This is hard because they would both have trouble hurting each other, but Meruem can use his tail as a stabbing weapon so I would probably go with him.
@killerqueen: luffy snacked a lightning bolt out the sky in the skypiea arc, post rose Meruem’s best speed feat is blitzing knuckle basically making him a statue which is barely a double Mach feat from the distance it happened.
That is post rose, which is above pre rose here.
Meruem is somewhere in the double digit Mach’s, while luffy smacked a triple digit Mach lightning bolt out the air.
Kicking away a lightning bolt while heavily nerfed due to carrying a multi hundred ton solid gold ball is still a feat that's magnitudes above Meruem.
But I'll be nice and discount pre skip lightning timing feats to make this more fair. Even then Luffy's striking power and endurance plus his invulnerability to blunt force is more than enough to handle Meruem.
@killerqueen: it is by the end, luffy is consistently shown to break his limits in every tough battle he fights in.
Also lightning timing in skypiea directly ties in with Kalifa reacting to lightning from feet away in enies lobby, the same Kalifa that got wtf blitzed by Sanji who was below gear 2 luffy.
@skrskr: I'm not denying that he was faster by the end, but the feat makes no sense. Skypiea Luffy kicking away a lightning bolt while exhausted and carrying a several hundred ton gold ball would make him way faster than Sanji than he actually is, which is why that second part doesn't make sense as supporting evidence.
@killerqueen: but he is faster than Sanji by the end of enies lobby, just off of doriki numbers you can see the massive stat difference betweeen kalifa and jabra and then the even bigger gap between him and lucci who luffy was keeping you with.
Skypiea sets the precedent for reacting to lightning on panel, then enies lobby they have a fodder character react to lightning fired from feet away, then that same character is fodderized by Sanji who is lower than luffy just based off of who they fight.
It’s a very simple logical progression of speed feats, and comparatively speaking It’s a lot cleaner of a logical progression than most anime’s.
@skrskr: You're thoroughly missing the point. I didn't say that he wasn't faster than Sanji in Enies Lobby, I said that kicking a lightning bolt in his condition and under those circumstances two arcs beforehand would make Sanji slower than him by a degree that isn't accurate to how they're portrayed.
It's not the feats that are illogical, it's what those feats mean for the in-universe standing of the characters that doesn't make a lick of sense.
@killerqueen: Now this is ridiculous. What does Sanji have to do with this ? Plenty of characters were keeping up with Enel. If he wasn't intangible Zorro or Sanji would have simply whooped him. That ball of gold is simply nothing to any of these guys they were one shotting town busters back in East Blue any of them could have carried that with ease it's just nothing. Just one arc before Luffy busted the bedorck of a country lifted it and destroyed a town while out of blood AND poisoned. These are people that can send air beams with a wave of their body. That ball is pointless.
Zorro casually dodges lightning bolts too in that arc. A 5 year old with Obs Haki and no combat ability whatsoever could track him casually. Literally Enel's sole reason for even being a problem for Luffy was his Obs Haki predicting his movements. Next arc fodder reacts to lightning like it's nothing. There is no inconsistency here. Enel had Obs Haki on top of his lightning speed too and Luffy statued him. This is simply beyond lightspeed already. Luffy lolstomps the fodder to oblivion.
@mizzoking: Enel is only as fast as lightning when completely transformed, this is a fact. In regards to the others and their equally iffy lightning timing feats, the same logic that I was referring to in my discussion with the other dude applies.
@killerqueen: Eneru moves at lightning literally anytimes he wants. He just disappears at lightning speed over your head and one shots you. There are absolutely no limits to his movement. All of his attacks or movements are lightning speed. He shoots down lightning from the sky from anywhere anytime. His Obs Haki alone dwarfs lightning speed. Stop it.
@killerqueen: Now this is ridiculous. What does Sanji have to do with this ? Plenty of characters were keeping up with Enel. If he wasn't intangible Zorro or Sanji would have simply whooped him. That ball of gold is simply nothing to any of these guys they were one shotting town busters back in East Blue any of them could have carried that with ease it's just nothing. Just one arc before Luffy busted the bedorck of a country lifted it and destroyed a town while out of blood AND poisoned. These are people that can send air beams with a wave of their body. That ball is pointless.
Zorro casually dodges lightning bolts too in that arc. A 5 year old with Obs Haki and no combat ability whatsoever could track him casually. Literally Enel's sole reason for even being a problem for Luffy was his Obs Haki predicting his movements. Next arc fodder reacts to lightning like it's nothing. There is no inconsistency here. Enel had Obs Haki on top of his lightning speed too and Luffy statued him. This is simply beyond lightspeed already. Luffy lolstomps the fodder to oblivion.
no town buster in East saga, the first Town tier is Enel via Lightning and Crocodile via DF
the strongest in East Blue Arlong is only Building Tier.
@skrskr: You're thoroughly missing the point. I didn't say that he wasn't faster than Sanji in Enies Lobby, I said that kicking a lightning bolt in his condition and under those circumstances two arcs beforehand would make Sanji slower than him by a degree that isn't accurate to how they're portrayed.
It's not the feats that are illogical, it's what those feats mean for the in-universe standing of the characters that doesn't make a lick of sense.
This doesn't make any sense. For all we know Sanji could have done the same thing as well.
Why is it that we discount pre skip lightning timing due to it being "inconsistent"? Sanji blitzed Khalifla and post skip is abundant enough in quad mach feats. Why is it that we only accept these sorts of feats for some verses but want to make up reasons to "debunk" them in others?
When everytime Enel turned into lightning to move it was explicitly fte to Luffy, but yeah pre timeskip lightning timing Luffy is definitely consistent
@killerqueen: Now this is ridiculous. What does Sanji have to do with this ? Plenty of characters were keeping up with Enel. If he wasn't intangible Zorro or Sanji would have simply whooped him. That ball of gold is simply nothing to any of these guys they were one shotting town busters back in East Blue any of them could have carried that with ease it's just nothing. Just one arc before Luffy busted the bedorck of a country lifted it and destroyed a town while out of blood AND poisoned. These are people that can send air beams with a wave of their body. That ball is pointless.
Zorro casually dodges lightning bolts too in that arc. A 5 year old with Obs Haki and no combat ability whatsoever could track him casually. Literally Enel's sole reason for even being a problem for Luffy was his Obs Haki predicting his movements. Next arc fodder reacts to lightning like it's nothing. There is no inconsistency here. Enel had Obs Haki on top of his lightning speed too and Luffy statued him. This is simply beyond lightspeed already. Luffy lolstomps the fodder to oblivion.
no town buster in East saga, the first Town tier is Enel via Lightning and Crocodile via DF
the strongest in East Blue Arlong is only Building Tier.
No. Building was vaped without even being touched and Arlong Park is like the size of an anime Mountain or at bare minimum hill level, it was huge. You know mere sea kings up to that point have busted towns and were casual mountain level and Strawhats were one shotting them left and right ? Luffy was multi town in Alabasta while poisoned. Enel was island level. Arlong wasn't no Building tier.
@worldofruin6: What abundant quad mach feats are you referring to? I believe there are a few things that put gear 4 Luffy at quad mach, but the gap between him and skypea arc Luffy is pretty large. Skypea arc Luffy might be able to react to lightning if it's far enough away, but his movement and attack speed should still be in the low double digit machs.
@alextheboss: What is this guy talking about ? Lightning speed is generally from cloud to ground not from close range either way. How is it not a feat ? Kalifla reacts to it from face to face distances the next arc either way. Enel was only dodging Luffy through Obs Haki when Luffy stopped thinking (UI ?) he would blitz him. His lightning speed was utterly useless. Luffy statued him even though he was lightning incarnate and had Obs Haki. His attack and movement speed was well over lightspeed by end of Skypea.
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