durability. He isn't losing by feats.

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#29 Edited by Aristeaus (1131 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:

@Aristeaus:

I am not talking about quantity. The gap between Oliver and Ozy is massive because of the quality of the feats. Show me one feat in Watchmen that comes close to Nyssa taking on 6 LoA ninjas, while surrounded from literally every direction, taking all of them down, without getting tagged even once.

Good. Show me examples of this. I am not here to debate your headcanon.

A classic example of NLF. Just because Adrian had not been beaten down does not mean he can take the punishment Oliver has. Can Ozy tank hits from Mirakuru users? Someone capable of casually punching through concrete and metal? Can he take a backhand to the face that ragdolls him over 40 ft and completely shrugg off the hit? Can he survive a 500ft+ fall on rocks after getting stabbed through his chest? Can he get ragdolled through concrete and get back up? I know he can't. He doesn't have the feats. Oliver does. The durability gap is also very wide in Oliver's favor.

And why would bloodlust throw away any part of the skill gap?

All you're doing is making excuses. Oliver is far more skilled, has comparable strength and striking, worse reflexes and far better durability. He isn't losing by feats.

Ok man. Don't get too worked up. I think its a good matchup. Im not trying to have a end all be all debate with you. If it were a CaV, there is no way Ozy wins because he doesn't have enough screen time. There is no way he can compete with the amount of feats Oliver has(and quantity does produce more quality at the top end, which is all anyone debates with Oliver ). This is not a CaV though, and I am using logic the best I can to determine the fight. I am not partial to either fighter. I really don't care who wins here. I, again, just think its a good fight.

Firstly, we have seen Ozy fight a little bit. He's not throwing windmill punches. Hes clearly got some level of skill. While he does out stat Ror and Owl, he won that fight on skill. Given that he has been trained and his aptitude intellectually, its not a far leap to assume that he is well trained.

Its not NLF. I do not think he cannot be hurt. The bullet was barely able to pierce his palm, producing a little blood. That gives him pretty damn good piercing durability, and pretty damn good blunt durability ( as if the bullet does not go through, it becomes blunt force ( See bullet proof vests ), in a localized area like his hand would shatter a normal humans hand completely. Can he survive those feats you listed? I don't know. My guess would be yes personally, but he could not as well.

Bloodlust literally means: uncontrollable desire to kill or maim others.

While skill does not completely go away, you are running straight at the person in pure anger. Anger clouds skill and reasoning. People do not fight well while angry, and this is nothing new. I really shouldn't have to explain that.

It should also be noted that this fight has been done before, quite a few times, and Ozymandias has won every time in H2H.

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#30 Edited by RBT (28608 posts) - - Show Bio

@Aristeaus:

Firstly, we have seen Ozy fight a little bit. He's not throwing windmill punches. Hes clearly got some level of skill. While he does out stat Ror and Owl, he won that fight on skill. Given that he has been trained and his aptitude intellectually, its not a far leap to assume that he is well trained.

No one is saying Ozy is unskilled. At least, I'm not. He is obviously skilled. Only his or anyone else's skill feats from Watchmen aren't anywhere near the top CW combatants.

f it were a CaV, there is no way Ozy wins because he doesn't have enough screen time. There is no way he can compete with the amount of feats Oliver has(and quantity does produce more quality at the top end, which is all anyone debates with Oliver ). This is not a CaV though, and I am using logic the best I can to determine the fight. I am not partial to either fighter. I really don't care who wins here. I, again, just think its a good fight.

We agree then. If we go by feats, then Oliver wins. You are saying that logically this fight is very close, despite this being a win in Oliver's favor if we go by feats. I prefer using feats to take sides and so I am siding with Oliver.

Rest of your post is basically this. Ozy doesn't have feats, but he should logically be able to do it. Which I understand why you would think, but as I said, I prefer to go by feats.

It should also be noted that this fight has been done before, quite a few times, and Ozymandias has won every time in H2H.

Polls are basically a popularity contest. It's not surprising that it doesn't end well for a character as hated as CW Oliver.

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#31 Posted by buildhare (8715 posts) - - Show Bio

Ozymandias decisively.

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#32 Posted by Aristeaus (1131 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:

Rest of your post is basically this. Ozy doesn't have feats, but he should logically be able to do it. Which I understand why you would think, but as I said, I prefer to go by feats.

Polls are basically a popularity contest. It's not surprising that it doesn't end well for a character as hated as CW Oliver.

Yeah. Sometimes you need to use scaling and logic, especially when one side has 1000x the screentime as the other side. There is nothing wrong with going by feats, however.

I highly doubt people are choosing Movie Ozy over CW Arrow based on popularity. Movie came out 10 years ago, and CW Arrow has been debated far, far more then Movie Ozy ever has. In fact, I would argue that CW Arrow is far more popular.

There were people in those old Ozy vs Oliver threads that though Oliver would win, even when he had no feats on par with what little Ozy had. Hell, there are people who think Oliver can beat Cap in h2h.

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#33 Posted by RBT (28608 posts) - - Show Bio

@Aristeaus:

Yeah. Sometimes you need to use scaling and logic, especially when one side has 1000x the screentime as the other side. There is nothing wrong with going by feats, however.

I highly doubt people are choosing Movie Ozy over CW Arrow based on popularity. Movie came out 10 years ago, and CW Arrow has been debated far, far more then Movie Ozy ever has. In fact, I would argue that CW Arrow is far more popular.

Arrow is certainly more popular. Its also extrmely hated on this site. Again, I am not saying that everyone siding against Oliver is doing so because they hate Arrow. But there is certainly an extreme bias against CW and its characters on this site.

There were people in those old Ozy vs Oliver threads that though Oliver would win, even when he had no feats on par with what little Ozy had. Hell, there are people who think Oliver can beat Cap in h2h.

Sure. There are probably people who probably claim that. I am not saying that everyone and anyone on this site is biased against CW characters. But there certainly are people who are. My only point is that polls are not a fair parameter to judge who would win. Battle of the Week has run into same problem countless times.

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#34 Posted by TonyMartial (9784 posts) - - Show Bio
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#35 Posted by Aristeaus (1131 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:

Arrow is certainly more popular. Its also extrmely hated on this site. Again, I am not saying that everyone siding against Oliver is doing so because they hate Arrow. But there is certainly an extreme bias against CW and its characters on this site.

Sure. There are probably people who probably claim that. I am not saying that everyone and anyone on this site is biased against CW characters. But there certainly are people who are. My only point is that polls are not a fair parameter to judge who would win. Battle of the Week has run into same problem countless times.

I don't disagree. You see it all the time with bias, fanbois, etc. I don't have a stake in either. I don't really care for Arrow, its my least favorite CW DC show. Also not a big watchmen guy. Im just trying to be as objective as I can be, and i try to do that in every post I make weighing in on battles.

In this instance, I do think Ozy wins, under the rules set, but I can see the CaV arguments and the like as well.

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#36 Posted by RBT (28608 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:

Arrow is certainly more popular. Its also extrmely hated on this site. Again, I am not saying that everyone siding against Oliver is doing so because they hate Arrow. But there is certainly an extreme bias against CW and its characters on this site.

Sure. There are probably people who probably claim that. I am not saying that everyone and anyone on this site is biased against CW characters. But there certainly are people who are. My only point is that polls are not a fair parameter to judge who would win. Battle of the Week has run into same problem countless times.

I don't disagree. You see it all the time with bias, fanbois, etc. I don't have a stake in either. I don't really care for Arrow, its my least favorite CW DC show. Also not a big watchmen guy. Im just trying to be as objective as I can be, and i try to do that in every post I make weighing in on battles.

In this instance, I do think Ozy wins, under the rules set, but I can see the CaV arguments and the like as well.

Fair enough.

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#37 Edited by Man_of_Miracles (3551 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt: Ozy took a full on bloodlusted facebeating from Nite Owl II without a single scratch, it barely messed up his hair.

Nite Owl was capable of ragdolling fully grown men several feet with single strikes in a similar manner to Ollie. He was also capable of very literally shattering their bones with single strikes.

I would say that from the limited showing we have from Ozy his durability to striking is at least similar to Ollie's if not superior. I can not see Ollie completely no selling a beating from Nite Owl in that manner.

We should also keep in mind that between the bullet catching feat and the scene where Ozy is avoiding the gunman at his office he is a good bit faster than Ollie.

Now as has been said Ollie has more feats to pull from but I would back Ozy in pure h2h.