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#2 Edited by marvelfan1992 (2681 posts) - - Show Bio

Moondragon starts fresh every round. All characters are bloodlusted. no phoenix or mind gem for anyone. TP only

1. Quentin Quire

2. 3-in-1 Stepford Cuckoos

3. Psylocke

4. Xavier Jr.

5. Mr. Sinister

6. Rachel Grey

7. Exodus

8. Emma Frost

9. Shadow King

10. Cassandra Nova

11. Jean Grey

12. Professor X

13. Lifeseed Nate Grey

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#3 Posted by Koays (11477 posts) - - Show Bio

stops at 1.... Prove me wrong

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#4 Posted by Supermanthor (20005 posts) - - Show Bio

1

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#5 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (6969 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah I feel like she stops at one too.

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#6 Posted by EmmaFrostXmen (2494 posts) - - Show Bio

Could stop at 1 or 2, definitely stops at 3

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#7 Posted by newecho (7260 posts) - - Show Bio

the list is out of order. Quires is more powerful than most on the list. Anyways moondragon is probably the 4 or 5th most powerful psychic in all of marvel so she wins almost every fight until professor x. Maybe shadow king could do something as I am not as versed on him as I am the others. I think you would have to be more specific about which jean grey for her to win.

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#8 Posted by newecho (7260 posts) - - Show Bio

@koays: dude moondragon has planet level to galaxy level telepathy. She has twice made a whole planet of people worship her through controlling all the minds. She is above quientin who is above most of this list btw.

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#9 Posted by EmmaFrostXmen (2494 posts) - - Show Bio

@newecho: Unenhanced Moondragon will get stomped by anyone from Rachel Grey to Nate Grey, And she doesn’t have the TP feats to win rounds 1-5 either

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#10 Posted by newecho (7260 posts) - - Show Bio

@emmafrostxmen: she didn't have the mind stone when she mind controlled the planet.

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#11 Posted by marvelfan1992 (2681 posts) - - Show Bio

@newecho: Quire could be argued to be above the Cuckoos...and maybe above Psylocke but that's probably it

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#12 Posted by newecho (7260 posts) - - Show Bio

@marvelfan1992: I disagree. I think he is above Rachel. I don't know Xavier jr so I can't comment on him.. Either way I just think its out of order which isn't a big deal. It was just an observation.

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#13 Posted by del_torro (3742 posts) - - Show Bio

@newecho: how many people were on that planet.

Lol, Quentin isn't the most powerful person here

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#14 Posted by newecho (7260 posts) - - Show Bio

@newecho: how many people were on that planet.

Lol, Quentin isn't the most powerful person here

I didn't say he was the most powerful here. Moondragon has done planetary level twice. It doesn't really matter how many were on the planet. None of the the people here has that much power until professor x. I guess you could argue that cass could have that much power and may very well have feats to match. I only read the grant Morrison stuff so not sure of any of her other feats. I still think you have to qualify which jean this is as she could win also.

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#15 Posted by EmmaFrostXmen (2494 posts) - - Show Bio

@newecho: She has one single good feat, the other telepaths here (most of them) have multiple planetary feats, and great TP combat feats

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#16 Posted by AlphaQ (6345 posts) - - Show Bio

On one hand Quentin lost to Rachel when cheapshotting her, on the other he held Red Onslaught at bay for quite a while. Someone who could instantly dominate SS Strange, SW, Hulk and Vision, along with the whole planet.

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#17 Posted by marvelfan1992 (2681 posts) - - Show Bio

@newecho: oh that's quite higher than I expected. What makes you say he's above Rachel if you don't mind getting into it a bit :)

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#18 Posted by newecho (7260 posts) - - Show Bio

@newecho: She has one single good feat, the other telepaths here (most of them) have multiple planetary feats, and great TP combat feats

She only has one good feat? I beg to differ... She beat pierced galactus with tp and beat thanos. She also contacts and pinpoints people galaxies away which is above anything the first 9 can do. I do believe an argument could be made that they can make her lose her concentration but I think that would be considered plot armor. I would also argue that since this is a fight she could tk 1 through nine to death or just beat them to death consider she is a top 10 fighter in the 616. I think even if your argument is they are all the same level of psychic to heather then they can't make up for her fighting ability. Even psylocke doesn't compare as moondragon has wins over mantis.

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#19 Posted by marvelfan1992 (2681 posts) - - Show Bio

@newecho: this is a telepath gauntlet, they only have access to TP here :)

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#20 Posted by newecho (7260 posts) - - Show Bio

@newecho: oh that's quite higher than I expected. What makes you say he's above Rachel if you don't mind getting into it a bit :)

To be fair quientin is very inconsistent so I always use him at his full potential which in my opinion is above Rachel without amp.

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#21 Posted by newecho (7260 posts) - - Show Bio

@newecho: this is a telepath gauntlet, they only have access to TP here :)

It doesn't say that in your op,,, if that's the case then I still stand by the getting to nine

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#22 Posted by Warlockmage (9289 posts) - - Show Bio

@newecho said:

the list is out of order. Quires is more powerful than most on the list. Anyways moondragon is probably the 4 or 5th most powerful psychic in all of marvel so she wins almost every fight until professor x. Maybe shadow king could do something as I am not as versed on him as I am the others. I think you would have to be more specific about which jean grey for her to win.

did... did you just say Quire is more powerful than Life Seed Nate Grey or Professor X? surely you are joking

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#23 Posted by EmmaFrostXmen (2494 posts) - - Show Bio

@newecho: No she can’t TK them, Emma has locked Exodus out of using his other abilities before and she can do the same here.

Beating a weakened Galactus is an unquantifiable

Beating Mantis is a good feat, but Mantis has good range, but in TP combat has not shown to be anywhere close to Emma, Exodus, or (especially) Jean

If I remember correctly Moondragon didn’t out skill Mantis, she just beat her in due to other factors like stats. In my opinion Mantis is the best h2h fighter in the Marvel universe

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#24 Posted by newecho (7260 posts) - - Show Bio

@newecho said:

the list is out of order. Quires is more powerful than most on the list. Anyways moondragon is probably the 4 or 5th most powerful psychic in all of marvel so she wins almost every fight until professor x. Maybe shadow king could do something as I am not as versed on him as I am the others. I think you would have to be more specific about which jean grey for her to win.

did... did you just say Quire is more powerful than Life Seed Nate Grey or Professor X? surely you are joking

I am sure most on the list doesn't represent all on the list.

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#25 Edited by EmmaFrostXmen (2494 posts) - - Show Bio

@newecho: No she can’t TK them, Emma has locked Exodus out of using his other abilities before and she can do the same here.

Beating a weakened Galactus is an unquantifiable feat

Beating Mantis is a good feat, but Mantis has good range, but in TP combat has not shown to be anywhere close to Emma, Exodus, or (especially) Jean

If I remember correctly Moondragon didn’t out skill Mantis, she just beat her in due to other factors like stats. In my opinion Mantis is the best h2h fighter in the Marvel universe

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#26 Posted by onsipin (590 posts) - - Show Bio

@alphaq said:

On one hand Quentin lost to Rachel when cheapshotting her, on the other he held Red Onslaught at bay for quite a while. Someone who could instantly dominate SS Strange, SW, Hulk and Vision, along with the whole planet.

it was an aoe broadcast though and not a direct attack on him. Early 90s Jean who is a far cry from her current self was able to shield the x-men from OG Onslaught who had absorbed both Franklin Richards and Nate Grey to immensely power him up, that version of Onslaught >>> Red Onslaught who as far as I'm aware only has the TP of Xavier. Psylocke who is also rather down the ladder of telepaths has also shielded from the telepathy attack of the Shadow King who was being amped by both Proteus and a network of psychics he was tapping into. While Quire blocking Red Onslaught's telepathy is really nice, it would not put him above people like Rachel in my opinion.

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#27 Posted by PyroFN (6382 posts) - - Show Bio

@newecho: 1) The Cuckoos have stomped Quentin in Nation X, which as far as I know is their most recent battle. And that was while Quentin took over Cerebra. He is exactly where he should be on this list.

2) It’s been proven multiple times that Moondragon did not control a planet. She controlled only their leaders.

3) Jean Grey, Emma Frost, Shadow King, Rachel Summers, Madelyne Pryor, and Lifeseed Nate Grey have shown to have planetary level telepathy. Xavier isn’t the only one with planetary level feats.

4) A weakened Galactus? Xavier has penetrated Galactus mind before and Teen Jean has psychically drained his energy and more than that to knock him down with a single punch. An adult Jean Grey has casually felt the mind of a Celestial with low-level telepathy and has conversed with the Stranger without losing her mind like Juggernaut did.

5) Moondragon has NOT beaten Thanos. The best Moondragon has done is subdue him while he had a feral state of mind, and even then she needed help from Mantis and Cosmo.

Every other confrontation had her being stomped by him big time.

6) Moondragon has ranged communication at best. That doesn’t quantify her sufficiency in battle. Jean Grey has not only scanned an entire planet before, she has caused psychic phenomena to happen all over the world, most notably physical psychic illusions that fought X-Men simultaneously at different locations. Emma Frost has projected messages to mutants around the Earth. Madelyne Pryor scanned the Earth for AoA signatures for Nate Grey.

You want to know the other side of this? Rachel Grey has projected across space from one location back to earth, yet she is rated lower than Jean Grey, Charles Xavier etc. Range is at best a facet of power. It’s not power itself.

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#28 Posted by newecho (7260 posts) - - Show Bio

@newecho: No she can’t TK them, Emma has locked Exodus out of using his other abilities before and she can do the same here.

Beating a weakened Galactus is an unquantifiable feat

Beating Mantis is a good feat, but Mantis has good range, but in TP combat has not shown to be anywhere close to Emma, Exodus, or (especially) Jean

If I remember correctly Moondragon didn’t out skill Mantis, she just beat her in due to other factors like stats. In my opinion Mantis is the best h2h fighter in the Marvel universe

Locking exodous out of abilities and heather are two different things. Again heather at her weakest is planetary in tp so at best even if you think the whole list is planetary then they would stalemate. I would argue she at least galaxy level considering she can communicate and locate people galaxies away. I agree mantis is the best hand to hand fighter in marvel but heather did beat her with distraction. Emma isn't planetary without amps. Jean is more powerful but again it depends on the version of jean but I don't think heather gets past xaiver either way. Again cass nova could beat her but I only know her from her creation ie grant Morrison. She wouldn't beat her with those feats. I don't remember shadow king well enough to know whether he wins or not...

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#29 Posted by EmmaFrostXmen (2494 posts) - - Show Bio

@newecho: No, if you take two plantetary level telepaths and make them fight, while their power would be equal that doesnt mean they would stalemate. The one with more skill would come out on top, and example of this would be when Emma Frost stomped Rachel due to her having superior skill (Rachel has more raw TP power than Emma). Moondragon hasn’t performed any decent TP combat/skill feats that put her on Emma, or Jeans level

Also Emma most certainly is planetary. Without enhancements she projected Cyclops’ message to every mutant mind on the planet

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#30 Posted by newecho (7260 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrofn said:

@newecho: 1) The Cuckoos have stomped Quentin in Nation X, which as far as I know is their most recent battle. And that was while Quentin took over Cerebra. He is exactly where he should be on this list.

2) It’s been proven multiple times that Moondragon did not control a planet. She controlled only their leaders.

3) Jean Grey, Emma Frost, Shadow King, Rachel Summers, Madelyne Pryor, and Lifeseed Nate Grey have shown to have planetary level telepathy. Xavier isn’t the only one with planetary level feats.

4) A weakened Galactus? Xavier has penetrated Galactus mind before and Teen Jean has psychically drained his energy and more than that to knock him down with a single punch. An adult Jean Grey has casually felt the mind of a Celestial with low-level telepathy and has conversed with the Stranger without losing her mind like Juggernaut did.

5) Moondragon has NOT beaten Thanos. The best Moondragon has done is subdue him while he had a feral state of mind, and even then she needed help from Mantis and Cosmo.

Every other confrontation had her being stomped by him big time.

6) Moondragon has ranged communication at best. That doesn’t quantify her sufficiency in battle. Jean Grey has not only scanned an entire planet before, she has caused psychic phenomena to happen all over the world, most notably physical psychic illusions that fought X-Men simultaneously at different locations. Emma Frost has projected messages to mutants around the Earth. Madelyne Pryor scanned the Earth for AoA signatures for Nate Grey.

You want to know the other side of this? Rachel Grey has projected across space from one location back to earth, yet she is rated lower than Jean Grey, Charles Xavier etc. Range is at best a facet of power. It’s not power itself.

1. Quientin is always inconsistent and I don't think in recent comics he is shown very well. I don't read marvel as of now. I use him at his height which is why the bloodlust matters

2. It hasn't been proven. That is an opinion

3. I never said they didn't I also never said she beats any of them other than emma who needs amps to do such things. Again depends on which jean grey too..

4. again irrelevant as I don't think heather beats them

5. still a good feat considering thanos would beat almost this whole list

6. again irrelevant as I don't think she beats jean grey.

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#31 Posted by del_torro (3742 posts) - - Show Bio

@newecho:

Oh, I don't really see anyone on the list that Quentin can beat.

Take the Cuckoos for example, they've beaten him twice recently. He doesn't really have the feats.

@Alphaq: he also has a feat of blocking mental attacks from D'spayre

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#32 Posted by newecho (7260 posts) - - Show Bio

@newecho: No, if you take two plantetary level telepaths and make them fight, while their power would be equal that doesnt mean they would stalemate. The one with more skill would come out on top, and example of this would be when Emma Frost stomped Rachel due to her having superior skill (Rachel has more raw TP power than Emma). Moondragon hasn’t performed any decent TP combat/skill feats that put her on Emma, or Jeans level

Also Emma most certainly is planetary. Without enhancements she projected Cyclops’ message to every mutant mind on the planet

I agree with your assessment but I do think we have a difference of opinion about skill. I think that xmen characters have feat against names most know so they seem to have better feats than heather. I also don't agree that emma is consistently a planetary threat. I also don't get why people keep bringing jean's name up to me. I don't think heather beats her.

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#33 Posted by del_torro (3742 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmmm. When did Moondragon beat Galactus. That never happened.

All she did was help Thanos connect to Galactus mind. After which Thanos had to run away before Galactus stomped him.

Moondragon also never beat Thanos. She got beaten by pre annihilation Thanos, and with the help of Cosmo and Mantis was struggling to restrain post annihilation Thanos.

I asked about how many people were on that planet, because I saw a scan that said the planets population is 92 million. That won't make her more impressive than x-telepaths that have read or channeled or fooled every mind on earth (6.7 billion).

Even North America alone has a population of 500 million, that's 10 times the people she controlled.

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#34 Posted by PyroFN (6382 posts) - - Show Bio

@newecho said:
@pyrofn said:

@newecho: 1) The Cuckoos have stomped Quentin in Nation X, which as far as I know is their most recent battle. And that was while Quentin took over Cerebra. He is exactly where he should be on this list.

2) It’s been proven multiple times that Moondragon did not control a planet. She controlled only their leaders.

3) Jean Grey, Emma Frost, Shadow King, Rachel Summers, Madelyne Pryor, and Lifeseed Nate Grey have shown to have planetary level telepathy. Xavier isn’t the only one with planetary level feats.

4) A weakened Galactus? Xavier has penetrated Galactus mind before and Teen Jean has psychically drained his energy and more than that to knock him down with a single punch. An adult Jean Grey has casually felt the mind of a Celestial with low-level telepathy and has conversed with the Stranger without losing her mind like Juggernaut did.

5) Moondragon has NOT beaten Thanos. The best Moondragon has done is subdue him while he had a feral state of mind, and even then she needed help from Mantis and Cosmo.

Every other confrontation had her being stomped by him big time.

6) Moondragon has ranged communication at best. That doesn’t quantify her sufficiency in battle. Jean Grey has not only scanned an entire planet before, she has caused psychic phenomena to happen all over the world, most notably physical psychic illusions that fought X-Men simultaneously at different locations. Emma Frost has projected messages to mutants around the Earth. Madelyne Pryor scanned the Earth for AoA signatures for Nate Grey.

You want to know the other side of this? Rachel Grey has projected across space from one location back to earth, yet she is rated lower than Jean Grey, Charles Xavier etc. Range is at best a facet of power. It’s not power itself.

1. Quentin is always inconsistentand I don't think in recent comics he is shown very well. I don't read marvel as of now. I use him at his height which is why the bloodlust matters

It isn't inconsistent. Quentin is a very conceited, cocky character who uses predictable tactics. And then when he thinks he wins, his opponents take advantage of his gloating to take him down. A bloodlusted Quentin would still be a Quentin who would gloat about how superior he is before getting bodied.

2. It hasn't been proven. That is an opinion

Wrong.

"You speak as though I set myself up as Queen of Ba-bani!.............I merely improved communication among the world leaders and removed the needs of war." -Moondragon

It has been proven.

3. I never said they didn't I also never said she beats any of them other than emma who needs amps to do such things. Again depends on which jean grey too..

1) Depends on what she is doing. But generally, she doesn't.

No Caption Provided

2) What do you mean it depends on which Jean Grey? I hope you mean Jean Grey in her history like 90's Jean, etc. Even you mean she can only do it with Phoenix, your bubble is about to burst.

4. again irrelevant as I don't think heather beats them

5. still a good feat considering thanos would beat almost this whole list

6. again irrelevant as I don't think she beats jean grey.

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#35 Posted by del_torro (3742 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrofn: moondragon was lying to the Avengers. She was controlling everyone on the planet and staged the rebellion to get the avengers on her side.

Every one on the rebellion was under her control control, so that even proves more that she's lying.

She took over the planet with telepathy.

I think she also has a feat of astral combat against doctor strange and has projected through time to contact Kang.

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#36 Posted by newecho (7260 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrofn: show the panel in which it says she controlling the whole planet through tp. This is the aftermath after the fact. Again people who want to say its not a planetary use this as their argument. I disagree. I just think it was product of the time and they were inconsistent in how they wrote things...

Again emma isn't consistent with this type of power. She can't do this on a whelm or why would she ever have needed amps to begin with.

I mean marvel girl couldn't beat her. I do however think any jean past say the eighties would beat heather..

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#37 Posted by PyroFN (6382 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrofn: moondragon was lying to the Avengers. She was controlling everyone on the planet and staged the rebellion to get the avengers on her side.

Every one on the rebellion was under her control control, so that even proves more that she's lying.

She took over the planet with telepathy.

I think she also has a feat of astral combat against doctor strange and has projected through time to contact Kang

Yeah, I definitely gotta see This. Not the Doctor Strange one. I have seen that fight before.

@newecho said:

@pyrofn: show the panel in which it says she controlling the whole planet through tp. This is the aftermath after the fact. Again people who want to say its not a planetary use this as their argument. I disagree. I just think it was product of the time and they were inconsistent in how they wrote things...

If you had said this before del_torro stepped in, I would have said that that is your job because I don't believe it exists. Lucky for you, we will let Del handle this.

Again emma isn't consistent with this type of power. She can't do this on a whelm or why would she ever have needed amps to begin with.

She doesn't need amps. She doesn't use amps to begin with. What are you even referring to?

I mean marvel girl couldn't beat her. I do however think any jean past say the eighties would beat heather.

Well, yeah. Marvel Girl is still her in training.

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#38 Posted by newecho (7260 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrofn: If you read the whole arc then you would know that she had to control the entire planet to even be in charge. She was lying to the avengers because she needed their help iirc. I haven't read that in like four years.

The arc about dr strange is a fight she didn't win but put up a really good fight iirc.

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#39 Posted by EmmaFrostXmen (2494 posts) - - Show Bio

@newecho: I was just using Jean as an example of a planetary telepath that a Moondragon can’t beat

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#40 Edited by PyroFN (6382 posts) - - Show Bio

@newecho: You are basically parroting del_torro at this point. Unless you can bring the scan, I ain't buying it. Either that or wait until Del does the work for you. Because I am not gonna search an arc based on minimal and vague info.

I know about the Dr. Strange fight. That is why I told Del not to bother.

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#41 Posted by newecho (7260 posts) - - Show Bio

@emmafrostxmen: I would put jean above planetary level tho.. I understood your particular use of her but everyone was pretending that I believed heather beat her which I do not so I kind of went off topic. apologies

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#42 Posted by marvelfan1992 (2681 posts) - - Show Bio

@newecho said:

@emmafrostxmen: I would put jean above planetary level tho.. I understood your particular use of her but everyone was pretending that I believed heather beat her which I do not so I kind of went off topic. apologies

I think it's because you said "she wins almost every fight until professor x." which I suppose people took to mean including Jean, but you did say almost so a misunderstanding is all :)

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#43 Posted by Koays (11477 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm just here to remind everyone that Quire isn't above Rachel by any stretch of the imagination

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#44 Posted by EmmaFrostXmen (2494 posts) - - Show Bio
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#45 Posted by newecho (7260 posts) - - Show Bio

@marvelfan1992: You may be right.. I think i thought when i made that statement that x was before jean because i put jean above x in pure power considering she has beat him twice handily without phoenix iirc. I don't think heather can beat jean by any stretch tho..

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#46 Posted by CaptFalcon725 (1200 posts) - - Show Bio

@newecho: Quire could be argued to be above the Cuckoos...and maybe above Psylocke but that's probably it

@del_torro This is probably more accurate. Put Quentin above Betsy. Moondragon goes down to Rachel Grey on the revised list.

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#47 Posted by marvelfan1992 (2681 posts) - - Show Bio

@newecho: oh I have Jean above Xavier as well, I just put him above her as that is the traditional view and i didn't want this turning into an argument over Jean and Xavier lol!

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#48 Posted by del_torro (3742 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm just here to remind you all that Xavier is stronger than Jean.

You guys are out of control

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#49 Edited by geekryan (4722 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol at Quentin being stronger than Rachel...

Anyways, Moondragon w/o the Mind Gem lacks feats against other established telepaths, but her TP was strong enough to mind control an entire planet. She has also mind controlled Thor, Iron Man, and Namor, mind wiped and temporarily killed Drax, read Galactus' mind, held her own in a astral battle against Dr Strange, and held her own against Thanos (but lost).

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#50 Posted by FireStarLord73194 (5290 posts) - - Show Bio

I have no clue how to scale this girl... in the current guardians book she took down cosmic ghost rider with some dragon tk/tp construct thing. I’ve read that she’s controlled Thor and matched Thanos in psionic powers and can’t Thanos affect Galactus with his telepathy? If so then she’s well within the omega levels of psionic ability