Momoshiki (Boruto) Vs Julius Novachrono (Balck Clover)

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Expo7

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Both at their strongest

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Momoshiki

VS

Julius Novachrono

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Zuriel-el

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Momoshiki wins, Julius can't put him down, all forms of energy get absorbed, julius dies.

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deactivated-6019e88460d57

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@zuriel-el said:

Momoshiki wins, Julius can't put him down, all forms of energy get absorbed, julius dies.

Energies aren't equalized so I doubt that's happening.

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Namebk

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Julius stomps

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Wanderez

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Sanjee007

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Momoshiki blitz & stomps

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Zuriel-el

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@eazy2002: Then you're nerfing Momoshiki unfairly, while leaving julius with all his powers.

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ragegod

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Julius bodies the fodder.

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Gokukid2005

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#9  Edited By Gokukid2005

Momoshiki blitzes and one-shots as usual.


Black Clover characters can't do much against people just as, if not faster than them, with means to one shot.

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Bink_69

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Could go either way really. They should be around the same speed, and both can one shot each other

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ragegod

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@gokukid2005: And yet even if Momoshiki was as fast as he is in your headcanon, Julius is the one with precog here.

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Gokukid2005

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@ragegod: Ah yes Precog, that made him barely react to light speed. And when he didn't activate it before hand he got blitzed completely.

And I didn't know headcanon was consistent feats and scaling from a series, but pop off I guess.

We've had this discussion before, let's just agree to disagree cause I see no need to engage in this.

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ragegod

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@gokukid2005: More like you can't hence you running off from our last discussion. Again, Julius held back, which you ignore. He literally aged Patri's arm during their first encounter. And why should that matter when no one in Naruto is light speed to begin with? Mr. senjutsu = natural elements lol

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Gokukid2005

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Yep no need to discuss with delusional people

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ragegod

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Saxz

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Julius stomps, he blitz Momo and erases him from existence.

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citgo

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LoL Momoshiki bodies, dude goes planet to planet fighting its inhabitants who dont have chakra and his m.o is legit to absorb shit and one shot.

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TheEmperor95

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Does momoshiki age? If he does then he dies horribly if not then he wins handily

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CyberBlades22

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Isn't Momo immortal with longevity so doesn't aging get negge'd, as for time stop Momo did so in the manga and Urashiki can use time freezes but Momo was still above him so I don't think that would work either, for speed it might go either way if we scale using the Naruto dodging photon gun in the novel in base weakened form. This means Julius pretty much has no options so he loses here badly.

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Wanderez

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as for time stop Momo did so in the manga and Urashiki can use time freezes but Momo was still above him so I don't think that would work either

Being above someone doesnt magically give you resistance/immunity to their powers.

for speed it might go either way if we scale using the Naruto dodging photon gun in the novel in base weakened form. This means Julius pretty much has no options so he loses here badly.

Dodging a LS attack doesnt make you instantaneously FTL, there are many factors that affect the feat, besides the already very questionable narrative.

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Wanderez

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#21  Edited By Wanderez

@cyberblades22:

Say the photon gun had to travel 5 meters in order to reach Naruto. Thats like, low end relativistic reaction speed.

Same with Aaraniero dodging light during his fight with Rukia, everyone just assumes FTL when its not even close. Or Negacion. Muh thats FTL, outlier.

Even assuming Naruto dodging straight on LF, thats still nowhere near LS, let alone FTL.

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Shinobiroar

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@wanderez: A sick half dead Naruto dodged light photons in base retsuden novel which is cannon ;)

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Saxz

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@cyberblades22:

Why is Naruto reacting to a photon gun an impressive feat against Julius? That's something Black clover mid tiers can do and Julius can blitz those guys.

Otsusuki needs Chakra fruit to maintain thier longevity and immortality,which means they aren't completely immortal. Also Julius has time stop.

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Wanderez

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@shinobiroar:

I know, i was talking about the way he dodged it.

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CyberBlades22

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@wanderez:

Being above someone doesnt magically give you resistance/immunity to their powers.

Sasuke has resistance to timestop via rinnegan and Momo also has rinnegan. Even if that's the case Momo has already displayed time stop thus granting him resistance to time stop since he can still move.

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Dodging a LS attack doesnt make you instantaneously FTL, there are many factors that affect the feat, besides the already very questionable narrative.

Never said it does. The Naruto that dodged that was a weakened younger base Naruto who couldn't use chakra, the Naruto that Momo fought is at bare minimum (lowball) dozens of times faster then that with better precog. Agreed, but other characters have reacted to lightspeed attacks before, like Naruto with light fang, and Madara reacting against the heavenly transfer jutsu.

Edo Madara reacting to Tsunade and Ay being transported towards him at the speed of light while Madara was unknowingly rushing in

Fused Momo scales above this. Even saying he's slower there is nothing Julius can do since Momo is immune to timestop and can't be aged due to longevity immortality and his multi country AOE attack will inveitbly either kill Julius or force him to use up his mana for chrono anastasis leaving him open for attack.

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CyberBlades22

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#26  Edited By CyberBlades22

@saxz: Because that was sick base Naruto who couldn't even use chakra, that Naruto would get blitzed by Fused Momo easily, even a Naruto in base who wasn't as weakened as the Naruto in the novel was getting blitzed alongside Sasuke by Fused Momo toying around with them.

While that's true, you would have to prove that Julius can age Momo to the point that his chakra pills longevity effect expires.

Momo has timestop too.

Also forgot that he has Karma possession to win as well.

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Wanderez

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#27  Edited By Wanderez

@cyberblades22:

Sasuke has indeed displayed resistance, but its very, very limited.

And Momoshiki iirc displayed time stop when he died, no? I dont think he should have that ability while he's alive.

Weakened Naruto is weakened Naruto, you cant just assume his perfect condition speed. You can simply say he's faster than his weakened state, because even if you were to x10 the feat (using the 5 meters distance), that'd still make him at best x2 FTL. Nvm, sorry, im busy rn, therefore idk what im saying. Its a little above LS. As for the Transportation jutsu, im willing to believe they reacted to the flash of light, not to the speed itself.

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Asurakj

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Momo wins since Julius doesn't have any advantage. Momo is faster and stronger. He can absorb energy and has immortality with a feat showing time stop.

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CyberBlades22

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@wanderez: It depends, if Sasuke could move and chose not to then not really. If Sasuke can only use his eye then agreed.

Yeah but it makes no sense for him to only have that ability in his weakened base form after death since that's form he took and karma users get weakened heavily after placing karma, so I don't see why his resistance to time stop wouldn't still apply.

Against Momoshiki he had 50% of his chakra absorbed but could still fight and use jutsus, in the novel Naruto could not use chakra at all and was really sick so he was more weakened here, and since chakra allows amplifies a persons stats then Naruto without being able to use chakra would be even more weakened then his base version that Momo while toying around blitzed. Sure, but that's base sick Naruto vs base Naruto weakened Naruto in the Momo fight, Momoshiki is around even in speed to KCM amped SPSM 50% Naruto, and KCM amped SPSM is a huge boost to stats including speed. So based on this scaling Momo should be able to react to Julius' speed. The aura of light was around the two kage who were launched at that speed, I'm pretty sure Madara reacted to the actual speed of the transportation while he rushed in unbeknownst to him that 2 kages would get transported into his face at light speed.

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Saxz

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@cyberblades22:

It doesnt matter if he was sick, it was still a relativistic feat at best, the fact that he could perform it in base it's impressive but that's it. That doesn't mean he can suddenly blitz guys who are FTL without no speed to speak off.

Well I can't prove that he can age past his longevity, but Julius can has aged a young man to ash in an instant,where even the bones don't remain, something like that take hundreds- thousands of years. He can spam that sort of attack. So it's on you to prove just how good Momo immortality is. And there's always timestop.

I am sorry, Momo has timestop as much as Ichigo does. Basically useless and non combat applicable, and that's assuming it's even time stop in the first place. Even the anime portrays it differently. Anyway it doesn't matter it's not combat applicable.

Karma's possession is not combat applicable, Like it or not The battle between Momoshiki Vs Naruto/Boruto/Sasuke, Momoshiki lost nobody cares if he ressurects himself in a decade. In battle forums it's not a win condition, your opponents loses if he isn't able to fight for hours. A karma possession that take years is irrelevant.

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CyberBlades22

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@saxz: He was sick and couldn't use chakra at all while in base, fused Momo is a rival in speed to SPSM Naruto who is massively above his sick base version that couldn't even use chakra (which amps every ninjas stats). I never said Momo would blitz Julius, I just said he should be able to keep up based on scaling above that Naruto massively.

That's impressive but that guy who got aged to dust couldn't react at all to Julius, if a person has speed like Patri then they can move mid aging and only come out with a aged body part, on the verge of decay but not aged to dust. Momo has survived +1000 years via his pills (significantly weaker pills) so he shouldn't have problem with the age beam. Momo has resistance to timestop, even Sasuke does.

Never said it's combat applicable, my arguement was that time stop won't work since Momo can move in time and while dead has stopped time, so Julius shouldn't be able to time stop Momo. The anime has a lot of differences to the manga, but that doesn't make the manga events different or non canon. Just because the anime took a different route when giving Boruto karma doesn't mean that the manga version isn't time stop. Sasuke and Boruto both note time to be stopped and we see that time had indeed stopped, and that Momo and his vessel Boruto who he chose to speak to are the only ones to move in time stop (also Sasuke who was able to see the whole confrontation with his rinnegan and might possibly be able to move in stopped time). Even if it's not combat applicable (which could be due to Momo's arrogant personality not using all his abilities) it still doesn't take away from the fact that Momo can still move if someone uses timestop.

The karma possession actually takes above a few weeks or a few months max. That's still a technical win, OP didn't specify that it isn't a win condition. Taking away karma is like taking away fused Zamasu's universal form after he dies.

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BleachHub

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Momoshiki wins, Julius can't put him down, all forms of energy get absorbed, julius dies.

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BleachHub

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BleachHub

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Momoshiki blitzes and one-shots as usual.

Black Clover characters can't do much against people just as, if not faster than them, with means to one shot.

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BleachHub

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Probably should have put these into one comment, but yeah.

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deactivated-5fd3a2d04b3e1

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Julius blitzes and oneshots

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Bleachtardbelik

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Hello, unfortunately in this battle, Momoshiki solos Black Clover verse. Lock this mismatch battle.

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Uchiha_Indra

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Momoshiki stomps

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deactivated-5ff28288e0b69

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Saxz

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@cyberblades22:

You don't understand. I get that SPSM is far above a Sick Naruto. However that doesn't suddenly put him at Julius level, you'd need a speed feat for that. Why? Because Saying he scales massively above his sick self is extremely vague and would make a messed up scale. The only thing that feat tell me is SPSM Naruto is far above relativistic but how far above is unknown, in other words what that feat definitely proves is he can definitely outspeed relativistic characters in SPSM not that he can keep up with FTL characters,Especially someone like Julius who is decently above FTL characters and can outspeed FTL characters.

Still don't get it??? It's like me making this weird scaling chain, Gauche is relativistic, Asta scales massively above Gauche so that means Asta must be FTL, Magic knight scales massively above Asta so magic knights must be FTL +, then the wizard king is massively above magic knight making Julius MFTL. Weird right?.

The beam he used against those guys was different from the one he used against Patri. Against Patri he was taken with surprise so I think he just hit him his aura. But against those guys he used a sort of rasengan shaped beam that ages you instantly as soon as it touches you.

Through that thousand years, we don't know how many pills Momo had to take. So it's kinda hard to figure that out. Momo may survive the first 2 or 3 blasts,but I don't think he is surviving being hit by a dozen.

While dead his soul or consciousness or whatever has a sort of time stop when he implants Karma, well for starters this isn't dead Momo. We know for a fact that alive Momo doesn't have time stop or anything resembling it,It's not about be arrogant either, Momoshiki loved stomping his opponents and his neck was on the ropes like 3 times before his death, if he had such a handy ability, he would have used it. I am calling it time stop but its likely not even time stop.both Boruto and Sasuke only thought it seemed time had stopped, however it may just have to do with the karma implantation ritual..... i only mentioned the anime because if the time stop move was a big part of Momo's character they wouldn't have changed it. Ultimately it doesn't matter, he did whatever time stop feat while dead, making it irrelevant in this battle using alive fused Momo. ghost Momo can likely walk through walk through walls, it doesn't mean we should give alive Momo that ability.

Lol the Karma possession doesn't take a few weeks, what are you talking about bro? We have Kawaki and Boruto as living proof and their Karma progression is considered way faster than normal. Boruto has clearly had his Karma for months and Kawaki has had his far longer than that. This is based on a bit of assumption but years later(after the timeskip) Boruto still has his karma. It's clearly not applicable as a win condition.

Even if the OP didn't specify, it's standard battle assumptions, your opponents loses when he can no longer fight (usually for hours at least). my DBS knowledge is shakey so forgive me if I don't get your Zamasu reference, But IIRC Zamasu has countless clones of himself as long as those clones can come assist within minutes, it's fair game. It's a far cry from Karma.

A better example would be winning a match against an opponent you can't damage with Genjutsu. Genjutsu knock out only lasts for hours at most. Won't you consider that a win for the Genjutsu user??. Or consider a BFR to another continent, technically the opponent could always come back but it's a win by BFR all the same.

Anyways this is irrelevant to Julius, As Julius can easily rewind his time and neg Momoshiki from his body.

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Edd57

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Julius gets karma after he high diff momo.

Not only can he see the future, mana zone allow him to react to high speed movement and control and speed up his time. And as well bypass durability, the fact momo needs to absorb chakra and eat the chakra fruit to keep his youth iirc , Julius can age him .

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Bleachtardbelik

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Hello, unfortunately in this battle, Momoshiki solos Black Clover verse. Lock this mismatch battle.

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citgo

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Momoshiki legit blitzes.

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CyberBlades22

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@saxz said:

@cyberblades22:

You don't understand. I get that SPSM is far above a Sick Naruto. However that doesn't suddenly put him at Julius level, you'd need a speed feat for that. Why? Because Saying he scales massively above his sick self is extremely vague and would make a messed up scale. The only thing that feat tell me is SPSM Naruto is far above relativistic but how far above is unknown, in other words what that feat definitely proves is he can definitely outspeed relativistic characters in SPSM not that he can keep up with FTL characters,Especially someone like Julius who is decently above FTL characters and can outspeed FTL characters.

Still don't get it??? It's like me making this weird scaling chain, Gauche is relativistic, Asta scales massively above Gauche so that means Asta must be FTL, Magic knight scales massively above Asta so magic knights must be FTL +, then the wizard king is massively above magic knight making Julius MFTL. Weird right?.

The beam he used against those guys was different from the one he used against Patri. Against Patri he was taken with surprise so I think he just hit him his aura. But against those guys he used a sort of rasengan shaped beam that ages you instantly as soon as it touches you.

Through that thousand years, we don't know how many pills Momo had to take. So it's kinda hard to figure that out. Momo may survive the first 2 or 3 blasts,but I don't think he is surviving being hit by a dozen.

While dead his soul or consciousness or whatever has a sort of time stop when he implants Karma, well for starters this isn't dead Momo. We know for a fact that alive Momo doesn't have time stop or anything resembling it,It's not about be arrogant either, Momoshiki loved stomping his opponents and his neck was on the ropes like 3 times before his death, if he had such a handy ability, he would have used it. I am calling it time stop but its likely not even time stop.both Boruto and Sasuke only thought it seemed time had stopped, however it may just have to do with the karma implantation ritual..... i only mentioned the anime because if the time stop move was a big part of Momo's character they wouldn't have changed it. Ultimately it doesn't matter, he did whatever time stop feat while dead, making it irrelevant in this battle using alive fused Momo. ghost Momo can likely walk through walk through walls, it doesn't mean we should give alive Momo that ability.

Lol the Karma possession doesn't take a few weeks, what are you talking about bro? We have Kawaki and Boruto as living proof and their Karma progression is considered way faster than normal. Boruto has clearly had his Karma for months and Kawaki has had his far longer than that. This is based on a bit of assumption but years later(after the timeskip) Boruto still has his karma. It's clearly not applicable as a win condition.

Even if the OP didn't specify, it's standard battle assumptions, your opponents loses when he can no longer fight (usually for hours at least). my DBS knowledge is shakey so forgive me if I don't get your Zamasu reference, But IIRC Zamasu has countless clones of himself as long as those clones can come assist within minutes, it's fair game. It's a far cry from Karma.

A better example would be winning a match against an opponent you can't damage with Genjutsu. Genjutsu knock out only lasts for hours at most. Won't you consider that a win for the Genjutsu user??. Or consider a BFR to another continent, technically the opponent could always come back but it's a win by BFR all the same.

Anyways this is irrelevant to Julius, As Julius can easily rewind his time and neg Momoshiki from his body.

Not saying it puts him at Julius level of speed, but that's still far far faster then base sick Naruto. Relativistic begins at 10% SOL, all you would have to do is prove Naruto that fought Momo is above x10 that speed which is not hard to do considering even curse mark which is far inferior to the SPSM multiplier multiplies stats by x10, KCM+SPSM multiplies those stats even higher then that. Also it's not really messed up scaling since lots of series like DBZ, DBS, GOH etc all use numbers or stat multipliers to explain levels of speed which is widely accepted.

Except we don't have numbers for black clover characters speed, while we have stat multipliers in Naruto that allows us to make approximations of their speed.

I'm pretty sure the beam he used on Patri was stronger, I doubt Julius would use a stronger attack on fodders he can easily statue and instead choose to hold back his stronger attack on a obviously stronger and faster opponent who he should be able to tell is easily above those fodders. The main difference would just be the shape, like how Yami can shape his darkness into different forms, same with Patri's light magic.

We have Isshiki who lived for over a thousand years half dead in a human body, Momo and him are the race so I would say the pills last a pretty long time.

It's plot, just like how Madara and Kaguya suddenly stopped absorbing jutsus and other rinnegan users stopped using their eyes, since using their full abilities would allow them to win 10/10 times. This ability would still apply to Momo in his alive form if a weaker version of him can do it. Sasuke and Boruto even said time stopped so there's no denying it, and Sasuke with his rinnegan had resistance to it so it's fair to say Momo with his rinnegan also has the same resistance. It's not really irrelevant, I don't see why dead Momo would have a ability that alive prime Momo in fused state wouldn't, it's like me saying Juubi Madara doesn't have susanoo because he didn't use it. The ghost intangibility example is different as that would be something Momo would only have in that specific form, similar to edo immortality, but jutsus like wood release or etc would still apply to alive forms same thing with Momo's timeskip. Arrogance or plot is likely the reason he didn't choose to use it, a smart fighter like Sasuke with preta path didn't even absorb Momo's jutsus despite doing so earlier in the series against Naruto, plot restricted them both.

It's been months at most, I don't think a year past since no such statement has been made IIRC. So while it may not take weeks (unless Julius uses karma a lot, or has Momo takeover), it still doesn't take a year to my knowledge for it to activate and even then it's still a over time victory. It's true they still have karma after the timeskip but Kawaki had to have received it again and we don't know when or how, but it seems Isshiki was in control, for Boruto I'm not sure why but it seems he through some means suppressed his karma even though it's currently 80% done.

Yes, but Karma is clearly different from most abilities it's like a curse that activates over time and Momo technichally would still have intent to fight as a karma trying to take over his opponent. For the fused Zamasu example I'm reffering to how anime Zamasu was over time going to go from universal+ to multiversal so say there's a opponent Zamasu can't damage with universal+ AP while his oppoenent can't damage incorporeal Zamasu (even though he killed Zamasu's actual body, which activates his conciousness to take over the universe), this forces Zamasu to go to multiversal form which takes a really long time and since it takes a long time we should assume Zamasu loses. The example of the clones you brought up is the manga version which I agree with your interpretation of since Zamasu can't actually die there, but in the anime universal Zamasu activates when he dies and over time he becomes multiversal and also invades other timelines.

Those examples however are different from Karma in function, since Momo is still alive during karma and begins to take over a person over time similar to a curse. Like for instance if Guy kills a weaker opponent while in 8 gates and later dies we assume it's a stalemate even if he kills the opponent in a fraction of second and dies only minutes later, even though Guy technically won.

Would time reversal work on Karma since it's technically not a injury, and IIRC Julius can't reverse time to bring people back to life but reversing time on karma would technically just bring back Momo in alive form pre karma.

I still see Momo winning here due to his advantages and speed scaling.

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GarouHM

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Julius stomps.

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Death8Dragon

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I think Momo stomps or Momo stomps