Mister Miracle vs Kakashi

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#1 Posted by Ouroborik (4111 posts) - - Show Bio

Mister Miracle

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Kakashi Hatake

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Details

  • Pre-Flashpoint Scott Free
  • End of Naruto Kakashi
  • Standard equipment for both
  • In-character (which means Scott will never use the Anti-Life Equation)
  • Random encounter
  • Win by any means

Location:

No Caption Provided

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#2 Posted by Dee420 (172 posts) - - Show Bio

Miracle should stomp this

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#3 Posted by MoneyyJunee (1124 posts) - - Show Bio

Miracle stomps.

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#4 Posted by Ouroborik (4111 posts) - - Show Bio

@dee420 said:

Miracle should stomp this

Miracle stomps.

Those are very bold statements. Reasons?

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#5 Posted by Yamiyodare (2113 posts) - - Show Bio

Miracle shitstomps.

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#6 Posted by jashro44 (54455 posts) - - Show Bio

Miracle stomps.

@dee420 said:

Miracle should stomp this

Miracle shitstomps.

Miracle is fast but as far as I know his advantages end there. Why are you guys saying he stomps?

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#7 Posted by Ouroborik (4111 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:
@moneyyjunee said:

Miracle stomps.

@dee420 said:

Miracle should stomp this

@yamiyodare said:

Miracle shitstomps.

Miracle is fast but as far as I know his advantages end there. Why are you guys saying he stomps?

Miracle may not even be faster than Kakashi, his best feat is dodging Orion at blur-speeds. His best advantage in this battle is the Alpha Effect and he doesn't have that many combat feats with it.

I honestly don't know what this guys are talking about when they say Miracle stomps. I thought this was a pretty fair fight when I made it.

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#8 Edited by jashro44 (54455 posts) - - Show Bio

@ouroborik: Well Orion in the same run did catch a bullet without looking and Miracle seemed pretty casual, despite Orion clearly using his speed.

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#9 Posted by jashro44 (54455 posts) - - Show Bio

@ouroborik: Oh does Kakashi have his sharingan here or is this kakashi without the sharingan?

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#10 Posted by Ouroborik (4111 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@ouroborik: Well Orion in the same run did catch a bullet without looking and Miracle seemed pretty casual, despite Orion clearly using his speed.

Yeah, I can see Miracle being fast enough to keep up and surpass Kakashi (depending on how fast people believe Kakashi to be) but as far as I know Kakashi has ninja hax to even the odds.

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#11 Posted by Ouroborik (4111 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@ouroborik: Oh does Kakashi have his sharingan here or is this kakashi without the sharingan?

He has it.

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#12 Posted by KratoDaManto (933 posts) - - Show Bio

Miracle stomps.

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#13 Posted by jashro44 (54455 posts) - - Show Bio
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#14 Posted by jashro44 (54455 posts) - - Show Bio
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#16 Posted by omnipaper6 (572 posts) - - Show Bio

miracle one-shots mismatch against kakashi (since no equalized stats)

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#17 Edited by Ouroborik (4111 posts) - - Show Bio

miracle one-shots mismatch against kakashi (since no equalized stats)

Lol based on what feats? Please show me.

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#18 Posted by Au_141 (1117 posts) - - Show Bio

@ouroborik: With the Alpha Effect didn’t he beat the Black Racer. It’s been a while so I don’t remember.

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#19 Posted by Ouroborik (4111 posts) - - Show Bio

@au_141 said:

@ouroborik: With the Alpha Effect didn’t he beat the Black Racer. It’s been a while so I don’t remember.

He did, but that has nothing to do with stats and Kakashi has just as many ways to beat Scott.

Saying this fight is a mismatch is ridiculous, especially because all the people who said it was a mismatch haven't even dared to answer my replies and give any justification, which makes me think those guys are just trolling or hating.

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#20 Edited by DiarrheaRegatta (6978 posts) - - Show Bio

@ouroborik: Or they just don't know about the capabilities of one or both of the characters. It happens a lot, lol.

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#21 Posted by Au_141 (1117 posts) - - Show Bio

@ouroborik: This is true. Personally Scott’s physical stats have always been hard to remember unless I just read about him. So I don’t know who wins here. I know Kamui could be problematic but other than that I don’t remember the specifics about Kakashi either.(At least what would be relevant)

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#22 Posted by Ouroborik (4111 posts) - - Show Bio

@ouroborik: Or they just don't know about the capabilities of one or both of the characters. It happens a lot, lol.

Then why are they talking about stomps?

In fact, what is going on in this thread so that one of the Vine's most popular franchises is getting no attention whatsoever while a character who barely gets any representation is getting wanked? When I made the thread I actually thought I would be the one repping Miracle against the opposition. I hoped to at least spark the Naruto fans attention for some good debate. But even with Naruto involved I can't get any bumps on the thread from real debaters. Jashro tried but no one is arguing back.

Damn, I'm so sick and tired of the MCU occupying the front page. I'm glad that people like you are still actively trying to rep the comics though, if only those were the majority.

Sorry for the rant.

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#23 Posted by Adamantine (655 posts) - - Show Bio

If bullet time is his speed Kakashi has him beat by large margin in speed.

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#24 Posted by Ouroborik (4111 posts) - - Show Bio

@au_141 said:

@ouroborik: This is true. Personally Scott’s physical stats have always been hard to remember unless I just read about him. So I don’t know who wins here. I know Kamui could be problematic but other than that I don’t remember the specifics about Kakashi either.(At least what would be relevant)

Scott's stats seem all over the place depending on the story but at his best we know for a fact that his speed is vastly superhuman and he is skilled/strong enough to take on groups of Parademons. Add to that his technology and the Alpha Effect hax and we got a very unique glass canon-ish superhuman.

Which I think is pretty much the same description we can give to Kakashi.

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#25 Edited by WollfMyth209 (17311 posts) - - Show Bio

If Scott has access to his portion of the Anti-Life or the Alpha Effect, he absolutely demolishes here. He's legitimately more powerful than Darkseid, Black Racer or High Father in those incarnations.

Regular Scott should also win, but in a decent fight.

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#26 Posted by WollfMyth209 (17311 posts) - - Show Bio

If bullet time is his speed Kakashi has him beat by large margin in speed.

Scott's speed is actually far better than that. He's outpaced Orion, who has lightspeed feats; he has moved faster than MMH and the JLA's defense systems could track; he's dodged and deflected blasts from Lightray(who can move FTL), and a bunch of other crazy feats.

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#27 Edited by pansito (1284 posts) - - Show Bio

so mister miracle is not a glorified street leveler?

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#28 Posted by DiarrheaRegatta (6978 posts) - - Show Bio

@diarrhearegatta said:

@ouroborik: Or they just don't know about the capabilities of one or both of the characters. It happens a lot, lol.

Then why are they talking about stomps?

In fact, what is going on in this thread so that one of the Vine's most popular franchises is getting no attention whatsoever while a character who barely gets any representation is getting wanked? When I made the thread I actually thought I would be the one repping Miracle against the opposition. I hoped to at least spark the Naruto fans attention for some good debate. But even with Naruto involved I can't get any bumps on the thread from real debaters. Jashro tried but no one is arguing back.

Damn, I'm so sick and tired of the MCU occupying the front page. I'm glad that people like you are still actively trying to rep the comics though, if only those were the majority.

Sorry for the rant.

Nah it's fine man, I'm not much of a fan of all of the LA threads either (even if I do debate in them now and then)

In terms of the wank for someone like Miracle: It's CV, a place where random characters get massive cults around them and other characters get nothing, it's never predictable, lol

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#29 Posted by omnipaper6 (572 posts) - - Show Bio

@omnipaper6 said:

miracle one-shots mismatch against kakashi (since no equalized stats)

Lol based on what feats? Please show me.

not feats leagues, kakashi is mountain level at best, mister miracle is galaxy level, not comparable

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#30 Posted by Ouroborik (4111 posts) - - Show Bio

@ouroborik said:
@omnipaper6 said:

miracle one-shots mismatch against kakashi (since no equalized stats)

Lol based on what feats? Please show me.

not feats leagues, kakashi is mountain level at best, mister miracle is galaxy level, not comparable

Are you a troll or are you seriously that misinformed? Galaxy level? Lol

I'd love to see some scans of those galaxy-level feats.

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#31 Edited by omnipaper6 (572 posts) - - Show Bio

@ouroborik said:
@omnipaper6 said:
@ouroborik said:
@omnipaper6 said:

miracle one-shots mismatch against kakashi (since no equalized stats)

Lol based on what feats? Please show me.

not feats leagues, kakashi is mountain level at best, mister miracle is galaxy level, not comparable

Are you a troll or are you seriously that misinformed? Galaxy level? Lol

I'd love to see some scans of those galaxy-level feats.

please stop the nonsense:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mister_Miracle

this (

  • Indomitable Will) alone is galaxy-level
  • not misinformed either, please check the scaling
  • https://www.superherodb.com/mister-miracle/10-743/
  • strength 200,000
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#32 Posted by Ouroborik (4111 posts) - - Show Bio
@ouroborik said:
@omnipaper6 said:
@ouroborik said:
@omnipaper6 said:

miracle one-shots mismatch against kakashi (since no equalized stats)

Lol based on what feats? Please show me.

not feats leagues, kakashi is mountain level at best, mister miracle is galaxy level, not comparable

Are you a troll or are you seriously that misinformed? Galaxy level? Lol

I'd love to see some scans of those galaxy-level feats.

please stop the nonsense:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mister_Miracle

this (

  • Indomitable Will) alone is galaxy-level
  • not misinformed either, please check the scaling
  • https://www.superherodb.com/mister-miracle/10-743/
  • strength 200,000

Okay, you're a troll.

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#33 Posted by Ouroborik (4111 posts) - - Show Bio

If Scott has access to his portion of the Anti-Life or the Alpha Effect, he absolutely demolishes here. He's legitimately more powerful than Darkseid, Black Racer or High Father in those incarnations.

Regular Scott should also win, but in a decent fight.

Scott would never use the Anti-Life Equation in-character and I specified in-character in the OP for that exact reason :P

The only time we ever saw Scott use the Equation in the present day was during DotNG, which was written by a guy who seems to hate the New Gods and do everything in his power to make them look bad.

I am indeed allowing the Alpha Effect though. The energy manipulation powers seem pretty well-balanced against all of Kakashi's ninja techniques, especially since Kakashi seems to be a much better fighter overall.

What makes you think Scott would win without the Alpha Effect? I have a great deal of respect for your New Gods knowledge so I would love to hear a more detailed opinion.

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#34 Posted by WollfMyth209 (17311 posts) - - Show Bio

@ouroborik: I think it's primarily Scott's speed and gadgetry that would give him the edge if he were to fight Kakashi without the Alpha Effect.

I am indeed allowing the Alpha Effect though. The energy manipulation powers seem pretty well-balanced against all of Kakashi's ninja techniques, especially since Kakashi seems to be a much better fighter overall.

I actually wanna know why you'd think that. Scott's own skill has been stated as rivalling that of some of Earth's top fighters(like Black Canary), and he was among the best in Granny's orphanage. He's usually just a pacifist which is why his fighting skill is rarely seen, so I doubt Kakashi is a much better fighter(perhaps just more willing).

And Scott has feats of using the Alpha Effect on a much grander scale than anything Kakashi has done(stomping Steppenwolf even while holding back, stomping Lightray while holding back even more, overpowering the Black Racer, etc.) so I don't think it'd be that balanced a fight, tbh.

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#35 Posted by Ouroborik (4111 posts) - - Show Bio

@ouroborik: I think it's primarily Scott's speed and gadgetry that would give him the edge if he were to fight Kakashi without the Alpha Effect.

I am indeed allowing the Alpha Effect though. The energy manipulation powers seem pretty well-balanced against all of Kakashi's ninja techniques, especially since Kakashi seems to be a much better fighter overall.

I actually wanna know why you'd think that. Scott's own skill has been stated as rivalling that of some of Earth's top fighters(like Black Canary), and he was among the best in Granny's orphanage. He's usually just a pacifist which is why his fighting skill is rarely seen, so I doubt Kakashi is a much better fighter(perhaps just more willing).

And Scott has feats of using the Alpha Effect on a much grander scale than anything Kakashi has done(stomping Steppenwolf even while holding back, stomping Lightray while holding back even more, overpowering the Black Racer, etc.) so I don't think it'd be that balanced a fight, tbh.

The thing is, I have never actually seen Scott defeat any legitimate top-tier character in battle without using the Alpha Effect. Most of his arsenal is directed towards escape and utility, not combat. If you could direct me to any issue featuring Scott where he actually engages someone else in a fight, I would much appreciate it.

I've only seen him fight Parademons and humans in most of what I read of him. He had that issue where he mowed through New Genesis military in Tom King's run, but that was set in a fictional world or in Anti-Life, we can't apply those feats to regular Scott.

As for the Alpha Effect feats. I do agree that defeating the Black Racer is in a whole other tier compared to Kakashi. But after Scott returned to his normal costume and demeanor he wasn't exactly spamming the Alpha Effect every time he faced a problem. So I think a superspeed ninja like Kakashi could probably break through his defenses. But that's just me.

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#36 Posted by WollfMyth209 (17311 posts) - - Show Bio

@ouroborik: The thing is, I have never actually seen Scott defeat any legitimate top-tier character in battle without using the Alpha Effect. Most of his arsenal is directed towards escape and utility, not combat. If you could direct me to any issue featuring Scott where he actually engages someone else in a fight, I would much appreciate it.

Again, I think this is because Mister Miracle is primarily a pacifist. He doesn't like to fight so he doesn't use his gadgets to brutalize his opponents. But he could if he wanted to, though. He has vibration chips that shatter objects on a molecular level(he's used those to break sphere that could contain even other New Gods), has magnetic repulsors, his gloves are enhanced with heat-blast and energy projectors, can generate electrical/magnetic fields that deflect attacks, and then of course there's the Mother Box and Multi-Cube which offer a great of haxx themselves.

And he still has some good combat feats, even against named characters. I think one of the best examples of his tactical ingenuity and skill is when Scott defeated mind-controlled Obsidian, Fire and Wonder Woman in Mister Miracle Vol 3 #2.

I've only seen him fight Parademons and humans in most of what I read of him.

Well yeah, because he's usually a pacifist and so he keeps to the sidelines.

He had that issue where he mowed through New Genesis military in Tom King's run, but that was set in a fictional world or in Anti-Life, we can't apply those feats to regular Scott.

Technically, we're not sure if it was fictional or in the Anti-Life. It's pretty open for interpretation.

As for the Alpha Effect feats. I do agree that defeating the Black Racer is in a whole other tier compared to Kakashi. But after Scott returned to his normal costume and demeanor he wasn't exactly spamming the Alpha Effect every time he faced a problem.

Yeah, he doesn't spam it, but it doesn't change the fact that if he's pressed he'd use it and it'd be something Kakashi just isn't ready to deal with.

So I think a superspeed ninja like Kakashi could probably break through his defenses. But that's just me.

I don't think so; especially not since Scott holds the speed advantage anyways.