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#101 Posted by Adi_Frost (580 posts) - - Show Bio

A few things.

Adult Naruto and Sasuke are massively stronger than their war arc counterparts in every way, shape or form possible. The only downside that Naruto has is that he doesn't have the TSB anymore. Plus, Naruto can use nature transformations as well that he couldn't do when he was a teen. They are not really relevant in a battle but just trying to showcase his increase in skill and knowledge.

Boruto dodged and tagged Momoshiki by using the jougan which has Otsutsuki powers.

Boruto's final attack was enhanced by Naruto.

I came into the thread to say Madara wins. But after seeing the arguments in this thread from both sides, I have changed my mind and I think Momoshiki wins. I don't think base momoshiki wins but fused momoshiki definitely takes it.

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#102 Posted by HypeBeastCSB15 (1281 posts) - - Show Bio
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#103 Posted by HypeBeastCSB15 (1281 posts) - - Show Bio

A few things.

Adult Naruto and Sasuke are massively stronger than their war arc counterparts in every way, shape or form possible. The only downside that Naruto has is that he doesn't have the TSB anymore. Plus, Naruto can use nature transformations as well that he couldn't do when he was a teen. They are not really relevant in a battle but just trying to showcase his increase in skill and knowledge.

Boruto dodged and tagged Momoshiki by using the jougan which has Otsutsuki powers.

Boruto's final attack was enhanced by Naruto.

I came into the thread to say Madara wins. But after seeing the arguments in this thread from both sides, I have changed my mind and I think Momoshiki wins. I don't think base momoshiki wins but fused momoshiki definitely takes it.

Was i one of the ones to help change your mind?

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#104 Posted by ourmanuel (11409 posts) - - Show Bio

@undre: I'll advise you to get a freaking life before you kill yourself out of suicidal depression. I don't know what kind of mental disarray you have to be in to come into what is supposed to be a civil discussion just to cause trouble.

>literally does a similar thing

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#105 Posted by Gilateen (3729 posts) - - Show Bio

Teen versions are still better than adult versions

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#106 Posted by RuthlessKiller (978 posts) - - Show Bio

@ourmanuel: I see you finally have the courage to tag me instead of making stupid comments that blow up in your face

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#107 Posted by ourmanuel (11409 posts) - - Show Bio

@ruthlesskiller: I have no idea what you’re talking about but ok I guess...

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#108 Posted by RuthlessKiller (978 posts) - - Show Bio

@ourmanuel: I see you have amnesia.

Why do you like making a fool out of yourself?

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#109 Posted by ourmanuel (11409 posts) - - Show Bio

@ruthlesskiller: awww, is the little baby throwing a tantrum? Maybe I should call in a mod to put him in timeout for the things he’s posted on this thread?

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#110 Posted by HypeBeastCSB15 (1281 posts) - - Show Bio

@ourmanuel: I mean you and the rest of the trolls are the wrong ones here so.........

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#111 Posted by batmansolosall (278 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Madara would win. Seems like Naruto and Sasuke had more trouble with Madara than they did with Momoshiki. Also Madara seems to have more ninja skill and intellect than Momoshiki. Buuuuuut Momoshiki could possibly win too thru his sheer rediculous power....IDK dammit lol. Stalemate?!

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#112 Posted by Adi_Frost (580 posts) - - Show Bio

@hypebeastcsb15: Yeah, you and Ruthlesskiller made some really compelling arguments.

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#113 Posted by RuthlessKiller (978 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Madara would win.

Cool thought.

Seems like Naruto and Sasuke had more trouble with Madara than they did with Momoshiki.

No. Momoshiki gave them more trouble. He nullified their greatest asset which was their devastating ninjutsu. Madara didn't.

Also Madara seems to have more ninja skill and intellect than Momoshiki.

Momoshiki was capable of going toe to toe with naruto and sasuke in taijutsu(which they were masters of)

Buuuuuut Momoshiki could possibly win too thru his sheer rediculous power....IDK dammit lol. Stalemate?!

Stomp in momoshiki's favor.

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#114 Posted by Chaos239 (5081 posts) - - Show Bio

Let's see what Madara has

  • Limbo Clones

Let's see what Momoshiki has

  • Superior Physicals
  • Jutsu Nullification
  • Energy Weapon Creation
  • His own 'Jutsu'
  • His rock Golem and other animals

How does Momoshiki not stomp Madara?

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#115 Posted by HypeBeastCSB15 (1281 posts) - - Show Bio
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#116 Edited by Mee09 (5713 posts) - - Show Bio

Madara isn't beating an Otsuki of Momoshiki's tier 1v1. He couldn't even beat Kaguya despite being a much greater threat than her.

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#117 Posted by Gilateen (3729 posts) - - Show Bio
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#118 Posted by Chaos239 (5081 posts) - - Show Bio

@gilateen: People who disagree with the idea a character who was arguably beating Adult Naruto and Sasuke could lose against someone who was stalemated by their weaker Teen Selves.

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#119 Posted by Undre (3289 posts) - - Show Bio

@ruthlesskiller: @chaos239: @mee09: @hypebeastcsb15: All you guys are idiots your basically saying mommoshkie is stronger than hagaroom. Which hagaroom said madara surpassed him and is reaching kaguyas level. And naruto has only half hagaromos power. So you guys are idiots for even debating this. You egnor feats and states. This is getting out of hand

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#120 Posted by Chaos239 (5081 posts) - - Show Bio

@undre: Hagaromo was likely referring to himself without the Juubi.

Also saying 'Madara was almost as strong as Hagaromo' is useless given Momoshiki could very well easily be > Hagaromo by nature of being related to Kaguya herself.

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#121 Posted by Undre (3289 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos239: Hes not talking about his base form thats stupid. He compared madara to him and kaguya the only 2 that had the jubi. And this was when madara had one rinnegan. How is mommoshkie stronger than hagaroom he couldn't beat naruto and sasuke the 2 halves of his power. Your losing brain cells

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#122 Posted by Chaos239 (5081 posts) - - Show Bio

@undre: If you're just going to unintelligently spout insults go ahead.

Madara was stalemated by 2 massively weaker versions of the same guys Momoshiki was matching and even beating at some points. That alone shows he's beyond Madara.

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#123 Edited by Undre (3289 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos239: What makes you think thier stronger. Thats like saying if sakura trained enough she can surpass hagrommo. Your basicly saying since trained enough they surpassed the hagrommo. Which is BJORKING stupid thats not how power works in naruto. Bu training you only improver skill. It doesn't increase chakra reserves,speed or strength. In order to do that you need to eat chakra fruit or get a Dojustu. Which is the exact reason why everyone is trying to get the jubi. Because no ammount of training can increase your power to the level of the jubi

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#124 Posted by Chaos239 (5081 posts) - - Show Bio

@undre: Feats > Statements

Madara was stalemated by 2 weaker versions of Teen Naruto and Sasuke (Their Kaguya and VotE2 selves were stronger) while Momoshiki was doing far better against MUCH, MUCH stronger version of those same characters who could stalemate Madara.

Saying 'Madara is near Hagaromo' doesn't matter when Madara couldn't beat 2 weaker versions of Naruto and Sasuke.

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#125 Posted by RuthlessKiller (978 posts) - - Show Bio
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#126 Posted by Undre (3289 posts) - - Show Bio

@ruthlesskiller: saids the guy that called me mental ill on the bottom of page 2. Yeah band him to

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#127 Posted by RuthlessKiller (978 posts) - - Show Bio

@undre: You started with the insults.

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#128 Posted by Undre (3289 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos239: their not weaker their chakra reserves just dont increase overtime. Already explain. Thats the only way they can get stronger

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#129 Posted by Undre (3289 posts) - - Show Bio
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#130 Posted by Chaos239 (5081 posts) - - Show Bio

@undre: Except clearly not? Sasuke clearly got far stronger between The War and The Last given how he casually annihilated a Konoha sized meteor and Naruto is able to tank country destroying attacks in his Bijuu Mode without any major injury.

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#131 Posted by RuthlessKiller (978 posts) - - Show Bio
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#132 Posted by Renchamp (7777 posts) - - Show Bio

@ruthlesskiller said:

@renchamp@jedixman@juiceboks please ban @undre. He has been nothing but disrespectful.

1) Mods won't ban a user just because you ask. 2) Dishing insults just because someone else started it is still against the rules. Ignore trolls and tag a mod.

Undre: The f-word is banned in text and pictures. You have now been warned.

Moderator
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#133 Posted by RuthlessKiller (978 posts) - - Show Bio

@renchamp: Thanks for the info. Will try to be more civil.

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#134 Posted by Undre (3289 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos239: lol what country level attack? And that meteor was really small compared to the ones the destroyed in the war arc. Madaras meteor was dwafting a sussanoo

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#135 Posted by Renchamp (7777 posts) - - Show Bio

@undre: Further, tone it down.

Moderator
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#136 Posted by Undre (3289 posts) - - Show Bio
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#137 Posted by HypeBeastCSB15 (1281 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos239: when hagaromo said kaguya was greater than him he was referring to himself without the jubi. Also he never said that Madara was stronger than him. He said that Madara was acquiring power similar to his, i.e otsutsuki powers. Ignore undre when he brings that up, because it's false

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#138 Posted by HypeBeastCSB15 (1281 posts) - - Show Bio

@undre: straw man fallacy. Chaos never stated that training can make you stronger than hagoromo. Also, Naruto and sasuke only have half of juubi-less ghost hagoromo, not him at his full power dipshit. Also the speed of shunshin comes from chakra control, so if your chakra control is improved, then so is your shunshin. On top of that, physical training does infact increase your physical speed and strength and your chakra pools increase as you age. So logically base Naruto and Sasuke as adults should easily be stronger than their teen base. Naruto has mastered his toad sage mode, six paths sage mode, got the other half of the kyuubi, and his base is increased. Sasuke mastered his rinnegan, overcame his loss of arm, and has a stronger base. Saying their teen counterparts are stronger at this point point is autistic. Quit spouting misinformation like the're facts and throwing out unintelligent, misspelled insults. You're wrong. Just get over it

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#139 Posted by Undre (3289 posts) - - Show Bio

@hypebeastcsb15: Stop bro hagrommo was talking about his prime form. He compared madara to him and kaguya. And kaguya always had the jubi. Stop watching seththeprogramers videos. After he got the jubi he flat out said he is no longer indras incarnation and is becoming like him and kaguya. And this befor his second and 3rd rinnegan. Funny how you down play.

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#140 Posted by HypeBeastCSB15 (1281 posts) - - Show Bio

@undre said:

@hypebeastcsb15: Stop bro hagrommo was talking about his prime form. He compared madara to him and kaguya. And kaguya always had the jubi. Stop watching seththeprogramers videos. After he got the jubi he flat out said he is no longer indras incarnation and is becoming like him and kaguya. And this befor his second and 3rd rinnegan. Funny how you down play.

Prove he was talking about his prime form.

That was to my knowledge never stated and he would still be indras reincarnation, as he is an otsutsuki as well, so your point is mere headcanon.

Kaguya is literally the juubi fool.

Seththeprogramer would turn you to dust in a debate.

Funny how you don't know the series, and downplay momoshiki on top of that.

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#141 Edited by Undre (3289 posts) - - Show Bio

@hypebeastcsb15: https://goo.gl/images/5tEuRj

For some reason i cant post scans. And i have already debated seththeprogramer in discord. Dued is even worse than you guys at power scaling

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#142 Posted by Gilateen (3729 posts) - - Show Bio

@hypebeastcsb15:

Your a huge momoshiki fanboy aren’t you?

Madara is immortal, momoshiki isn’t.

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#143 Posted by HypeBeastCSB15 (1281 posts) - - Show Bio

@undre said:

@hypebeastcsb15: https://goo.gl/images/5tEuRj

For some reason i cant post scans. And i have already debated seththeprogramer in discord. Dued is even worse than you guys at power scaling

Trying to get close to me an my mother's power=/=being as strong as them

I know seth and have spoken to him in discord. What's your name in his server, so i can ask if this is true.

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#144 Posted by HypeBeastCSB15 (1281 posts) - - Show Bio

@gilateen said:

@hypebeastcsb15:

Your a huge momoshiki fanboy aren’t you?

Madara is immortal, momoshiki isn’t.

Not really. I'm just not an idiot

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#145 Posted by Undre (3289 posts) - - Show Bio

@hypebeastcsb15: pineal gland. But i got band months ago. Dued even said dari form boruto can beat hashirama

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#146 Posted by HypeBeastCSB15 (1281 posts) - - Show Bio

@undre said:

@hypebeastcsb15: pineal gland. But i got band months ago. Dued even said dari form boruto can beat hashirama

He can -_-. And people in seths server were saying you were nothing but garbage. Nice try tho

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#147 Posted by Undre (3289 posts) - - Show Bio

@hypebeastcsb15: lol so you think darui is stronger than hasihrama? Im not mind controlled like everyone els in seths discord

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#148 Posted by HypeBeastCSB15 (1281 posts) - - Show Bio
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#149 Posted by great_black_star (3333 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos239 said:

Let's see what Madara has

  • Limbo Clones

Let's see what Momoshiki has

  • Superior Physicals
  • Jutsu Nullification
  • Energy Weapon Creation
  • His own 'Jutsu'
  • His rock Golem and other animals

How does Momoshiki not stomp Madara?

Madara has

  • Tons of Ninjutsu and many yin-yang release
  • Has vast knowledge of sealing and barrier which he taught to Obito
  • Also has ninjutsu nullification if you forgot. It was just PIS that he was made to use it again, becaoz at war it was specifically told to alliance that ninjutsu is useless to Madara.
  • Has TSB weapons
  • Has Juubi
  • Has insane regeneration, which Momoshiki doesn't have
  • Have IT which can oneshot Momoshiki

Madara has outclass Momoshiki in almost every category, except for maybe speed and strength. But Madara hundreds of time more intelligent and know how to battle.

I will still give Madara the win.

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#150 Posted by Revold (752 posts) - - Show Bio

@revold said:

For those who say adult forms are much stronger, both Naruto and Sasuke were nerfed but still defeated Momoshiki. But against Madara they literally couldn’t even touch him (they tried to seal him) and was stated to have no way of defeating him by Kishimoto.

This is a denying the antecedent fallacy. While Momoshiki did fail to beat Naruto and Sasuke, while Madara had the possibility of doing so, You're ignoring the fact that Momoshiki lost to stronger forms of the duo, while Madara had the possibility of beating a weaker versions. Adult Sasuke was drained from interdimensional travel and adult Naruto from having his chakre being absorbed, but teen Naruto had split himself up into thousands of clones, gave enough chakra to a few thousand shinobi to power them up by 3x their own chakra levels, while both of them fought several battles non-stop in a war and fired off tons of chakra expensive jutsu. So they would conceivably be a way more weakened than the adult versions. Who madara still could have lost to.

Not correct for a few reasons:

  • Naruto said himself that he used Kurama Sage Mode, a more efficient form of Sage Mode, to replenish his chakra during the war. Meanwhile Adult Naruto can't do the same as they were fighting in the barren wasteland, with natural energy already sucked dry by the Otsutsuki clan.
  • It wasn't non-stop as Naruto was unconcious right before his fight against Madara.
  • Hagoromo literally gave him chakra.
  • He literally had a fresh Kyuubi before fighting Madara. It is different from the one he share the chakra with Shinobi Alliance.
  • By your logic, I can say the same that the Yang Kurama in Adult Naruto doesn't have as much chakra as you claim. Especially when he actually disintegrated from Indra's arrow.

For the sake of argument, I'm saying Naruto from Madara's fight has the same amount of chakra as Naruto in Momoshiki fight. That is already lowball.

Momoshiki can’t absorb anything he wants. For example he can’t absorb Susanoo if used as defense, nor could he absorb Chibaku Tensei which Madara can made them rain in final form.

Wouldn't need to, he'd break the susanoo and break out of the chibaku tensei, like he did to adult sasuke(who is stronger than three eyed madara)

Adult Sasuke is weaker than 3 eyed Madara for a few reasons:

  • Madara has larger chakra reserves. This is no brainer. His Susanoo is the size of the Juubi which massively dwarfs Sasuke's.
  • Madara have everything Sasuke has except Amenojikara, portal opening. Madara gains Preta and Deva path after obtaining the second Rinnegan, in case if you're wondering why he didn't use Preta Path against Naruto's Lava Rasenshuriken.
  • Madara is highly resistant to Ninjutsu, leaving Sasuke with only Taijutsu since he don't have Sage Mode.
  • Madara is one of the best fighter in Shinobi history.

And also, Madara's Chibaku Tensei is different from Sasuke's. He rains meterors from the sky, not contain him in one. And I have not seen him breaking a Susanoo before. Even Kurama avatar, which is usually deemed same if not weaker than Susanoo, managed to contain the size of Momoshiki's bomb within the radius of a soccer field.

They wouldn't be strong enough or fast enough to do any damage. They'd just be more madaras to him

In Ultimate Ninja Storm 4 they are portrayed as being able to use Susanoo themselves (regular sized ones). Yes it's non-canon, but it isn't hard to believe either considering Naruto's Shadow Clones and Edo Madara's wood clones were able to do the same.

Coming back to the topic:

  1. Sasuke's statement on "a threat greater than Kaguya" was based on the fact that he just learned that Kaguya was preparing a Zetsu army, which logically speaking it is absolutely true. He wasn't referring to the original Otsutsuki clan because he has no idea about their existence, but doesn't Kaguya wasn't preparing the Zetsu army for them.
  2. When Kaguya was preparing the Zetsu army, she was much weaker than the Rabbit form in modern day so much so she is incapable of chakra-taxing abilities such as environment change, portal creation and ETSB. So while you can argue Momoshiki is more powerful than ancient Kaguya, the modern Kaguya has feats way above Momoshiki.
  3. Madara, again, has everything Momoshiki has. Momoshiki's absorption is basically Madara's Preta Path. Not to mention Madara is highly resistant to Ninjutsu physically. Meaning Madara can still hurt Momoshiki if he manages to avoid his right palm (like Sasuke's chidori), but Momoshiki can't damage him with Ninjutsu anyway he hits, since he is incapable of Senjutsu either as far as I know.
  4. So it comes down to Taijutsu. For fighting skills there is no way to prove which one is superior. Madara is the most skilled in Shinobi history but you can just say Momoshiki's performance was not bad. As for speed, that depends on the chakra levels.
  5. Madara's chakra reserves are definitely larger than Momoshiki's for reasons I have stated. Momoshiki absorbed the 8-tails and half of nine tails, all of which Madara already has plus the other Tailed Beasts, plus the God Tree, plus Six Paths Senjutsu, depending on battle location. If you say that base Momoshiki is already that of those other tailed beasts, maybe because he defeated Bee, remember than Kinshiki was also there. So there is absolutely no way of proving that.
  6. Instead, because Naruto and Sasuke were nerfed, not only in terms of chakra reserves, but Sasuke also lost his dominant hand which greatly hinders his Taijutsu (which is more important because its their main move against Momoshiki).
  7. Teen Sasuke and Naruto wasn't aiming to defeat Madara. They were aiming to just touch him. I have to emphasise this because even if you argue that adults are way stronger, not even able to touch him just deteriorates your argument even more.

P.S. I've watched some of SeththeProgrammer's videos. Some of the things are just factually wrong like Madara's Tengai Shinsei being multi continental, Hagoromo having "spammable Izanagi" or Sasuke stronger than Madara. Can't go too in-depth into all of these.