Monster Garou vs Current Meliodas

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KingCrimson

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@lan_fan: Seven Deadly Sins speed scaling is hard, but as a baseline, BoS Meliodas could casually react to lightning. Galan blitzed him easily, then Mel blitzed Galan 12 times over before he could react after regaining his power. Then Estarossa outsped thay Meliodas by a considerable degree, moving a dozen meters before Mel could complete a single sword swing. Estarossa was then blitzed by 11am Escanor at such speeds he couldn't even see the blow. Current Meliodas then blitzed 11:30+ am Escanor, stabbing him before he could react.

The best speed feat Garou has is blitzing Atomic Samurai and reacting in milliseconds, which'd put him about in the same general tier of speed as Estarossa.

Without that lightning feat though, all those speed feats get thrown out the window, and the argument that magical lightning =/= natural lightning is always rife in NNT debates.

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vsw

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#52  Edited By vsw

@hittheassasin said:

@lan_fan: Seven Deadly Sins speed scaling is hard, but as a baseline, BoS Meliodas could casually react to lightning. Galan blitzed him easily, then Mel blitzed Galan 12 times over before he could react after regaining his power. Then Estarossa outsped thay Meliodas by a considerable degree, moving a dozen meters before Mel could complete a single sword swing. Estarossa was then blitzed by 11am Escanor at such speeds he couldn't even see the blow. Current Meliodas then blitzed 11:30+ am Escanor, stabbing him before he could react.

The best speed feat Garou has is blitzing Atomic Samurai and reacting in milliseconds, which'd put him about in the same general tier of speed as Estarossa.

Alot of Scaling, and Speed Stacking is Unqiantifiable but seeing as your using it, If we Stack Garou speed its still Faster than Mels, Considering Garous best Speed feats isnt Blitzing Atomic Samurai , But Blitzing Golden Sperm, Who moves FTE To Sweet mask, who previosly tagged Black Sperm(and BS IS mach 900), and he Blitzed Black sperm 99 Times before he could react, and this was all before Getting 2 Significant Speed Boosts.

So even with Speed Stacking(which again, isnt reliable) and without Speed stacking Garou is still Faster.

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HitTheAssasin

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@vsw: But why is Sperm Mach 900, exactly?

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vsw

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@vsw: But why is Sperm Mach 900, exactly?

im assuming your talking about Black sperm, he's that Fast Via Dodging a Slice from AS And Tagging him Multiple times

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deactivated-5faf743db9a3e

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Garou is becoming insanely Strong, although probably not at Boros just yet. But there is no doubt he will surpass him very soon.

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cromulor

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@jashugan: Yeah no. Characters like Sonic are single digit Mach. Flashy Flash is supposed to be the fastest of the S-Class, to the point that Monster Garou said if he was still Awakened Garou then Flashy Flash would’ve killed him with his speed. Unless you think Garou is single digit Mach as well, but I don’t see how you could believe that when he’s done things like perceive high level A-Class heroes as statues.

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jashugan

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@cromulor: did you even read the link posted?

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vsw

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@jashugan: FF isn't Mach 8, Via scaling and common sense, he's considerably Faster than AS Who's MHS+.

Anyway the timeframe isn't all that important, I can shoot 15 bullets in a minute, doesn't mean the bikers all took a minute to reach the target.

Hell, FTL Toriko characters Blitz each other in 0.1 seconds, and they aren't Mach 8.

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jashugan

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#59  Edited By jashugan

@vsw: it's funny that you think we should completely ignore a character's best feat (the one everyone was scaling garou to before these recent manga chapters) to instead use scaling to another character we never saw him fight.

Time always matters when talking about speed

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vsw

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#60  Edited By vsw

@jashugan:

What? Garou fought AS, given it was the WB version, Tge manga is based off the WB so feats from AS do apply.

Anyway you can still Scale AS to Melgazard to Bang(though it's faulty) who scales to Garou ish

And again Time is relative to the situation, Several FTL chardters have moved within 0.01 yet we don't consider them Mach 8

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jashugan

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#61  Edited By jashugan

@vsw: flashy flash didn't fight atomic samurai on screen.

I don't care about ftl characters from other series when neither character here is ftl nor is flashy flash anywhere near as fast as you think he is until the manga changes his feats.

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Gaoron

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Atomic Samurai feat is manga exclusive, Murata adds a lot of new better feats in the manga that weren't in the original webcomic, for example Boros Moon kick was added in. Flashy Flash feat is probably gonna get retcon into something better when manga finally catches up to it. As of right now it's fair to scale to AS rather than use outdated Garou/Flash feat which shows characters slower than they really are. If Murata still draws them doing actions in 10 miliseconds then that just mean he never intended for AS feat to be calced at mach 900 and those this calc should be ignored.

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jashugan

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#63  Edited By jashugan

@gaoron: that's reasonable but the flashy flash fight was never 10 milliseconds, it was centiseconds.

The web comic isn't outdated, it would be best not to say that. The characters weren't "slower than they actually are" they were as fast as the author had them, and now seem to be even faster with the new artist.

No one had posted this Mach 900 calc either so I'm not sure why anyone is taking it seriously

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EcoBlitz

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@lan_fan: there is BoS mel casually with 0 trouble reacting to cloud to ground lightning, mel is over 30 times more powerful and faster. Galan blitzed mel and could escape mid attack from a spell at least hypersonic characters couldn’t react to by miles. He literally vanished in front of hypersonic characters. Galan is So fodder rn to pre 2 power ups mel it’s hilarious. His first power up alone was enough to absolutely humiliate Galan and blitz him before Galan himself could react.

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JustSomeRandomKid

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@jashugan: Mach 900 is the lowball version of it. It should really be considered in the 4 digit range but people just go with the lowest possible.

I’m currently on my phone but I can paste you a link to the feat: http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:LordXcano/Atomic_Samurai_is_a_Bit_Faster_than_Sound

AS cutting someone who was already stated to be bare minimum SuperSonic at least 42 times before he could even finish his swing.

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jashugan

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#66  Edited By jashugan

@justsomerandomkid: ? wow, a ridiculous calc from vs battles wiki. Who didn't see that coming?

I know XCano and I'm sure he wouldn't even agree with this calc anymore. He's also the one that did the 2% lightspeed Raiden calc and ignores it now

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JustSomeRandomKid

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@jashugan said:

@justsomerandomkid: ? wow, a ridiculous calc from vs battles wiki. Who didn't see that coming?

I know XCano and I'm sure he wouldn't even agree with this calc anymore. He's also the one that did the 2% lightspeed Raiden calc and ignores it now

lol. If you don’t agree with it thats fine. Was simply informing you of where it’s from.

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vsw

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@jashugan: he scales to Garou who does Scale to AS.

I never said FF was FTL, in just telling you the timeframe doesn't matter, especially when threw scaling the character is a lot faster. Again if I shoot 12 bullets in a

Minute did that mean each bullet took a minute to travel?

If FF perromed the centisecond feat and we didn't have any context then yea, he's be Mach 8, but considering he's Faster than AS(And all the other S classes for the majority) through Scaling the timeframe is irrelevant

If u want the Calc just search it on google(it's on reddit), Higherpower made it.

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jashugan

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#69  Edited By jashugan

@vsw: atomic samurai performed no Mach 900 wank feat in the web comic so that scaling gets thrown right out the window.

We have actual context from the web comic and nothing there indicates speeds vastly over Mach 8 for flashy flash.

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vsw

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#70  Edited By vsw

@jashugan:

well there both Canon so they're feats are generally interchangeable(unless the OP specifically says there not, this is the same reason why most times Anime feats are used when they're canon)

And what do u mean By wank feat? There feat was incredibly Lowballed because the sword speed was based to Mach 1(instead of being Mach 2)

And Scaling doesn't go through the window, AS still scales to Melgazard, Who Scales to Bang who Scales to Garou(quite weird to think Human Garou is Mach 900, but seeing as you've chased to deny Scaling from the manga and webcomics, whatever floats your boat) , Garou still Scales to AS.

You mean Apart from the Fact Human Garou deflected Hundreds of Bullers from a Mini gun(which is at lest low double digits),etc FF making Snake like Movements etc etc

At the end of the day, the feats still applies Via Scaling Because Garou scales to Bang etc etc so your point becomes Moot :p

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jashugan

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@vsw: the feats between the web comic and manga aren't all interchangeable because things happened in one that didn't happen in the other. Same for characters that exist in one but don't exist in the other.

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vsw

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#72  Edited By vsw

@jashugan: yea I'm not saying all feats are interchangable(for example because Orochi among others are new) but I don't see any Charactwr feats which exist in both Continuities can't Be interchanged , Seeing as Both are Canon

For example the Naruto anime and manga are slightly different, yet you'll usually find people using Anime feats( and Vice Versa), As long as both are Canon you'll usually find people using Both feats.

Plus it's not like the OP said no Manga :p

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higherpower

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#73 higherpower  Moderator

@jashugan I'm just skimming through this thread but I'm not sure what you're arguing. Are you trying to say that manga feats can't be used or something and that only the webcomic is allowed?

@ecoblitz said:

@lan_fan: there is BoS mel casually with 0 trouble reacting to cloud to ground lightning, mel is over 30 times more powerful and faster. Galan blitzed mel and could escape mid attack from a spell at least hypersonic characters couldn’t react to by miles. He literally vanished in front of hypersonic characters. Galan is So fodder rn to pre 2 power ups mel it’s hilarious. His first power up alone was enough to absolutely humiliate Galan and blitz him before Galan himself could react.

You completely ignored the debunk I gave for Galan's jump on the first page.

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jashugan

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@higherpower:

I'm just skimming through this thread but I'm not sure what you're arguing. Are you trying to say that manga feats can't be used or something and that only the webcomic is allowed?

It was dumb for people to claim that Flashy flash attacked in millisenconds, when the timer was in centiseconds. Users are now scaling between Webcomic & manga when both should be separate, especially when the former has less impressive feats.

I used Flashy Flash as an example because his best feat in webcomic is single digit mach, yet Atomic Samurai in the manga has a feat far superior to that but Flashy Flash in the manga is supposed to be comparable to him.

Pretty much I was correcting people. It would be really funny however if Murata drew the fight between Garou and Flashy Flash in the same manner as the webcomic, you know, with a stopwatch that counts in centiseconds, supporting what was originally there. It would throw all those calc groups off, perhaps they'd just ignore what's actually in the story again.

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higherpower

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#75 higherpower  Moderator

@jashugan:

Webcomic & manga when both should be separate, especially when the former has less impressive feats.

I agree with most of what you said, but in fairness, all the differences the manga has from the webcomic are overseen and approved by ONE, as stated by Murata. He also writes the extra story arcs (like the Super Fight Tournament which wasn't in the webcomic) and the new characters, such as Suiryu and Orochi.

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Hope_w

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PL scaling is trash, AS scaling is trash. This thread is filled with it therefore both sides are trash. Its a stalemate of Garbage.

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Thenewguysnm1

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@hope_w said:

PL scaling is trash, AS scaling is trash. This thread is filled with it therefore both sides are trash. Its a stalemate of Garbage.

for once i agree with hope.

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cromulor

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@jashugan: Yes, I did read the link that's why I'm telling you it doesn't sound correct due to what we know about characters that Flashy Flash is supposed to be faster than. Its result disagrees with everything the series told us about Flashy Flash and it's the only calc I've seen that argues such a low ball for Flashy Flash. The very description given of his Lightspeed Fist attack (changed to Flashy Fist in the manga) was that it takes place in milliseconds when used.

If you need any more evidence about that calc being faulty, I just took a look at the comments and plenty of people got onto this guy for making too many assumptions about the starting distance between Garou and Flashy Flash as well as him admitting his own speculation about the distance between each of Flashy Flash's attacks which (as the reddit user himself said) appear to be occurring from different angles. The very calc he based his off of found a result that was much higher than his, but he just changed around the distance for whatever reason and of course lowering distance lowered the end result. I mean really, how do you go from a widely accepted calc listing Flashy Flash as performing a Mach 38 feat to Flashy Flash being Mach 8 in a follow up calculation done of the same feat. Why should we take the lower number over the higher number when neither of them have any difference besides changing the distance variables and the only context as to why such variables were changed is "I felt like that didn't sound correct"? The higher number fits in more with what OPM would have us believe anyway when comparing to other characters' speeds who aren't speed-based like Flashy Flash.

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jashugan

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@cromulor:

The very description given of his Lightspeed Fist attack (changed to Flashy Fist in the manga) was that it takes place in milliseconds when used.

citation?

Why should we take the lower number over the higher number when neither of them have any difference besides changing the distance variables and the only context as to why such variables were changed is

the first calc assumed they we're much farther than each other but the newer calc assumes they're closer to each other which looks so from the web comic

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Azureus

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Fellas, cut this NNT blitzing OPM God-tiers crap. Murata stated in a stream, that Geryuganshoop was tossing pebbles at relativistic speeds. Saitama caught one and makes the two fellows who can somewhat keep up with him on a similar level. Garou humiliates Mel.

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cromulor

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@jashugan: Except they weren’t “closer”. The panels depicting them are highly unclear because they display things like Garou suddenly being shorter than Flashy but then they’re also the same height in another panel. If you’ve ever looked at the webcomic, you can tell ONE is a bad artist to the point that it’s almost intentional. Assuming things like “5 meters apart” or “1.5 meters between each strike” have no more validity than assuming a longer distance apart or a longer distance between each strike because ONE barely drew it legibly to begin with. I’m not one of those people claiming things like “oh Atomic Samurai is Mach 900” (I don’t even remember where that one comes from) or “OPM characters light speed because Saitama jumped from the moon to Earth quickly”, but not even budging on Flashy Flash being substantially more than Mach 8 when only one guy found that vs other people who found otherwise (such as the guy claiming he was around Mach 38 that your Mach 8 dude based his calc off of, and I read another calc claiming Mach 34 as well) just feels like the reverse end of the extreme.

And this is the description of the Lightspeed Fist from ONE that I took from:

“Flashy Fist (閃光挙, Senkōken): In only a matter of milliseconds, Flash traverses the distance between himself and the opponent and unleashes a barrage of punches”.

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jashugan

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@azureus said:

Saitama caught one and makes the two fellows who can somewhat keep up with him on a similar level.

no one scales to saitama.

@cromulor said:

@jashugan: Except they weren’t “closer”. The panels depicting them are highly unclear because they display things like Garou suddenly being shorter than Flashy but then they’re also the same height in another panel. If you’ve ever looked at the webcomic, you can tell ONE is a bad artist to the point that it’s almost intentional. Assuming things like “5 meters apart” or “1.5 meters between each strike” have no more validity than assuming a longer distance apart or a longer distance between each strike because ONE barely drew it legibly to begin with. I’m not one of those people claiming things like “oh Atomic Samurai is Mach 900” (I don’t even remember where that one comes from) or “OPM characters light speed because Saitama jumped from the moon to Earth quickly”, but not even budging on Flashy Flash being substantially more than Mach 8 when only one guy found that vs other people who found otherwise (such as the guy claiming he was around Mach 38 that your Mach 8 dude based his calc off of, and I read another calc claiming Mach 34 as well) just feels like the reverse end of the extreme.

And this is the description of the Lightspeed Fist from ONE that I took from:

“Flashy Fist (閃光挙, Senkōken): In only a matter of milliseconds, Flash traverses the distance between himself and the opponent and unleashes a barrage of punches”.

He's a bad artist, doesn't mean we should assume these characters a ridiculously far apart when it doesn't look so. It isn't a reverse end of the extreme.

Where did you get that description from? Can you post the scan of the webcomic or manga?

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Azureus

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@jashugan said:
@azureus said:

Saitama caught one and makes the two fellows who can somewhat keep up with him on a similar level.

no one scales to saitama.

I'm not saying there's anyone as powerful as he, but those 2 characters ARE somewhat comparable to him, as both of them did force him to use his most powerful moves. Both of them were able to keep up with him in extended combat, unlike any other prior. So I don't get what you mean specially since this is a casual Saitama, which both are able to contend against.

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jashugan

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@azureus:

as both of them did force him to use his most powerful moves.

No one has forced Saitama to use his most powerful moves or exert any type of effort.

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Azureus

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@jashugan said:

@azureus:

as both of them did force him to use his most powerful moves.

No one has forced Saitama to use his most powerful moves or exert any type of effort.

Serious Series? Those are his strongest moves.

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guleddos

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@azureus said:

Fellas, cut this NNT blitzing OPM God-tiers crap. Murata stated in a stream, that Geryuganshoop was tossing pebbles at relativistic speeds. Saitama caught one and makes the two fellows who can somewhat keep up with him on a similar level. Garou humiliates Mel.

Is there video link of him stating that?

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jashugan

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@azureus: they're not, they're his serious moves

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Azureus

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@jashugan:

Yes they are. He was even in a serious mindset when he threw the punch.

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Azureus

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@guleddos said:
@azureus said:

Fellas, cut this NNT blitzing OPM God-tiers crap. Murata stated in a stream, that Geryuganshoop was tossing pebbles at relativistic speeds. Saitama caught one and makes the two fellows who can somewhat keep up with him on a similar level. Garou humiliates Mel.

Is there video link of him stating that?

There's a video of that...but I don't speak Japanese, but somebody had a transcript that I got the link to. Want it?

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jashugan

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@azureus: throwing a serious punch required no exertion from saitama

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Azureus

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@jashugan said:

@azureus: throwing a serious punch required no exertion from saitama

Who said it did? I said they forced him to his strongest moves. I didn't say Saitama had to use a lot effort in doing it.

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EcoBlitz

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@jashugan: getting serious is effort... hence serious series

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jashugan

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@azureus:

I said they forced him to his strongest moves

They're not his strongest moves is the point. He has serious and super serious moves and even the latter isn't the strongest move he can do.

@ecoblitz said:

getting serious is effort... hence serious series

Please prove this for saitama

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Azureus

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@jashugan:

They're not his strongest moves is the point.

They are, nothing in his arsenal is above them.

He has serious and super serious moves...

Since when does he have a super serious series? The highest seen in both manga and webcomic is serious series.

and even the latter isn't the strongest move he can do.

His Serious Punch and Serious table flip are the strongest of his moves thus far.

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jashugan

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@azureus:

They are, nothing in his arsenal is above them.

His Serious Punch and Serious table flip are the strongest of his moves thus far.

Saitama can do more powerful attacks than the serious moves he's currently shown

Since when does he have a super serious series?

I take that bacc, must've been a bad translation I read

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Azureus

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@jashugan:

Saitama can do more powerful attacks than the serious moves he's currently shown

Possibly judging from Boros' statement, But for now that can't really be said.

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jashugan

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Azureus

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@jashugan said:

@azureus: it can definitely be said

Then what are his strongest attacks if not the serious series?

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LoveEveryone

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Mel wins this low diff. If Garou can fight Mountain Level monsters Meliodas should be Small Country Level.

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vsw

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@loveeveryone: Show me Mel doing Something small country Level.

And Garou isn't Mountain level, he's way

Above that, Have you read the Webcomics?

Garou Blitzes honestly